mommaduck Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Let me reiterate. I did not say the groups lacked compassion. I said some of the responses here lacked compassion. EVERYONE acknowledges that these groups have every right to exist and to do whatever they want. People don't have to like it. I was saying please try and understand why some people don't like it, here are a few of the legitimate reasons people don't like it. How pansy is it for everyone to have to like everything you do? Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnTheBrink Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I want to understand from the above: is inclusion the only acceptable form of compassion? If not, then on order to be compassionate to every possible member or reader of a group's charter, does it have to say, "We realize some people will feel excluded from our group. We are sorry for this feeling of malignment."? I really don't think any organization, which is afterall only composed of people (and their rights to free speech and assembly), needs to apologize for its existence. What a pansy nation we would be if everything has to begin with "I'm sorry this may offend anyone out there, but ..." :iagree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simka2 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I asked dh yesterday what he thought of SOF's. His first response was to ask me a question. "Well Honey, are we told to be like Jesus? To model our lives after His?" Me: "I'm pretty sure that's what everyone's bible says ;)" Dh: "If that's the case, I can't find any evidence that Jesus required a SOF of his disciples." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoPlaceLikeHome Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I asked dh yesterday what he thought of SOF's. His first response was to ask me a question. "Well Honey, are we told to be like Jesus? To model our lives after His?" Me: "I'm pretty sure that's what everyone's bible says ;)" Dh: "If that's the case, I can't find any evidence that Jesus required a SOF of his disciples." Amen:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I asked dh yesterday what he thought of SOF's. His first response was to ask me a question. "Well Honey, are we told to be like Jesus? To model our lives after His?" Me: "I'm pretty sure that's what everyone's bible says ;)" Dh: "If that's the case, I can't find any evidence that Jesus required a SOF of his disciples." :confused:I think he did... it is called baptism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simka2 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 :confused:I think he did... it is called baptism. :confused:Huh? I was expecting someone to disagree, but I can't figure out where that came from. Judas was baptized? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 (edited) I asked dh yesterday what he thought of SOF's. His first response was to ask me a question. "Well Honey, are we told to be like Jesus? To model our lives after His?" Me: "I'm pretty sure that's what everyone's bible says ;)" Dh: "If that's the case, I can't find any evidence that Jesus required a SOF of his disciples." I think he did John 13:34-35 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another. Edited February 14, 2011 by Sis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I asked dh yesterday what he thought of SOF's. His first response was to ask me a question. "Well Honey, are we told to be like Jesus? To model our lives after His?" Me: "I'm pretty sure that's what everyone's bible says ;)" Dh: "If that's the case, I can't find any evidence that Jesus required a SOF of his disciples." "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel"--it's not a SOF, but it is a statement of purpose. There were exceptions, and they are notable, there was also a clear focus in audience. Look, I don't think that either argument really applies to this particular situation, but this quote does contradict your husband's point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 :confused:Huh? I was expecting someone to disagree, but I can't figure out where that came from. Judas was baptized? I don't have direct evidence of each and every disciple being baptised... but Jesus commanded us to baptize people. In addition, he required his disciples to leave everything and follow him... talk about a SOF! (Luke 18:18-30) I don't like most SOF in homeschool groups either, as they exclude me... but Jesus does have requirements and I emphatically disagree when people imply that he does not. (I am trying to find a way to say this without sounding snarky... I am really not saying this with a sarcastic voice in my head, please understand) That young rich ruler was excluded. Poor guy... so unfair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simka2 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I think he did, he told them to give up their families and follow him. That wasn't completely universal, but I get your point ;). I did find out that all Jewish men recieved a baptism in the temple. So, you could make the point that her required them to be jewish. That said, Judas definetly had issues, and John had some good insights, but Jesus didn't make them the confess that before they were considered his disciples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 (edited) One question: Are there other places in the American Christian world where these 'statements of faith' are similarly divisive, or is this largely a homeschooling phenomenon? Obviously, I know that there are all different kinds of Christian denominations, but are there other interdenominational arenas in which this kind of thing comes up? I've been all over the country, met many many people and never come across SOFs anywhere other than homeschooling groups. I sent my dd to Baptist summer camp (it was close and her bf's mom was a counselor) without problem. They were very respectful, there were no problems at all. Never in my first 40 years did I come across anything like an SOF in any organization I belonged to or thought about belonging to. Then we moved to a small cliquish town. That was my first exposure to being thought of as "lesser" because of my religion - even after spending 20 years of my life in the Bible belt. There are differences in denominations. Some of them huge, but never have I heard of anyone walking into any Christian church and having to sign an SOF to stay. Edited February 14, 2011 by Parrothead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simka2 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel"--it's not a SOF, but it is a statement of purpose. There were exceptions, and they are notable, there was also a clear focus in audience. Look, I don't think that either argument really applies to this particular situation, but this quote does contradict your husband's point. I will have to politely disagree with both statements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 but never have I heard of anyone walking into any Christian church and having to sign an SOF to stay.:iagree:True Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simka2 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I don't have direct evidence of each and every disciple being baptised... but Jesus commanded us to baptize people. In addition, he required his disciples to leave everything and follow him... talk about a SOF! (Luke 18:18-30) I don't like most SOF in homeschool groups either, as they exclude me... but Jesus does have requirements and I emphatically disagree when people imply that he does not. (I am trying to find a way to say this without sounding snarky... I am really not saying this with a sarcastic voice in my head, please understand) That young rich ruler was excluded. Poor guy... so unfair. My point is not that He does not have requirments. My point is that He was very patient and allowed for process. He gave people room to develop their faith, while still calling them "disciples." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I think he did John 13:34-35 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another. As far as I can tell there is only ONE real requirement. For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 My point is not that He does not have requirments. My point is that He was very patient and allowed for process. He gave people room to develop their faith, while still calling them "disciples." I can wholeheartedly agree with that, and I do see a lot of people who seem not to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 As far as I can tell there is only ONE real requirement. For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. I am confused. Your song seems to contradict the rest of your post. Jesus shared many things with us, including requirements and exclusions. Matthew chapter 7. In addition, everything in the Bible is Jesus speaking to us, not just the scriptures where he was on earth as a man and quoted. Not arguing with you, really. Just some points that I often feel compelled to share. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simka2 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I asked dh yesterday what he thought of SOF's. His first response was to ask me a question. "Well Honey, are we told to be like Jesus? To model our lives after His?" Me: "I'm pretty sure that's what everyone's bible says ;)" Dh: "If that's the case, I can't find any evidence that Jesus required a SOF of his disciples." I think there is some misunderstanding about what I meant. My point was AT THE TIME the disciples were called to follow Jesus, they were not required to have a specific belife in Him as the Messiah. Since SOF's are about specifics...from the beginning of being allowed into a group, I think it is applicable. If He is our example, than I do see a bit of a problem with SOF that exclude...from the gate. That's all! You can bring up all kinds of verses from later in His ministry, and thats still not the point. I bow out now and you you can go back to your regualr discussion ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I am confused. Your song seems to contradict the rest of your post. Jesus shared many things with us, including requirements and exclusions. Matthew chapter 7. In addition, everything in the Bible is Jesus speaking to us, not just the scriptures where he was on earth as a man and quoted. Not arguing with you, really. Just some points that I often feel compelled to share. There are requirements and then there are requirements. There is only one requirement to being a Christian. HOWEVER, once you are a Christian there are other expectations of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simka2 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I can wholeheartedly agree with that, and I do see a lot of people who seem not to. Gotcha! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet Crown Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I've been all over the country, met many many people and never come across SOFs anywhere other than homeschooling groups. I sent my dd to Baptist summer camp (it was close and her bf's mom was a counselor) without problem. They were very respectful, there were no problems at all. Never in my first 40 years did I come across anything like an SOF in any organization I belonged to or thought about belonging to. Then we moved to a small cliquish town. That was my first exposure to being thought of as "lesser" because of my religion - even after spending 20 years of my life in the Bible belt. Catechists and others in teaching positions (RCIA leaders, etc.) in my diocese are required to sign a form asserting full Catholic initiation (baptism, confirmation) and being in good standing in the Church (practicing Catholic, not in an irregular marriage/living situation, etc.), as well as affirmation of all Catholic doctrine, in order to teach the faith. You'd think if there were any situation where a SOF would be noncontroversial, it would be that one; but you'd be quite surprised (or maybe not...) how many people thought this was just outrageous, and many of the same comments were made that I've seen on this thread: Jesus didn't have these sorts of requirements, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Catechists and others in teaching positions (RCIA leaders, etc.) in my diocese are required to sign a form asserting full Catholic initiation (baptism, confirmation) and being in good standing in the Church (practicing Catholic, not in an irregular marriage/living situation, etc.), as well as affirmation of all Catholic doctrine, in order to teach the faith. You'd think if there were any situation where a SOF would be noncontroversial, it would be that one; but you'd be quite surprised (or maybe not...) how many people thought this was just outrageous, and many of the same comments were made that I've seen on this thread: Jesus didn't have these sorts of requirements, etc. Again, I taught Bible classes in the church where I could not teach in the homeschool group because the homeschool group's doctrine was different. So, it's not the same issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I've been all over the country, met many many people and never come across SOFs anywhere other than homeschooling groups. I sent my dd to Baptist summer camp (it was close and her bf's mom was a counselor) without problem. They were very respectful, there were no problems at all. Never in my first 40 years did I come across anything like an SOF in any organization I belonged to or thought about belonging to. Then we moved to a small cliquish town. That was my first exposure to being thought of as "lesser" because of my religion - even after spending 20 years of my life in the Bible belt. There are differences in denominations. Some of them huge, but never have I heard of anyone walking into any Christian church and having to sign an SOF to stay. Actually there are some religiously based colleges/universities that require a SOF for students and also for employees. As a freshly degreed graduate I first ran into this when I answered a job ad for Regent University. As an employee I would have had to sign a SOF as well as a Code of Conduct that limited my actions both at work and at home. Not fitting their definition of Christian meant that I couldn't finish the job application. Not being from Virginia I had no idea what I had begun when I answered that ad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet Crown Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Again, I taught Bible classes in the church where I could not teach in the homeschool group because the homeschool group's doctrine was different. So, it's not the same issue.But my point was, no matter how reasonable the circumstances of a SOF, it's going to offend someone who thought he ought to be included but was excluded. So while it's laudable for an organization to examine its motivations for a SOF, and see if they really stand up, the fact that some find it offensive/exclusionary is not in itself a good enough reason for ditching one, if the organization has strong reasons integral to the mission of that organization. As always, just my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 But my point was, no matter how reasonable the circumstances of a SOF, it's going to offend someone who thought he ought to be included but was excluded. So while it's laudable for an organization to examine its motivations for a SOF, and see if they really stand up, the fact that some find it offensive/exclusionary is not in itself a good enough reason for ditching one, if the organization has strong reasons integral to the mission of that organization. As always, just my 2 cents. I don't disagree with that at all. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Let me reiterate. I did not say the groups lacked compassion. I said some of the responses here lacked compassion. EVERYONE acknowledges that these groups have every right to exist and to do whatever they want. BUT, people don't have to like it. I was saying please try and understand why some people don't like it, here are a few of the legitimate reasons people don't like it. How pansy is it for everyone to have to like everything you do? I disagree-there have been many posts to the contrary and many uncharitable comments about groups that have an SOF. Many recommendations on how to subvert signing an SOF. Many arguments about why having this type of group is unkind, un-Christian, limiting a child's exposure, preventing kids from being "socialized", mocking the beliefs of those who would start or join such a group, etc. Of course people don't have to like it-I frequently don't like it-but to say that the right of these groups to exist or further that their existence is acceptable is not proven in this thread. If compassion is lacking it is lacking on both sides of the argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 (edited) I disagree-there have been many posts to the contrary and many uncharitable comments about groups that have an SOF. Many recommendations on how to subvert signing an SOF. Many arguments about why having this type of group is unkind, un-Christian, limiting a child's exposure, preventing kids from being "socialized", mocking the beliefs of those who would start or join such a group, etc. Of course people don't have to like it-I frequently don't like it-but to say that the right of these groups to exist or further that their existence is acceptable is not proven in this thread. If compassion is lacking it is lacking on both sides of the argument. I am not compassionate towards blanket exclusion. I wouldn't subvert a SOF because I wouldn't want to join an organization with a SOF. Our friends are pagan/Buddhist/Jewish/Christian and we get along fine. I am not interested in groups that have to worry about Mormons, Catholics or other denominations not being "Christian enough." I don't like that sort of thing and want no part of it. Edited February 14, 2011 by Sis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Gotcha! :D There are requirements and then there are requirements. There is only one requirement to being a Christian. HOWEVER, once you are a Christian there are other expectations of you.Nice explanation. I think we were all talking circles around each other.;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I am not compassionate towards blanket exclusion. I wouldn't subvert a SOF because I wouldn't want to join an organization with a SOF. Our friends are pagan/Buddhist/Jewish/Christian and we get along fine. I am not interested in groups that have to worry about Mormons, Catholics or other denominations not being "Christian enough." I don't like that sort of thing and want no part of it. What's interesting to me is that both "sides" are essentially saying the same thing: "I want to be around like-minded people." In one case, that means people of the same faith. In the other case, that means people who want to be around people of all faiths. But in both cases, the underlying motivation is the same -- we all prefer to be around people who share our values. It's human nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 (edited) What's interesting to me is that both "sides" are essentially saying the same thing: "I want to be around like-minded people." In one case, that means people of the same faith. In the other case, that means people who want to be around people of all faiths. But in both cases, the underlying motivation is the same -- we all prefer to be around people who share our values. It's human nature. I do prefer to be around people who are more welcoming/open minded/loving towards others. Everyone has point that they think is an important expression of their faith. To some that is the Nicene Creed or having particular rules. I am all about "love your neighbor" and "do unto others" those are the most important parts of my faith to me and that is how I try to express my faith to others. Edited February 14, 2011 by Sis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAMom Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I asked dh yesterday what he thought of SOF's. His first response was to ask me a question. "Well Honey, are we told to be like Jesus? To model our lives after His?" Me: "I'm pretty sure that's what everyone's bible says ;)" Dh: "If that's the case, I can't find any evidence that Jesus required a SOF of his disciples." Hmmm....really? You don't think that if Jesus encountered someone who had an erroneous view of Him, He would correct them? Why did He say that many would call Him Lord, Lord but He would answer that He never knew them? Why was Paul continually writing to the churches who definitely called themselves Christians but had false doctrines? Why was He writing to the Corinthians who were engaged in all manner of debauchery or to the Judiasers at Galatia who were preaching a false gospel? Sure, I doubt there was a "statement of faith" in the way we see them today but Christ and the apostles spent a lot of time condemning false views of Him and correcting errors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simka2 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 My point is not that He does not have requirments. My point is that He was very patient and allowed for process. He gave people room to develop their faith, while still calling them "disciples." I think there is some misunderstanding about what I meant. My point was AT THE TIME the disciples were called to follow Jesus, they were not required to have a specific belife in Him as the Messiah.Since SOF's are about specifics...from the beginning of being allowed into a group, I think it is applicable. If He is our example, than I do see a bit of a problem with SOF that exclude...from the gate. That's all! You can bring up all kinds of verses from later in His ministry, and thats still not the point. I bow out now and you you can go back to your regualr discussion ;) Hmmm....really? You don't think that if Jesus encountered someone who had an erroneous view of Him, He would correct them? Why did He say that many would call Him Lord, Lord but He would answer that He never knew them? Why was Paul continually writing to the churches who definitely called themselves Christians but had false doctrines? Why was He writing to the Corinthians who were engaged in all manner of debauchery or to the Judiasers at Galatia who were preaching a false gospel? Sure, I doubt there was a "statement of faith" in the way we see them today but Christ and the apostles spent a lot of time condemning false views of Him and correcting errors. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnTheBrink Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 What's interesting to me is that both "sides" are essentially saying the same thing: "I want to be around like-minded people." In one case, that means people of the same faith. In the other case, that means people who want to be around people of all faiths. But in both cases, the underlying motivation is the same -- we all prefer to be around people who share our values. It's human nature. Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 What's interesting to me is that both "sides" are essentially saying the same thing: "I want to be around like-minded people." In one case, that means people of the same faith. In the other case, that means people who want to be around people of all faiths. But in both cases, the underlying motivation is the same -- we all prefer to be around people who share our values. It's human nature. I think that is a perfect conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRAAB Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 What's interesting to me is that both "sides" are essentially saying the same thing: "I want to be around like-minded people." In one case, that means people of the same faith. In the other case, that means people who want to be around people of all faiths. But in both cases, the underlying motivation is the same -- we all prefer to be around people who share our values. It's human nature. So do you mean that for the first group 'sharing values' is determined by doctrine and theology, and for the second group 'sharing values' has a much looser definition - perhaps defined by the decision to homeschool? If so, the two groups have a different definition of the word 'values'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Catechists and others in teaching positions (RCIA leaders, etc.) in my diocese are required to sign a form asserting full Catholic initiation (baptism, confirmation) and being in good standing in the Church (practicing Catholic, not in an irregular marriage/living situation, etc.), as well as affirmation of all Catholic doctrine, in order to teach the faith. You'd think if there were any situation where a SOF would be noncontroversial, it would be that one; but you'd be quite surprised (or maybe not...) how many people thought this was just outrageous, and many of the same comments were made that I've seen on this thread: Jesus didn't have these sorts of requirements, etc. Well, I haven't made it to your diocese yet. ;) I've taught in one and been DRE in another without signing. They are all different in their requirements. I imagine the outrage is about "how dare they think I'm not a good Catholic." The same thing happened at my current parish over background checks for people working with children. "How dare they think I would hurt a child." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Actually there are some religiously based colleges/universities that require a SOF for students and also for employees. As a freshly degreed graduate I first ran into this when I answered a job ad for Regent University. As an employee I would have had to sign a SOF as well as a Code of Conduct that limited my actions both at work and at home. Not fitting their definition of Christian meant that I couldn't finish the job application. Not being from Virginia I had no idea what I had begun when I answered that ad. I suppose there are probably SOF for private Christian (or other religion) schools. I've been a lot of places and done a lot of things but not too many things where religion was the focus. It is shocking and hard to not take personally when one first comes across it. It is hard not to take personally the 10th time also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAMom Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I think there is some misunderstanding about what I meant. My point was AT THE TIME the disciples were called to follow Jesus, they were not required to have a specific belife in Him as the Messiah. At the time the disciples were called, Jesus had not yet revealed Himself as Messiah so how could they have a specific belief in Him as the Messiah? He was in the process of revealing Himself. Different ball of wax now that He has been fully revealed. One cannot simply believe whatever they want about Him and call himself a Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I suppose there are probably SOF for private Christian (or other religion) schools. I've been a lot of places and done a lot of things but not too many things where religion was the focus. It is shocking and hard to not take personally when one first comes across it. It is hard not to take personally the 10th time also. Being a new grad and in need of a job I did take some of it personally at the time. Probably the part that got me the most were the items that dictated my private behavior at home. I thought that reached a bit beyond the bounds of an employer. But, such statements are out there beyond just homeschooling groups. Which was my only point in sharing the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 What's interesting to me is that both "sides" are essentially saying the same thing: "I want to be around like-minded people." In one case, that means people of the same faith. In the other case, that means people who want to be around people of all faiths. But in both cases, the underlying motivation is the same -- we all prefer to be around people who share our values. It's human nature. While politically I'm about as conservative as they come I prefer a lot more diversity in the people I meet and mingle with. I can honestly say I don't like people with a very narrow view of the world. I find "my way or the highway" attitude to be very icky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 icky.:lol: Oh yeah, well you have cooties!:tongue_smilie: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I do prefer to be around people who are more welcoming/open minded/loving towards others. Everyone has point that they think is an important expression of their faith. To some that is the Nicene Creed or having particular rules. I am all about "love your neighbor" and "do unto others" those are the most important parts of my faith to me and that is how I try to express my faith to others. I do understand this second part of what you said. I myself am likely to be far more comfortable around someone who professes a different faith but strives for compassion and morality and who truly wants to live their faith, than someone who professes my faith and yet approaches it in a very different way, or has very different values. That said, however, I also understand that those parents who prefer faith-based homeschooling groups and other activities are doing what they feel is right and necessary for the well-being of their children. I don't think it's fair to assume that they are less loving or less compassionate than the rest of us. I think it is their profound love for their children that motivates them. And let's be honest, how many of us parents would *not* put the well-being of our own children above the convenience, desires, or even needs of others? My daughter comes first for me, even if that means inconveniencing or offending others. If I had the option of joining an Eastern Orthodox Christian homeschooling co-op, I would jump at the chance. If there were a private EOC school in the area, I would even give serious thought to sending my daughter there. It is beyond important to me that she grows up to understand that our faith is an entire way of life - it is the air we breathe and the light by which we see. It is NOT just something that we do on Sunday mornings. So for those people who are able to join homeschooling groups that help them accomplish their spiritual goals for their children, well . . . I get it. That's all. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 At the time the disciples were called, Jesus had not yet revealed Himself as Messiah so how could they have a specific belief in Him as the Messiah? He was in the process of revealing Himself. Different ball of wax now that He has been fully revealed. One cannot simply believe whatever they want about Him and call himself a Christian. Sure they can. It is done every single day of the year. Otherwise there would still be one Christian church instead of... how many different Christian denominations are there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Greta, you are awesome. :grouphug: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 :lol: Oh yeah, well you have cooties!:tongue_smilie: I have the cure for that. Let's see... ah! Circle, dot COOTIE SHOT! POW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I have the cure for that. Let's see... ah! Circle, dot COOTIE SHOT! POW! Okay, okay... now you don't have cooties.:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Okay, okay... now you don't have cooties.:D I want my dd to be well rounded so we have actually done cootie shots in this house. :D:lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weaver_67579 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I disagree-there have been many posts to the contrary and many uncharitable comments about groups that have an SOF. Many recommendations on how to subvert signing an SOF. Many arguments about why having this type of group is unkind, un-Christian, limiting a child's exposure, preventing kids from being "socialized", mocking the beliefs of those who would start or join such a group, etc. Of course people don't have to like it-I frequently don't like it-but to say that the right of these groups to exist or further that their existence is acceptable is not proven in this thread. If compassion is lacking it is lacking on both sides of the argument. ;)and didn't see anywhere that someone didn't think a sof group had a right to exist. I may very well be one of the folks you think uncharitable. My personal beef-as stated several times before is the group that denied me membership was not up-front about it's requirements and gave me the run-around. I did state the run-around was rude-and I knew several people that got the same rude treatment. I stated I knew people who just signed without believing-though I did not say that was a correct way to procede. I also stated I told people looking for groups in our area about my treatment by that particular group-and that I do refer to them when someone seems to want something with a Christian focus rather than our inclusive group. I did not see any mocking posts. Saying you can't figure out why someone needs one-does not mean you are mocking those that do. I don't come from a persona place where I feel the need to keep my kids away from other groups not like us-So it is just a "I just don't get it" place not a "you are a kook and I don't believe you have a right to do that" place. I can't figure out why one would be needed instead of a code of conduct, but I would fight tooth and nail to keep the rights of a group to have one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 So do you mean that for the first group 'sharing values' is determined by doctrine and theology, and for the second group 'sharing values' has a much looser definition - perhaps defined by the decision to homeschool? If so, the two groups have a different definition of the word 'values'. Well, no, the value that I think is shared by the latter group is religious plurality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Greta, you are awesome. :grouphug: No, you are just very, very gracious. :001_smile: :grouphug: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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