Was this over-protective?

[Pamela H in Texas]

Okay, I need to know. I'm not always the best judge of these things because I my mind tends towards WAY overprotective (though I try to temper it in action).

 

Anyway, okay, so a group of us went to Chesapeake Bay yesterday as part of a family reunion of sorts. Anyway, I'll skip all the neatness including catching then petting jellyfish which was so incredibly cool and get right to the questionable situations.

 

SIL's grandson and my son (both 15) were swimming.

 

1) Would you have limited them in terms of how far down the beach or out (within the guidelines of the beach) they could go?

 

2) Within the guideline set for the boys, they were swimming close to a big pier. A large boat used to take people out for the day for fishing was coming in to dock. Would you make the boys come in til it docked?

 

[NOTE regarding pier: This pier is a little different and we weren't the only family next to it. Noone was fishing in the swimming waters. There is a building on the pier and people fish past that (where swimmers aren't allowed). However, the boat docks right at the building and it does come very slightly (though there was no way for us to know how slightly at the time) into the swimming water in the process of turning and docking.]

 

I'll state what actually happened later, but wanted to throw out the scenarios without the prejudice of the thinking of the adults there at the time and what ended up happening.

 

Again, both boys are 15. And yes, there were lifeguards (that actually seemed to be paying attention). Few people were in the water more than knee deep due to the extreme number of jellies.

Edited August 9, 2010 by 2J5M9K

[Parrothead]

Two normally behaved, fairly sensible 15-year old boys I've have let loose with instructions to come back when they are hungry and to not swim near the pier.

 

Two normally behaved, fairly sensible 15-year old boys with water experience would know not to swim near the pier anyway.

 

If they had little to no water experience I'd tell they why they should stay away from the pier. People fish there, boats tie up there.

 

 

 

ETA: Other than swimming near the pier (which is either rude or dangerous depending on the circumstances) I'd let them swim to depths they are comfortable with. I would remind them of currents if that is necessary. Other than that, "Off you two go. Stay out of trouble"

Edited August 9, 2010 by Parrothead

[Tess in the Burbs]

I was wondering the same thing...why were they swimming near the pier?

[PineFarmMom]

Even adults get in bad situations at the beach. I'd limit them to being where I could see them, not out of lack of trust but so I could get a general idea of where they were. I'm with the others on the pier thing.

[Pajama Mama]

I voted about making them come in so they didn't get hit by the boat. I would have voted to combine that with giving them broad limits if that was an option. I would have allowed them to wander off by themselves. But if I saw them in harms way I would definitely reel them in a bit. I would have made them move away from the pier but not necessarily stay out of the water. Any beach that I've gone to has signs about staying away from the piers. Were there any signs telling them to stay away?

[Laurie4b]

I put "limit them to close by" but I couldn't really tell what all your choices meant. What I meant by that answer was limit them to a safe swimming range.

 

I'm choosing that answer based on my experience of my 15/13 year olds coming close to drowning in a riptide. I had let them go out as far as they wanted and they suddenly found that they couldn't touch anymore and couldn't easily get back to shore. My oldest swam in with his brother holding on to him. It was a miracle they made it in. They had been out about 45 minutes and were tired (I was just calling them in for lunch) when this happened. There weren't lifeguards at the beach, so that is one difference from your scenario. I don't know how I would weigh that in because lifeguards aren't always paying attention (but you said these were).

 

It is common knowledge, I think, that swimming near a pier is unsafe, so I'm not sure why lifeguards would not have whistled them in.

 

In general, overprotective is not allowing kids to do reasonably safe things for fear of a tiny percentage thing that "might" happen. I do not consider it overprotective when adults have knowledge that teens do not or when it's a clear safety issue and the difference is adult common sense judgment and teen omnipotent "It will never happen to me" judgment. Water safety isn't the place to be worried about being overprotective. I almost lost my kids being not proactive enough. (I wasn't worried about being overprotective--I just wasn't as aware of the level of danger as I should have been.)

 

I guess in the scenario you mentioned, I would have asked the lifeguards if there was a safety issue. They would be the best judges at a beach they were familiar with.

[Lolly]

Mine are allowed to be at the beach alone at 15. They know the rules. They have proven they can follow them at that point. However, if I saw that they were about to be hit by a boat, I would certainly make them come in. At the beaches we frequent, swimming is not allowed near piers. So, I don't think that would have been an issue in the first place.

[Pamela H in Texas]

This pier is a little different and we weren't the only family next to it. Noone was fishing in the swimming waters. There is a building on the pier and people fish past that (where swimmers aren't allowed). However, the boat docks right at the building and it does come very slightly (though there was no way for us to know how slightly at the time) into the swimming water in the process of turning and docking.

 

I'm hoping that makes sense.

[ereks mom]

I put "limit them to close by" but I couldn't really tell what all your choices meant. What I meant by that answer was limit them to a safe swimming range.

 

...

 

In general, overprotective is not allowing kids to do reasonably safe things for fear of a tiny percentage thing that "might" happen. I do not consider it overprotective when adults have knowledge that teens do not or when it's a clear safety issue and the difference is adult common sense judgment and teen omnipotent "It will never happen to me" judgment. Water safety isn't the place to be worried about being overprotective.

 

...

 

 

 

:iagree:

[Catherine]

Size of boat? Confidence in your son's swimming ability? Confidence he'd be sensible even if his companion wasn't? Ability to handle emergencies?

 

I personally am nearly phobic about swimming. My kids are excellent swimmers but I still watch like a hawk even when my 17 yo is swimming. I can't NOT do that, even though I know in my heart it's not necessary. So if the beach allows kids in the water where boats are docking, I'd allow it. I would permit my 17 yo to swim out to place beach limits them to. I would still be watching though.

[Pamela H in Texas]

As for what happened.

 

My SIL had a limit in her head. I'm not sure the boys knew it, but she told me. It was quite a bit more conservative than the beach's limit. I was unsure if that was necessary since they ARE 15. But I don't believe either of them have any real amount of beach experience either. Anyway, so the first two times she called the boys closer, it was because they were further out than she wanted. The third time, they had moved down the beach quite a bit to avoid jellies somewhat. *I* thought they were getting awfully far out as less of them was over the water. They *were* right in front of the lifeguard stand, but my son isn't a strong swimmer. My hubby went to get them. They were like, "we're fine...." in a teen boy kinda way.

 

The first two times, I wouldn't have called them in. Obviously, I was the catalyst for it happening the 3rd time.

 

Then the boat thing. Well, I kinda figured the boat wouldn't come into (or far into) swimming waters so when the boys hesitated coming in, I figured "well, whatever." I was really torn between wanting them up on shore and wanting to let them make their own choice. Well, and I figured the boat would honk or something if it needed them to move. So at first, I guess I thought hubby and SIL were being a bit overbearing but I think that at some point, I would have called them in if they hadn't been coming in themselves anyway.

[Renee in NC]

I would simply tell them to stay away from the pier and make sure they can stand up. Are there waves in the Chesapeake Bay?

 

My older ones are pretty well-versed in swimming safety and are strong swimmers. They know, for example, that if you get caught in a riptide the best bet is to swim parallel to the beach for awhile. They know not to swim near the piers because of the shark factor. We don't normally swim when the tide is high. That said, I agree with the poster that said that water safety is not something to play around with.

 

When my 17yo was here, he drove to the beach several times without me and swam.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Thanks Catherine. I guess I feel that is "right." Let them do whatever the beach allows and just watch from "afar" (though not too far. LOL).

 

As for your questions. It was a pretty big boat. Big enough for many families to go out fishing. My son can't really swim well at all. He would definitely do whatever he felt he needed to do regardless of what his cousin had said/done though. But though he may be able to handle many situations, a water situation would not be a danger I'd want him to have to TRY to deal with.

 

I think I've decided my kids need swimming lessons. We've tried the last two summers to find ones that would work for us; but I'm really thinking that it's a necessity, like a situation that you MAKE work rather than trying to work around your schedule/budget.

 

ANOTHER QUESTION: So say we're all pretty clueless but may be planning to live near water (two current job considerations has us minutes from water). Is there a way to learn what some of y'all are saying is common sense/common knowledge? Because my kids need to be able to have freedom at their ages and yet they've not had the experience or picked up on the common knowledge along the way. So if there is some way to learn some of this a bit more formally, I think I'd be interested, esp if we get one of these jobs on the water (Ft. Eustis in VA or Naples, FL).

Edited August 9, 2010 by 2J5M9K

[Renee in NC]

Thanks Catherine. I guess I feel that is "right." Let them do whatever the beach allows and just watch from "afar" (though not too far. LOL).

 

As for your questions. It was a pretty big boat. Big enough for many families to go out fishing. My son can't really swim well at all. He would definitely do whatever he felt he needed to do regardless of what his cousin had said/done though. But though he may be able to handle many situations, a water situation would not be a danger I'd want him to have to TRY to deal with.

 

I think I've decided my kids need swimming lessons. We've tried the last two summers to find ones that would work for us; but I'm really thinking that it's a necessity, like a situation that you MAKE work rather than trying to work around your schedule/budget.

 

My limits for a 15yo that could not swim well (who would benefit from swimmming lessons) are much, much, much tighter.

[Jen+4dc]

Even adults get in bad situations at the beach. I'd limit them to being where I could see them, not out of lack of trust but so I could get a general idea of where they were. I'm with the others on the pier thing.

:iagree:

 

In general, overprotective is not allowing kids to do reasonably safe things for fear of a tiny percentage thing that "might" happen. I do not consider it overprotective when adults have knowledge that teens do not or when it's a clear safety issue and the difference is adult common sense judgment and teen omnipotent "It will never happen to me" judgment. .

:iagree:

[Peela]

Two normally behaved, fairly sensible 15-year old boys I've have let loose with instructions to come back when they are hungry and to not swim near the pier.

 

Two normally behaved, fairly sensible 15-year old boys with water experience would know not to swim near the pier anyway.

 

If they had little to no water experience I'd tell they why they should stay away from the pier. People fish there, boats tie up there.

 

 

 

ETA: Other than swimming near the pier (which is either rude or dangerous depending on the circumstances) I'd let them swim to depths they are comfortable with. I would remind them of currents if that is necessary. Other than that, "Off you two go. Stay out of trouble"

 

:iagree:

Generally, with my kids, I wouldnt interfere except perhaps to bring the situation to their notice if I felt perhaps they hadnt noticed. But they are experienced swimmers, and sensible. Other peoples' kids......hard to say. My step dd? Well, she would take my kids- 5 and 6 years her junior- way out of what was safe range because she lacks a sensible gene or healthy boundaries (ADD )- but we know that and adjust accordingly with strict instructions and boundaries.

You know your own kids. My parents were very trusting and never over protective of my brother and I- though they taught us well how to handle many possible situations- and I am glad for the way they brought us up. I think putting too much fear and being too over protective is not healthy, because the kids' own self preservation doesnt get to develop properly so they learn to trust themselves- they are constantly being over ridden by an anxious mother.

[Peela]

ANOTHER QUESTION: So say we're all pretty clueless but may be planning to live near water (two current job considerations has us minutes from water). Is there a way to learn what some of y'all are saying is common sense/common knowledge? Because my kids need to be able to have freedom at their ages and yet they've not had the experience or picked up on the common knowledge along the way. So if there is some way to learn some of this a bit more formally, I think I'd be interested, esp if we get one of these jobs on the water (Ft. Eustis in VA or Naples, FL).

 

For us it has been Scouts- in our case Water Scouts.

We live on the coast so many kids do surf lifesaving classes too.

[Murphy101]

As long as they were staying together and were good swimmer, I'd let them go as far as they could hear and see me.

 

The boat wouldn't have bothered me at all unless they were being oblivious to it. Then I would have shouted out to watch out for the boat.

 

Off to read...

[Laurie4b]

Thanks Catherine. I guess I feel that is "right." Let them do whatever the beach allows and just watch from "afar" (though not too far. LOL).

 

As for your questions. It was a pretty big boat. Big enough for many families to go out fishing. My son can't really swim well at all. He would definitely do whatever he felt he needed to do regardless of what his cousin had said/done though. But though he may be able to handle many situations, a water situation would not be a danger I'd want him to have to TRY to deal with.

 

I think I've decided my kids need swimming lessons. We've tried the last two summers to find ones that would work for us; but I'm really thinking that it's a necessity, like a situation that you MAKE work rather than trying to work around your schedule/budget.

 

ANOTHER QUESTION: So say we're all pretty clueless but may be planning to live near water (two current job considerations has us minutes from water). Is there a way to learn what some of y'all are saying is common sense/common knowledge? Because my kids need to be able to have freedom at their ages and yet they've not had the experience or picked up on the common knowledge along the way. So if there is some way to learn some of this a bit more formally, I think I'd be interested, esp if we get one of these jobs on the water (Ft. Eustis in VA or Naples, FL).

 

Well, my vote doesn't change "keep them close" but my interpretation of it would given what you mention later: "Not a strong swimmer" and "not much beach experience." A 15 year old who is a strong swimmer with beach experience swimming in front of the lifeguard stand but out far--no problem. Overprotective to call him in. A 15 year old who isn't a strong swimmer and without beach experience *is* a problem and should not be pressing the boundaries of far out. The lifeguards don't know who is and is not a strong swimmer. That's up to parents to enforce stronger guidelines. And a guy who gets in trouble and goes under in the bay is not going to be as easy to see as in a pool because the water is more opaque. A lifeguard isn't a failsafe. It's still up to the parents to evaluate the safety based on all factors.

 

I don't know how strong currents get in the Chesapeake Bay. They may not even be a significant issue and it may be more like swimming in a cloudy pool. But anyone can get in trouble in the water, even a strong swimmer.

 

As for the pier, the boys lacked the experience to know that the pier/boat situation was dangerous. So yes, I would have called them in. I would not assume that the person running the boat was able to see swimmers. It would be analogous to a semi or delivery truck doing a three point turn in your cul-de-sac. Everyone, including adults, gets out of the cul-de-sac because if there is a close encounter, the human body is going to lose. You don't count on the truck to let you know to move; the driver may not even be able to see you.

 

A boat driver has to be dealing with the currents, with any wake that a boat further up throws out, etc. and is focused on not hitting the pier. One hopes that the boat driver is being careful and conservative. S/he may not even expect swimmers to be a factor and may not be looking for them. S/he may get distracted by passengers, etc.

[Murphy101]

But I don't believe either of them have any real amount of beach experience either.

 

Oh in that case I would have been very strict, especially if they aren't good swimmers.

 

"Then the boat thing. I figured the boat would honk or something if it needed them to move."

 

:001_huh:Um if they were in the street, would you think they need to move when they see a semi coming at them or only move if it honks?

 

Boats, And certainly big boats are no different than a semi. They have blind spots, sun glare and so forth and the only thing they might be able to see of a person is what amounts to a football (head) bobbing in the water. And they probably can't hear them either. On a boat always seems louder than off the boat for some reason.

 

If I didn't know what the boat was there for, I'd haul mine out or away mostly just to make it easier for the boat guy not to worry about them.

[phathui5]

They're 15. I'd tell them to be back by lunch/dinner.

[RamonaQ]

I change my vote, I didn't realize that they are not strong swimmers, and had limited experience swimming in open waters. Then they need to be where they can stand, you can see them and in an area where the life guards are.

[Teachin'Mine]

I am so glad to read that nothing bad happened! I wasn't sure where it was going from the first post. :tongue_smilie:

 

I would have tried to have them in the water as far away from the pier as possible. It sounds like a raised wooden pier, but the rock jetties are dangerous to be near for rip tides - the kind that pull you further from shore. (When caught, swim parallel with the shore line, until you're able to swim in.) I would have wanted them as far away from the boat docking area as possible. If you move near the water, swimming lessons would be great!

 

You were petting and holding jellyfish??? :svengo:

[hornblower]

My limits for a 15yo that could not swim well (who would benefit from swimmming lessons) are much, much, much tighter.

 

:iagree:

 

 

I'd be keeping a teen who is not a good swimmer very close by.

 

Swimming lessons here include a fair bit of stuff on water safety. I'd check out the various programs & make sure they include that, not only learning a certain stroke.

 

Do not ever assume that someone on a boat, esp a larger boat, can see you in the water. It is very hard to see people in the water & when you get close, the shape of most larger boats really prevents seeing things very close to you. There should be spotters but you cannot count on that (around here we often have a lot of deadwood in the water, logs etc so we try to use a spotter coming close to shore so we don't wreck a prop.)

 

If I was on the boat, I'd have a total cow about anybody not moving away from my path. Sure, it's my responsibility to keep safe also, but I'm big, hard to maneuver, can't stop very fast & my visibility is limited.

 

Swimmers need to keep away from boats. Any swimmer in my care who was not keeping away from a boat would get an earful from me.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Thanks y'all :)

 

It sounds like I may be a little laid back about the boat. Seriously, I would think that if they needed to pull into swimming waters to turn around, that they would MAJORLY be looking for families in the swimming waters. As it turned out, they didn't need as much turning room as we thought maybe they did.

 

You were petting and holding jellyfish???

 

I think these jellies were different. They didn't have the long tenacles to sting you with. My son used the other boy's father's baseball cap to scoop it up (this was a small jelly) and then we dumped him onto the beach to pet him. It was *really* cool.

 

Does it mean we're homeschoolers that we thought it would have been cool to dissect it?

[elfgivas]

hi pamela -

 

swimming lessons sound like a good idea. once he's a good swimmer, then a life guarding course ought to both equip him to manage and provide enough cautionary tales to help his wisdom along.

 

one of the reasons so many drown is that we don't respect the power of the water enough.... even my lifeguard trained oldest two won't swim without someone on shore watching. each family member except the two youngest have all pulled more than one person out of the water who was full of water; its enough to scare anyone into caution. when i'm out with a group, the rule is that they all can only swim as far as i'm prepared to go and get them, which these days isnt' as far as it used to be (i'm getting old ;))

 

i'm glad it all worked out well,

ann

[Staci in MO]

A couple of years ago a friend of ours drowned in the ocean. He was a good swimmer, but he got caught in a current and his strength gave out. Like others said, I'm not sure about currents in the Chesapeake, so it may be different. But when we go to the ocean, I'm continually preaching to my kids not to go too far, what to do if they get caught in a riptide, etc.

 

I don't know a lot about boats, but we live near the Mississippi River, and occasionally a smaller boat gets caught in the wake of a bigger boat and gets pulled under. I would think that the same thing would happen with a boat and a swimmer.

[hornblower]

we have this small type of jellyfish in the waters off Vancouver http://fireweedroots.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/jellyfish.jpg?w=500&h=375

It's about the size of the palm of your hand, with different colored centers. It's safe to touch these though you need to be careful as they're very fragile.

 

I grew up on the Baltic & spent all summer playing with this type of jellyfish too.

[Crimson Wife]

 

Here's an online water safety course that is free unless you need a formal certificate of completion.

[silliness7]

I live close to Lake Michigan. People get caught in the current particularly around piers and drown quite frequently. .I'm talking adults and teens here. I think piers are particularly dangerous because of the way the water current flows around them. It makes my stomach turn. Pier jumping is a popular pasttime here and has been banned in many places.

 

I can't think that all of my dc will make it through their teens w/o being in similar situations. It makes me incredibly nervous and the only thing I can think of to do is to educate educate educate on water safety and warn them that excellent swimmers can drown in the lake to give them a healthy fear/respect of the powerful force of large bodies of water.

 

At 15 I would want them to stay in my sight but fully knowing that at 18 these things are out of my control. :glare: I hope they have the good sense to know where it's safe and when it's safe.

[Lolosoli]

It would depend on the type of waters they are swimming in. We have a beach in my area that if you step off shore only a few steps you are in very, very deep cold water with strong currents and waves. At a different beach you can walk and walk and walk and walk before it is even up to your neck...the water is warm and there is little to no current or waves. They have different freedom at different beaches.

 

I don't allow my children to swim where people are also known to fish. Hooks and lines left behind are huge fear for me.

 

So, my kids wouldn't have been able to swim near the pier at all.

 

~Charlene~

[katemary63]

My son is a strong swimmer and at age 15, on a beach with lifeguards, I wouldn't have even felt the need to pay attention to where he was. If he were not a strong swimmer, I would be hovering. Water situations are scary. That's why I made sure all my kids could swim like little fish at a young age. We didn't have a swimming pool, but I took them for lessons until I was satisfied (age 5 to age 11). After that, I quit worrying.

[Terabith]

I'm 34, and a good swimmer. We went on a trip to the beach with my mom last summer. She freaked out and basically forbade me to go to the beach without my husband, with or without my children. And when my husband (also 34, and with lifeguard training) went actually swimming in the ocean, she was terrified the entire time and wouldn't take the kids back to the condo, because she had to have her eyes on me every single second because I might drown.

 

I think THAT is overprotective.

 

I think if they were two intelligent, well behaved boys, who swam well and were staying together, I would give broad guidelines for where to go/ when to be back, and I would perhaps ask a lifeguard if it was safe. I would, however, make sure that the kids knew about riptides and currents and stuff.

[jewellsmommy]

I don't know what part of the Chesapeake bay you were in...but, you need to be a strong swimmer and educated in matters of currents/riptides and such if you are going to be out above waist deep water (imho).

Our area is where the bay meets the ocean and may be different than where you were.

 

It is just so very easy to drift farther than you realize and I have seen this happen to swimmers. Once they realized how far out they were, they panicked and their swimming became erratic and inefficient and they quickly exhausted themselves. It is scary to see.

 

 

 

We won't even talk about sharks :tongue_smilie:even though I watched too much shark week. They are in the bay though, just so you know.:001_smile: You can even find some small ones up the James river because it is brackish.