Child In Need Of Services (CHINS)

[Denisemomof4]

has anyone had to place one of these on their child or does anyone have knowledge of these? I doubt it but it's worth a try.

[simka2]

Yes, it was a pre-cursor program. You can pm me if you like.

[Chris in VA]

We almost filed a CHINS petition, but didn't need to b/c of court involvement.

Continuing in prayer for you. :grouphug:

[Denisemomof4]

We almost filed a CHINS petition, but didn't need to b/c of court involvement.

Continuing in prayer for you. :grouphug:

 

would you mind pming me with the details of court involvement? I don't know if we're going to have that but I think it's likely.

[Denisemomof4]

Yes, it was a pre-cursor program. You can pm me if you like.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by a pre-cursor program but I'm going to PM you now. Thanks!

[Chris in VA]

Well, I don't mind not pming--

Basically, ds was in counseling for cutting and other mental illness stuff, and then ran away. Unknown to us at the time, he had started drinking and experimenting with drugs. He came home after 3 days, then started more counseling. We had him evaluated for some stuff, and they said residential treatment would be beneficial. We didn't believe them. A month or so later, he threatened to run again, trying to break thru a window and threatening to push me down the stairs. Dh tackled and restrained him, but ds broke out and punched dh repeatedly in the head. I called the police (not knowing about the punching) and they charged him with assault on a family member as a juvenile.

 

That started 5 more years of hell.

 

So, we didn't CHINS because we were already getting caught up in residential treatment, probation, etc.

[StephanieZ]

((hugs))

[Denisemomof4]

Well, I don't mind not pming--

Basically, ds was in counseling for cutting and other mental illness stuff, and then ran away. Unknown to us at the time, he had started drinking and experimenting with drugs. He came home after 3 days, then started more counseling. We had him evaluated for some stuff, and they said residential treatment would be beneficial. We didn't believe them. A month or so later, he threatened to run again, trying to break thru a window and threatening to push me down the stairs. Dh tackled and restrained him, but ds broke out and punched dh repeatedly in the head. I called the police (not knowing about the punching) and they charged him with assault on a family member as a juvenile.

 

That started 5 more years of hell.

 

So, we didn't CHINS because we were already getting caught up in residential treatment, probation, etc.

 

did your health insurance pay for the residential treatment?

 

Our lawyer is suggesting we smack a CHINS on him and I'm afraid of the ramifications of that. In the end it may be court ordered anyway. The lawyer couldn't give us costs but it would be steep. We have so much going on right now that it could financially break us and make us lose our home. It WOULD be good since he has gotten to a level of complete defiance, something he's never been before. He would be FORCED to cooperate in the home.

 

We have so much mental illness in my family and I prayed against it for my own kids since they were born. I honestly do not feel like I'm strong enough to deal with this and sometimes I just wish I could not wake up in the morning. Then I think of my dh and girls who need me desperately and I somehow muster enough strength to carry on. And then there's my oldest son who is such a wonderful person. I can be thankful for them.

 

I am going to have him evaluated at a big hospital and am certain we're going to have a diagnosis of some sort.

 

He has steadily gone downhill since his double concussion and from all I've read, concussions can bring out mental illness in people who are sensitive to them. I think this is what's happened.

[Starr]

:grouphug: Praying for all of you.

[hooahwife]

He has steadily gone downhill since his double concussion and from all I've read, concussions can bring out mental illness in people who are sensitive to them. I think this is what's happened.

 

I don't know about TBI causing mental illness, but severe TBI can certainly do a number on mood and aggression, as well as speech and cognitive ability, among other things. TBI can be severe and debilitating. Contact the Brain Injury Association for resources for yourself. It is very difficult and lonely being the caretaker to someone with TBI. I can't offer advice about a CHINS petition but I do have experience with TBI.

[prairiewindmomma]

---

Edited November 10, 2021 by prairiewindmomma

[Chris in VA]

Denise, we were the first in our state to receive certain funds that had been released, so we went thru the gov't to pay. We picked 4 programs, and only one of them was private pay (the one he lasted 4 days at, before he ran and got tossed into Arkansas juvie--what a pit). Our diocese paid for that one, except for the plane rides out there. See what your state mental health or child services would do, as far as helping. Most state or county facilities are sliding scale.

[Denisemomof4]

He has steadily gone downhill since his double concussion and from all I've read, concussions can bring out mental illness in people who are sensitive to them. I think this is what's happened.

 

I don't know about TBI causing mental illness, but severe TBI can certainly do a number on mood and aggression, as well as speech and cognitive ability, among other things. TBI can be severe and debilitating. Contact the Brain Injury Association for resources for yourself. It is very difficult and lonely being the caretaker to someone with TBI. I can't offer advice about a CHINS petition but I do have experience with TBI.

 

I have suffered a life altering TBI myself and have spent hundreds of hours researching head injuries. I have read on reputable sites that mental illness CAN be brought one from a head injury, only for those prone/sensitive to them. Where we have three diagnosed mental illnesses in my siblings and aunt, he's certainly got a genetic tendency.

[Denisemomof4]

Child In Need of Care (CINC, in our state) petitions are handled different from state to state. When I worked as an attorney, I handled some of these.

 

I also have some experience in dealing with TBIs. My daughter's brain tumor was classified as a TBI for insurance purposes in order to be able to access physical therapy and occupational therapy.

 

Do what you need to be able to do for your child and for your family. I would go for an evaluation and diagnosis. Through that process you'll likely have access to a social worker who can really explain your options. Most older kids here who are declared CINC are sent to group homes if they are 15+ and the parents are assessed monthly fees for their care. It's not necessarily the best route. If you need to go that way, most cities provide Legal Aid or other sorts of sliding scale attorney fee programs for lower income/struggling families.

 

dh makes a good salary so we will probably go broke over this. We likely won't qualify for financial aide in any way.

 

In our state I don't think he's going to be qualified for residential treatment anytime soon. If his behavior continues, maybe, but not right now.

[Denisemomof4]

Denise, we were the first in our state to receive certain funds that had been released, so we went thru the gov't to pay. We picked 4 programs, and only one of them was private pay (the one he lasted 4 days at, before he ran and got tossed into Arkansas juvie--what a pit). Our diocese paid for that one, except for the plane rides out there. See what your state mental health or child services would do, as far as helping. Most state or county facilities are sliding scale.

 

sliding scales will hurt us because dh makes a good wage. They won't account my "self funded rescue" or our huge expenses due to that.

 

I know the state of NH is one of the worst places to live if you have a mental illness. There's not a lot of help or resources. I know this from all I tried to do to help my brother. It's awful.

 

I even sent my sister to BOSTON with no luck.

 

Heck, we can't even get a therapist for my adopted daughter who has an attachment disorder. Thankfully she's improved by leaps and bounds. I hope our current situation doesn't cause her to regress.

 

I am getting my son in to a big hospital and if we can get help, I think this is the place we'll get it.

[Chris in VA]

dh makes a good salary so we will probably go broke over this. We likely won't qualify for financial aide in any way.

 

In our state I don't think he's going to be qualified for residential treatment anytime soon. If his behavior continues, maybe, but not right now.

 

I thought we'd have to pay more, too-- so you may be surprised. They are not like colleges--they really do take into account your other debt and house payments and stuff like that. And you'd be surprised what qualifies for resi--but you may not want to do that as it's terribly disruptive to the family, and the newest thinking is to get the family back together in the home asap (which can still take a while).

 

Just don't do a Keystone program for residential if you can help it--they're lousy. And if you do a residential, try to make it so you can do ongoing family counseling while he's in, with him.

[Denisemomof4]

I thought we'd have to pay more, too-- so you may be surprised. They are not like colleges--they really do take into account your other debt and house payments and stuff like that. And you'd be surprised what qualifies for resi--but you may not want to do that as it's terribly disruptive to the family, and the newest thinking is to get the family back together in the home asap (which can still take a while).

 

Just don't do a Keystone program for residential if you can help it--they're lousy. And if you do a residential, try to make it so you can do ongoing family counseling while he's in, with him.

 

why is residential treatment disruptive to the family? One would think it would be more peaceful and calm to have the problem child removed.

 

I hope I'll remember the Keystone thing ! It may never come to residential treatment anyway.

[NCMom]

 

He has steadily gone downhill since his double concussion and from all I've read, concussions can bring out mental illness in people who are sensitive to them. I think this is what's happened.

 

What about Crotched Mountain for evaluating the possibility of TBI? When we lived in NH we had friends who worked there (and we were there often, for other reasons) and it seemed like a solid place. I know they used to deal with TBI patients, although usually on a much more dramatic level. I know they had outpatient treatment too.

 

We had friends who had kids evaluated for a variety of conditions and quite a few got some amazing help there.

 

:grouphug:

Georgia

[Denisemomof4]

What about Crotched Mountain for evaluating the possibility of TBI? When we lived in NH we had friends who worked there (and we were there often, for other reasons) and it seemed like a solid place. I know they used to deal with TBI patients, although usually on a much more dramatic level. I know they had outpatient treatment too.

 

We had friends who had kids evaluated for a variety of conditions and quite a few got some amazing help there.

 

:grouphug:

Georgia

 

I didn't even think of that. I don't know if anyone will recognize his issue as TBI. Nobody recognized MINE as TBI even though I couldn't read for 10 months and have never been the same since.

 

I'm taking him to Dartmouth for now but may consider that in the future. It's at least worth looking into.

 

Thanks!

[MariannNOVA]

Denise: :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: You are in my thoughts and prayers.

[i.love.lucy]

Denise: :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: You are in my thoughts and prayers.

Me too. :grouphug::grouphug:

[QueenCat]

No advice, just lots of :grouphug:s.

[LittleIzumi]

:grouphug::grouphug:

[Dolphin]

:grouphug:

[MamaT]

:grouphug: Denise, I don't have any advice. I just want you to know I'm praying for you and your family.

[TammyinTN]

Your family is in my prayers. :grouphug:

[Jennifer in MI]

Oh Denise. It breaks my heart to know you are going through such a rough time. :grouphug: I'll keep praying for your family.

[Chris in VA]

why is residential treatment disruptive to the family? One would think it would be more peaceful and calm to have the problem child removed.

 

I hope I'll remember the Keystone thing ! It may never come to residential treatment anyway.

 

Well, there is certainly an element of "whew!" when they are gone; conflict is gone, things ARE quieter, less drama, etc. But you have to be very careful to undergo the necessary therapy, for a few reasons. (Keep in mind this is me talking, not a therapist.)

One, you are not sending him away to get fixed so he can come back all better. You are sending him away where he can take the time to work on his stuff, BUT YOU (the rest of the family) HAVE STUFF, TOO. He does not get to be the problem all by himself. In our case, I thought we were doing pretty ok as parents and kids, and that Peter was the problem--drugs, etc. had changed him. Well, drugs and mental illness don't take place in a vacuum, and they change EVERYBODY. There are dynamics that happen that need to be addressed, root causes, what have you.

Resi simply won't work very well if the person comes back to the same environment--not just the Outside Peer environment, the Home, too.

 

Two, when you take a disruptive person out of the family, or they get better, sometimes someone else's issues will pop up--family systems therapy 101. We get used to the drama, and there's a void. Not just drama, but roles we've played and ways of coping. No longer having the same role (what does a peacemaker do when there is peace? for example) can be extremely uncomfortable--it can really mess with one's identity. Of course, that's part of the healing one has to do while the person is away.

 

Three, it can be so peaceful that you might think "they" were the problem. Then they come back, all healthy and wonderful, and you see you do have stuff to work on--

 

And, kids in particular (sibs) can feel lots and lots of ugly but natural feelings--they need to sort them out. Blaming, anger, hurt, not wanting the person to return and then feeling guilty, self-righteousness, fear at that person going away again, etc. Resi can interfere with the family bonding, both for the person sent away, and for the people left behind.

 

Most of this stuff can be prevented or dealt with IF the person and the family can undergo therapy as a unit, frequently. Reintegration with theraputic support is crucial.

 

2 cents.

[MariannNOVA]

Well, there is certainly an element of "whew!" when they are gone; conflict is gone, things ARE quieter, less drama, etc. But you have to be very careful to undergo the necessary therapy, for a few reasons. (Keep in mind this is me talking, not a therapist.)

One, you are not sending him away to get fixed so he can come back all better. You are sending him away where he can take the time to work on his stuff, BUT YOU (the rest of the family) HAVE STUFF, TOO. He does not get to be the problem all by himself. In our case, I thought we were doing pretty ok as parents and kids, and that Peter was the problem--drugs, etc. had changed him. Well, drugs and mental illness don't take place in a vacuum, and they change EVERYBODY. There are dynamics that happen that need to be addressed, root causes, what have you.

Resi simply won't work very well if the person comes back to the same environment--not just the Outside Peer environment, the Home, too.

 

Two, when you take a disruptive person out of the family, or they get better, sometimes someone else's issues will pop up--family systems therapy 101. We get used to the drama, and there's a void. Not just drama, but roles we've played and ways of coping. No longer having the same role (what does a peacemaker do when there is peace? for example) can be extremely uncomfortable--it can really mess with one's identity. Of course, that's part of the healing one has to do while the person is away.

 

Three, it can be so peaceful that you might think "they" were the problem. Then they come back, all healthy and wonderful, and you see you do have stuff to work on--

 

And, kids in particular (sibs) can feel lots and lots of ugly but natural feelings--they need to sort them out. Blaming, anger, hurt, not wanting the person to return and then feeling guilty, self-righteousness, fear at that person going away again, etc. Resi can interfere with the family bonding, both for the person sent away, and for the people left behind.

 

Most of this stuff can be prevented or dealt with IF the person and the family can undergo therapy as a unit, frequently. Reintegration with theraputic support is crucial.

 

2 cents.

 

Well put. Your post reminded me of stuff from LONG LONG ago. When I first made ex-h move out of our home (the girls were in 8th and 9th grade), I anticipated a certain level of harmony and peace. However, what you wrote is absolutely true. The therapist we were seeing at the time told us that in a home, when the 'abusive' (in our case) individual leaves, there is usually someone in the family who 'takes over' that individual's place -- in our situation, one of the girls took on the role of the verbally abusive individual. If I hadn't seen it with my own eyes, I never would have believed it. The therapist explained it by telling me that the 'norm' in our home was having someone who was abusive and when that person exited, dd took it upon herself to make sure the 'norm' was preserved.

 

Excellent point Chris!

[lauranc]

Well, there is certainly an element of "whew!" when they are gone; conflict is gone, things ARE quieter, less drama, etc. But you have to be very careful to undergo the necessary therapy, for a few reasons. (Keep in mind this is me talking, not a therapist.)

One, you are not sending him away to get fixed so he can come back all better. You are sending him away where he can take the time to work on his stuff, BUT YOU (the rest of the family) HAVE STUFF, TOO. He does not get to be the problem all by himself. In our case, I thought we were doing pretty ok as parents and kids, and that Peter was the problem--drugs, etc. had changed him. Well, drugs and mental illness don't take place in a vacuum, and they change EVERYBODY. There are dynamics that happen that need to be addressed, root causes, what have you.

Resi simply won't work very well if the person comes back to the same environment--not just the Outside Peer environment, the Home, too.

 

Two, when you take a disruptive person out of the family, or they get better, sometimes someone else's issues will pop up--family systems therapy 101. We get used to the drama, and there's a void. Not just drama, but roles we've played and ways of coping. No longer having the same role (what does a peacemaker do when there is peace? for example) can be extremely uncomfortable--it can really mess with one's identity. Of course, that's part of the healing one has to do while the person is away.

 

Three, it can be so peaceful that you might think "they" were the problem. Then they come back, all healthy and wonderful, and you see you do have stuff to work on--

 

And, kids in particular (sibs) can feel lots and lots of ugly but natural feelings--they need to sort them out. Blaming, anger, hurt, not wanting the person to return and then feeling guilty, self-righteousness, fear at that person going away again, etc. Resi can interfere with the family bonding, both for the person sent away, and for the people left behind.

 

Most of this stuff can be prevented or dealt with IF the person and the family can undergo therapy as a unit, frequently. Reintegration with theraputic support is crucial.

 

2 cents.

 

:iagree: It is rarely just one person who is the 'problem'. I have had some experience with residential treatment (studied outcomes etc... it was what I focused on for my undergraduate degree--- so not a professional, just had an interest) It seems to me the major problem with residential treatment was that the family expected peace in the house as soon as the 'problem child' was removed only to find that they were also part of the problem.

 

If the family was unwilling to work on issues together (or didn't for whatever reason), the 'problem child' never really got the help he/she needed, and would end up back in trouble.

[simka2]

Well, there is certainly an element of "whew!" when they are gone; conflict is gone, things ARE quieter, less drama, etc. But you have to be very careful to undergo the necessary therapy, for a few reasons. (Keep in mind this is me talking, not a therapist.)

One, you are not sending him away to get fixed so he can come back all better. You are sending him away where he can take the time to work on his stuff, BUT YOU (the rest of the family) HAVE STUFF, TOO. He does not get to be the problem all by himself. In our case, I thought we were doing pretty ok as parents and kids, and that Peter was the problem--drugs, etc. had changed him. Well, drugs and mental illness don't take place in a vacuum, and they change EVERYBODY. There are dynamics that happen that need to be addressed, root causes, what have you.

Resi simply won't work very well if the person comes back to the same environment--not just the Outside Peer environment, the Home, too.

 

Two, when you take a disruptive person out of the family, or they get better, sometimes someone else's issues will pop up--family systems therapy 101. We get used to the drama, and there's a void. Not just drama, but roles we've played and ways of coping. No longer having the same role (what does a peacemaker do when there is peace? for example) can be extremely uncomfortable--it can really mess with one's identity. Of course, that's part of the healing one has to do while the person is away.

 

Three, it can be so peaceful that you might think "they" were the problem. Then they come back, all healthy and wonderful, and you see you do have stuff to work on--

 

And, kids in particular (sibs) can feel lots and lots of ugly but natural feelings--they need to sort them out. Blaming, anger, hurt, not wanting the person to return and then feeling guilty, self-righteousness, fear at that person going away again, etc. Resi can interfere with the family bonding, both for the person sent away, and for the people left behind.

 

Most of this stuff can be prevented or dealt with IF the person and the family can undergo therapy as a unit, frequently. Reintegration with theraputic support is crucial.

 

2 cents.

 

Chris this was wonderful!!! I think you did an amazing job of explaining that this is a "whole" family issue. Not in a shaming way, but in a "dynamics and learned behavior" way.