One more How Would You Handle this thread.

[NanceXToo]

My 18 y/o special needs daughter is in a program where a woman is employed (through services my daughter qualifies for at no cost to me) to come and take her out once a week for 5 hours to do a social outing and work on skills and goals at the same time.

 

I pay for the meals and outing for my daughter, but not the woman's salary, I mean.

 

So anyway every Saturday since I guess the very end of August or early September, this particular woman picks my daughter up and takes her out for 5 hours. The woman is VERY nice and my daughter loves her, and she's very nice to my daughter.

 

The problem is, my daughter was consistently over spending the amount I gave her (which was between $20 and $30 a week depending on what they had planned). She'd have her meal, be able to pay for whatever outing they were doing, but then she'd tell the woman she wanted to go shopping- for lotions, hand sanitizers, school supplies she already had, used DVDs and so on.

 

And apparently the woman was letting her do this and even paying some of her own money when Melissa didn't have enough.

 

A few weeks ago the woman told me about this and said that she thought she would start working on Money as a goal with Melissa- on knowing how much you have and how much you can spend, not over spending, and maybe even trying to save a little bit for next time instead of spending down to the penny everything you have and so on.

 

I agreed that this was a great idea and that I approved of them working on that as a goal.

 

But the next week, the same thing happened. The woman told me that Melissa had spent everything and still insisted she wanted some sort of hand lotion so the woman had bought it for her.

 

While I thought that was nice of her, I didn't think she should be spending her own money on Melissa, and I was wondering "what about the goal?! you can't keep letting her do this!" So to reinforce it I told Melissa, "listen, just so you know, when you go out with so and so, not every outing is a shopping trip. You don't always need to buy THINGS. You get money for a meal and for if you need to pay a fee to get into a place, but you don't always have to buy something. And you don't always have to go somewhere that costs money, either. And you CAN'T spend more than you have!"

 

The woman is nodding along and saying "That's right" and we're both suggesting things like the library, the woman's house, a walk at the lake, walking dogs at the pet shelter and so on and trying to get across that not every week is a shopping week.

 

Yet again, I think we're in total agreement and that this won't be an issue anymore.

 

So they go out again yesterday and the plan was to go to an outdoor fall festival and then to the mall as Melissa wanted to get her nails done. I figure okay she needs money for food, and to get her nails painted, and I gave her $20.00. And I told her in advance "use that money to pay for lunch and to get your nails painted and don't try to buy anything else until AFTER you have done those things, and then IF you have enough to buy a small something, fine."

 

So the woman and Melissa return home at the scheduled time- and the woman told me that Melissa had gotten a TWENTY FIVE DOLLAR SET OF FAKE NAILS and here's the receipt and do I have an extra $5.00 on me.

 

Okay is it just me?! I was flabbergasted. I never would have approved of Melissa getting fake nails to begin with- she doesn't need those, she had perfectly nice nails of her own, she could have gotten a cheap manicure, gotten her nails painted, whatever. Instead they let her get FAKE NAILS without even asking me if that was okay- OVER SPENDING, yet again, what they were supposed to have spent, and who the heck wants to maintain those fake nails or keep paying to get them filled or dealing with how hideous they are going to look when they start falling apart or whatever?!

 

I seriously couldn't believe it.

 

I handed over the $5.00 and I told the woman outright I would not have let Melissa get fake nails for all the reasons mentioned above. And the woman was like 'Melissa! you told me blah blah blah' and I'm thinking why didn't you check with me?!

 

Then to top it all off the woman says "And the festival was my treat. But just so you know she didn't have lunch, she had some funnel cake and apple cider."

 

She'd been gone from like 10 AM until 3 PM and she'd eaten funnel cake and apple cider and gotten a $25.00 set of fake nails.

 

I know the woman knew I was displeased. The goodbye was a little bit awkward.

 

And now what? It so happens the womans' boss is supposed to be coming to my house next week for a home visit. Do I tell her about this? I don't want to get the woman in trouble but I don't feel like just me talking to her about this kind of thing has been effective (apparently).

 

Am I right to be bothered by this? Do I bring it up to the supervisor? Do I just wait and see if it happens again? Do I try yet again to talk to the woman about it first? Am I totally over-reacting? Should I be giving Melissa more money each week to begin with? (But that weekly outing isn't the only thing I give Melissa money for/spend money on pertaining to her, either).

 

If you read all the way through this long ramble- thanks. lol. I'd appreciate any feedback.

[LauraGB]

We have the same problem with one of our clients. I will give him $10 for an outing and tell him he needs to eat lunch with it, and he will come back mid afternoon with a pack of cigarettes and have bought a bottle of soda and drank several bottomless pots of coffee - no lunch. In his case, he is quite agreeable when he leaves the house about getting the lunch, but becomes too intense about spending his money his way and it's not worth the uproar for his worker to try to change his mind in a public place. Sometimes she is quietly able to, but other times it becomes too uncomfortable considering he's an adult and "should" be able to spend the money as he would like.

 

I think you should talk to the worker privately. Let her know that you give your daughter x amt of money and you want her to absolutely, positively not give her any more; if your daughter doesn't have any money for lotions, then she simply can't buy them. Let the worker know your daughter cannot afford to pay her back, so she needs to stick to the program, period.

 

Since your daughter is involved in this program, do you have annual ISP meetings to set goals and such? If so, I would definitely be sure that money management is one of the goals - on paper.

[Murphy101]

I'd absolutely speak to the supervisor.

 

And I'd start giving LESS money and being adamant that no more funds would be given to either of them for any reason.

 

Honestly it seems they both have money management issues. LOL

 

Can your dd understand that if she can't spend within her means the trips will come to an end? Harsh, but that is absolutely a life skill. Spend to much one weekend and you can't afford to go at all the next. But I don't know if your dd can understand that?

[Jean in Newcastle]

Nance - I used to have that woman's job. If I were in your place I would be very irritated and I would ask for a new person if that were possible. Her being nice and your daughter isn't enough. She's hired to teach your daughter social skills. Teaching her to take care of needs first and to buy appropriate things is a huge social skill. Also - she's misusing your money - though the money skills is a bigger issue.

[Denisemomof4]

because this has been an ongoing issue, one which talking to the woman herself hasn't given you ANY results, yes, you should talk to her supervisor. I would tell her that you really like the woman, and she's wonderful with Melissa, but that you want the money spent ONLY on lunch, and any spending for anything other than food needs to be cleared by you first. Tell the supervisor you don't want the woman spending her own money, either, that Melissa needs to learn how to stick to spending the amount you give her. Let the supervisor know you'd like the worker to help Melissa understand the value of money, and that you don't want shopping to take place every time.

[specialmama]

Nance, I would most certainly speak with the supervisor. My special needs son has similar workers, and every time an issue creeps up, I *must* deal with it, otherwise it festers and resentment sets in. I think that if this woman had the backbone, these issues would not be happening. It really doesn't matter about how nice she is: there are other nice workers out there who have a backbone to stick to the goals and actually help your daughter instead of teaching her bad habits. So don't be afraid if she gets in trouble or loses her job: that is not your concern. :grouphug:

[mcconnellboys]

I think that this woman is very kind hearted, but has no (or little) ability to set barriers and direct appropriate behavior.

 

I would set definite parameters of not one penny more than the money she has being spent. I would tell the woman when she gets there, in front of my daughter, how much she has for the day, what you think it may be used for and that not a penny more is to be used and if there's any question about it, then they are to call you and speak with you BEFORE overriding these parameters.

 

I would tell my daughter that if she can not follow the rules, she will not be able to go out with this woman any more. I believe that she does enjoy this very much, so perhaps the thought of losing it will help to curtail her spending.

 

I would definitely speak with the supervisor about it.

[Word Nerd]

This is an ongoing problem, and your efforts to resolve it with the woman are not working. I would definitely bring the matter to the supervisor's attention--not to get her in trouble but to get help addressing the issue. It doesn't sound to me that talking to the woman again one on one is going to help. You've already established boundaries and expectations, and she's not following them or standing firm when your DD pushes against them.

[NanceXToo]

Thanks so much for the responses and for reading all of that!

 

I agree, the woman is really kind-hearted, and I HATE the idea of getting her in trouble, and getting her in trouble is not my goal at all.

 

But I'm not looking for someone to take Melissa out and focus on being "nice" to her and letting her do whatever she wants, I'm looking for someone to work on goals and life skills and to help her become a responsible adult to whatever extent she is capable of becoming.

 

And I'm not feeling that the woman is accomplishing this. And being a pushover and letting her handle her money (and my money, and this woman's money) in this manner consistently isn't helping my daughter (or me)!

 

I tried talking to her in person. I feel uncomfortable with trying to do it again/have another "stricter/firmer" conversation with her, I shouldn't have to be explaining these things again and being the one to come down more firmly on her, this is her job to know this stuff, isn't it?

 

I also feel uncomfortable with talking to her supervisor and potentially getting her in trouble and perhaps having that awkwardness between us whenever she picks my daughter up...

 

blah. This stinks.

 

Is it a horrible option to just let things play out next week with a casual "Melissa has X amount of money. Remember, Melissa, you can't spend more than that!" in front of the woman and just see if something like this happens again? I mean the woman knows without a doubt that I wasn't happy with yesterday and that I would not have allowed the fake nails, so maybe she'll think twice next time and it won't happen again?

 

Of course, if something like this DID happen again I'd have no choice but to go to the supervisor.

[NanceXToo]

ETA: Oh I forgot to even mention what happened last week. They went to Hawk Mountain where they paid a trail fee to do the walk and they had a meal at a sit down restaurant. I'd given Melissa $30.00 for that and the woman (at least) had stopped Melissa from spending money in the gift shop at Hawk Mountain prior to going out to eat.

 

Then when they went out to eat, Melissa got a more expensive meal and spent the last of her money.

 

And that was when Melissa convinced the woman to take her into a Rite Aid to drop off a disposable camera with pictures she'd taken at Hawk Mountain. And talked the woman into buying her a hand lotion there.

 

Then when they got home, the woman had handed me a pick up slip for the photos and said "Oh, Melissa wanted to get these developed so we dropped them off, they will cost $10.00 (and change) and you can pick them up tomorrow."

 

And it wasn't even a place that was closest to home for me, it was a place closest to where they had eaten their lunch. The woman should have said (I thought) "Take the camera home and ask your mom when she can have them developed and where" but instead she just let Melissa do what she wanted.

 

So it's just a lot of things adding up really.

 

I hope I don't sound like I'm begrudging my daughter things she wants and needs.

 

(And isn't it fun that this whole thing with my older daughter and her worker had to come up on the same day as the whole rape conversation with my younger daughter and her friend's parents? Yeah yesterday was a fun day as far as stressful conversations go)!

[mcconnellboys]

Well, if I did that then I'd make sure to talk to Melissa before the woman comes, too, to emphasize what you expect to happen differently than in past.

 

I would tend to tell the supervisor exactly what you told us in this post and tell her you'd like to try again to handle it in this way but will let her know if it's not working.

[mcconnellboys]

Wow, Nance, I just don't think this woman has good descretion. It really sounds like, nice as she is, she has not been given appropriate training in how to deal with these kids. I really do think you need to talk to the supervisor in just the same way you've talked to us and let her know how much you like the woman and how happy your daughter is with her, but that the money issues are really becoming a problem.

 

I don't think you're begrudging your daughter anything at all. Having money to spend is nice, but we still don't just throw money away at our house and we don't encourage our children to do it, either.

 

Just last January, we were in an airport food court and my husband handed my older son a twenty dollar bill to buy lunch for himself and his brother. I was in a different line. They came to me and asked me for $5. I asked if their father had not given them enough money and when they told me he had given them $20, but they needed another $5 (for lunch!), I was incredulous. In questioning them after the fact, they'd *both* decided they had to have two huge pieces of pizza (at $5 EACH) and large drinks (at $2.50 each). The pizza was horrible and neither of them could even eat it. Twenty dollars completely wasted for nothing! And they were still hungry. We still occasionally rib them about that when talk of wasting money comes up. And the older one has been more careful since then, too, LOL.

 

I'm only telling you this story to illustrate that we don't throw money at our children either. And we don't encourage wastage of money or just spending money for the heck of it. We certainly love them and want them to have fun, be happy, etc. But it really doesn't require money to be happy. *Stuff* isn't really important. Going great places, having a great meal with a friend, those are the important things, not spending money.

[Tidbits of Learning]

ETA: Oh I forgot to even mention what happened last week. They went to Hawk Mountain where they paid a trail fee to do the walk and they had a meal at a sit down restaurant. I'd given Melissa $30.00 for that and the woman (at least) had stopped Melissa from spending money in the gift shop at Hawk Mountain prior to going out to eat.

 

Then when they went out to eat, Melissa got a more expensive meal and spent the last of her money.

 

And that was when Melissa convinced the woman to take her into a Rite Aid to drop off a disposable camera with pictures she'd taken at Hawk Mountain. And talked the woman into buying her a hand lotion there.

 

Then when they got home, the woman had handed me a pick up slip for the photos and said "Oh, Melissa wanted to get these developed so we dropped them off, they will cost $10.00 (and change) and you can pick them up tomorrow."

 

And it wasn't even a place that was closest to home for me, it was a place closest to where they had eaten their lunch. The woman should have said (I thought) "Take the camera home and ask your mom when she can have them developed and where" but instead she just let Melissa do what she wanted.

 

So it's just a lot of things adding up really.

 

I hope I don't sound like I'm begrudging my daughter things she wants and needs.

 

(And isn't it fun that this whole thing with my older daughter and her worker had to come up on the same day as the whole rape conversation with my younger daughter and her friend's parents? Yeah yesterday was a fun day as far as stressful conversations go)!

 

Is this a volunteer position or has the woman been truly trained to handle such situations? From the outside looking in, the woman seems to now be asking for money every time they (I say they b/c the woman really should say no or have her call you and have you be the one to say no) overspend. You mentioned that she had used her own money several times. She sounds like she doesn't know how to deal with telling your daughter no or maybe there have been scenes when she does say no that you aren't aware. She sounds as if she doesn't want to spend her own money any more as well. Maybe she thought the talk with you would eliminate your daughter asking for extras and wanting to spend more money? I do not know.

It sounds from reading it all that this woman is not suited for the job she has chosen. I would talk to the supervisor and explain the situation. While your daughter and the woman may get on well now, that is likely to change or has already changed given the situation with money management and saying no. I would ask the supervisor for another companion for my child and I would interview the companion and make sure that we were on the same page about money before any outing ever took place.

Is this woman closer to your age or your daughter's age? Does she have children? I think that it is safe to say that you may need a companion that is a bit more mature and is able to say no gently but firmly and redirect your daughter from spending money.

[Catwoman]

I think you need to have a direct conversation with the woman, explaining in detail what you believe her job entails, and to set some specific goals regarding what you would like your daughter to accomplish as a result of their outings together.

 

She sounds like a nice person, but she's overstepping her boundaries, and she is not helping your daughter. She's coming across to me as something like a generous aunt, and while that's lovely, it's not what she's assigned to be, nor is it the best thing for your dd. She's teaching your dd that it's ok to be irresponsible with her money and to mooch off of others. She is teaching her that if you lie with a smile, people will believe you and give you money (or let you get fake nails) with no real consequences.

 

Realistically, as soon as she heard that what your dd lied to her and said you'd be ok with something that she knew you wouldn't, the woman should have immediately called her on it -- in a strict way -- and made it very clear that it was not acceptable, and that because a trust had been violated, she would now call you and verify every purchase, until your dd proved that she was trustworthy.

 

I know you don't want a confrontation with the woman, but before reporting her to her supervisor, you really should think about sitting down with her -- maybe meet for coffee somewhere out of the house -- and laying out your expectations and frustrations. You can do it nicely, and without accusation, if you start by saying that you're concerned about your dd and that perhaps you haven't been clear enough about things in the past. It sounds like the woman has a good heart, but she needs to be stronger about saying no to your dd. If she can't handle that, she's the wrong person for the job, but maybe if you're really clear with her about what you need her to do (possibly with a written page of goals,) she may work out very well in the end.

 

I don't think I'd rat her out to the supervisor before I had a long talk with her, to gauge her attitude about the whole situation. Your dd clearly likes this woman, and there's no guarantee that she'd like another person that was hired to replace her, so I think it's worth trying to work things out with her before you report her.

 

Perhaps you can meet with the woman before your meeting with the supervisor. Let her know that you have some concerns that you'd prefer to address with her, rather than with her boss, because you're sure you can work things out together. That way, she'll know you're serious, and you'll have a better indication as to whether or not her situation with your dd will change, or if it seems like this woman's ideas are just too different from your own.

 

Good luck with it -- I'm sure everything will work out!

 

Cat

[NanceXToo]

Is this a volunteer position or has the woman been truly trained to handle such situations? From the outside looking in, the woman seems to now be asking for money every time they (I say they b/c the woman really should say no or have her call you and have you be the one to say no) overspend. You mentioned that she had used her own money several times. She sounds like she doesn't know how to deal with telling your daughter no or maybe there have been scenes when she does say no that you aren't aware. She sounds as if she doesn't want to spend her own money any more as well. Maybe she thought the talk with you would eliminate your daughter asking for extras and wanting to spend more money? I do not know.

It sounds from reading it all that this woman is not suited for the job she has chosen. I would talk to the supervisor and explain the situation. While your daughter and the woman may get on well now, that is likely to change or has already changed given the situation with money management and saying no. I would ask the supervisor for another companion for my child and I would interview the companion and make sure that we were on the same page about money before any outing ever took place.

Is this woman closer to your age or your daughter's age? Does she have children? I think that it is safe to say that you may need a companion that is a bit more mature and is able to say no gently but firmly and redirect your daughter from spending money.

 

Hi,

Thanks for your thoughts! This woman is not a volunteer, she is being paid to do this. There's an organization through which I get services for my daughter, and we have a- hm I guess it's a case manager? And she was the one who called me to say, "okay we have a woman named so and so who is available to work with your daughter on this day of the week", so they set up that first meeting for us, and from there, the woman and I deal directly with each other.

 

But I'm still in touch with the case manager once a month to discuss how things are going, and next week is that time.

 

So I guess I ASSUMED she had some sort of training but the truth is, I have no idea whatsoever what kind of training she has had.

 

I don't know this woman's age but she seems to be older than me, I'm guessing 40's. I know she has a 14 y/o daughter (not sure if she has any other kids).

 

But you're right. It seems like she has a really hard time saying no. And knowing my daughter, it's definitely NOT that she's throwing any sort of fit or being demanding or nagging or anything like that. She might ask, but she wouldn't do those other things. I think the woman just wants to be nice to her to the point of not saying no, which leads me to believe that you're right that she might not have the proper training for this kind of job.

[NanceXToo]

I She is teaching her that if you lie with a smile, people will believe you and give you money (or let you get fake nails) with no real consequences.

 

Realistically, as soon as she heard that what your dd lied to her and said you'd be ok with something that she knew you wouldn't, the woman should have immediately called her on it...

 

I do want to just say that I'm not sure I would call this lying... when my daughter said she wanted her nails done I assumed that meant nailpolish, maybe a manicure. I never specifically said "no fake nails." They never specifically came up.

 

I think that when they were at the salon and my daughter asked for them, the woman should have said:

 

1) No, Melissa, you don't have enough money for that. You can get your nails painted. And that should have been that.

 

Or at the very least 2) I'm not sure your mom would want you to get fake nails. We need to call her and ask her first. (ESPECIALLY knowing they cost more than Melissa had, but even more to the point, that they also require maintenance and more money thrown at them).

 

I think probably Melissa said "I want fake nails," and the woman said "Oh, I don't know if you're allowed to have those...." and my daughter said "yes I am!" or "my mom doesn't care!" having no idea whether or not I would, only knowing I told her she could get her nails done.

 

(I don't even know if she's capable of thinking that many steps ahead as to what I would say when she got home).

 

But the worker SHOULD have been! Apparently she decided to take a special needs teen at her word on something like that instead of checking in with the parent because she wants to be, like you said, as 'the generous aunt' or something- when that's not her role, and kind hearted as it may be, it's not really all that helpful when all is said and done.

[Corraleno]

I don't see how a teacher can be effective if she can't bring herself to ever say no or correct Melissa. Maybe she's afraid Melissa will be mad at her, or won't like her anymore? Whatever the reason, she's not doing her job. The fact that she's really nice, while not doing her job, doesn't change that. It sounds like the three of you are caught in a cycle of too-niceness: this woman doesn't want to do or say anything that will upset Melissa, and you don't want to do or say anything that will upset this woman. ;)

 

Personally I would talk to the case manager, but if you don't want to do that, can you give them a written list of what expenses are allowed and make it a rule that whenever Melissa wants to spend money on something that's not on the list (or wants to spend more money than was approved, on an item that is on the list), then she has to call you. That way, you can be the one telling Melissa no, and the woman doesn't have to be the heavy.

 

Unfortunately, that means that you would end up doing her job for her, which isn't fair. But if you don't really want to confront her, or speak to her supervisor, and the many conversations you've had so far have not convinced her to do her job, then maybe this would be a workable compromise.

 

Jackie

[JFSinIL]

Your dd may be special needs, but she is still an adult, and the woman may not be comfortable telling an adult what they can spend money on. (My son with autism is 19 now so I am not just coming out of left field here ;-) While we who have guardianship of our adult kids with disabilities andcan override the desires of the disabled adult, another person, like this worker, may not feel comfortable doing so, or even allowed to do so.

 

I would ask the caseworker for a meeting with the her, the woman, and your daughter (and you of course) to hash things out.

 

The next time your dd overspends, if possible take her back to the store and make her return the item and give the cash back to the woman (if she paid for it). Otherwise the following week say "Oops, we need to repay so-an-so $5 so that is $15 you have to spend this week, not $20" It may take a while, but maybe consequences like this will help.

 

(I am trying not to feel jealous that you get a worker to take your dd out at all - nothing like that here in Illinois for most disabled folks.)

[Mom0012]

ETA: Oh I forgot to even mention what happened last week. They went to Hawk Mountain where they paid a trail fee to do the walk and they had a meal at a sit down restaurant. I'd given Melissa $30.00 for that and the woman (at least) had stopped Melissa from spending money in the gift shop at Hawk Mountain prior to going out to eat.

 

Then when they went out to eat, Melissa got a more expensive meal and spent the last of her money.

 

And that was when Melissa convinced the woman to take her into a Rite Aid to drop off a disposable camera with pictures she'd taken at Hawk Mountain. And talked the woman into buying her a hand lotion there.

 

Then when they got home, the woman had handed me a pick up slip for the photos and said "Oh, Melissa wanted to get these developed so we dropped them off, they will cost $10.00 (and change) and you can pick them up tomorrow."

 

And it wasn't even a place that was closest to home for me, it was a place closest to where they had eaten their lunch. The woman should have said (I thought) "Take the camera home and ask your mom when she can have them developed and where" but instead she just let Melissa do what she wanted.So it's just a lot of things adding up really.

 

I hope I don't sound like I'm begrudging my daughter things she wants and needs.

 

(And isn't it fun that this whole thing with my older daughter and her worker had to come up on the same day as the whole rape conversation with my younger daughter and her friend's parents? Yeah yesterday was a fun day as far as stressful conversations go)!

 

In this case, I would give Melissa the regular amount of money I usually gave her the following week when the woman comes to pick her up and have them go and get the film and use her money for that day to pay for the photos.

 

Lisa

[LauraGB]

Your dd may be special needs, but she is still an adult, and the woman may not be comfortable telling an adult what they can spend money on. (My son with autism is 19 now so I am not just coming out of left field here ;-) While we who have guardianship of our adult kids with disabilities andcan override the desires of the disabled adult, another person, like this worker, may not feel comfortable doing so, or even allowed to do so.

 

 

Yes. This. I don't know how it is in PA, but in my state, a worker denying a disabled adult what they want enters into that gray area of stepping on the "clients rights" regardless of guardianship. It's a pc, legal mess and it's a tricky song and dance. These workers almost have to be masters of manipulation to change the client's mind, because if they aren't, it turns into a client rights issue, which is sad, but true.

Edited October 17, 2010 by LauraGB
wrong state!

[NanceXToo]

Yes. This. I don't know how it is in PA, but in my state, a worker denying a disabled adult what they want enters into that gray area of stepping on the "clients rights" regardless of guardianship. It's a pc, legal mess and it's a tricky song and dance. These workers almost have to be masters of manipulation to change the client's mind, because if they aren't, it turns into a client rights issue, which is sad, but true.

 

Hmm. I hadn't thought about it that way to be honest.

 

But after thinking about it some just now, it seems that when a main reason for this person taking the disabled adult out to begin with is to work on life skills, and one of those life skills decided upon to work on is money (and how to properly manage it), and the worker and the parent/guardian have discussed this, and then the worker consistently continues to not only let but HELP the disabled adult mismanage money... surely that can't be right?! (Nor can kicking in your own money to help the disabled adult pay for something they can't afford). I can't see how that could fall into an area of stepping on the client's rights. But maybe this is something that I should ask the caseworker/supervisor about.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Nance, I think it would be good to speak with the supervisor. First, she may have some GREAT ideas on how to help your daughter. Additionally, she can help set up the ground rules with this woman.

 

My first thought is that your daughter gets a strict budget and NO overages. And I'd let the woman know you are no longer giving more money than you originally give your daughter, that the goal is for Melissa to learn how to handle that money on outings so giving into her is hurting her, not "being nice."

 

I'm a little concerned with how well she's working on other goals with her if she's struggling so much with this one. If she wants Melissa to like her so much she can't tell her no or if Melissa is so capable of manipulating her, then she may not be the best person to work with Melissa...she may not be able to effectively work on goals with her. I'd hate that to be the case as they seem to get along well.

 

ETA: Oh, I definitely can see how it could be an issue of client rights in terms of what Melissa does with the money she IS given. I can't imagine how it's a client's right to get money from someone working with her though. It is more than reasonable in all sorts of ways for her to refuse to give Melissa whatever she wants when it means taking HER (the worker's) money.

 

ETA2: I wonder....You mentioned your daughter's levels the other day. I wonder... maybe you could also make this a "discipline" issue with her. Now, obviously this needs to be on a different level than I would do with a 7yo, but all sorts of spouses answer to one another for accountability (oh my, we'd be living under a bridge if hubby and I didn't help each other!).

Edited October 17, 2010 by 2J5M9K

[Harriet Vane]

because this has been an ongoing issue, one which talking to the woman herself hasn't given you ANY results, yes, you should talk to her supervisor. I would tell her that you really like the woman, and she's wonderful with Melissa, but that you want the money spent ONLY on lunch, and any spending for anything other than food needs to be cleared by you first. Tell the supervisor you don't want the woman spending her own money, either, that Melissa needs to learn how to stick to spending the amount you give her. Let the supervisor know you'd like the worker to help Melissa understand the value of money, and that you don't want shopping to take place every time.

 

:iagree:

[LauraGB]

Hmm. I hadn't thought about it that way to be honest.

 

But after thinking about it some just now, it seems that when a main reason for this person taking the disabled adult out to begin with is to work on life skills, and one of those life skills decided upon to work on is money (and how to properly manage it), and the worker and the parent/guardian have discussed this, and then the worker consistently continues to not only let but HELP the disabled adult mismanage money... surely that can't be right?! (Nor can kicking in your own money to help the disabled adult pay for something they can't afford). I can't see how that could fall into an area of stepping on the client's rights. But maybe this is something that I should ask the caseworker/supervisor about.

 

I completely agree with you - that's what makes it such a sticky mess.

 

To show you the extent these "client rights" issues go - if a client was an alcoholic, drank himself into a vomiting fit by noon everyday, passed out, then started again promptly upon waking, whoever was in charge wouldn't be able to make him stop. Sure, they don't have to give him a ride to the liquor store or give him money, but they couldn't hide his liquor or control his money - it's his human right to do with his body and his money what he would like.

 

Make sense? Not at all. It's positively ridiculous. But that's what caregivers and activity assistants and the like are up against. Those of us who know the ramifications of "doing the right thing" get really good at manipulation over the years. Granted, that's not at all the situation you are dealing with, but your family is only one that the workers deal with (you'd be surprised what they have to deal with!). Now that your daughter is an adult, the dynamic will change some, but ultimately YOU still get to make executive decisions about her cares. A talk with her case manager is a pretty good idea.

 

Anyway, it is okay to request another worker. It is also okay to talk once again to the worker (I'll bet she wants you to). Don't be afraid to do those things - you are her guardian (I'm assuming) and her advocate; they expect it from you.

 

:grouphug:, btw. Because I know how frustrating it is.

 

ETA - I just had another thought about this. As her guardian (again, I'm assuming here that you still are), you would be the only one to file a grievance on her behalf. Perhaps explaining to the assistant that you aren't planning that when she sticks to the money management plan - possibly she's afraid that if she upsets your daughter and your daughter tells you, that you'll be upset and file a grievance. I don't know, but it is a definite possibility.

Edited October 17, 2010 by LauraGB

[tex-mex]

(Speaking as a former schoolteacher -- and I used to work p/t as a Special Ed Aide once "retired" from teaching.)

 

Honestly? That woman is allowing your dd to walk all over her. She needs to set limits and tell her the money spending is INAPPROPRIATE. Why are the trips to malls anyway??? A trip to the park or library would be better. Or learning how to navigate the bus or subway system. Or learning how to deposit the money IN THE BANK. Or you go off for an errand and the aide teaches dd how to cook/bake using a simple recipe in your kitchen. Or how to do laundry. You get the idea. The goal is life skills.

 

Tell the supervisor ASAP. She needs to be reprimanded. And your dd needs a better aide who can set boundaries. One other idea is perhaps you dd is being TOO insistent with spending money -- as she equates it with friendship or the outing. Bad habit. Nip that in the bud.

[tex-mex]

Nance - I used to have that woman's job. If I were in your place I would be very irritated and I would ask for a new person if that were possible. Her being nice and your daughter isn't enough. She's hired to teach your daughter social skills. Teaching her to take care of needs first and to buy appropriate things is a huge social skill. Also - she's misusing your money - though the money skills is a bigger issue.

:iagree: I also was in that same job too. If I tried to pull one of those $$$ actions on my employer -- I'd be fired. Toot suite. Plus, there needs to be on paper (IEP Goals) the purpose of the trip -- spelled out for the aide to follow. She cannot be making up trips. Focus on life skills.

[Mrs Mungo]

Yes. This. I don't know how it is in PA, but in my state, a worker denying a disabled adult what they want enters into that gray area of stepping on the "clients rights" regardless of guardianship. It's a pc, legal mess and it's a tricky song and dance. These workers almost have to be masters of manipulation to change the client's mind, because if they aren't, it turns into a client rights issue, which is sad, but true.

 

I could see this when it comes to eating a funnel cake v. buying real food. However, when it comes to the woman driving her to the store and dropping off her film? Or giving her extra money? That is facilitating the bad decisions, not just allowing them.

 

I think you can speak to the supervisor about it without an air of ratting her out. It's a performance issue that should be addressed. That is how employees learn to be better at their job.

[Denisemomof4]

Thanks so much for the responses and for reading all of that!

 

I agree, the woman is really kind-hearted, and I HATE the idea of getting her in trouble, and getting her in trouble is not my goal at all.

 

But I'm not looking for someone to take Melissa out and focus on being "nice" to her and letting her do whatever she wants, I'm looking for someone to work on goals and life skills and to help her become a responsible adult to whatever extent she is capable of becoming.

 

And I'm not feeling that the woman is accomplishing this. And being a pushover and letting her handle her money (and my money, and this woman's money) in this manner consistently isn't helping my daughter (or me)!

 

I tried talking to her in person. I feel uncomfortable with trying to do it again/have another "stricter/firmer" conversation with her, I shouldn't have to be explaining these things again and being the one to come down more firmly on her, this is her job to know this stuff, isn't it?

 

I also feel uncomfortable with talking to her supervisor and potentially getting her in trouble and perhaps having that awkwardness between us whenever she picks my daughter up...

 

blah. This stinks.

 

Is it a horrible option to just let things play out next week with a casual "Melissa has X amount of money. Remember, Melissa, you can't spend more than that!" in front of the woman and just see if something like this happens again? I mean the woman knows without a doubt that I wasn't happy with yesterday and that I would not have allowed the fake nails, so maybe she'll think twice next time and it won't happen again?

 

Of course, if something like this DID happen again I'd have no choice but to go to the supervisor.

 

If you want to give her one more chance, I'd say something like, "I really need you to stick to the budget and show Melissa how to do the same. I need your help so she can understand she has X amount of money and can spend NO more than that. Today she will have X, and I want this to cover her food ONLY. You can do something that doesn't cost money after lunch."

 

Trust me - I *KNOW* how hard this is. I had workers in the house to help care for my mother so I could be somewhat of a mom and wife to my family. It was SO HARD. The people whom I knew personally took advantage of me being too nice. And I became too friendly with the other regular help and they, also, took advantage of me. I'd be working my butt off cleaning the house and they'd be sitting down doing nothing. I was too tired to have to deal with it, I *NEVER* wanted to be a boss! But dh got angry and he had a talk with several of the workers. They were much better after that but it still made me feel awful. One of my closest friends, a nurse who checked in on me and mom regularly, also got upset over the situation, and she was a nurse that worked in the field!

 

This woman is nice, yes, but she is there to do a job. If she can't do it, or if she's not disciplined enough to do it, you're not helping your daughter; you're simply paying for her to have a friend. (I'm sorry, that probably sounds harsh! But I was starting to feel like my "friends" were taking advantage of me. I know I wouldn't have sat on my tush while my "boss" worked her tail off!!! These were not close friends, but it still irked me to no end!)

[NanceXToo]

Well- I think this (might have) resolved itself!

 

The woman called me today, for two reasons. First she wanted to find out if it would be okay to switch days next weekend. And second, she said she wanted to apologize for yesterday.

 

She said Melissa had led her to believe that she had the $20.00 I gave her for the outing PLUS change left from when she'd gone out to the amusement park with a friend the night before (which wasn't the case). And that Melissa has gotten fake nails before (which she hasn't) and that I knew that was what she meant when they talked about going to get nails done.

 

This led to a conversation that touched on many of the things said in this thread and, I think, a clear understanding of what should happen from this point on (and what shouldn't), and the call ended on a positive note.

 

So I am going to let go of the idea of speaking with the supervisor for now and just see how things go. I hope that this won't be an issue anymore.

 

But if it is, then I know what my next step will have to be. For now though I think that we've reached a satisfactory agreement between ourselves and I just have to see if she follows through.

 

Thanks for your help, all :)

[amey311]

Would you consider postponing the meeting with the supervisor until after the next outing? It seems like this recent phone call is more of the glad-handing you've been getting from Melissa's escort every other week.

 

While she tells you it won't happen again, what if you meet with the supervisor and say everything's going well and then have another week of Melissa overspending? Will you call the supervisor and explain your problem then, or wait until next month?

 

Have you brainstormed a list of free places to go? Is it an option for Melissa's escort to simply bring her home early if she exhausts her allowance earlier in the day? I think, if nothing else, maybe that needs to be outlined to Melissa and her escort. If she has $20 for the day and spends that on lunch and dessert at Chilis (or whatever), that means she then has 2 options: go home, or go to one of the free options you've discussed. If they do a free thing, when they're done the choices again are "free activity" or "go home." And so on.

 

Would Melissa be able to retain a lesson on restaurant dining and basic (VERY) budgeting? For example: if she has $20 for the day and wants to go out to lunch, could she decide now that she wants to get hand lotion while she's out (if prompted by her escort) and then have the escort help her with round numbers in working backwards to determine her lunch budget? I'm picturing something like "Lotion will be $5, so that will leave you $15 for lunch and then we won't be able to do anything else. Your drink will be $2, so that leaves $13. You'll need $3 for tip and tax, so you'll have $10 for your food." I would understand if this is too much verbally, but what about on paper? Would it help to get some take out menus with prices to help Melissa see how meals can add up?

 

And remember: Melissa is supposed to be learning something as part of these visits and right now she's learning she can overspend and someone else will take care of it. Even if she'll never be able to manage her money completely herself, this is not something that's helping her become a productive member of society. KWIM?

[Catwoman]

Nance, I'm glad to hear you were able to speak with the woman about your concerns. It seems pretty obvious that she was anxious to speak with you, as well, because she already phoned you. I know she said she wanted to switch days next weekend, but I suspect that the change of days might have been more of an excuse to call you. I'm sure she knew you were upset about yesterday and wanted to straighten things out, which is a very good sign.

 

I think the woman needs to give you a call every time your dd asks for something that seems even slightly questionable, as it sounds like she did take the time to question your dd about the fake nails and how she would pay for them, and your dd was either less than truthful, or she misunderstood your intentions about the manicure. (Unless of course, the woman is stretching the truth about what your dd told her -- I don't know either one of them, so I can't even guess who is telling the whole truth.)

 

I think it's a good idea to wait to speak with the supervisor, as the woman clearly wants to rectify the situation and I think it's only fair to give her a chance to prove herself.

 

I'm glad you are feeling better about this, as I know how uncomfortable it can be, to know you have to confront a nice person about a negative situation. Hopefully, everything will work out!

 

Cat