Cleaning dead animals to study their skeleton?

[joannqn]

Last week while walking with the dog, he found something nasty to rub all over himself. It turned out to be a dead possum. A couple days later, we went back to the area and it was gone. I was kind of disappointed because I was thinking about seeing if there was a way to clean the skeleton for closer study. DH said he'd veto that idea! LOL

 

Now there's a dead salamander on our back porch.

 

Anyone do this with dead things they find? Is there an easy, safe way to strip a skeleton and disinfect it so we can study it?

 

ETA: Is this just too gross to consider?

Edited December 14, 2010 by joannqn

[Starr]

Can't you boil them for a month or something?

[AuntieM]

This is a great idea, if you are willing. Nothing like seeing the actual bone structure.

 

For larger animals, like the 'possom, you may want to check with your state's Department of Wildlife & Fisheries. You wouldn't need a hunting license, but for native wildlife you might need a collector's permit to pick up carcasses. And federally protected animals, like birds of prey, are illegal to touch. Penalties apply!

 

If you boil something, the cartilaginous parts will boil away. Another method is to use dermestid beetles to clean all the flesh off the carcass. I won't go into detail here, but you can google that. You can also wrap a larger dead critter in small gauge chicken wire and set it out in the field for a few weeks. Might want to stake it to the ground so it can't be carried off.

 

As far as disinfecting it, I honestly can't remember... just a good spray of Lysol, maybe.

 

I'll see if I can find another link for you.

 

Have your kids ever taken apart owl pellets? They might enjoy that if they've never done it before.

[....]

I actually used to work doing this in the Zoology Dept of the Field Museum when I was in college. :glare: A small scalpel and tweezers work great, too - once you get most of the stuff off the bones. We also used the flesh-eating beetles, but sheesh - those are hard to come by - and then, when you're finished, what do you do with them? lol!

[colleenebeans]

I think its awesome and my son asks to do this all the time. My hubby usually thinks there is something wrong with us when we start talking about this...LOL.

We havent done it yet though as we always get stuck at the part that you are at now...what to do! LOL

[Corraleno]

My x-SIL is an archaeologist who specializes in identification of animal bones, so people are always bringing her dead animals for her study collection. She wraps them in netting and buries them in the backyard for a year or two, then digs them up and bleaches the bones. I think (not positive) she uses hydrogen peroxide to bleach/disinfect them? If anyone knows of a book or website that would cover this, I'd love a link, because this is something we'd like to do as well.

 

Jackie

[Pippen]

When I took an ichthyology class we gutted the fish then scraped off as much tissue as possible and then stuck the rest in crockpots outdoors for a day or two.

 

It was pretty disgusting...and it didn't smell too good either. :tongue_smilie:

[Capt_Uhura]

Google Dirty Jobs - it was on there!

[twoblessings]

She want to be a Vet.

 

She is Vice-President to a 4-H group that does this. They clean the bones and then reasembles them and enters them into fair. They have won 1st place at the fair for 3yrs in a row with their assembled bones. She said if you email her (email below) she would gladly answer any questions you have or if you'd rather she can post here under my name. Let us know.

 

She could send pictures of her finished projects. They are really neat. She has learned alot by doing this.

 

HTH!

 

amonthbyanyothername @ gmail.com

Edited December 14, 2010 by twoblessings

[Corraleno]

Google Dirty Jobs - it was on there!

Do you have a link? I can't find it on the Dirty Jobs website.

 

Jackie

[Whereneverever]

She want to be a Vet.

 

She is Vice-President to a 4-H group that does this. They clean the bones and then reasembles them and enters them into fair. They have won 1st place at the fair for 3yrs in a row with their assembled bones. She said if you email her she would gladly answer any questions you have or if you'd rather she can post here under my name. Let us know.

 

She could send pictures of her finished projects. They are really neat. She has learned alot by doing this.

 

HTH!

I'd be really interested in this!

[AuntieM]

She want to be a Vet.

 

She is Vice-President to a 4-H group that does this. They clean the bones and then reasembles them and enters them into fair. They have won 1st place at the fair for 3yrs in a row with their assembled bones. She said if you email her (email below) she would gladly answer any questions you have or if you'd rather she can post here under my name. Let us know.

 

She could send pictures of her finished projects. They are really neat. She has learned alot by doing this.

 

HTH!

 

amonthbyanyothername @ gmail.com

 

Please do have her post it here! I cannot find the link I was looking for...

[Capt_Uhura]

HHm I don't have a link. We watched last year. He went to a place that cleans carcasses, starting w/ collecting them off the highway (EEWWWWW), for museums and classrooms. I recall they used microorganisms to eat the flesh. They finished with a bleach/peroxide? step at the end to make them white and sanitary. I'll see if I can find a link. I thought maybe there would be an index of shows.

[Abigail4476]

Be sure to wear protective gloves and clothing when dealing with possums, skunks, coyotes, raccoons, etc. If the animal was rabid, it remains a danger even after they die via contact with the carcass.

 

I think this is too gross to consider, :ack2: but if you're going to try cleaning and preserving skeletons, be sure to educate yourself properly on the process for the safety of your child.

 

 

https://www.nysdot.gov/divisions/operating/employee-health-safety/rabies-virus

 

http://pubs.cas.psu.edu/FreePubs/pdfs/uh083.pdf

[AuntieM]

HHm I don't have a link. We watched last year. He went to a place that cleans carcasses, starting w/ collecting them off the highway (EEWWWWW), for museums and classrooms. I recall they used microorganisms to eat the flesh. They finished with a bleach/peroxide? step at the end to make them white and sanitary. I'll see if I can find a link. I thought maybe there would be an index of shows.

 

That would be the dermestid beetles...:)

[hillfarm]

I used to prepare marine mammal bones when I worked for DNR. I used dermestid beetles mostly for that, but occasionally would bury one. BTW, did you know that you can order dermestids throught the mail!?!

 

For stuff here at home I usually clean as much of the flesh off as possible then put it on an ant hill for a couple of weeks, then soak in a bucket of hydrogen peroxide. Some people recommend bleach, but while that whitens the bones, it also tends to weaken them. Okay for large specimens, but not for the tiny stuff, which can become so brittle that they break easily.

 

You can also boil the bones to clean them, but do it outside. It often leaves a terrible smell. And will also weaken the bones. Mike Rowe did an interesting segment on one of his Dirtiest Jobs shows about working at a facility that prepared bones for museum exhibits, etc. I think they boiled them first, scraped off any tissue, then dermestids, then finally a hydrogen peroxide soak.

 

HTH Remember though, that family pets can make the process harder. First they often try to get into the cooling bones that have been boiled - smells like soup to them. And also, once cleaned, they can't differentiate between the stuff from the pet store and the prized collection. We have caught dd's pet pug several times trying to make off with the deer, elk, turtle, turkey, buffalo, and other bone material from her Hopewell Indian project.

 

Good luck. Do take proper precautions on both the legal side and also the sanitation side. There are some pretty nasty bacteria that can be found in decomposing animals and you certainly don't want to handle this with bare hands or allow it to contaminate your work surfaces and area.

[Capt_Uhura]

I was the lucky recipient of a cow skull and leg bone from. They are huge! But wonderful! DD's preK teacher found them in her attic from the previous owner who had been a middle school science teacher.

 

My neighbor found a dead bird which had crashed into his window. No one would stuff it for him b/c he needed to have a special license to kill it. It didn't matter that the bread was already dead w/ a broken neck and no gun shot or arrow wounds. He finally just threw it in the woods. Check the regulations on any carcasses you might pick up.

[twoblessings]

she will be replying shortly.

[Guest AprilMayJune]

Is there any specific questions I can help you with? :001_smile:

 

~AprilMayJune

[*lifeoftheparty*]

.

[mcconnellboys]

Well, LOL, it's not really easy or safe. If you could boil down the possum skeleton outside, in something that you'd never use again for anything else, you might come up with a decent skeleton. But I'd be very careful in handling it, even if you douse it in chlorine first, as I'd worry about parasites.

 

For small skeletons like a salamander, you can just put them in a jar of water in a warm window for a few weeks then pour off (outside!) and rinse down the skeletal parts. Again, I'd be careful and you'd have to use a dilute solution of chlorine or you'll dissolve the bones. Even the water process might dissolve some of them.

 

Be sure to wear gloves at all times and don't breath in any more of the fumes from the water than you have to.

 

The smell is not going to be at all pleasant....

 

Honestly, I really don't think it's worth it to deal with these. There are potential dangers from parasites, bacteria of all sorts (from the animals and the water), etc. The skeletons will be entirely disjointed once they're ready.

 

There are a number of sites online that offer skeletal parts that are already cleaned and disinfected.... Prices vary....

[mcconnellboys]

Yeah, you probably really don't want those pretties in the walls of your house, although if you ever get a dead mouse in the wall, they'd sure take care of it in short order, LOL....

 

I don't think it's legal to own them outside a lab....

[mcconnellboys]

This would be a much longer way of doing things, but would actually be less dangerous in terms of bacteria, etc. and would be less gross in terms of sights and smells. So if you're willing and can mark your spot so you can find your items again, this is really the best way to go for larger animals such as a possum. However, this won't work for small critters and they will be completely gone in short order....

[mcconnellboys]

I'll tell you, though, it's one of the best weight loss plans known to mankind. You get those scent molecules buried in your nasal passages and you smell that maceration smell all.the.time. Even Irish Spring won't wash it away... but you're never hungry!

[mcconnellboys]

"BTW, did you know that you can order dermestids throught the mail!?!"

 

Wow, this really surprises me! They are not domestic, are they? I thought that organisms that might become invasive were more closely monitored than that....

[Guest AprilMayJune]

I don't know, but my experience with Dermestid Beetle Colonies had me plugging my nose! My club owned a colony for months and I would have to say that they smell worse than the actual decomposition! The only smell that I've experienced relating to this topic that I would claim as WORSE than the Dermestid Beetle stench might be mangey maceration. :ack2:

 

Plus, keeping them fed can be a problem...

 

~AprilMayJune

[Matryoshka]

Anyone do this with dead things they find? Is there an easy, safe way to strip a skeleton and disinfect it so we can study it?

 

 

Heh. I grew up with a brother who did this all the time. He had skulls and bones all over his room. He is now a biology teacher. :D

 

I believe he told me once he boiled them with some bleach in the water.

[hillfarm]

Mike Rowe, season 2 of Dirtiest Jobs, Skull Cleaner (No. 13 on the list).

http://www.dirtyjobsmikerowe.com/episode-guide/season-two/

 

Dermestid beetles (appx. $40 for 250 starter colony)http://www.hunthd.com/Taxidermy-Supplies/Dermestid-Beetles/250-Dermestid-Beetles/prod_391.html

 

Seems like I remember tossing ground beef into our colony at work when we didn't have any bone material for them.

[mcconnellboys]

I did marmoset maceration in college in a zooarch lab and there were so many stinky jars in there that I'm not sure I even noticed the dermestids, LOL.... But you're right about keeping 'em fed.....

[justamouse]

HHm I don't have a link. We watched last year. He went to a place that cleans carcasses, starting w/ collecting them off the highway (EEWWWWW), for museums and classrooms. I recall they used microorganisms to eat the flesh. They finished with a bleach/peroxide? step at the end to make them white and sanitary. I'll see if I can find a link. I thought maybe there would be an index of shows.

 

Didn't he also say it was the worst thing he ever smelled and that the workers admitted to throwing up now and again?

 

Yeah....no go.

[hsbaby]

I just have to say how brave I think you are for even considering this!!! The closest my kids will get to a dead animal or skeleton is in a museum!!

[Heather in OK]

This thread made me chuckle. And be grateful that my children aren't the only ones who do this.

 

When we first looked at this house there was a dead bird in the back patio garden area. When we moved it, all that was left was the skeleton. My kids studied that thing like crazy!!

 

Then a dead rat-looking thing (it might have been a small mole) appeared on our porch. They took it over to the dirt and let it decompose. Then dug out the skeleton. LOL I think they checked that thing almost every day to see if it was ready.

 

Now we have a dead bird on the back patio that they are waiting on. :lol: It's actually been a neat experiment because now it is colder and not decomposing as fast. ;)

[joannqn]

Is there any specific questions I can help you with? :001_smile:

 

~AprilMayJune

 

 

So, which method of cleaning and disinfecting a skeleton do you think is the easiest for someone who has no idea what they are doing?

[Melissa in Australia]

This thread made me chuckle. And be grateful that my children aren't the only ones who do this.

 

When we first looked at this house there was a dead bird in the back patio garden area. When we moved it, all that was left was the skeleton. My kids studied that thing like crazy!!

 

Then a dead rat-looking thing (it might have been a small mole) appeared on our porch. They took it over to the dirt and let it decompose. Then dug out the skeleton. LOL I think they checked that thing almost every day to see if it was ready.

 

Now we have a dead bird on the back patio that they are waiting on. :lol: It's actually been a neat experiment because now it is colder and not decomposing as fast. ;)

 

My ds has a dead bird on his bedroom wall ! he decomposed it ( or whatever it is called) and then pinned it up. It doesn't smell or anything. He has a full mouse skeleton in a little plastic container ( it does smell a little that is why it is in the container) and he also has many snake skins (shedded ones) that he has found in his walks

[Guest AprilMayJune]

As far as the easiest goes, boiling is by far the best choice. However, you don't really want to boil; you want to simmer. If you add a little laundry detergent the meat will literally just fall off! I can't really tell you how long to simmer it; you just want to keep an eye on it... You'll be able to tell when it's getting done ;) Be very careful though! Especially with a smaller specimen (Like a bird), it is very easy to lose/dissolve bones. Not to mention, birds have hollow bones, making the risk of dissolving your smaller bones even higher! If you choose this method, I highly recommend doing it outside. Its not one of the worst smells, but you can deffinately tell something is cooking :lol:

 

If you're looking for the most educational, I would deffinately have to say that skinning, gutting, stripping the meat, and cleaning the bones by hand is an uncomparable experience. Another warning however, it is very time consuming and tedious. It requires a lot of patience and dedication to the project in order to complete.

 

For the most part, keeping it clean and sanitary is a no-brainer. My club and I have become very fond of bleach :D Obviously gloves and double-bagging for when the project goes back into the freezer. Be careful how many times the project freezes and rethaws, each time it gets a little worse (I know from experience :ack2:) You really want to try and get the majority of the skinning and gutting done in one or two sessions to avoid an unpleasent experience.

 

Hope this was of help :001_smile:

~AprilMayJune

Edited December 16, 2010 by AprilMayJune