grown up by 12?

[MeganW]

Several of you have commented that you expect your children to be fully grown (acting like adults, able to manage a household, etc.) by age 12. I'm not sure I totally feel that's possible, but definitely a great goal!

 

Can you refer me to some resources about raising your children that way? If if makes a difference in recommendations, we are pretty mainstream Protestant Christians (Presbyterian).

[Jean in Newcastle]

I don't know about resources though I think that FlyLady has a children's version for getting your kids to do certain chores.

 

The idea is to give your children practical skills. My 8 year old can sort the laundry, wash a load in the washer, transfer it to the dryer and bring the dry clothes up. (I usually only ask her to do one of these on a particular day and if it is heavy then her 13 year old brother will help you. She can also empty and load the dishwasher, sweep the floor (though this chore often needs me to do quality control since she often misses a lot), clean the bathroom mirrors, vacuum and dust. She can make a simple breakfast and lunch. With guidance she can make something like spaghetti. Her 13 year old brother can do all of the same except he can also clean the toilet in the bathroom and can do a bit more in the kitchen.

 

Both kids can fill out a basic grocery list quite well. We often divide up the grocery list and everyone gets their groceries and adds them to the cart.

 

In the yard, ds13 can mow the front flat yard. Both kids can weed and have planted a basic garden.

 

I have not worked on basic bookkeeping skills yet but I suppose you would need that to manage a household.

 

One thing to remember is that while physically they can learn a lot about managing a household, they are still emotionally a child.

[Catwoman]

Several of you have commented that you expect your children to be fully grown (acting like adults, able to manage a household, etc.) by age 12. I'm not sure I totally feel that's possible, but definitely a great goal!

 

Personally, I don't think it's a great goal, unless it's for "educational purposes" and not as a way to get the kids to do all the work around the house.

 

Maybe I'll get flamed for this, but IMHO, 12 year-olds are still children and although it's certainly possible to teach them to perform all sorts of household tasks and even how to manage finances properly, I don't think it's a great idea to expect them to be "fully grown" at that age, as my personal feeling is that it's more important for them to enjoy being kids for as long as possible. They've got a lifetime of responsibility and work ahead of them; why rush things?

 

I think it's wonderful to teach our kids a wide variety of skills, but I don't believe in giving kids too many chores and responsibilities until they are much older.

 

I know I'm probably in the minority here, but my brother and I grew up in a household where there were no chores for the kids and we turned out ok. (Well, at least I think we did... ;))

 

Cat

[mereminerals]

Personally, I don't think it's a great goal, unless it's for "educational purposes" and not as a way to get the kids to do all the work around the house.

 

Maybe I'll get flamed for this, but IMHO, 12 year-olds are still children and although it's certainly possible to teach them to perform all sorts of household tasks and even how to manage finances properly, I don't think it's a great idea to expect them to be "fully grown" at that age, as my personal feeling is that it's more important for them to enjoy being kids for as long as possible. They've got a lifetime of responsibility and work ahead of them; why rush things?

 

I think it's wonderful to teach our kids a wide variety of skills, but I don't believe in giving kids too many chores and responsibilities until they are much older.

 

 

Cat

 

:iagree:

[CalicoKat]

Interesting thread. I don't have teen agers yet. But as I listen to the parents of teens there's a common theme. Kids are grown and expectations are high, yet they're still kids and can't do anything because they're minors.

 

I've been wondering if some of the teenage rebellion might be less likely to occur if we start to give our kids real responsibilities at a younger age. Not sure how that would look just yet, or even what age that should be. But think about it. Adolescence is truly limbo time.

 

Heather in NC posted on her blog a piece on The Myth of Adolescence on this subject that I enjoyed. Still, there's not much out there on the practical application. Although I do think that the homeschooler's I've met that are allowing their teenagers to take CLEP tests and to start college with a few years already under their belt on on the right track. Also those who have been encouraging your kids to start life with a skill, before high school graduation, that helps makes them $$ are ahead of the game in more ways than just financial freedom. These kids aren't the ones parents complain about. These kids have a focus and a real purpose.

 

Still how to fit all this in with the daily grind? I wish there was a curriculum or How To Book for this.

[Ester Maria]

Several of you have commented that you expect your children to be fully grown (acting like adults, able to manage a household, etc.) by age 12. I'm not sure I totally feel that's possible, but definitely a great goal!

Actually, I'm not so sure it's such an excellent idea. Hate to be a party breaker, but I think that such approaches can seriously harm the child's emotional health just as much as the opposite approaches - "sheltering from life" - can.

 

In my view, responsibilities are tied to freedoms. Giving too much freedom, without appropriate responsibilities, creates unhappy and immature children who throw fits and can't behave as children, and then later in their life they can't behave in relationships and handle responsibilities; however, giving too much responsibilities, without adequate freedoms, may also produce unhappy and, while maybe not immature, then certainly bitter children.

 

I don't think that being able to do any chore in a house, manage household finances and "acting like adults" is a full picture - it's HALF of it. The other half is the right to vote, driving a car, having your own money and property to do with it what you please, being legally allowed to do all of the things children cannot do, deciding for yourself and being treated like an adult in that OTHER half as well, not only when it comes to responsibilities.

 

The other day we had a couple of threads regarding how old your children have to be for you to leave them alone for a few hours. Sorry to put it so bluntly, but if you can't leave them alone for a whole weekend at the age at which you expect them to be "like adults" - you've either missed the age, or you're doing something wrong. Responsibilities have to be tied to freedoms, if you want an emotionally normal child.

 

I don't want my 12 and 13 y.o.s to be adults, because their emotional health and overall growth is more important to me at this point than that they can handle the adult load of responsibilities. I'm not willing to give them full adult load of freedoms either at this point. I just see no point in speeding up the process and making them be something they're not.

If we were in some other times, in some other circumstances, then maybe something as drastic would be needed. But it's not, and my 12 y.o.s don't need to run the house and feed the family.

And they get to be kids only once. They'll have plenty of time in life to cope with full load of responsibilities.

 

I'm all for responsibilities, but within some normal limits. I see no reason why should a 12 y.o. be a little size adult, as opposed to a normal 12 y.o. child, with duties and freedoms that approximately match the age (taking into the account, of course, that not all kids are the same either).

Not all kids live in the same circumstances either - some will have to master farm work at that age, some will have to master intercontinental flights alone at that age, a lot of it depends on where they live, what lifestyle they lead, etc. But none of that extra skills makes them adults yet.

Edited June 24, 2010 by Ester Maria
spelling

[Mad Jenny Flint]

I want my kids to be kids as long as appropriate (until 18, anyway), with measured doses of age-appropriate responsibilities and training thrown in at intervals until then.

[Desert Rat]

I agree with Ester Maria and Jenny.

[Ravin]

Even in cultures where girls marry at 12, they generally move into situations where they have older women (senior wives or mother-in-law) around to guide and help them. That doesn't mean the basic skills of housekeeping shouldn't be learned young, but the management side of things certainly takes longer. The main factor at this point limiting what I have my DD do is her physical size. For example, to transfer clothes from the (top loading) washer to the dryer, she has to climb up onto the dryer and dive headfirst into the washer to pull things out. She's gotten stuck a couple of times when she insisted on doing it. She does hang out wet clothes, but to do so she has to carry them out a few at a time and climb up on the porch swing to reach the bar we hang them on. It'll be a while yet before I can just tell her to do the laundry.

[Saille]

Hmmm....and yet...we have historically expected children to do much more in terms of chores, sibling watching, etc. than many families do now. The reward wasn't being able to drive, vote, or earn money. Children helped out because their help was important...it was integral to the success of a family.

 

My kids are 4, 6 and 8, and they are all expected to pick up their toys, to varying degrees based on age. My 8 year old can run a load of laundry. The older two can (sort of) fold. They are responsible to varying degrees for putting their own laundry away. As a three-kid team, they can feed the chickens and check for eggs. They help me weed in the garden. My oldest can prepare simple meals, and my middle child is chafing at the bit to do so. They can pour themselves cereal or toast a bagel, and wash their plate or bowl. They can sweep up a mess with a dustpan. And frankly, they need to, because we have a big garden, chickens and ducks, and we homeschool. Dh works a very busy job, and I work two part-time jobs to make homeschooling possible.

 

Their small helps keep them involved in the daily success of our family, and they know that what they are doing matters. What started out as a Montessori and Waldorf-influenced experiment has become an issue of simple practicality.

 

As far as being an adult at the age of twelve...that's actually the first time I've seen that sentiment in print. Gonna have to think on that. But I certainly plan to have kids involved in semi-communal meal prep and clean up by that age, and to have the chores spread around a bit more (vacuuming, laundry, garden). I suspect they'll be involved in the meal planning and grocery shopping as a result, and I'll have to give way so that everyone can have ownership over that process. If they're going to drive at age sixteen, I want them to have a good grasp on finances by then. Cars are expensive. Ditto on college educations. But that's a good bit later than what you're talking about.

[Renee in NC]

Several of you have commented that you expect your children to be fully grown (acting like adults, able to manage a household, etc.) by age 12. I'm not sure I totally feel that's possible, but definitely a great goal!

 

Can you refer me to some resources about raising your children that way? If if makes a difference in recommendations, we are pretty mainstream Protestant Christians (Presbyterian).

 

I don't have any expectations for running the house at 12, but in our home 12 is no longer one of the "children." The idea is to start moving them to adulthood, so that by 16-18 they can be on their own if necessary.

 

This is in contrast to keeping them "children" until 17.99 and then expecting them to behave as adults at 18.

 

ETA: My perspective on early maturity has absolutely nothing to do with household chores. My 7yo can cook a few basic meals and so can my 12yo. However, that isn't what I am talking about. It's more of a transition from parent telling them what to do to parent helping them make wise choices to parent in the background as a safety net in case they do something stupid to independent.

Edited June 24, 2010 by Renee in FL

[Jean in Newcastle]

1. Just because children have been taught to do all the pieces of managing a household does not mean that they are required to actually manage the household.

 

2. As Saille said, the goal in our household is working as a team. My kids get a sense of pride and satisfaction out of making a real contribution. And I am very grateful for their help. I am just as busy, if not more so, than they are.

 

3. Most families that I've seen with this model (including mine) have a lot of playtime as well.

 

4. Managing a household is not the ultimate litmus test of being an adult. As I said in my previous post, I would not call my capable kids adults even if they are very capable of doing adult work in certain things. (Also managing a household is only one of many responsibilities my kids will probably have as adults.)

[Catwoman]

The idea is to start moving them to adulthood, so that by 16-18 they can be on their own if necessary.

 

"On their own" at 16? :eek: Can you clarify that? I'm sure I'm somehow misinterpreting your post.

 

Cat

[Plucky]

I don't expect 12 year olds to be little adults. In my house they are still kids, depending on the maturity. It's just constant training and reminders. They earn appropriate privileges as they are able to handle more responsibility and display good attitudes and maturity. It really does seem to work here.

[Jean in Newcastle]

"On their own" at 16? :eek: Can you clarify that? I'm sure I'm somehow misinterpreting your post.

 

Cat

 

I was on my own at 16 - 3000 miles away from every one I knew. I don't recommend it for emotional reasons. But it isn't that far-fetched. But I was at college, which someone in another post pointed out is still "semi-independent".

[Lolly]

I doubt anyone has meant that their child is grown up by 12. A 12 yo is capable of handling most grown up tasks physically. However, emotionally they are....12. Not near grown up. I do think that we as a society have infantalized children to a scary degree. I think it is beneficial for kids to feel that they are not only wanted, but NEEDED. Having family responsibilities fills that. On a more personal level, my kids are not grown at 12. They are handling responsibilities and able to take care of themselves. They have experienced most of the jobs required around the house. (Not all at once.) If something were to happen and they had no adult around for an extended time, they would be able to manage because they have had experience with everything necessary to run a home. It wouldn't be an age appropriate thing, it would most likely cause them some stress, but they would be okay. One of my girls really is grown. She is almost 18. She is grown enough to know that she really prefers to have mommy around.:lol: My two not quite 16 yo dd's are extremely close to grown. One only has to come to that realization that she doesn't quite know everything to be there. The other has already made that logic leap...:D

[Renee in NC]

"On their own" at 16? :eek: Can you clarify that? I'm sure I'm somehow misinterpreting your post.

 

Cat

 

Cat, I meant exactly that. I am *not* pushing anyone out at this point, don't worry! I just don't like prolonged childhoods. My dc can stay home as long as they'd like (within reason.) They can join the military and go to boot camp at 17!

 

My father was working a full-time job at 16 and supporting a family. I was on my own at 17. My mother married at 15 (not hoping for that!:tongue_smilie:) My grandmother went to college at 16, married at 18, and was teaching school at that time.

 

It wasn't until this generation (and maybe the last) that a 16yo was a child.

[Ester Maria]

Jean - absolutely, I agree, but some of us were replying with regards to the idea from the initial post itself, not anything else chores-specific, and the concept is expressed as "expect your children to be fully grown (acting like adults, able to manage a household, etc.) by age 12.".

 

I personally think that chores are each family's business as they organize them; it's impossible to prescribe it. That's what I meant by talking about different circumstances - some children will grow up having to help more than the others, and that's perfectly okay with me, just like some will grow up having to be a lot more responsible in some other fields (I mentioned travelling alone quite young as an example relevant to our life). Of course that you don't expect your children to manage the household if you taught them all the pieces, just like I don't expect my children to leave countries in hurry and run to their embassies, just because I taught them what to do in a highly improbable case of a conflict bursting up when they're abroad somewhere alone. We both teach what we find to be relevant to our and their lives in the near future, and that's okay.

 

I just think that, generally speaking, too much responsibility CAN do more harm than good, if not combined with adequate level of freedom. I'm sure your kids do have that (you sound like a reasonable person), but I'm speaking generally. I know some people who are quite bitter about their childhood due to strict duties and being considered an adult in some camps combined with being treated like a child and having a zero freedom or say in some other camps (say, a child capable of managing a household whom you don't trust enough to leave them alone for a night, to evoke the earlier threads). It's just not an emotionally healthy situation to be torn to that extent.

[Parrothead]

"On their own" at 16? :eek: Can you clarify that? I'm sure I'm somehow misinterpreting your post.

 

Cat

I took it to mean if there was a horrible accident and both parents were dead of severely injured. Or something along those lines.

 

I tell dh all the time he needs to know what goes on around here because one day I might get hit by a bus. By 16 children should know where the important papers are, how to run the household, and take care of younger sibs if necessary. They should know how to change a tire, and how to write a check.

[Lolly]

I don't have any expectations for running the house at 12, but in our home 12 is no longer one of the "children." The idea is to start moving them to adulthood, so that by 16-18 they can be on their own if necessary.

 

This is in contrast to keeping them "children" until 17.99 and then expecting them to behave as adults at 18.

 

ETA: My perspective on early maturity has absolutely nothing to do with household chores. My 7yo can cook a few basic meals and so can my 12yo. However, that isn't what I am talking about. It's more of a transition from parent telling them what to do to parent helping them make wise choices to parent in the background as a safety net in case they do something stupid to independent.

 

This. This is what it is about! As teenagers, I am telling my children less and less. I am doing more guiding. At this point with the girls, it is pretty much a they run their choices by me. Unless it is something life-threatening, I give it a nod. Soon, my approval will not be necessary at all.

[coffeegal]

I don't have any expectations for running the house at 12, but in our home 12 is no longer one of the "children." The idea is to start moving them to adulthood, so that by 16-18 they can be on their own if necessary.

 

This is in contrast to keeping them "children" until 17.99 and then expecting them to behave as adults at 18.

 

:iagree: Although in our house it's 13. My 13 yo is a young adult in the same way a 2 yo is a young child. I don't expect my 2yo to be ready to handle playdates, going potty, and dressing unsupervised anymore than I expect my 13 yo to be ready for a full time job, wife, kids, etc. It's a process. :D

[Catwoman]

Cat, I meant exactly that. I am *not* pushing anyone out at this point, don't worry! I just don't like prolonged childhoods. My dc can stay home as long as they'd like (within reason.) They can join the military and go to boot camp at 17!

 

My father was working a full-time job at 16 and supporting a family. I was on my own at 17. My mother married at 15 (not hoping for that!:tongue_smilie:) My grandmother went to college at 16, married at 18, and was teaching school at that time.

 

It wasn't until this generation (and maybe the last) that a 16yo was a child.

 

Thanks, Renee!!! :)

 

Cat

[Renee in NC]

I just think that, generally speaking, too much responsibility CAN do more harm than good, if not combined with adequate level of freedom. I'm sure your kids do have that (you sound like a reasonable person), but I'm speaking generally. I know some people who are quite bitter about their childhood due to strict duties and being considered an adult in some camps combined with being treated like a child and having a zero freedom or say in some other camps (say, a child capable of managing a household whom you don't trust enough to leave them alone for a night, to evoke the earlier threads). It's just not an emotionally healthy situation to be torn to that extent.

 

Agree 100%.

 

I took it to mean if there was a horrible accident and both parents were dead of severely injured. Or something along those lines.

 

I tell dh all the time he needs to know what goes on around here because one day I might get hit by a bus. By 16 children should know where the important papers are, how to run the household, and take care of younger sibs if necessary. They should know how to change a tire, and how to write a check.

 

Yes.

[SailorMom]

My sons are 12 and 13. They could get by just fine here for a week without DH and I doing a thing. I would probably have to review the pool pump care, but other than that - they're good.

Mowing, weedeating, laundry, cooking, dishes, per care, cleaning all the rooms and floors... They can accomplish all of this. Not that they do it all - but they know how to do it all - and do a great job.

They may gripe about having chores, but then when they find out their 12 y.o. friend can't run the wasing machine or make waffles- they can't believe it!

When they were much younger, we read Farmer Boy outloud. That was an eye opener for all of us. the amount those kids were able to accomplish without parental help was astounding!

My kids have a ton of free time, rotating chores, and have a lot of maturity to gain. But they also have self sufficiency, and take pride in that.

All that being said - there is no one right way to raise a family - this one just happens to work for us.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Jean - absolutely, I agree, but some of us were replying with regards to the idea from the initial post itself, not anything else chores-specific, and the concept is expressed as "expect your children to be fully grown (acting like adults, able to manage a household, etc.) by age 12.".

 

I personally think that chores are each family's business as they organize them; it's impossible to prescribe it. That's what I meant by talking about different circumstances - some children will grow up having to help more than the others, and that's perfectly okay with me, just like some will grow up having to be a lot more responsible in some other fields (I mentioned travelling alone quite young as an example relevant to our life). Of course that you don't expect your children to manage the household if you taught them all the pieces, just like I don't expect my children to leave countries in hurry and run to their embassies, just because I taught them what to do in a highly improbable case of a conflict bursting up when they're abroad somewhere alone. We both teach what we find to be relevant to our and their lives in the near future, and that's okay.

 

I just think that, generally speaking, too much responsibility CAN do more harm than good, if not combined with adequate level of freedom. I'm sure your kids do have that (you sound like a reasonable person), but I'm speaking generally. I know some people who are quite bitter about their childhood due to strict duties and being considered an adult in some camps combined with being treated like a child and having a zero freedom or say in some other camps (say, a child capable of managing a household whom you don't trust enough to leave them alone for a night, to evoke the earlier threads). It's just not an emotionally healthy situation to be torn to that extent.

 

Then we are in perfect agreement:)

 

BTW - some of my fondest memories are of traveling around Japan with a girlfriend when I was 15.

[iammommy]

Personally, I don't think it's a great goal, unless it's for "educational purposes" and not as a way to get the kids to do all the work around the house.

 

Maybe I'll get flamed for this, but IMHO, 12 year-olds are still children and although it's certainly possible to teach them to perform all sorts of household tasks and even how to manage finances properly, I don't think it's a great idea to expect them to be "fully grown" at that age, as my personal feeling is that it's more important for them to enjoy being kids for as long as possible. They've got a lifetime of responsibility and work ahead of them; why rush things?

 

I think it's wonderful to teach our kids a wide variety of skills, but I don't believe in giving kids too many chores and responsibilities until they are much older.

 

I know I'm probably in the minority here, but my brother and I grew up in a household where there were no chores for the kids and we turned out ok. (Well, at least I think we did... ;))

 

Cat

:iagree: Nan

[staceyobu]

Oh, there is a great sermon online somewhere. A sermon about Jesus at the age of 12. Really phenomenal. Maybe someone remembers the name of it? It totally changed my perspective on what I should be expecting out of my children!

[MeganW]

Oh, there is a great sermon online somewhere. A sermon about Jesus at the age of 12. Really phenomenal. Maybe someone remembers the name of it? It totally changed my perspective on what I should be expecting out of my children!

 

YAY!! Now I remember - that's what triggered this train of thought in the first place. I just couldn't quite remember enough to search and find it. Someone mentioned that sermon, and then others chimed in talking about how by 12 or so, they expected their main parenting to be guiding, not disciplining and so on. And it stuck out to me because it was in such sharp contrast to the way so many Americans parent.

 

That sermon, as well as resources supporting it, are what I am looking for.

[johnandtinagilbert]

looking forward to the sermon link.

 

I think the point, be it 12 or 15, is that the basics of how to live are easily taught by that point. Everyone must bathe, clean, eat, take care of homes and finances at some point. If your dc is physically able to accomplish these tasks, with mental confidence as a result of performing them for so long, these things are the easy part of life. It's the decision making and attainment of wisdom that need nurturing beyond middle school. Notice it's nurture now , not personal discipline. Instead of teaching all the ins and outs of living AND nurturing more adult attitudes at the same time, why not focus on what's at hand and let the rest be gravy.

 

I'm kind of in that crossing over stage with my boys right now. They've started, at their own requests btw, to do their laundry, the last part of their homestead training. They have now been taught to cook, clean and take care of money (mostly). Now, we get to polish those areas and start talking about decisions as wise young men, instead of obedience for little boys.

[Rosie_0801]

I just think that, generally speaking, too much responsibility CAN do more harm than good, if not combined with adequate level of freedom. I'm sure your kids do have that (you sound like a reasonable person), but I'm speaking generally. I know some people who are quite bitter about their childhood due to strict duties and being considered an adult in some camps combined with being treated like a child and having a zero freedom or say in some other camps (say, a child capable of managing a household whom you don't trust enough to leave them alone for a night, to evoke the earlier threads). It's just not an emotionally healthy situation to be torn to that extent.

 

:iagree: Btdt, my mother made me wear the t-shirt...

 

Rosie

Edited June 25, 2010 by Rosie_0801

[hillfarm]

I don't know if any of my previous posts have given you the idea that I expect my 11yo dd to be an adult by 12, but I would like to clarify my position on this.

 

We live on a small farm and I do expect dd to behave in a very responsible manner when around the equipment, animals, fields, woods, etc. She has received extensive training in this since she was first able to comprehend our explanations. I also expect her to learn how to do all age appropriate chores within her capability around the house. I want very much for her to understand what being the woman in charge is like when she is a typical teen, craving adult independence. I want her to realize that adulthood is not all fun and games, that it also involves a lot of hard work and harder choices.

 

However, I don't think that a 12yo should be expected to act like an adult. IMO, they don't have the judgement or life experience to do so. Being an adult requires much more than just mastery of skills. OTOH, I do feel strongly that they should be expected to act like a 12yo who is also a member of a family, and do the work that they appropriately can to help with the family's load.