Pastor put us on a payment plan - Returning to church

[TravelingChris]

In terms of buying or providing a house, I think a number of churches do this. I know that Methodist usually own a home or several in the area and just move pastoral staff in for their term. I gather that a number of denominations do this or give the pastoral staff a housing allowance. Now this is with churches that have enough members to support the practice. I also knew of several friends whose husbands worked in the ministry with very small churches. Each of those men had to have another job in addition to the pastorate and they paid for their own house.

 

By the way, my church here doesn't have tithing sermons and each year our budget is surpassed by giving. We see directly where our money is going- helping refugees, driving seniors, helping unemployed, supporting missionaries, upkeep of our share of the building, etc.

[runmiarun]

I have heard of this, particularly from one specific faith. My stepdad gets a bill from his former church every year for the missed tithes of the past year plus a total of the past 20 years of tithes he hasn't paid since he was excommunicated. Every 3 years, a ranking church member pays him a visit to discuss the debt and his excommunication status. Thankfully, this "debt" is never reported to a collection agency. I completely disagree with this practice since I find it to be not grounded in the Bible.

 

I can empathize with you regarding your fear of questioning church authority, especially in a church where the church (human) authority is considered of equal importance to the biblical authority of God. This sounds like one of those situations where your beliefs are getting turned on their heads. It's a very disconcerting place to be. I am praying for you and your family, for wisdom, for peace, and for strength. Please know that many other faiths are open to you and would gladly welcome you with open, loving arms should you choose to leave your current faith and church.

[NanceXToo]

Let me get this straight - he asked you to pray about it, you did, you must have been convicted to do this thing and now you wonder if he was wrong in the asking?

 

Yes, I think it's weird. But I think it's even stranger for an adult to agree to pray about it, agree to it, then come back saying, wow, he was really wrong and I probably shouldn't have agreed to it.

 

There's more to this or it's trolling. :(

 

Well, you could give the benefit of the doubt, you know.

 

I don't think it's strange. I'm not Christian or particularly religious but I can DEFINITELY see an adult agreeing to something that is a bit troubling to them because someone they really, really trust (like a pastor) has encouraged it... but still having second, third and fourth and more thoughts that might eventually make them say "I still don't know about this, I need to see what others think...."

 

And there have been other posters here who have said that yes, they've heard a such a thing, so it's not like UNHEARD of.

 

Just saying.

[FaithManor]

My dh is our church treasurer...HIS EYES NEARLY POPPED OUT OF HIS HEAD!

 

Dh is very knowledgeable of IRS/Non-Profit law and said this would probably get the church an IRS audit if it became known. It probably should become known. It's a scam, it's completely unscriptural, and it's a violation of their 501c status. They are running the church like a business "attempting to collect on perceived old bills" in much the same way a collection agency would. There is a verse in the Bible that says God will not be mocked! He and that church are going to end up in serious doo-doo if they don't repent and make restitution to everyone they've extorted.

 

Write him a letter, tell him that this situation clearly dictates that the church operates outside God's authority, that you could never in good conscience be a part of such an organization with controlling/cultish practices, and that any attempt to further contact you will result in a phone call to the IRS about the extortion.

 

As a Christian, I am so offended that it makes my brain go wonky!

Faith

[gpsings]

Are there no other churches in the area? What denomination is this? It sounds like the Twilight Zone to me, and I've visited a LOT of religions.

Everyone's already told you that's not biblical, but if you are in some kind of alternative religion that says it is, I don't know what to say. I agree with with many. I would run like the wind.

[LittleHouseHomeschool]

Sadly, I have heard of this before...and I would run away from this church at warp speed. It is not Biblical.

[Chris in VA]

I would really like to know what denom this is.

 

Carol, just be careful that you don't try to justify this man's practice and agree to it because you like the rest of the church. I would not trust his biblical judgement or teaching, if this is part of his theology, honestly.

 

I also would try very hard to discern in your own spirit why you think it is ok to be treated like this. :grouphug:

 

And sorry it happened to you.

 

So, what are you going to do?

 

Lastly, please don't let one person's misinterpretation scare you off of church.

I'm glad you are finding your way back--just maybe keep looking? :grouphug:

[HSMom2One]

:svengo:

 

I am 100% in support of tithing, but I am totally appalled at this! Seriously, jaw-droppingly appalled. I understand the point of a pastor trying to have members take tithing seriously, but this is WAY beyond my comfort level.

 

I am so sorry. There are many ways in which people interpret Biblical passages on tithing, but this one truly leaves me scratching my head and praying for this church.

 

:iagree:

 

I would NEVER follow the lead of this pastor! Can you imagine Jesus saying such a thing to you? God is a God of love, mercy and forgiveness. He even instituted the year of Jubilee in the OT where all past monetary debts were forgiven after a certain point. This guy is far too involved in the finances of his church. Pastors in churches we've attended most often opt out of even knowing how much money individuals give so that they can be more effective shepherds.

 

If you are asking opinions about it, my advice would be to leave and not return as long as this man is in leadership.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

[Annabel Lee]

I would run, run, RUNNNNN from that church and pastor. Are you KIDDING me?!

 

:iagree: God does not charge "back payment" fees or interest of any kind. 1st, how does this pastor know that you weren't possibly tithing to another church or missionaries, etc.? The Church is the Body of Christ, not that one pastor's little building.

If you have divulged to him that you weren't tithing for the time you were away from his church (if that be the case) and he wants to institute these back payments - that should be something that YOU come up with and decide. God does not want money from someone out of a feeling of obligation. Again, He also doesn't charge interest. What does this pastor plan on doing with these extra fees? Will it go towards Scriptural things (help the needy, widows, orphans, missionaries), or towards superficial material things? It is ALL out of our hearts. Read the last part of Malachi and tell this pastor to as well. I would reconsider that church just b/c of this guy's request.

[Lizzie in Ma]

Beyond unacceptable.

[elegantlion]

My dh is our church treasurer...HIS EYES NEARLY POPPED OUT OF HIS HEAD!

 

Dh is very knowledgeable of IRS/Non-Profit law and said this would probably get the church an IRS audit if it became known. It probably should become known. It's a scam, it's completely unscriptural, and it's a violation of their 501c status. They are running the church like a business "attempting to collect on perceived old bills" in much the same way a collection agency would. There is a verse in the Bible that says God will not be mocked! He and that church are going to end up in serious doo-doo if they don't repent and make restitution to everyone they've extorted.

 

Write him a letter, tell him that this situation clearly dictates that the church operates outside God's authority, that you could never in good conscience be a part of such an organization with controlling/cultish practices, and that any attempt to further contact you will result in a phone call to the IRS about the extortion.

 

As a Christian, I am so offended that it makes my brain go wonky!

Faith

 

Thank you! That was my question.

[homeschoolally]

My dh is our church treasurer...HIS EYES NEARLY POPPED OUT OF HIS HEAD!

 

Dh is very knowledgeable of IRS/Non-Profit law and said this would probably get the church an IRS audit if it became known. It probably should become known. It's a scam, it's completely unscriptural, and it's a violation of their 501c status. They are running the church like a business "attempting to collect on perceived old bills" in much the same way a collection agency would. There is a verse in the Bible that says God will not be mocked! He and that church are going to end up in serious doo-doo if they don't repent and make restitution to everyone they've extorted.

 

Write him a letter, tell him that this situation clearly dictates that the church operates outside God's authority, that you could never in good conscience be a part of such an organization with controlling/cultish practices, and that any attempt to further contact you will result in a phone call to the IRS about the extortion.

 

As a Christian, I am so offended that it makes my brain go wonky!

Faith

 

:iagree: That was my first thought (IRS Flag) but I don't have any experience in that area to back it up. This is great advice--I'd write a letter with the exact quote from this poster.

 

I also agree with the others who have mentioned trying another church. I hope this doesn't turn you off to church--have you looked to find out if any churches in your area have a homeschool ministry? That might be a good place to start--not sure what denomination you're looking at but if I was looking for a church that would be one of my first ideas. Best of luck to you in this icky situation.

[Annabel Lee]

By the way, my church here doesn't have tithing sermons and each year our budget is surpassed by giving. We see directly where our money is going- helping refugees, driving seniors, helping unemployed, supporting missionaries, upkeep of our share of the building, etc.

 

:iagree:ITA. There should be full and transparent disclosure to account for all money coming in and all money going out of the church. Ours has this report printed out & available on a table in the lobby and on another in the back of the auditorium. It would irk me if I saw $$ going towards unecessary expenditures. I give to help those who need it more than me, not to support somebody's posh lifestyle.

[DarlaS]

I didn't respond at first, but I see now that this wasn't some kind of forum joke, so I'll be another voice screaming RUN!

 

 

I'm still not convinced it's a legit post.

[Chris in VA]

My dh is our church treasurer...HIS EYES NEARLY POPPED OUT OF HIS HEAD!

 

Dh is very knowledgeable of IRS/Non-Profit law and said this would probably get the church an IRS audit if it became known. It probably should become known. It's a scam, it's completely unscriptural, and it's a violation of their 501c status. They are running the church like a business "attempting to collect on perceived old bills" in much the same way a collection agency would. There is a verse in the Bible that says God will not be mocked! He and that church are going to end up in serious doo-doo if they don't repent and make restitution to everyone they've extorted.

 

Write him a letter, tell him that this situation clearly dictates that the church operates outside God's authority, that you could never in good conscience be a part of such an organization with controlling/cultish practices, and that any attempt to further contact you will result in a phone call to the IRS about the extortion.

 

As a Christian, I am so offended that it makes my brain go wonky!

Faith

 

Just wanted to say that there is a difference between sending a bill and sending a note that shows a pledged amount and how much still hasn't been paid on it. We do that (Episcopalian), and it's NOT a bill, just a reminder. There is a moral obligation to pay, but that's because a pledge is a promise, and the church budget is determined and run on it--BUT THAT IS NOT THE SAME!!!! We don't do "back pledges," either--you pay what you can. It's a little like public television or the Jerry Lewis Telethon...:D And I am not saying Carol's situation is that way.

 

Just want to be VERY clear on this particular point. (And that's not directed at you, FaithManor, just to everyone, based on your post :001_smile:)

[SproutMamaK]

Think about how this would look if it were truly coming from God. Imagine a man has lived his whole life outside of the church. He comes to faith at, say, 50? Does God with him with open arms, rejoicing, and giving free grace, or does God say, "I'd love to take you - that'll be $200,000, please!"

 

This man (since I don't feel I can truly call him a pastor) is in a very real way profaning God's grace and mercy. Please, report him. Imagine if he's allowed to continue this behaviour, pretending it's for God. It's sickening.

[FO4UR]

My dh is our church treasurer...HIS EYES NEARLY POPPED OUT OF HIS HEAD!

 

Dh is very knowledgeable of IRS/Non-Profit law and said this would probably get the church an IRS audit if it became known. It probably should become known. It's a scam, it's completely unscriptural, and it's a violation of their 501c status. They are running the church like a business "attempting to collect on perceived old bills" in much the same way a collection agency would. There is a verse in the Bible that says God will not be mocked! He and that church are going to end up in serious doo-doo if they don't repent and make restitution to everyone they've extorted.

 

Write him a letter, tell him that this situation clearly dictates that the church operates outside God's authority, that you could never in good conscience be a part of such an organization with controlling/cultish practices, and that any attempt to further contact you will result in a phone call to the IRS about the extortion.

 

As a Christian, I am so offended that it makes my brain go wonky!

Faith

 

:iagree:

 

Only I don't think I'd give the courtesy of a warning, I'd just leave and report it.

 

...I'd HATE to be that pastor on judgement day....WOW!!!:glare:

[ShelzNH]

2 Corinthians 9:7 seems pretty clear to me. I don't know how it is constantly ignored:

 

Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

 

If this is a legitimate post then all I can say is "Find a new church!!!"

[katemary63]

I don't know if this is right, but my family and I have recently returned to church after several years away. We attended this church for several years in the late 90's through 2001 or 2002. At that time we did try to tithe 10% of our income.

 

Upon returning to the church a couple of months ago, our pastor sat down with us to discuss our reinstatement as members. Much to my surprise he started to discuss payment of tithes between 2001 or 2002 through last month that we missed paying because we had not attended. I was startled and did not know what to say. I do not want to be told we can not attend and I had been taught as a child not to question an authority figure, but now I wish I did.

 

After discussing our current and past finances with the pastor and him allowing us to pray about it for 48 hours, we agreed to tithe 10% of our current income and add an additional monthly $363.27 as a "back payment" for 60 months!

 

Should have I agreed to do this and has anyone else heard of this, or been put on a church payment plan like this?

 

UNBELIEVABLE!!!! I am a born again Christian who has attended Baptist and other non-denominational churches since the age of 19. If I were you, I would RUN in the opposite direction and never go back to that church again! I can not believe what you are saying and I find it offensive, legalistic, controling and scary. This guy must truly have some ideas of grandiosity if he thinks it is his job to collect payments from you like this. Crazy!!!!!! What you tithe is between YOU AND GOD. I don't believe there is ANY Biblical evidence for what he has you doing. Not only that, every pastor I have ever had makes sure they do not even know what their individual congrigants are giving. They leave that up to the accountants to keep track of for tax purposes only. It is non of his business what you give or have given other then to councel you on the general principles of giving that are clearly found in the Bible. In my opinion the idea of a 10% tithe is questionable and not a mandate, but DH and I do practice it because we WANT to. Even if you do believe a 10% tithe is a mandate, it is still between you and the Lord. Remember how Jesus said to give "in secret" and don't even let your left hand know what your right hand is doing? That is a far cry from being given a payment plan. Your pastor is a shiester in my opinion! Yikes!!!!!

[MomLovesClassics]

I am in total shock. How dare he request such a huge monthly sum, and intimidate to make you do it or else. I would not return, and I would do my best to let others see this man needs to repent or get out of the church.

[Word Nerd]

For those who doubt the legitimacy of the OP, do a Google search for back tithe or paying back tithes. The concept is not as out of the ordinary as you assume.

 

With that said, I would run far, far from any church that presumed to have this much control over its members, and that might mean leaving that denomination/organization altogether.

Edited July 10, 2010 by WordGirl