Tap Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 I have had this thought floating around my head for a while. If an adult has a nude picture of someone under 18 it can be deemed child porn.....why wouldn't sexting fall under the same laws? I am guessing that someone under 16 can't legally consent to nude photography in most states, so do you think that they should use some of the same laws to curb its popularity? I don't think people should get Sex Offender convictions for a picture that someone else sent them, but what if they, then forward it on to someone else? Does it matter if it is a 16yo or an 18yo? Many, many high school students are 18 or even 19yo....if they did decide to start prosecuting something like this, would it matter that the 'adult' was still a high school student? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LunaLee Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 I think so. I think there is so much of it because kids/teens have just become so desensitized to the exploitation of their bodies, they don't really see it as harmful. Of course that's not true, but if it became a "crime" then I think they may realize it's really not ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catherine Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Criminalizing immaturity isn't going to be the most effective response. I think educating parents would work better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skadi Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 What Catherine said. The reason that having a picture of a nude child is deemed illegal is that you are possessing evidence of a person who was being exploited. If someone drew a picture of a naked child performing a sexual act with an adult, for instance, that would not be illegal (in the U.S.). A fifteen or sixteen year old is not a child, IMHO. They are a minor, sure, but I don't believe they should be treated the same as an eight year old in terms of pornography laws. "S*xting" is not a problem the government should be expected to fix...to me, that is a moral issue, not a legal one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama Geek Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 I don't think an 18 or 19 yo should get a conviction that will follow them all of their lives for sexting or for that matter sleeping with a 16 yo or 17 yo. That to me is just crazy. Where do you draw the line? I really don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renee in NC Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 It's been done already. Teens face child p0rn charges This isn't the only case, either. I have warned my ds what can happen, so I hope he will avoid this sort of thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 My dd is 16. If she were to decide to take and send naked pictures of herself to people, well, that's her decision. Would I be happy? No. Would I think that it's a criminal act? Nope. Would I think that a 19 year old boy who received the pics should be prosecuted or labeled a sex offender? H*ll no. As someone else posted, a 16 or 17 year old is a minor but not a child. Tara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Regardless of the fact that these kids "want" to take the pictures (thereby not being exploited) they're still putting out child pornograph. If we start getting into whether or not a child "wants" to do porn shoots, so those shoots should be legalized, we're getting into a dark and disturbing place. It's been done already. Teens face child p0rn charges This isn't the only case, either. I have warned my ds what can happen, so I hope he will avoid this sort of thing. Me too and I am HAPPY that I can point to this as what will happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
susankenny Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 It really just depends on the circumstance. Like everything. I know of a 16 year old that sent pictures of herself topless to a "family friend" who is 25. In this situation, I fully believe he is a predator & should be treated as one. The mother found the text photo on her daughter's phone & when she confronted this "friend", he acted ignorant of course. His reply to the picture ("Wow, Hot!") tells otherwise. Susan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lolly Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 It has happened here as well. The girl who originally took and sent the picture of herself to her boyfriend was not charged in any way. The under 18's who sent the picture on were not charged, but were scared stiff. The over 18's who sent it on were charged and convicted. Big stink at the local high school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomOfOneFunOne Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 My family and I went to a sporting event at a local prot church. It ended up being something that I didn't want to participate in but my husband wanted to see his friend compete. Actually it was a karate tourney in the gym but b/t groups, they'd have skits and other things I found objectionable. So, while waiting for my husband to finish up, my daughter and I went walking in the adjacent woods. We came back to the parking lot through a back way and Lo and Behold! there were three girls taking topless photos of each other with their camera phones. I whirled my girl around, marched into the building and started looking for my husband. Before we found him, we found them. They were at the registration table getting names and numbers of registrants to send their pics to. One girl seemed to be the ring leader and she was just so loud and obvious about it. In retrospect, maybe she was screaming for some kind of help/attention/whatever. Anyway, she kept laughing and saying that she wanted to send out some pics of the tourney to some of the ppl and then they'd all laugh. None in my family was a participant so our names were not there but I do know ppl on that list who would have been horrified to rec the pics. The ppl who should be in trouble in this particular case, imho, are the parents of the girls, the girls, and the ppl who let them have access to the list. I spoke with my husband and he spoke with one of the organizers who said that the access to the list would stop but that they couldn't do anything about the kids. sad. recipients' fault? In this case no but in so many, I would say probably yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Criminalizing immaturity isn't going to be the most effective response. I think educating parents would work better. :iagree::iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 If we start getting into whether or not a child "wants" to do porn shoots, so those shoots should be legalized, we're getting into a dark and disturbing place. I think there is a difference between porn shoots that involve others/presumably adults and a kid in her bedroom taking a naked pic of herself. Tara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomOfOneFunOne Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 I have had this thought floating around my head for a while. If an adult has a nude picture of someone under 18 it can be deemed child porn.....why wouldn't sexting fall under the same laws? I am guessing that someone under 16 can't legally consent to nude photography in most states, so do you think that they should use some of the same laws to curb its popularity? I don't think people should get Sex Offender convictions for a picture that someone else sent them, but what if they, then forward it on to someone else? Does it matter if it is a 16yo or an 18yo? Many, many high school students are 18 or even 19yo....if they did decide to start prosecuting something like this, would it matter that the 'adult' was still a high school student? Yes, I think the same laws apply. Also, I think if a minor sends lewd photos of him- or herself the laws should still apply. If it's p0rn, it's p0rn and if it's child p0rn, it's still child p0rn. Even if the child took and distributed the pictures, I think it should be delt with pretty strictly. If a person receives lewd material not of his or her own instigation but then forwards it on, guilty . . . unless he or she is sending it to mom and dad to bring it to their attention. Well, this is my first time to hear the term s3xting but I can certainly guess. I'd say it falls under the same as above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 recipients' fault? In this case no but in so many, I would say probably yes. Do yo have teenagers? My next door neighbor last year-they have 4 teens. All incredible kids-hard workers, full scholarships to great schools. Good people. The girlfriend of the son sent son a nude pict. Another kid grabbed the phone in the hall and forwarded it to everyone-funny, right? Grab the phone while classes are changing, play keepaway and forward the pict? Guess who got blamed? He was almost expelled and arrested. Should all of the recipients on his list be hauled in? We had to have a LONG talk with him that in no way shape or form could he have any nude picts on his phone. It didn't matter who sent them to him-erase all picts immediately and Mom will be checking the phone. How about the GIRLS who SEND the picts get expelled and perhaps something else-minor-for just cases like this, like a few nights in jail or community service? In most cases I've heard, the girls are the ones who initiate it, and the boys, neanderthals that they can be think, "Ohhh bewbies!" instead of erasing them. And, how is that reaction on their part any different that sharing their stash of playboys? Perfect? no, but around for a very, very long time. And very reliable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAutumnOak Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 I think there is a difference between porn shoots that involve others/presumably adults and a kid in her bedroom taking a naked pic of herself. Tara :iagree::iagree::iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LidiyaDawn Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 I don't understand why charges would be laid against anyone if the person IN the photo is the one who took and sent the photos! (assuming there was no force, no threat, no unwillingness, etc) .... Doesn't a crime (especially a sex crime) require a victim? She's not a victim if she was a willing participant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 I think there is a difference between porn shoots that involve others/presumably adults and a kid in her bedroom taking a naked pic of herself. Tara :iagree::iagree: Yup. One is immaturity, the other is a decision made by an adult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomOfOneFunOne Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Do yo have teenagers? My next door neighbor last year-they have 4 teens. All incredible kids-hard workers, full scholarships to great schools. Good people. The girlfriend of the son sent son a nude pict. Another kid grabbed the phone in the hall and forwarded it to everyone-funny, right? Grab the phone while classes are changing, play keepaway and forward the pict? Guess who got blamed? He was almost expelled and arrested. Should all of the recipients on his list be hauled in? We had to have a LONG talk with him that in no way shape or form could he have any nude picts on his phone. It didn't matter who sent them to him-erase all picts immediately and Mom will be checking the phone. How about the GIRLS who SEND the picts get expelled and perhaps something else-minor-for just cases like this, like a few nights in jail or community service? In most cases I've heard, the girls are the ones who initiate it, and the boys, neanderthals that they can be think, "Ohhh bewbies!" instead of erasing them. And, how is that reaction on their part any different that sharing their stash of playboys? Perfect? no, but around for a very, very long time. And very reliable. :lol::lol::lol: Oh that is hilarious! No, I don't have a teen yet. But he wasn't, right? Almost isn't. And I DO think the girl is at fault and should be punished in this case not the boy. I absolutely think that if a person willing participates in a p0rnographic act, such as sending out nude photos of herself, should be held accountable under the law. It doesnt' matter to me if she did it herself. You might have noted in my post that the ppl on the registration list were not ppl I considered guilty of willfully participating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 I think there is a difference between porn shoots that involve others/presumably adults and a kid in her bedroom taking a naked pic of herself. Tara You don't see that making that legal is opening a massive loop hole? So, the child porn industry starts focusing on shoots that appear to be done by children. Oh, children that 'want' to take the pictures. I have to disagree that this should not fall under child pornography. It is child pornography. It's porn with children. Making exceptions is terrible, imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 You don't see that making that legal is opening a massive loop hole? So, the child porn industry starts focusing on shoots that appear to be done by children. Oh, children that 'want' to take the pictures. I think there is a difference between a naked pic sent on a cell phone and a porn shoot is all I'm sayin'. It's not too hard to determine whether a kid took and sent a pic with her own phone versus marketed child porn. Tara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 I think there is a difference between a naked pic sent on a cell phone and a porn shoot is all I'm sayin'. It's not too hard to determine whether a kid took and sent a pic with her own phone versus marketed child porn. Tara :shrug: I disagree. Doesn't mean I don't like you though :p :lol: No hard feelings or anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarbecueMom Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 I think part of the problem is that, at least in our state, minors CAN consent to other minors, even if they are not legally able to consent to adults. A 14 year old can sleep with another 14 year old with zero legal repercussions. If teens view sending nekked photos of themselves to other minors as an extension of the physical activity, and not the production of p0rnography, they see it as legal and "harmless". If you make it completely illegal for all ages, it becomes a blackmail tactic at the end of bad teenage relationships. If it stays legal, it becomes a way for boys to coerce young girls into taking/sending them pictures. I don't think there is a way to end any problem that involves technology, hormones, and immaturity. Only education can minimize its occurrence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LidiyaDawn Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 I have to disagree that this should not fall under child pornography. It is child pornography. It's porn with children. Making exceptions is terrible, imo. So what happens if a 17 year old girl takes topless pics of herself (willingly, wanting to do it, no threat/etc) and sends them to ten guys...now what... ten guys get charged (and end up on a sex offender registry) for... receiving a photo? They didn't take it, they didn't request it (in our scenario here), they did nothing but receive -- which you can't prevent on most phones. Does SHE get charged? It's her body - it was her choice to do it. How do we charge people for things they do to themselves? (If I hit myself in the face with a stick, can I then be charged with assault.. on myself? :tongue_smilie: ) I was a bit of a wild teen - I was having sex with much older guys (20+) when I was 14/15. Some would say that they should have been charged with something - but hey --- I was the one going (willingly) to meet these guys. I wasn't threatened, I wasn't assaulted, I wasn't coerced. I went and I had sex with them of my own choice. A very STUPID choice, yes. ;) But it was still 100% my choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 No hard feelings or anything. Oh, no, you've totally blown it. I'm mortally wounded and will never forgive you. :p Tara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 So what happens if a 17 year old girl takes topless pics of herself (willingly, wanting to do it, no threat/etc) and sends them to ten guys...now what... ten guys get charged (and end up on a sex offender registry) for... receiving a photo? They didn't take it, they didn't request it (in our scenario here), they did nothing but receive -- which you can't prevent on most phones. Does SHE get charged? It's her body - it was her choice to do it. How do we charge people for things they do to themselves? (If I hit myself in the face with a stick, can I then be charged with assault.. on myself? :tongue_smilie: ) I was a bit of a wild teen - I was having sex with much older guys (20+) when I was 14/15. Some would say that they should have been charged with something - but hey --- I was the one going (willingly) to meet these guys. I wasn't threatened, I wasn't assaulted, I wasn't coerced. I went and I had sex with them of my own choice. A very STUPID choice, yes. ;) But it was still 100% my choice. :iagree: Very unfair to the boys that are on the receiving end. I've seen stuff girls put on their facebook accounts and they don't look coerced. If someone send me porn via the mail or spams my email with it, should I be charged? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie in CA Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 So what happens if a 17 year old girl takes topless pics of herself (willingly, wanting to do it, no threat/etc) and sends them to ten guys...now what... ten guys get charged (and end up on a sex offender registry) for... receiving a photo? They didn't take it, they didn't request it (in our scenario here), they did nothing but receive -- which you can't prevent on most phones. Does SHE get charged? It's her body - it was her choice to do it. How do we charge people for things they do to themselves? (If I hit myself in the face with a stick, can I then be charged with assault.. on myself? :tongue_smilie: ) :iagree: Who's really the criminal here? No one. I agree with the poster who said that this is a moral issue, not a criminal issue. Legislating morality almost never has the intended effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 I don't understand why charges would be laid against anyone if the person IN the photo is the one who took and sent the photos! (assuming there was no force, no threat, no unwillingness, etc) .... Doesn't a crime (especially a sex crime) require a victim? She's not a victim if she was a willing participant. How do the police make the determination btwn a willing participant vs victim? So many victims defend their abusers (thinking family violence/s*xual abuse) and say that it didn't happen, or they were willing participants. Same with children who have been 'groomed' by a pedophile. A 30 yo SHOULD be charged if they're sleeping with a 14 yo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Margaret in GA Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Do yo have teenagers? My next door neighbor last year-they have 4 teens. All incredible kids-hard workers, full scholarships to great schools. Good people. The girlfriend of the son sent son a nude pict. Another kid grabbed the phone in the hall and forwarded it to everyone-funny, right? Grab the phone while classes are changing, play keepaway and forward the pict? Guess who got blamed? He was almost expelled and arrested. Should all of the recipients on his list be hauled in? We had to have a LONG talk with him that in no way shape or form could he have any nude picts on his phone. It didn't matter who sent them to him-erase all picts immediately and Mom will be checking the phone. How about the GIRLS who SEND the picts get expelled and perhaps something else-minor-for just cases like this, like a few nights in jail or community service? In most cases I've heard, the girls are the ones who initiate it, and the boys, neanderthals that they can be think, "Ohhh bewbies!" instead of erasing them. And, how is that reaction on their part any different that sharing their stash of playboys? Perfect? no, but around for a very, very long time. And very reliable. In fact, this is not true: http://www.pcsndreams.com/Pages/Sexting_Statistics.html 51 Percent of teen girls say pressure from a guy is a reason girls send sexy messages or images; only 18 % of teen boys cited pressure from female counterparts as a reason. And to me, the most shocking statistic is this one: 48 Percent of teenagers say they have received such messages So, unless you want to criminalize 48% of all teens, we will have to come up with another way to deal with this as parents and as a society. For me, I was totally blindsided when it happened in my own family. I had no idea what a common thing it was or that my own child would do it. Of course, we'd had multiple discussions about how stupid it is and how once you put something out there, it's there for anyone to see. Fell on deaf ears, I guess. We've moved on now and I hope lessons have been learned, but I swear no matter how good a job I feel like I'm doing at home, the peer pressure out there right now is unreal. Margaret Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DianeW88 Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 It's a crime here in Utah and children have been brought to court. I honestly didn't keep up with the cases, so I don't know the outcomes, but it is considered an offense here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie4b Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Regardless of the fact that these kids "want" to take the pictures (thereby not being exploited) they're still putting out child pornograph. If we start getting into whether or not a child "wants" to do porn shoots, so those shoots should be legalized, we're getting into a dark and disturbing place. Me too and I am HAPPY that I can point to this as what will happen. I disagree. with sexting, the kid themselves *starts* it. In other scenarios, the issue is *consent* and there is an adult involved. If an adult forwarded a nude text sent by a known teen, then *that* would be child porn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannah C. Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 I think s3xting/sending nude pics should be illegal in some way. I do *NOT* think that the 20 yo boy who has pictures of a topless 16 yo girl on his cell phone, pictures sent to him *BY* the 16yo girl, should be haunted by the name of "s3x offender" for the rest of his life. Nor do I think the 16yo should be getting off scot free. I would say that pictures taken on, say, a digital camera and given to other(s) seems to me to be a more serious offense than the s3xting. But if all the pictures are happening on cell phones, in text messages, then no, don't call the stupid teens/young adults s3x offenders unless something else can be proven to have occurred. For example, in TX 16yo and 20yo having s3x is statutory rape. If there's less than three years' age difference between them, however, no statutory rape. If the guy receiving the pics is 30 and there is evidence that he's okay with that, well, he probably does deserve the s3x offender label. Then again, there's probably something else going on besides just the s3xting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie4b Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Absolutely not. 1) It diminishes the value of real child porn, in which someone of the age of consent exploits someone under the age of consent. 2) It raises "stupidity"/"immaturity" to a crime with horrendous, lifelong implications. (Cannot live near a school, cannot have contact with children, etc. in some jurisdictions.) Though juvenile crimes are concealed in some jurisdictions, certain ones are not concealed in others. There is no guarantee that juvenile sex convictions are going to stay sealed forever. 3) this is making a lifelong crime for a teen to do what an adult can do legally without a license. In the other instances in which this is the case (drinking, smoking, etc.) the crime is a misdemeanor. I think sexting *should* be illegal, but as a misdemeanor, not as a sex offense. It should be a misdemeanor to produce it or to send it. If the person who sends it is an adult and has reason to know the photo is of a teen, then that should be child porn. The whole issue is maturity. This whole issue really upsets me as well as rigid laws about consensual sex between teens (which allow prosecution for statutory rape in some places if a 17 or 18 year old has sex with someone 2 years younger than they are. I think both are a gross miscarriage of justice . I am a conversative Christian, fwiw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiana Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Absolutely not. 1) It diminishes the value of real child porn, in which someone of the age of consent exploits someone under the age of consent. 2) It raises "stupidity"/"immaturity" to a crime with horrendous, lifelong implications. (Cannot live near a school, cannot have contact with children, etc. in some jurisdictions.) Though juvenile crimes are concealed in some jurisdictions, certain ones are not concealed in others. There is no guarantee that juvenile sex convictions are going to stay sealed forever. 3) this is making a lifelong crime for a teen to do what an adult can do legally without a license. In the other instances in which this is the case (drinking, smoking, etc.) the crime is a misdemeanor. I think sexting *should* be illegal, but as a misdemeanor, not as a sex offense. It should be a misdemeanor to produce it or to send it. If the person who sends it is an adult and has reason to know the photo is of a teen, then that should be child porn. The whole issue is maturity. This whole issue really upsets me as well as rigid laws about consensual sex between teens (which allow prosecution for statutory rape in some places if a 17 or 18 year old has sex with someone 2 years younger than they are. I think both are a gross miscarriage of justice . I am a conversative Christian, fwiw. :iagree: I also think there's a real difference between a photo of a 16 yr old, who is often indistinguishable from an adult (at least in the chest region), and a photo of an 8 yr old who is (usually) very clearly pre-nubile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 If the guy receiving the pics is 30 and there is evidence that he's okay with that, well, he probably does deserve the s3x offender label. I don't think so. I think that labeling anything that has anything to do with nudity of teens a "sex offense" cheapens ACTUAL sex offenses that include harm to someone. Honestly, if a 16 year old sends a 30 year old a nudie pic, no one is harmed. No one is hurt. If there is pressure to do so, well, that sucks, but we all know that pressure exists among kids of the same age, too. Pressure is pressure, and I'm not sure it necessarily makes a difference where it comes from; we need to equip our girls to be strong and say no. Saying that a nudie pic sent by a teen is somehow on par with rape or molestation in that both men will be labeled sex offenders is not a good idea, imo. I don't really want 30 year olds looking at nudie pics of my 16 year old (or me, for that matter), but neither do I want someone who has not touched or harmed my child have his life destroyed for something that really hurts no one. My child is not actually harmed by someone looking at a nudie pic she chose to take and send. She may feel embarrassed later and be sorry she did it, but hey ... that's kinda life. You live, you learn. Tara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 So what happens if a 17 year old girl takes topless pics of herself (willingly, wanting to do it, no threat/etc) and sends them to ten guys...now what... ten guys get charged (and end up on a sex offender registry) for... receiving a photo? They didn't take it, they didn't request it (in our scenario here), they did nothing but receive -- which you can't prevent on most phones. Does SHE get charged? It's her body - it was her choice to do it. How do we charge people for things they do to themselves? (If I hit myself in the face with a stick, can I then be charged with assault.. on myself? :tongue_smilie: ) I was a bit of a wild teen - I was having sex with much older guys (20+) when I was 14/15. Some would say that they should have been charged with something - but hey --- I was the one going (willingly) to meet these guys. I wasn't threatened, I wasn't assaulted, I wasn't coerced. I went and I had sex with them of my own choice. A very STUPID choice, yes. ;) But it was still 100% my choice. If someone sent me unwanted pornography I would guess they could get charged with, at the very least, solicitation. If that person sent me unwanted child pornography, then they should be charged as distributing child pornography. Recieiving something you never requested isn't a crime. Forwarding it on to others, though, would make it appear you happily recieved it. I've known grown men that recieved such pictures from the children of their friends. Those pictures were forwarded once, to the kid's parents and the phone was turned in to the local police department. Sure, they had to hang out for awhile while the cops stripped their phone, but they never had to worry that lurking somewhere in their phone were photos that could get them sent to prison. Oh, no, you've totally blown it. I'm mortally wounded and will never forgive you. :p Tara :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 I disagree. with sexting, the kid themselves *starts* it. In other scenarios, the issue is *consent* and there is an adult involved. If an adult forwarded a nude text sent by a known teen, then *that* would be child porn. But how do you prove that? How do you prove that a child took the pictures themself? IOW, if a big nasty child predator starting mocking they "style" of kids how would law enforcement be able to prove that? It's not a matter of consent. If that's the case then most kidnapping charges should be tossed out, because the kids agree to go. It's a matter of protecting children from making choices they have no business making. Like another poster pointed out, she was a preteen having sex with grown men. Are they really not predators? Are they really in the green, because she (at the time a child) wanted to do that? That is the same case that NMBLA uses to justify what THEY do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 But how do you prove that? How do you prove that a child took the pictures themself? Well, if Sally has a phone, and a nudie pic of Sally was sent from Sally's phone to Johnny that she goes to school with, and you can see Sally's Justin Bieber picture on her bedroom wall in the background, it's pretty clear that Sally took the pic of herself, right? I suppose it's *possible* that Scummy McScummerson, the local child porn mogul, got into Sally's bedroom and forced her to take the picture, but the likelihood of that is pretty slim, right? Tare Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Well, if Sally has a phone, and a nudie pic of Sally was sent from Sally's phone to Johnny that she goes to school with, and you can see Sally's Justin Bieber picture on her bedroom wall in the background, it's pretty clear that Sally took the pic of herself, right? I suppose it's *possible* that Scummy McScummerson, the local child porn mogul, got into Sally's bedroom and forced her to take the picture, but the likelihood of that is pretty slim, right? Tare Or that Sally has gotten herself mixed up with Trashy McTrasherton and he's been hanging around and abusing Sally for sometime now. Or she's been babysat by Nasty McFamilymember and this is just another addition to their cruel arsenal. :lol: I will say this though. When it comes to giving kids birthcontrol/sex ed. my head explodes and I say, it is not worth those slim margins to expose nonsexually active kids to this sort of stuff. In this case, I find myself on the other side and thinking, heck yes it's worth those slim margins. I can justify it too :lol: What Sally is doing is bad for her, regardless of who is taking the pictures. Sally is also a minor which means she still needs "guidance" and restrictions. Otherwise, Sally should get a night job and her own place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Sally is also a minor which means she still needs "guidance" and restrictions. Otherwise, Sally should get a night job and her own place. Pretty much exactly what I say to my own 16-year-old Sally when she kvetches about our rules and restrictions. "If you're old enough not to need parents anymore, you're old enough to move out and pay all your own bills, sweets." :D If my little Sally ever s3xted and I found out about it, the problem would be solved pretty quick because I would a) report it to the police so that we would be somewhat protected from whatever legal ramifications were in store; b) report it to the school so that any other kids involved would be on the receiving end of the school's "guidance"; c) blowtorch my kid's phone; d) run over her (non-internet connected) laptop with my car; e) delete her FB and email accounts; and f) remind her that she has chosen two years of never going anywhere without mom or dad. I take it seriously; I just don't think it's a sex offense. Tara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silliness7 Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 So what happens if a 17 year old girl takes topless pics of herself (willingly, wanting to do it, no threat/etc) and sends them to ten guys...now what... ten guys get charged (and end up on a sex offender registry) for... receiving a photo? They didn't take it, they didn't request it (in our scenario here), they did nothing but receive -- which you can't prevent on most phones. Does SHE get charged? It's her body - it was her choice to do it. How do we charge people for things they do to themselves? (If I hit myself in the face with a stick, can I then be charged with assault.. on myself? :tongue_smilie: ) Does SHE get charged even though it is her own body? Well, if a man flashed his parts at me, I do believe that he would be charged with something...indecent exposure? sexual harrassment? I don't know exactly, but I do know that it is wrong. It has not been typical in the past for a woman to expose herself in such a way to a man or maybe in the rare instances that occurred it wasn't likely the man was to do much objecting. But if it's becoming the "thing" for girls to get their jollies "flashing" photos at boys then yes, the girls should get in trouble...just as much trouble as a boy would get in for flashing his parts to a girl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarbecueMom Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 If someone sent me unwanted pornography I would guess they could get charged with, at the very least, solicitation. If that person sent me unwanted child pornography, then they should be charged as distributing child pornography. Recieiving something you never requested isn't a crime. Forwarding it on to others, though, would make it appear you happily recieved it. I've known grown men that recieved such pictures from the children of their friends. Those pictures were forwarded once, to the kid's parents and the phone was turned in to the local police department. Sure, they had to hang out for awhile while the cops stripped their phone, but they never had to worry that lurking somewhere in their phone were photos that could get them sent to prison. :lol: In theory, yes. In practice, no. It is common for child p0rnography to be included in packages of adult p0rnography downloaded from the internet. They may be hidden, and the recipient has no idea the files are included, but they are there and only there because the person downloaded legal p0rnography in the first place. However, this is also how perverts get their materials. It's hidden, with their knowledge, in legal materials in hopes that no one will find out what they are actually viewing. Two men could be downloading the same zipped file, one looking for legal p0rn and the other looking for child p0rn. They are both in possession of child p0rn, which is the actual crime, regardless of their intent. Both pervy creeps and innocent men are saying, "I didn't know it was there!" It's very difficult to prove innocence on these things, and most men are advised to take a plea bargain regardless of their intent. Honestly, knowing the way this stuff works, I can't imagine why any man would want to jeopardize his entire life to look at p0rnography on the Internet. With all the viruses, adware, spyware, keyloggers, Trojans, and files of illegal material, why would you risk the your personal information and the prosecution of accidentally acquiring something illegal when you can just subscribe to Hustler? The difference between s*xting and downloading is initiating the transmission of the pictures, I guess. That makes it more complicated than simply "possession of child porn". Sorry, kinda off topic. Sorta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Does SHE get charged even though it is her own body?Well, if a man flashed his parts at me, I do believe that he would be charged with something...indecent exposure? sexual harrassment? I don't know exactly, but I do know that it is wrong. It has not been typical in the past for a woman to expose herself in such a way to a man or maybe in the rare instances that occurred it wasn't likely the man was to do much objecting. But if it's becoming the "thing" for girls to get their jollies "flashing" photos at boys then yes, the girls should get in trouble...just as much trouble as a boy would get in for flashing his parts to a girl. Apparently, it IS the "thing." See this story from my local paper: http://fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2009/062009/06032009/470751 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Pretty much exactly what I say to my own 16-year-old Sally when she kvetches about our rules and restrictions. "If you're old enough not to need parents anymore, you're old enough to move out and pay all your own bills, sweets." :D If my little Sally ever s3xted and I found out about it, the problem would be solved pretty quick because I would a) report it to the police so that we would be somewhat protected from whatever legal ramifications were in store; b) report it to the school so that any other kids involved would be on the receiving end of the school's "guidance"; c) blowtorch my kid's phone; d) run over her (non-internet connected) laptop with my car; e) delete her FB and email accounts; and f) remind her that she has chosen two years of never going anywhere without mom or dad. I take it seriously; I just don't think it's a sex offense. Tara Brace yourself...... :iagree: With everything, except the 'not a sex offense' part :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie4b Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 (edited) But how do you prove that? How do you prove that a child took the pictures themself? IOW, if a big nasty child predator starting mocking they "style" of kids how would law enforcement be able to prove that? Huh? If a teenaged girl sends it herself, they prove it the same way they prove anything in court and she is convicted of child porn. If a big bad predator sends it, they prove it the same way. Digital communication leaves a trail. It's not a special kind of crime in terms of proof. It's not a matter of consent. If that's the case then most kidnapping charges should be tossed out, because the kids agree to go. It's a matter of protecting children from making choices they have no business making. That''s what I mean by consent. We have laws that specify an age before which kids cannot give consent. I specifically mentioned those types of offenses in my main post. Like another poster pointed out, she was a preteen having sex with grown men. Are they really not predators? Are they really in the green, because she (at the time a child) wanted to do that? That is the same case that NMBLA uses to justify what THEY do. Either you have totally misread what I wrote or you're setting up very insulting straw men. My whole point is that in teen sexting (not adult men somehow egging it on), we are setting up teens who have chosen to do things all by their little old selves with their little old peers being convicted of child porn. I also stated that I thought it should be illegal as in a misdemeanor, like drinking is treated. Here's what I wrote: I disagree. with sexting, the kid themselves *starts* it. In other scenarios, the issue is *consent* and there is an adult involved. If an adult forwarded a nude text sent by a known teen, then *that* would be child porn. (re-emphasized) Here's the other quote, which was my full response to the question the OP posed: Absolutely not. 1) It diminishes the value of real child porn, in which someone of the age of consent exploits someone under the age of consent. 2) It raises "stupidity"/"immaturity" to a crime with horrendous, lifelong implications. (Cannot live near a school, cannot have contact with children, etc. in some jurisdictions.) Though juvenile crimes are concealed in some jurisdictions, certain ones are not concealed in others. There is no guarantee that juvenile sex convictions are going to stay sealed forever. 3) this is making a lifelong crime for a teen to do what an adult can do legally without a license. In the other instances in which this is the case (drinking, smoking, etc.) the crime is a misdemeanor. I think sexting *should* be illegal, but as a misdemeanor, not as a sex offense. It should be a misdemeanor to produce it or to send it. If the person who sends it is an adult and has reason to know the photo is of a teen, then that should be child porn. The whole issue is maturity. This whole issue really upsets me as well as rigid laws about consensual sex between teens (which allow prosecution for statutory rape in some places if a 17 or 18 year old has sex with someone 2 years younger than they are. I think both are a gross miscarriage of justice . I am a conversative Christian, fwiw. Edited January 13, 2011 by Laurie4b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie4b Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Pretty much exactly what I say to my own 16-year-old Sally when she kvetches about our rules and restrictions. "If you're old enough not to need parents anymore, you're old enough to move out and pay all your own bills, sweets." :D If my little Sally ever s3xted and I found out about it, the problem would be solved pretty quick because I would a) report it to the police so that we would be somewhat protected from whatever legal ramifications were in store; Just in case--call a lawyer instead. I've been told never ever to turn your kid into police yourself. It can be disasterous. It is certainly not something that you can count on being "protective" in any way shape or form. b) report it to the school so that any other kids involved would be on the receiving end of the school's "guidance"; c) blowtorch my kid's phone; d) run over her (non-internet connected) laptop with my car; e) delete her FB and email accounts; and f) remind her that she has chosen two years of never going anywhere without mom or dad. I take it seriously; I just don't think it's a sex offense. Tara See text. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Either you have totally misread what I wrote or you're setting up very insulting straw men. My whole point is that in teen sexting (not adult men somehow egging it on), we are setting up teens who have chosen to do things all by their little old selves with their little old peers being convicted of child porn.We are assuming they're setting it up themselves. We're assuming they want to take these pictures. Why? Because it's on their own phone. Well, it's not that difficult to take pictures with someone else's phone. I also stated that I thought it should be illegal as in a misdemeanor, like drinking is treated. Here's what I wrote: I disagree. with sexting, the kid themselves *starts* it. In other scenarios, the issue is *consent* and there is an adult involved. If an adult forwarded a nude text sent by a known teen, then *that* would be child porn. (re-emphasized) Here's the other quote, which was my full response to the question the OP posed: Absolutely not. 1) It diminishes the value of real child porn, in which someone of the age of consent exploits someone under the age of consent. 2) It raises "stupidity"/"immaturity" to a crime with horrendous, lifelong implications. This "stupidity/immaturity" CAN have life long implications. Their naked pictures are out there FOR.EV.ER. Wouldn't it be a little easier to understand those lifelong ramifications if the punishment for it is also life long?!?(Cannot live near a school, cannot have contact with children, etc. in some jurisdictions.) Though juvenile crimes are concealed in some jurisdictions, certain ones are not concealed in others. There is no guarantee that juvenile sex convictions are going to stay sealed forever. 3) this is making a lifelong crime for a teen to do what an adult can do legally without a license. In the other instances in which this is the case (drinking, smoking, etc.) the crime is a misdemeanor. I think sexting *should* be illegal, but as a misdemeanor, not as a sex offense. It should be a misdemeanor to produce it or to send it. If the person who sends it is an adult and has reason to know the photo is of a teen, then that should be child porn. The whole issue is maturity. It is a sex offense though. As another poster pointed out, if a person were to expose themselves in public it's considered a sex crime. This is exposing themselves to the public. It's a sex crime. This whole issue really upsets me as well as rigid laws about consensual sex between teens (which allow prosecution for statutory rape in some places if a 17 or 18 year old has sex with someone 2 years younger than they are. I think both are a gross miscarriage of justice . I am a conversative Christian, fwiw. We're not going to agree on this :shrug: I'm sorry if you found my other response offensive. I didn't mean to make it so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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