Need Perspective on Situation

[goldberry]

My DD11 has been best friends with another girl for about 5 years (I will call her S). We are also very close with the family and spend alot of time together. A couple of weeks ago DD came to me with a confession that has been weighing on her conscience.

 

Apparently about two years ago (?!) so when she was 9, she was at the S's house and put one of her dolls in her backpack. This was a mini Bratz doll which I don't allow her to have. She hid the doll in her room. She kept thinking she would return the doll, but then time went by and she didn't know how she would return it, didn't know what to say, etc. Then eventually the doll disappeared during a cleanout by me!

 

She said she has been miserable about this, and wanted my advice on how to talk to S about it, and she wanted to give S all her allowance to make up for the doll. We talked about stealing, how it hurts people, DD went on about she doesn't know how she could have done that, how she would never think of doing it again.

 

I decided to mention it first to the mom, so she could talk to S about it a little ahead and let the initial feelings out before my DD talked to S about it. The mom said she totally understood, she stole something herself as a kid and was miserable about it, it wasn't that big of deal, she would talk to S. Later she told me she talked to S and it went ok, S was a bit hurt, but didn't want a toy to spoil their friendship.

 

Next thing you know, mom sends me an email saying they think we should come over for dinner and we could have a family meeting where my DD could talk to S about what happened. I didn't understand why she thought the whole family should be present. She said that way they could reassure my DD that they all loved her and forgived her. I felt like even if that was their intention, it would have the opposite effect. Instead of being handled between her and her friend, now she would have to sit in front of everybody. I know she would regret coming to me to confess and asking my advice, which I don't want to happen. Also, my intention in going to the mom first was never to "take over" the situation, because I thought at this age the girls should be able to communicate and deal with it. Other mom feels like everything happens "as a family" and should be dealt with "as a family".

 

Hubby and I are not comfortable putting DD in that situation. Granted DD was in the wrong. But she confessed (even when no one would have known) and we feel like it is an issue that can be handled between the two girls rather than involving the whole family. I'm not trying to discount the issue of stealing, but I also kind of feel like it is being a little blown out of proportion to what happened.

 

Am I seeing this wrong?

[HayesW]

I think I would email the mom back and let her know your DD would like to handle this one on one, but thanks for the kind offer.

[Chris in VA]

No, I think you are doing a really good job, both providing guidance and space for dd to work it out.

[NanceXToo]

It sounds like her intentions are good, and she was very nice about it. So that's a plus!

 

However, you know your daughter best, and I do understand that such a situation could be a lot more awkward than helpful (which is what the mom intends).

 

I think it's okay to write her back and say something honest and forthright like:

 

"I really appreciate your understanding and paving the way with S. You are being very nice about this and I know your intentions are nothing but the best! However, this has been very hard on DD already, and I am afraid that if I put DD in the position of having to sit down in front of your whole family to discuss this, she's going to feel extremely uncomfortable and awkward. I think she would rather just apologize/make amends to S. in person, privately, and move on from there. If she expresses concern about you knowing or being upset with her, I will tell her that you've told me you understand and are not upset with her at all! I hope this is okay with you!"

 

Something like that?

[simka2]

I think I would email the mom back and let her know your DD would like to handle this one on one, but thanks for the kind offer.

 

:iagree:Yup! I don't do public humilation!!! :tongue_smilie:

[dangermom]

I think you're doing fine, but what you have here is just two ways of working out issues. Your DD was in the wrong, so she might have to just deal with the other family's methods of doing things. You might sit down and have a talk with her about understanding different families' ways and that she might not like their way, but dealing with it bravely is part of the consequences of what she did. We get to choose what we do, but not what follows from our actions. I think she's old enough to understand that.

[goldberry]

I think I would email the mom back and let her know your DD would like to handle this one on one, but thanks for the kind offer.

 

Well, I tried that...but she is insisting they want to handle this "as a family". Normally I would go along since my DD was the one in the wrong, but I feel a little protective of DD in this situation and don't want her to feel like a criminal in front of the whole family. (She already has some self-accusation issues).

[NanceXToo]

I think you're doing fine, but what you have here is just two ways of working out issues. Your DD was in the wrong, so she might have to just deal with the other family's methods of doing things. You might sit down and have a talk with her about understanding different families' ways and that she might not like their way, but dealing with it bravely is part of the consequences of what she did. We get to choose what we do, but not what follows from our actions. I think she's old enough to understand that.

 

There's some validity to this mindset, too!

 

Well, I tried that...but she is insisting they want to handle this "as a family". Normally I would go along since my DD was the one in the wrong, but I feel a little protective of DD in this situation and don't want her to feel like a criminal in front of the whole family. (She already has some self-accusation issues).

 

In light of the quote above and the fact that you've already tried putting this woman off handling it this way, but she's still insisting- at least you can be heartened by the fact that she is telling you she wants to reassure your daughter, not condemn her in front of the whole family.

 

So in the interest of easing your daughter's conscience, AND keeping the friendship going (both between the girls AND between the families), you just might have to do it their way- but at least you can explain to your daughter something like the person above says and reassure her that they are not looking to say anything hurtful to her etc.

[simka2]

Well, I tried that...but she is insisting they want to handle this "as a family". Normally I would go along since my DD was the one in the wrong, but I feel a little protective of DD in this situation and don't want her to feel like a criminal in front of the whole family. (She already has some self-accusation issues).

 

Just wanted to point out that your dd has done enough in my book! I see no reason for the family panel. Obviously, this is for them and not for her or her friend.

 

You do not want dd to feel unprotected by you...when she took the step of coming forward and confessing. This is a great thing she did!!! I doesn't need to be blown up bigger than it really is. If you need to replace the item and have dd work for you for the cost, do that.

 

Your a great momma!!!!

[simka2]

I think you're doing fine, but what you have here is just two ways of working out issues. Your DD was in the wrong, so she might have to just deal with the other family's methods of doing things. You might sit down and have a talk with her about understanding different families' ways and that she might not like their way, but dealing with it bravely is part of the consequences of what she did. We get to choose what we do, but not what follows from our actions. I think she's old enough to understand that.

 

 

I see your point :D. My only concern is that when the mom said "no" inessence, they didn't repect her boundaires and her own parenting style. This would give me some pause as to what it is going to cost dd to get the "reassurance." Hope that made sense!

[Cindyz]

I think you're doing fine, but what you have here is just two ways of working out issues. Your DD was in the wrong, so she might have to just deal with the other family's methods of doing things. You might sit down and have a talk with her about understanding different families' ways and that she might not like their way, but dealing with it bravely is part of the consequences of what she did. We get to choose what we do, but not what follows from our actions. I think she's old enough to understand that.

 

 

:iagree:

[Remudamom]

To me, she sounds like a manipulative fruitcake. I would not subject my dd to her idea of how to handle this. Mountain out of a molehill.

[silliness7]

I think I would email the mom back and let her know your DD would like to handle this one on one, but thanks for the kind offer.

:iagree:

 

Yes, absolutely. Your dd should pay restitution and the subject should be dropped. No reason for a family meeting.

[goldberry]

I think you're doing fine, but what you have here is just two ways of working out issues. Your DD was in the wrong, so she might have to just deal with the other family's methods of doing things. You might sit down and have a talk with her about understanding different families' ways and that she might not like their way, but dealing with it bravely is part of the consequences of what she did. We get to choose what we do, but not what follows from our actions. I think she's old enough to understand that.

 

I do get that about different family styles. I'm just trying to weigh that against what the results might be.

 

Thanks for your responses! Sometimes I like to do a self-check to make sure I'm not totally missing something. You guys are awesome for that!

[JVA]

To me, she sounds like a manipulative fruitcake. I would not subject my dd to her idea of how to handle this. Mountain out of a molehill.

 

 

:iagree:

We just had a similar situation with a woman from our church and our son. She insisted on him being present while she went through a list of 'wrongs' he'd commited during the AWANA year. (Yes- this was the first time we'd heard ANYTHING about behavior problems, eventhough we inquired of her during the year how things had gone.) I never let him be present as I didn't want him humiliated and he was OUR son and she was not going to be dictating how the meeting would go. My counselor daughter, after hearing more description of this person, came up with a few labels: narcissistic, control-freak and histrionic. They may not apply to your friend, of course, but the fact that your daughter came clean with you first and is willing to reimburse her friend and apologize, is enough to fix this problem. The other mom is making too much of it by involving the entire family. Your daughter does not deserve to be humiliated for admitting her fault.

JMHO

[eternalknot]

It's not just about the OP's daughter, though. If their family culture deals with these things *as a family* then maybe the meeting has more to do with S's need to talk it out with the OP's daughter ... and S wants her family present. Maybe S has feelings of her own she's needing to work through about this, and she draws support and strength from having the family nearby.

 

In the name of your family's discomfort, you may be dismissing S's lingering feelings over the incident. She probably truly believes that it's wrong to let a toy spoil the friendship, and she probably appreciates that the OP's daughter eventually came clean. That doesn't necessarily make the hurt disappear - you know? If anything, this is what could come between and possibly damage the relationship; sad thing is that the toy would probably still end up being blamed, when that's not exactly the case.

 

Is there a middle ground? Can just the moms and girls meet at a coffee shop or something? Moral support but teaching the girls how to work this out themselves? Might the families still get together for dinner, then allow the girls to break off afterwards in a nearby room to first attempt to sort through this on their own? Maybe just being on her own ground, knowing family is in the other room would be enough for S. Do we even know that this wasn't the original plan - was it stated that this would be the dinner conversation? That'd definitely be awkward, but I think there's still room to meet each girl where they are while helping them each spread her wings a bit because both value the relationship more than they do their own discomfort. That's what relationships are all about, no? Caring enough that one's own way matters less.

[i.love.lucy]

No, I think you are doing a really good job, both providing guidance and space for dd to work it out.

:iagree:

I think you're doing fine, but what you have here is just two ways of working out issues. Your DD was in the wrong, so she might have to just deal with the other family's methods of doing things. You might sit down and have a talk with her about understanding different families' ways and that she might not like their way, but dealing with it bravely is part of the consequences of what she did. We get to choose what we do, but not what follows from our actions. I think she's old enough to understand that.

I suppose this is a good point too.

Your daughter does not deserve to be humiliated for admitting her fault.

JMHO

Ultimately, this. You have to know your own kid. This kind of "public" thing would seriously traumatize the tender spirit of my dd. I would never do that to her.

[5LittleMonkeys]

How about if you get the ball back in your court and insist that the "family forgiveness" event take place at your house. Explain to the mom of S that although you appreciate her thoughts on how to handle this you feel it is important for your dd to remain in control of seeing this through to the end.

 

I would invite S's family over for dinner, have your dd prepare a special dessert that she will present along with a brief practiced apology directed to her friend, then a brief practiced statement to everyone else about how she appreciates everyones understanding and support. Then you change the subject before anyone has to time to go on and on about it. The evening could culminate in S spending the night. I would also invite them over for late dinner so that there is less time for the subject to be brought up again. That should be the end of it. If mom of S brings it up again after that I would kindly tell her that the two girls seem to have gotten over it so as far as your concerned it is water under the bridge and not a topic worth rehashing.

 

I hope your dd can come to resolution on this soon. :D

[simka2]

It's not just about the OP's daughter, though. If their family culture deals with these things *as a family* then maybe the meeting has more to do with S's need to talk it out with the OP's daughter ... and S wants her family present. Maybe S has feelings of her own she's needing to work through about this, and she draws support and strength from having the family nearby.

 

In the name of your family's discomfort, you may be dismissing S's lingering feelings over the incident. She probably truly believes that it's wrong to let a toy spoil the friendship, and she probably appreciates that the OP's daughter eventually came clean. That doesn't necessarily make the hurt disappear - you know? If anything, this is what could come between and possibly damage the relationship; sad thing is that the toy would probably still end up being blamed, when that's not exactly the case.

 

Is there a middle ground? Can just the moms and girls meet at a coffee shop or something? Moral support but teaching the girls how to work this out themselves? Might the families still get together for dinner, then allow the girls to break off afterwards in a nearby room to first attempt to sort through this on their own? Maybe just being on her own ground, knowing family is in the other room would be enough for S. Do we even know that this wasn't the original plan - was it stated that this would be the dinner conversation? That'd definitely be awkward, but I think there's still room to meet each girl where they are while helping them each spread her wings a bit because both value the relationship more than they do their own discomfort. That's what relationships are all about, no? Caring enough that one's own way matters less.

 

Your post made me think of something. At this point, as far as we know, dd has not actually talked to "S", that is important and needs to be done. The coffee idea is great!

 

I do think the family thing is still overboard. I don't think it is as simple as the girls going into another room...as the parents wouldn't have insisted on the family gathering when the OP protested.

 

But, due to my neg. reaction to the other families way of handling these things, I forgot that the original parties had yet to talk about this, between the two of them ;).

[lynn]

To me, she sounds like a manipulative fruitcake. I would not subject my dd to her idea of how to handle this. Mountain out of a molehill.

 

 

:iagree: It was a small doll taken 5 years ago. geesh. At this point I would have dd call friend on the phone and apologize and talk it out if she needs to and let it go.

[lulubelle]

I think your daughter needs to do what she needs to do for the other girl and her family. If you didn't want to involve the whole family then she should of went straight to her friend to deal with it after she spoke to you. It seems a bit too late to take the families out of it. At least she will know what to expect and maybe feel more comfortable with the other girls family afterwards as well. It doesn't seem so bad to me.

[goldberry]

Ok, talked more and reached an agreement. The mom did want the whole family there, but we agreed that the girls will be given a few minutes alone to discuss, then we two moms would go in and confirm that everything has been worked out and that everyone feels ok.

 

We are both fine with this agreement.

 

Good grief, though, what a drama...

[Remudamom]

Ok, talked more and reached an agreement. The mom did want the whole family there, but we agreed that the girls will be given a few minutes alone to discuss, then we two moms would go in and confirm that everything has been worked out and that everyone feels ok.

 

We are both fine with this agreement.

 

Good grief, though, what a drama...

 

Good for you. I was getting worked up for your dd's sake. Sounds like to me that family has problems.

[Gooblink]

Ok, talked more and reached an agreement. The mom did want the whole family there, but we agreed that the girls will be given a few minutes alone to discuss, then we two moms would go in and confirm that everything has been worked out and that everyone feels ok.

 

We are both fine with this agreement.

 

Good grief, though, what a drama...

 

:001_smile: No kidding!

 

I'm late to this thread, but happy to see you worked it out to everyone's satisfaction. But...sheesh! I tend to share Remudamom's sentiments.

[MBM]

At some point, the mother needs to let this end and move on. Moooove on. Your daughter 'fessed up, felt bad, and offered her allowance.

 

Good grief is right.

[eternalknot]

Glad you could work out a compromise.

 

Good grief, though, what a drama...

 

11 year old girls? It's only just begun :tongue_smilie:!

 

And honestly, it's a testament to the relationship between the girls. It sounds like the mom related well when you and she first spoke, but that maybe her daughter hasn't had quite so much "life experience" to be able to write it off - small doll, or not, I still think it's more about the hurt than the actual toy. Seems mom is trying to do the same as you are - as all of us do - which is to advocate for her daughter's needs. If that's what some qualify as a manipulative fruitcake, I can guarantee she's not the only one on the table ... online personas aside.

 

If S didn't care for your daughter, she'd have found a less public way to cope with the hurt and probably would have moved on - chalking it up to a lesson learned, and earning some of that life experience that hardens some people to the point of not seeing how an 11 year old could possible feel hurt or betrayed - and maybe even embarassed - at having been deceived for more than two years by someone she trusted and cared about.

 

You're obviously raising your daughter to be the kind of person whose friendships are valuable and whose friendship is valued; the drama - while exhausting - is well worthwhile in preserving both. And again, buckle up because it's only getting started LOL.

[goldberry]

I know it seems a little overboard. The family is really great though. They just are very into "everything as a family". Example, when my DD goes over to visit, the mom doesn't like the two girls to go off in her room to play. She likes them to stay out in the main family area. She always said, "she's not just coming to visit S, she is visiting our family." Which I didn't get at first, but it helped my DD to see other points of view, and to be friendly and speaking to everyone in the family.

 

It was a little strange at first, but we had much good discussion about it. We really saw how the way we were raised made our perceptions and styles different.

 

Her family lived rural, and when she had friends visit as a kid they stayed for days and just participated in the regular routine of the family. When I had friends visit, it was always a big deal. My mom always did something special, I got to do special things with "the guest" etc.

 

There's just very different perceptions. I know she didn't mean anything bad, but I'm glad she finally listened to my reasoning.

[goldberry]

Glad you could work out a compromise.

 

 

 

11 year old girls? It's only just begun :tongue_smilie:!

 

 

Thanks for the "encouragement"! :)

[MBM]

Aha. Okay, that makes a difference then. I'm imagining a kooky, crazed mom who's upset about the doll! LOL.

[eternalknot]

imho public humiliation over something that happened years ago is not ok.

 

The incident did happen years ago, but only one party was aware of that. This is still very raw and new to the other child, and even both sets of parents.

 

Public humiliation is often frowned upon, rightly so in most cases - particularly this one. If the other family is close, though, they already know about the incident. Is the OP's daughter not going to feel as equally humiliated the next time she goes over there and faces the family, anyhow? I guess she would, like any of us would; that feeling of the tail between the legs, you know? She has to know that everyone in the other family already knows. I have a hard time believing this other family would gang up on the OP's daughter because if they were that kind of family, the families wouldn't have the close relationship they do. Humiliation is uncomfortable, but it serves a purpose. It speaks to the OP's daughter's character (that she's sincerely remorseful), and that's true regardless of the circumstances surrounding the girls' next face-to-face.

 

For all we know, the family tried to relate to the girl as the mother did to the OP - write it off as something that happens, and not worthy of making a mountain out of. That's how I read the original post, particularly the description of S's mother's initial reaction, anyhow.

[Jean in Newcastle]

 

There's just very different perceptions. I know she didn't mean anything bad, but I'm glad she finally listened to my reasoning.

 

I'm glad that she listened too. Their relationship might be in the context of the entire family but the hurt was a private one between two individuals.

[Laurie4b]

pertinent Bible verses:

 

Matt 5: 23"Therefore if you are (AF)presenting your offering at the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24leave your offering there before the altar and go; first be (AG)reconciled to your brother, and then come and present your offering.

 

Matt 18: 15 “If your brother or sister sins,[c] go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ (Note step 2 is if the person won't listen to you, take a couple witnesses. Your dd didn't even need to be confronted. Step 3 is if the person sinning won't listen to the 2-3 witnesses, then (and only then), it goes public to the church. The "family" of the person is never mentioned in this sequence, though I suppose this could be the 2 or 3 witnesses.

 

Matt 1: 18Because Joseph her husband was faithful to the law, and yet[e] did not want to expose her to public disgrace, he had in mind to divorce her quietly. (NIV)

19And Joseph her husband, being a righteous man and not wanting to disgrace her, planned [c](N)to send her away secretly. (NASB)

 

I do not think it's biblical to subject your dd to "public disgrace." The Matt 5/18 passages make it clear that the first pass at reconciliation is to be done in private.

 

If the mother wants to tell your dd privately later that she fully embraces her, that's fine. If public confession to a group is a condition of that, I would be very reluctant to put a repentant child through it. Public humiliation burns into one's soul. People often feel it years later. I don't see that this family's "culture" trumps the Bible ---since it sounds like they are Christians. I might feel differently if they weren't, or if they were from a different culture altogether in which this is the normal way to do things. But this is not normal in our culture, and it is contrary to the thrust of Scripture. If I were thinking about joining a church and this was the way they did things, I would run the other direction.

 

If the other girls wants emotional support to say that she's hurt, etc. then it would be appropriate for her mom or her dad to be with her, but not the whole family. There is something weird about that imo, because it involves shaming behavior.

Edited November 11, 2010 by Laurie4b

[Laurie4b]

Ok, talked more and reached an agreement. The mom did want the whole family there, but we agreed that the girls will be given a few minutes alone to discuss, then we two moms would go in and confirm that everything has been worked out and that everyone feels ok.

 

We are both fine with this agreement.

 

Good grief, though, what a drama...

 

This sounds much more appropriate. (Didn't read it before I posted below.)

[Alphabetika]

To me, she sounds like a manipulative fruitcake. I would not subject my dd to her idea of how to handle this. Mountain out of a molehill.

 

:iagree: Even though I wouldn't call someone a fruitcake. ;) Honestly, it was two years ago, she was nine years old, and it was a doll. A DOLL! Couldn't your dd just apologize and leave it at that? If anything further, give her friend a gift to replace the doll? Why call a meeting as if a federal crime has been committed? :confused:

[Danestress]

It sounds like she wants a family meeting so that your daughter can see that she is loved and not condemned. I am not imagining public humiliation here. I might talk to the Mom about it and just find out what she is imagining.

 

I tend to come down with those who say that when you steal things, you don't get to determine the price you pay. I would not allow my daughter to participate in this if I thought it was going to be ugly, condemning, etc. But if I trusted that this woman had common sense and loved my daughter, I would go along with it. When we sin in private, we often end up repenting in public. If you don't like how it feels for everyone to know you did something wrong, don't to something wrong. The truth is, when you steal from a child, you are also stealing form the parents. You have stolen out of their home. It's an icky feeling.

 

But it was a long time ago and your daughter should not have to live in humiliation because of it. If you think the other family is planning to be humiliating and accusing, don't do it. If you think that they are just going to say, "Okay, we acknowledge that you did that, and really, it's fine. We love you" I would.

[Mom0012]

Well, I tried that...but she is insisting they want to handle this "as a family". Normally I would go along since my DD was the one in the wrong, but I feel a little protective of DD in this situation and don't want her to feel like a criminal in front of the whole family. (She already has some self-accusation issues).

 

Oh no! Well, how important is this friendship to your daughter? She was only 9 years old when she took the doll for goodness sakes. I know I wouldn't have been able to handle a family meeting at that age and just having such a meeting is turning it into a huge big deal. I think the other mother is blowing it out of proportion and it is very odd for her to want to hold a meeting about it. I know you already said you'd rather not, but I think I'd say it a little more strongly unless you are VERY confident this will be handled well AND your daughter agrees to it.

 

My son had a similar incident with a lego minifigure and I never thought to say anything to the other mom, but he just took it back with some additional lego toys for restitution and worked it out with his friend. He was very young when he took the toy (about 5) and it bothered him for about 5 years until he finally took action. It sounds as though your daughter has a similar conscience.

 

Lisa

[Mom0012]

And now that I've read the rest of the posts, I see you've worked out something you are satisfied with. I hope it goes well.

 

Lisa

[akmommy]

To me, she sounds like a manipulative fruitcake. I would not subject my dd to her idea of how to handle this. Mountain out of a molehill.

 

:iagree: This.

It's a doll taken two years ago. Let dd apologize and offer to replace then get on with life. No need to make a big production of it.

 

Oh, and kudos to your dd for having the courage to come to you and confess.

[lisabelle]

Just throwing my two cents in here...

 

Maybe the other mom was afraid her dd couldn't be gracious and forgiving about the whole thing. Maybe she wanted to oversee her daughter's behavior.

 

Last year my ds and his best friend had a terrible fight, over something that the best friend did that *really* was unacceptably disrespectful while he was at our house. The fight carried over into school with the boys involving their other friends, saying cruel words to one another, saying they forgave each other and then 2 hours later saying never mind, I don't forgive you. It was so overwrought and dramatic. I tried to arrange for the boys to settle their differences in front of both sets of parents, figuring that if it was done in front of adults they would make better choices in the words they chose, and that once they had grownup witnesses they wouldn't renege on their agreement to forgive each other (as I said, the friend *did* do something horrible and disrespectful, but ds *was* guilty of trying to humiliate him in front of their peers after the fact).

 

It's a fine line...wanting your kids to learn how to solve their own peer problems, but feeling like they need supervision to do so productively.