Moxie Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 Look at what power these people still have over you. They randomly call; your world is turned over. Why don't you have your lawyer meet with them when they arrive? This is the best idea so far. Have you tried to get visitation? You shouldn't be forced to see these people because they have decided they want to see you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 Imp, hon, I'm with the others on this one. Honestly, do not expose your children to these people. You broke off to protect them and yourself. Why go back on that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cara Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 Coming from a place as an ex friend that knows more of the story, I'm going to have to say don't meet withthem. I get you want to for your oldest, but I don't think it will be healthy for any of you especially not Diva or the Littles. Just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 (edited) What if they want Diva now? What if they are going to plant the seeds of how wonderful life would be with them? And take her when she's 12? I agree Edited June 21, 2010 by unsinkable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dansamy Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 I would probably see them alone (or with Wolf) and inform them that you are severing all ties. That's the extent of the conversation that I would have with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Rat Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 I'm sorry for the place you are in. And I'm sending positive thoughts and healing prayers your way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bookfiend Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 Look at what power these people still have over you. They randomly call; your world is turned over. Why don't you have your lawyer meet with them when they arrive? If not your lawyer, is there a trusted friend you could take with you? Someone who could offer testimony should the converstion turn ugly and litigious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnitWit Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 Oh my! I want you to know that I just can't believe what you have been through and it breaks my heart. I pray that you will KNOW what is best for you and your children and be strong enough to act on that no matter what your parents say or do. It is just UNBELIEVABLE to me that this could happen. I'm so sorry. My gut reaction is to tell you to *disappear completely, never to be found* as far as they are concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katemary63 Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 I'm bowing out of this thread. I merely wanted to assure board members that Cdn laws do not allow relatives to just yank your kids & you'd have no recourse. Non custodial abduction is treated seriously here. As I thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 In Ontario kids don't get to choose who they live with. The parents & judge will decide. http://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov.on.ca/english/family/wheredoi.asp Also, a non parent who wants to obtain custody has to do it through the courts & the parents are the respondents in the case. There would have been a legal process involved. It's not like people can just swoop in. They would have had a fairly involved legal process to become legal guardians. http://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov.on.ca/english/family/divorce/custody/non_parent_custody_applications.asp I'm bowing out of this thread. I merely wanted to assure board members that Cdn laws do not allow relatives to just yank your kids & you'd have no recourse. Non custodial abduction is treated seriously here. That is good to know, thank you for informing us on the law there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephanieF Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 They are visiting you for a reason. What is that reason? If you can work it out then you may beable to prepare yourself better. If you can't then you need to be prepared for anything. I personally would never allow my children to see them. Why should you reward them after all they have done. In a few years time you can explain to your children why they didn't meet them again. If they choose to contact them when they are adults then fine. However I understand why you are meeting them and I would do the same-anything to find out about my son. I wouldn't start the conversation or make any attempts to small talk, I would wait to hear their reason for coming first and be very guarded in what I said. I wouldn't give them the satisfaction of letting them get the upper hand emotionally. Hope you get what you want from the meeting. Stephanie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denisemomof4 Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 My eldest child wouldn't forgive me if I didn't meet with them. They've done so much damage to the relationship btwn he and I, I can't allow more. Screw it. I am saying. Last time my mother was here, my eldest child returned with her, for what was supposed to be a month long visit. He was 12. I haven't seen him since. He refused to come back, and everyone was willing to swear my dh abused him (never, EVER happened...I was abused as a kid, I would leave anyone in a heartbeat if they hurt my kids). My parents bribed him, buying him things we couldn't afford, promising him hockey, football...stuff we couldn't afford. Wolf even was willing to leave our marriage, and we were told it wouldn't matter, he wasn't coming home. According to law, he's allowed to choose where he lives at 12, as long as there is someone willing to be guardian. He's refused to visit us since, out of fear that a) we wouldn't allow him to leave (abso-freaking-lutely) and b) We were used as a threat, how would he like to go back and live 'poor' again? Its because of HIM that I'm going. I won't allow them to make things even worse. I just don't know if I can look them in the face and see them as anything other than those who robbed me of my son. But your oldest dd is now almost that age. Do you think they have ulterior motives? I'm still reading..... but I'm with everyone else. I think you need to protect your three littles. I'm REALLY sorry for your pain over your oldest son, and I hope and pray that relationship can be restored one day. But I'm concerned for you, your dh, and your other children now. I don't think you should allow them near any of you. Still reading.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denisemomof4 Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 it doesn't matter if there's more to the story. It DOES matter what you do now, because your first responsibility has to be to protect your other three kids. You won't see your eldest while with them, I still hope you don't go. I also worry about you giving into false guilt or perhaps fear. I'd stay strong and not allow those toxic people around your children, Please keep us posted. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 I know that your pull to see the son you lost is huge...absolutely gargantuan....but please, having had a friend in a similar situation, please don't do it. My friend did the exact same thing thinking that she was hurting her other children by not allowing the visit and because she so desperately wanted to see the child that they manufactured all the lies about in order to get away from her. Some of the most NPD people I have ever heard of and they ought to be locked in a mental institution somewhere! All that happened was that they attempted the exact same thing in order to get another child for them to completely ruin. It seems that they get their jollies out of this - she ended up back in court but at least that time she won. That said, she almost went bankrupt over the court costs and lawyer fees to keep her child. I'd be so afraid for the hearts of Diva and Tazzie who are at a ripe age to be very confused by these bizarre, mental people. I strongly urge you to go out of town during the time they are attempting to visit. If you don't have much for travel money, a tarp and sleeping bags at a campground would be better than letting them into your life. If you really want to see your son, please consider only doing it at a restaurant in a town away from your home and with a third independent party along, a pastor or deacon (if you are of the Christian faith), trusted friend, paid therapist, hired body guard - not joking here, it's not a bad idea to maybe bring some beefy bouncer dude along, etc. IMP, I'm in Michigan and though I don't know your location, I think I am a long ways from you. Otherwise, I'd go with you and be a very frightful person for them to cross; my inner mamma bear is in full roar on your behalf right now. Please consider getting a restraining order and since I know you and Wolf are looking at trying to buy property, consider renting a PO box when you move and not giving your physical location out to family members. Cell phones or unlisted numbers too! I know you love your son, but right now there is nothing you can do for him. Hopefully, when he is an adult, he will be able to exercise some discernment and figure out that grandma and grandpa are very dangerous people. Faith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denisemomof4 Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 Please consider getting a restraining order and since I know you and Wolf are looking at trying to buy property, consider renting a PO box when you move and not giving your physical location out to family members. Cell phones or unlisted numbers too! Faith ABSOLUTELY :iagree::iagree::iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duckens Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 If anyone other than your parents had taken your son from you against your will, and kept your son from you for 5years, would you now be meeting with them? Would you be taking your younger children along? Don't take the younger kids. And tell your parents that unless your 17yo son will be at the reunion, there is no reason for you to go. Everything else can be handled by mail or email.....which will give you a RECORD of any interactions. "Documentation is your friend." Keep it forever, so if any of your kids ever question the toxicity of the situation, you will have a record. I wish you strength and wisdom in this situation. :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted June 21, 2010 Author Share Posted June 21, 2010 Thank you to those of you who offered support. Yes, there's so many details that I can't get into. However, I *was* told at the time by the RCMP that at the age of 12, I couldn't *force* him home. There's so many things I would have done differently, if I'd known of them. The end result is I've been missing my son for five years, and my parents are the gatekeepers to any communication with him. I miss my son. I love him. I pray for the day he comes home. Sooner or later, he's going to be old enough to see things clearly, and I'm praying that day happens soon. I wish I hadn't given details. I just wanted to be able to talk about my son here. Its painful to try and defend myself about this, to have ppl question what happened, and I should have thought more clearly. I just hurt so much, and needed to reach out. Stupid of me to give so much information, yes. I considered this forum my safe place, and needed to share. Thank you again to those who are supportive. Its very appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 Don't beat yourself up about it IMP! Good gravy, you have been through so much. I am just so sorry that you have to endure something like this and please don't think for a second that I was criticizing you or your decisions. I wouldn't presume to...because I haven't had to walk in your shoes. I was just trying to offer some sound advice during a time when it is otherwise so difficult to have a clear thought. Since I know that you appreciate prayer, I will be praying for you, wolf, the kids, your lost son, and the entire situation. The mamma bear in me would like to beat them senseless with a tire iron though that would not make anything better. Faith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denisemomof4 Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 Thank you to those of you who offered support. Yes, there's so many details that I can't get into. However, I *was* told at the time by the RCMP that at the age of 12, I couldn't *force* him home. There's so many things I would have done differently, if I'd known of them. The end result is I've been missing my son for five years, and my parents are the gatekeepers to any communication with him. I miss my son. I love him. I pray for the day he comes home. Sooner or later, he's going to be old enough to see things clearly, and I'm praying that day happens soon. I wish I hadn't given details. I just wanted to be able to talk about my son here. Its painful to try and defend myself about this, to have ppl question what happened, and I should have thought more clearly. I just hurt so much, and needed to reach out. Stupid of me to give so much information, yes. I considered this forum my safe place, and needed to share. Thank you again to those who are supportive. Its very appreciated. :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: I'm glad you reached out to us here. I know I've shared too much about my youngest dd here. I've gotten a lot of support, though, because of it. I'm sure there are also others who have judged me. Instead of focusing on that, I focus on those who have helped me or who pray for me. I am praying for restoration in your relationship with your son. I'm also praying for him to know the truth about what happened, and the truth about your love for him, the truth about your toxic parents. Again, don't give in to false guilt or fear. No matter what happened in the past, it's in the past. It's time to think of the present, and what to do for your other three children. :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakia Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 Thank you to those of you who offered support. Yes, there's so many details that I can't get into. However, I *was* told at the time by the RCMP that at the age of 12, I couldn't *force* him home. There's so many things I would have done differently, if I'd known of them. The end result is I've been missing my son for five years, and my parents are the gatekeepers to any communication with him. I miss my son. I love him. I pray for the day he comes home. Sooner or later, he's going to be old enough to see things clearly, and I'm praying that day happens soon. I wish I hadn't given details. I just wanted to be able to talk about my son here. Its painful to try and defend myself about this, to have ppl question what happened, and I should have thought more clearly. I just hurt so much, and needed to reach out. Stupid of me to give so much information, yes. I considered this forum my safe place, and needed to share. Thank you again to those who are supportive. Its very appreciated. Don't beat yourself up. We all need a safe place to go sometimes. The fact is that nobody here knows what you have been through. :grouphug::grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caitilin Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: Imp. Thinking of you.:grouphug::grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2cents Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 I hope things work out ok and that you can be reunited with your son soon. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 (edited) my parents are the gatekeepers to any communication with him. Is that really true? He's nearly 18. He can look up your number. I think they are more like bouncers. If he won't speak to you unless you go meet with your parents, then there is no reasoning with him because sheer will power on your side isn't enough. The prodigal son returning home was his own doing, not his parents', wasn't it? I bet they spent all that time praying as hard as they could pray. :grouphug: Rosie Edited June 22, 2010 by Rosie_0801 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dansamy Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 Thank you to those of you who offered support. Yes, there's so many details that I can't get into. However, I *was* told at the time by the RCMP that at the age of 12, I couldn't *force* him home. There's so many things I would have done differently, if I'd known of them. The end result is I've been missing my son for five years, and my parents are the gatekeepers to any communication with him. I miss my son. I love him. I pray for the day he comes home. Sooner or later, he's going to be old enough to see things clearly, and I'm praying that day happens soon. I wish I hadn't given details. I just wanted to be able to talk about my son here. Its painful to try and defend myself about this, to have ppl question what happened, and I should have thought more clearly. I just hurt so much, and needed to reach out. Stupid of me to give so much information, yes. I considered this forum my safe place, and needed to share. Thank you again to those who are supportive. Its very appreciated. :grouphug: :grouphug: Aww. I hope you don't think I was being unsupportive. I know that a situation like the limited details we have is a big, deep chasm of pain. I really don't think I'd have anything to do with those people (because they certainly aren't "parents") except for a "FOAD" letter, sent certified, return receipt requested. (FOAD = "eff" off and die) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lollie010 Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 I wish I hadn't given details. I just wanted to be able to talk about my son here. Its painful to try and defend myself about this, to have ppl question what happened, and I should have thought more clearly. I just hurt so much, and needed to reach out. Please don't think you have to defend yourself or your decisions. I am a lawyer and could sit here all day discussing the many legal issues, but I know that to you and your family that just doesn't matter right now. As you know sometimes justice is served and sometimes it is not. You are a strong and courageous woman. You will make the right choice. I am amazed at what people can and do endure in a single lifetime, and you my dear, though I don't know you, have endured more than imaginable. Please care for yourself. Make your decision and then go forward without guilt or regret. Praying for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terabith Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 The sad fact is no more damage can be done beyond whats already happened. Be careful when saying that. I've come to the conclusion, sadly, that more damage can ALWAYS be done. And in this case, the damage that is likely to be done is to your children. I'm sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terabith Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 OMG. I hadn't read far enough when I posted. I am so, SO sorry. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willow Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 Imp, I am beyond stunned. Your strength and courage is amazing. you must do as you feel right. I will pray for you, wolf, your boy and your little ones. I am weeping as I type this, I cannot even begin to imagine your pain. Willow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwg Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 I wish that hugs were enough right now :grouphug::grouphug: I do not know you so I hesitate to respond since you are feeling so vulnerable and regretful for sharing. (I have btdt, not here but other places) My heart really goes out to you and your family :grouphug: I am wondering if you feel like you have to meet with them, can you do it with either a therapist or minister or lawyer or......someone? NOT a friend but a professional. (Please?????) Because I agree that there is a reason they are bringing this up now and I do not think it can be a pure one. And then if you feel the children need to, same person. Supervised visits all the way. I think it would help to protect you and all of your children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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