What if you were told that duriing a 2-child sleepover they'd both had a nightmare

[CalicoKat]

1. and went to the single, divorced father's bed and climbed n for the rest of the night ?

 

2. if you didn't know, but were told after the fact, that this dad has been investigated several times for sexual child abuse. Nothing was substantiated but this dad didn't get physical custody of his child but was allowed unsupervised time with his child.

 

3. that this has happend more than once.

 

4. And that a report was filed but CPS isn't going to act on it because there isn't enough allegations.

 

the child is 7 years old.

 

No this isn't Michael Jackson.

 

What you do?

[Remudamom]

Well, in the first place we never did sleepovers except with one other family, who was like family.

 

In the second place, we never would have allowed a sleepover with a family with a divorced father.

 

Castration.

[Parrothead]

I don't let my child do a spend the night there.

[aggieamy]

Wow. That's a tough one. I like to give people the benefit of doubt but in that case, if it had been my child, I would not allow anymore sleepovers. If the kids wanted to play it would be at my house and under my supervision.

 

I'd probably also have a casual conversation with my child on not keeping secrets from mommy and daddy and on touching.

 

ETA: I'm in no way against divorced or single dads. In fact I married a divorced father. But I also feel that it's better to be safe than sorry. The only sleepovers we do is with family only and to protect DH I wouldn't put him in a situation where he'd be alone with kids that weren't family for long periods of time.

Edited September 30, 2010 by aggieamy

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

No way would my child ever be sleeping over at that house.

[AuntieM]

Ack! I think I'd try to stay very, very calm and arrange to have a professional counselor speak with my child, to try to determine if any molestation had taken place.

 

Depending on that outcome, I'd seek the authorities and pursue the route to get this guy in a place where he can't victimize anyone else.

 

Oh yeah, I'd also have to try to keep my dh from... what's the new term?... going Bus-Dad on that guy.

 

My response if from the perspective of being the parent of one of the guests. If I were not the parent, I'd be paying a visit to the parents of the guests to share with them what's up. Of course, it would depend on the reliability of your source of information.

 

eta Oh, forgot that CPS is choosing not to act. I might have to pursue other channels (local legislator, others). You can bet if my kid was involved, there would be more than a call to CPS. There would be a police report.

Edited September 30, 2010 by AuntieM

[Ravin]

I'd probably watch my child for any sign of behavior that might indicate something untoward had happened. I probably wouldn't allow any more sleepovers at that house.

 

That's pretty much it.

[i.love.lucy]

Is it your child? If so, I think the only thing you can do is try to find out if something happened, and certainly make sure they never ever go there again.

 

If it's not your child, I'm not sure what you can do? Advise the parents of what you know perhaps. But it doesn't sound like there was anything inappropriate reported (I mean, other than the fact that this single man should not have allowed a sleepover nor the children climbing in bed with him if he wanted to be above reproach!) or I assume you would have mentioned it. That would put this thread on a whole different path.

 

Do you know this man? Is it possible he didn't know they were climbing in bed with him? My son has done it and I didn't even know until morning.:confused:

[Aunty Social]

I'll probably be in the minority, but I wouldn't do anything. Some background....

 

My brother's evilly psychotic (and I don't say that lightly or jokingly) ex wife has had him investigated several times for child/sexual abuse. Every time, he has been cleared - but those investigations will still show up. He doesn't have custody because the judges where he lives always give the children to the mother unless there is gross abuse/negligence found. Finally, after years of this, and of her putting my nephew and niece through all kinds of invasive, unnecessary examinations, CPS has started investigating her for abuse, and my brother might (big might because of judges' prejudices for mothers) finally get custody.

 

Yet, from an outsider's view, his situation looks exactly like the one you just described. Unless you have more information, or are intimately acquainted with the family, I would not automatically assume that there is cause to worry.

 

ETA: I don't have blinders on because he's my brother - he's got warts, just not of the violent or child molestation kind.

Edited September 30, 2010 by Aunty Social
clarify

[ThatCyndiGirl]

What CAN you do if your child isn't involved? I mean, if CPS won't do anything? Tell the police?

 

It is horribly disturbing, so don't misunderstand me. It sounds disgusting and not at all normal.

[aggieamy]

Is it your child? If so, I think the only thing you can do is try to find out if something happened, and certainly make sure they never ever go there again.

 

If it's not your child, I'm not sure what you can do? Advise the parents of what you know perhaps. But it doesn't sound like there was anything inappropriate reported (I mean, other than the fact that this single man should not have allowed a sleepover nor the children climbing in bed with him if he wanted to be above reproach!) or I assume you would have mentioned it. That would put this thread on a whole different path.

 

Do you know this man? Is it possible he didn't know they were climbing in bed with him? My son has done it and I didn't even know until morning.:confused:

 

I've got a "climb in bed at night ninja" too. Sometimes I'll wake up and just have this odd feeling of something being off and sure enough there she is curled under the covers on the far side of the bed from DH and I. :001_huh:

 

I am in complete agreement that the man should have made his actions above reproach (perfect phrase!). If he's been investigated for false sexual abuse charges then I can't imagine he wouldn't be super careful to not allow himself in that situation again.

[Teachin'Mine]

Well, in the first place we never did sleepovers except with one other family, who was like family.

 

In the second place, we never would have allowed a sleepover with a family with a divorced father.

 

Castration.

 

:iagree: with all 3 points. I would also strongly suggest that the parents of the child who slept over speak with the child - maybe get a book on appropriate vs inappropriate touching and all, and see if it leads to any discussion. I would do whatever I needed to do to keep both those children safe from him in the future. What was a 7 yo doing on a sleepover with him???? :confused:

[CalicoKat]

Is it your child? If so, I think the only thing you can do is try to find out if something happened, and certainly make sure they never ever go there again.

 

If it's not your child, I'm not sure what you can do? Advise the parents of what you know perhaps. But it doesn't sound like there was anything inappropriate reported (I mean, other than the fact that this single man should not have allowed a sleepover nor the children climbing in bed with him if he wanted to be above reproach!) or I assume you would have mentioned it. That would put this thread on a whole different path.

 

Do you know this man? Is it possible he didn't know they were climbing in bed with him? My son has done it and I didn't even know until morning.:confused:

Not my child. We don't allow sleepovers either, so it would never be my child.

 

Yes I do know the family. But I do not know the guest's family.

 

I dont' think that the sleep over guest's parents even know. The divorced mom has been advised by her lawyer and case worker to have the other person who overheard the child's conversation where this was reported to file the report with CPS so that the the parenting coordinator and case worker can remain neutral. In the past when a report was made the father made sure new ones were assigned.

 

So does that child's parents know?

[CalicoKat]

:iagree: with all 3 points. I would also strongly suggest that the parents of the child who slept over speak with the child - maybe get a book on appropriate vs inappropriate touching and all' date=' and see if it leads to any discussion. I would do whatever I needed to do to keep both those children safe from him in the future. What was a 7 yo doing on a sleepover with him???? :confused:[/quote']

:crying: I don't know.

[AuntieM]

Not my child. We don't allow sleepovers either, so it would never be my child.

 

Yes I do know the family. But I do not know the guest's family.

 

I dont' think that the sleep over guest's parents even know. The divorced mom has been advised by her lawyer and case worker to have the other person who overheard the child's conversation where this was reported to file the report with CPS so that the the parenting coordinator and case worker can remain neutral. In the past when a report was made the father made sure new ones were assigned.

 

So does that child's parents know?

 

Okaaaaayyy...

 

So, are these your basic options?

 

1 - Say nothing, possibly exposing the guest child to abuse (in the past or future) with no intervention.

 

2 - Speaking to the parents of the child guest, which may result in you looking foolish, possibly be guilty of false accusations, get the sleepover dad mad at you.

 

Tough call. If I had to stand guilty for one set of circumstances, I'd choose the latter if it meant protecting the kid. A lot depends on whether or not you have any relationship with the guest kid's parents.

 

What of the divorced wife? Could she be contacted and perhaps speak to the guest kid's family? Seems like something her lawyer could use on her behalf. If I knew my ex was likely to abuse, I wouldn't want my child over there at night, I'd want 100% supervised visitations.

[cin]

I'd not make a big deal of it either. From experience (not mine, but a dear, dear friend I went to college with, honest!) She was messed with, slightly (her words, not mine) as a child. The family found out, made a HUGE deal of it, counselors etc. Turns out she was young enough that she really had no idea that what he did was wrong. But the HUGE production that was made caused her feel guilt, etc. She said that to this day (and this was as seniors in college) she thinks that if her parents had just let it go she probably would not be 'scarred' like she is now. She seriously doubts if she would even have remembered it.

 

Another reason I would not make a big deal about it...Built on the pp who said the ex wife was psycho, the man may have very innocently, just as most parents would do, let the children get into be with him. I could see my DH doing that, but he's wise enough to NOT have a sleepover when home alone. He's also not divorced and trying to 'win points' with his kids.

 

In addition, as a divorced father trying to win points, he may have let them watch a scary movie. OK, that could just be a man thing. My DH has much less of a filter when it comes to movies with the girls, than I do.

 

Alll that said, if I heard suspicious stories repeatedly, I would get VERY upset, heck, if I heard one more suspicious thing I would. *I* would also not let my daughter spend the night there. It could very easily be a man who is just not as smart as he should be (and who was semi awake at 2AM and didn't make a wise choice, like many of us would be at 2AM!)

[Impish]

I'm guessing if there is a CPS report, the child's parents would be informed.

 

On another thought...Would people be suspicious if this was a single Mom that allowed children to crawl in bed with her?

[CalicoKat]

I'm guessing if there is a CPS report, the child's parents would be informed.

 

On another thought...Would people be suspicious if this was a single Mom that allowed children to crawl in bed with her?

 

If she had no records of investigation for child abuse, probably not.

 

If there have veen several investigations, yes.

[Impish]

The information is coming from the ex-wife? I'm not clear on how this all came about.

[Gooblink]

I'm guessing if there is a CPS report, the child's parents would be informed.

 

On another thought...Would people be suspicious if this was a single Mom that allowed children to crawl in bed with her?

 

 

I think that would be pretty creepy, too.

 

If the kids are scared, let 'em spread their sleeping bags on the floor in the room or take a blanket and pillow to the floor where they're sleeping. Allowing this "crawling into bed" with someone other than a parent is inviting trouble.

[aggieamy]

I think that would be pretty creepy, too.

 

If the kids are scared, let 'em spread their sleeping bags on the floor in the room or take a blanket and pillow to the floor where they're sleeping. Allowing this "crawling into bed" with someone other than a parent is inviting trouble.

 

Agreed!

 

Although now that I think about it my niece and nephew (1 yo) sometimes come crawl in bed with DH and I in the morning when they spend the night. I have never thought anything about it before now but I supose I should make sure my sister isn't bothered by that. Can't imagine she would be, I wouldn't mind my daughter climbing in bed with her aunt and uncle in the morning. Interesting discussion.

[CalicoKat]

The information is coming from the ex-wife? I'm not clear on how this all came about.

The wife invited a colleague over for dinner. And the little girl proceeded to talk about her recent overnight at her dad's house over the weekend.

 

The wife and I are friends, but I wasn't the one who heard the her daughter's conversation.

[CalicoKat]

Agreed!

 

Although now that I think about it my niece and nephew (1 yo) sometimes come crawl in bed with DH and I in the morning when they spend the night. I have never thought anything about it before now but I supose I should make sure my sister isn't bothered by that. Can't imagine she would be, I wouldn't mind my daughter climbing in bed with her aunt and uncle in the morning. Interesting discussion.

The other little girl is not a relative. She's a school chum.

[Mom0012]

I am in complete agreement that the man should have made his actions above reproach (perfect phrase!). If he's been investigated for false sexual abuse charges then I can't imagine he wouldn't be super careful to not allow himself in that situation again.

 

:iagree: This is what would really make me question the guy. If he's already been investigated, you'd think he'd be super careful unless he was simply unable to control himself.

 

Lisa

[JenC3]

I think that would be pretty creepy, too.

 

If the kids are scared, let 'em spread their sleeping bags on the floor in the room or take a blanket and pillow to the floor where they're sleeping. Allowing this "crawling into bed" with someone other than a parent is inviting trouble.

 

:iagree: No problem with camping out on the floor, but no way would my dh let one of our dd's friends sleep in the bed with him (if we were divorced which would never happen). He's too paranoid about inappropriateness. Men are wrongly accused all the time. why would this Dad who HAS been accused risk anything?

[Denisemomof4]

I think that would be pretty creepy, too.

 

If the kids are scared, let 'em spread their sleeping bags on the floor in the room or take a blanket and pillow to the floor where they're sleeping. Allowing this "crawling into bed" with someone other than a parent is inviting trouble.

 

absolutely:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

Allowing them to climb into bed with him was totally and completely inappropriate. Add in the several investigations......... it sounds like this person has problems. WHY allow kids to stay in bed with you if you've EVER been investigated? It's just WRONG on EVERY LEVEL.

 

Trust your gut on this one. I've BTDT. My kids are safe because I trusted what I felt, even though this person was just SO NICE to our family and even spent holidays with us. Because someone else wasn't so cautious, their child is forever scarred.

[dripdripsplat]

1. and went to the single, divorced father's bed and climbed n for the rest of the night ?

 

 

3. that this has happened more than once.

 

 

 

 

I removed #2 because I really want to focus on these two. Are you saying that the kid(s) have slept over before, and had nightmares before, and crawled into bed with divorced dad before? Because if that is the case, I'm sorry, but what is the likelihood of those instances happening repeatedly? I'm not saying that the kids are lying. I'm saying something must be provoking them to have repeated (shared?) nightmares. I could see one kid having a nightmare, but both? I wouldn't trust the situation. And, I, personally, would not suggest sending your kids over there again. There's no such thing as being too safe.

[mcconnellboys]

I think they need to know, if they haven't been told already. I'm shocked that in light of the allegations he would be allowed to have his children spend the night and bring guests with them....

[FaithManor]

What happened was inappropriate and definitely unwise on the this man's part. The parents need to know what happened. We've never allowed sleepovers except with grandma and grandpa because of these kinds of issues.

 

That said, I also see the other side since I have a male relative who is an awesome dad but with an evil ex-wife who has made up every wild allegation possible, turned him in countless times for abuse that never took place, and has even perjured herself on five different occasions to the courts. She has never done a night in jail for it though the judge keeps threatening, "Don't lie again". His reputation is shot and he never once hurt his daughter. Proven time and again. However, her live in boyfriend did abuse the little girl and he did 30 days in jail but the mother, who knew he was a registered s*x offender and let him live there, did not lose custody nor has she had to do anything to pay for restitution for the false allegations and what it has done to her ex-husband. She's untouchable....he is apparently a societal scum bag just for being male.

 

I would not automatically jump to the conclusion that he is guilty just because he has an ex-wife making allegations. If that becomes the norm, an awful lot of good men are ready to be lead to the slaughter. But, he did something HIGHLY unwise if not downright stupid, the parents need to be aware of this, and all you men out there, YOU NEED TO THINK TWICE ABOUT EVEN BEING ALONE IN A ROOM FOR A MINUTE WITH SOMEONE ELSE'S DAUGHTER! When it comes to these kinds of allegations, guilty until proven innocent is the norm in our culture.

 

Even within our 4-H club, we are EXTREMELY careful that dh is not with any of the girls in the club without at least one of the member's mothers being there too and as much as possible, no matter how many kids I am trying to help, I stay close. It's a shame....but we have to protect our families... our husbands as well as our kids.

 

So, I vote for informing the parents of what you know but not for automatically assuming that the guy is a perv and did something disgusting.

 

Faith

[Joanne]

What if you were told that duriing a 2-child sleepover they'd both had a nightmare

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

1. and went to the single, divorced father's bed and climbed n for the rest of the night ?

 

2. if you didn't know, but were told after the fact, that this dad has been investigated several times for sexual child abuse. Nothing was substantiated but this dad didn't get physical custody of his child but was allowed unsupervised time with his child.

 

3. that this has happend more than once.

 

4. And that a report was filed but CPS isn't going to act on it because there isn't enough allegations.

 

the child is 7 years old.

 

Some information about the filter/perspective I am posting through:

 

I am a huge advocate for *family* beds.

 

Family beds are just that; family.

 

My family both hosts and attends sleepovers.

 

If a child is young enough to need to sleep with an adult after a nightmare (or tempmentally inclined), they should not attend a sleep over.

 

"Not getting custody" and "custody battles" in and of themselves are meaningless in terms of accurate information.

 

Repeated allegations of inappropriate adult/child interaction require intervention and follow up.

 

A single male should never invite a non family child to sleep in his bed while he is there. Ever. Period.

 

Statistically it's men who sexually abuse children more than women.

 

Predators give clues (read Protect the Gift by Gavin de Becker).

 

"More than once" is a huge red flag.

 

If I were the parent of that 7 year old, I'd have that 7 year old in counseling. I'd talk with them about appropriateness, body boundaries and predators. I'd tell them more than once that they will not get in trouble if they have to tell me "something" about being touched/touching.

[Peela]

I wouldn't jump to conclusions about the father's guilt either, but it is not normal for kids to be jumping into beds with fathers not their own, either, family bed believers notwithstanding. It is a bit silly to be doing that after being accused of sexual abuse, even if it was from a bitter ex-wife. One's own child is one thing- but a guest? I would feel weird even if there was a woman in the bed too!

I would be trusting and acting upon my own intuition in the circumstance, as the book "protecting the Gift" that Joanne mentioned recommends. I would probably do nothing much at all but watch my own child for any signs of abuse, even ask some discreet questions, and most likely, not allow my kid for a sleepover there again.

But realistically, I probably would have tuned in (checked in with my intuition) before allowing my kids to sleepover at a divorced father's home in the first place, to tell the truth. And I hate it that we need to consider these things, and also that many innocent men are accused and even convicted of such crimes....but thats the world we live in, and for every innocent there are probably many guilties.