Anybody adopt a toddler?

[bethben]

We adopted a 2 year old girl from China 8 months ago now. She is currently 3. We are having a TOUGH time disciplining her. She just doesn't seem to get that what she does is wrong and we don't want her to do it again. The little issues here or there are annoying, but the worst is when she continually gets herself in danger...like climbing too high in the playfort, running across the street when we turn our backs for a second, and lately, running outside to visit the dog and baby next door. Now we know - great! she can open locks too. We've been giving her some time outs in her crib since some of it seems to be wanting exclusive attention from us, but she just doesn't seem to understand and will continually go back to doing what is wrong. It's getting to a point when we can't let her outside even with our supervision because it's exhausting keeping up with her and she can be very fast.

 

I know she aquiring a sense of right and wrong because lately, she's been hiding stuff behind her back and coming up to me with a guilty look on her face as if she's saying "i shouldn't have this".

 

She's well bonded with us and definately prefers us to others. We have no medical records on her so have no idea what her mother's life was like. Most likely her mother was poor/rural.

 

Any advice? We really don't want secular psycological mumbo jumbo - but want a Christian perspective. We are praying for grace and a lot of it...

 

Beth

[Tap]

Honestly, she just sounds like a normal toddler. Some are easy, some are hard. She sounds like she may be on the more difficult side. My ds15 was so easy to parent. He liked to follow rules and is still that way. If you drew a line in the sand and said don't cross it, he would stay a good 2 feet on his side, just for good measure. DD11 would have put her toes on the line, but not crossed it. She always has to know exactly how far the line is from her, but respects it. DD3 (came to us a 6mths/foster-adopt) would go over the line, or throw a huge fit on the line, just because there IS a line. No other reason. LOL I don't think it has to do with anything other than personality. DD3 is my bio-great niece and her grandmother (my sister) and bio-mother (my niece) have the same personalities.

 

We just have to make sure that the rules are very strictly enforced at all times, as she doesn't do well with variable rules. She reacts before she thinks, and so does her bio-family. This is why they don't have custody of her LOLOLOL.

 

At 3.5 dd3 is finally getting some of the basic family rules down and doing better with concepts that my older kids understood at 2yo. BUT, she is learning and we have always seen that when we redirect her and it finally clicks....she really understands it. It just takes a lot more discipline and guidance that I was used to with my older kids.

 

One thing I am sure is a factor of us is that dd3 sees her siblings doing things, and assumes she can too. Things like 'running across the street'. With my older kids, I didn't have that issue. DS15 was just old enough to model good behavior for dd11. When DS15 was a little one, he didn't have anyone else breaking the rules to see it happening in the first place. DD3 sees them going where ever, when ever and thinks she can too. That is a hard one to explain to her.

[Lara in Colo]

honestly is sounds like you have an intelligent, outgoing 2 yr old. Congratulations!!!! I raised 4 of them. I'd like to say it gets better, but it doesn't---it just changes forms as they age. I have to watch all my children like a hawk. They aren't bad, they aren't afaid of anything and whatever list of "Don't" I come up with, they come up with something new and completely off the wall.

"When I let you go for walk around the block do not knock on the neighbor's house we've never met as ask to pet his dog. Do not go to the neighbor and pull her ripe garden plants and leave them at her front door."

 

After a while you'll enjoy the way her mind works, you'll admire her lack of fear and you'll count the grey hair as a badge of the battle to keep her safe.

 

Lara

[bagel270]

Man, you got lucky with your other kids.:) Yeah, she's three. Some three year olds are like that. Be consistent, get locks up high on your doors, and pray she doesn't hurt herself.

[nono]

Yes, and I wouldn't "time out" an adopted child. How does taking away what she's demonstrating to you she needs more of get you to détente? ;) (Please don't read the previous sentence harshly -- it wasn't written in that spirit.) I prefer to use "time in."

 

What's time in? Not my invention, for sure, but making the child come sit close to you and not be able to leave to go do anything else. I had to use it extensively with both of my children at certain points. They would have to sit right next to me or on me, and I'd explain to them why I couldn't let them do what they were wanting to do. "A good Mommy doesn't let her child go outside by him/herself." "A good Mommy keeps a baby's diaper changed so that the baby is dry." You know, whatever it was that day. I put the focus on me though, v. them. Me being a good/bad Mommy v. them being good/bad children.

 

Yes, it is a pain, and yes, you'd rather be doing other things. But, as I remind my husband, it is best to deal with children's problems when they are little and the problems are more manageable.

 

As a very Christian woman told me when I adopted my first, "G*d equips the children to know what they need. It is up to us, as parents, to listen." That really stuck with me.

 

And, from someone further down the path, it doesn't last forever. You think it will, but it doesn't. Give the child enough to make her secure, and she will spread her wings, with care and caution! Hang in there!

 

It's very hard work.

Edited June 2, 2010 by nono

[bethben]

I never would, but I really would like to tie her to a dog run - put a leash on her back and give her a wire she can run along. That way both her and I could have a little freedom in life:glare:. I know she would never learn how to listen to me - besides, social services would be here so quick. I already have one of those "you can buy at Target" kid leashes so that she doesn't run away from me when I'm pushing her brother in his wheelchair. Oy vey!

Beth

[nono]

I never would, but I really would like to tie her to a dog run - put a leash on her back and give her a wire she can run along. That way both her and I could have a little freedom in life:glare:. I know she would never learn how to listen to me - besides, social services would be here so quick. I already have one of those "you can buy at Target" kid leashes so that she doesn't run away from me when I'm pushing her brother in his wheelchair. Oy vey!

Beth

 

:lol::lol::lol:

 

P.S. I was coming back here to say, once you've made up for the lost time, you can actually use time outs...I don't think we'd be through our first year of homeschooling without them. ;)

 

(Still not there with my younger, but he's only 3...)

[Sophia]

"When I let you go for walk around the block do not knock on the neighbor's house we've never met as ask to pet his dog. Do not go to the neighbor and pull her ripe garden plants and leave them at her front door."

 

 

Lara

 

:lol:

Oh my word. I have two little boys who are lengthening my list of don'ts.

'Don't punch holes in your closet to make a tunnel to your sister's closet" and "Don't take all the spindles off the front porch" are the latest additions. sigh.

 

Op, my dc aren't adopted, but your 3 y.o.'s behavior sounds sooo much like my youngest...except he added horrific tantrums to the mix. :ack2:

[MaMa2005]

Our son was 26 months when he came home from China. We instituted 2 different discipline policies. We count to 3 when he is doing something inappropriate (or not doing what we ask) and I mean we count quickly. If he doesn't stop, he is immediately put into time out. Our time out is standing with your face against the wall. We know from raising 2 other children that 'The Wall' is portable. No matter where you are, there is always a wall (even if sometimes that means a large tree trunk :)). Some offenses go immediately to time out. We are extremely strict and he learned pretty quickly that we meant business.

 

Our biggest issue was that he had never been told 'no' before we got him. He was the little emperor in his orphanage.

 

Be strict - it does pay off. DS just turned 5 and is an absolute joy to be around. It's nice to see that some of my days playing 'meanest mom' have been successful.

 

No flames please! All three of our children are adopted and this has worked for us three times. Our oldest 2 are 32 and 38, successful and respectful, faithful to God and still looking to Mom and Dad for advice :hurray:

 

Good luck!

[bethben]

...except he added horrific tantrums to the mix. :ack2:

 

Yup - got those too. She's really good at them.

Beth

[JudoMom]

I never would, but I really would like to tie her to a dog run - put a leash on her back and give her a wire she can run along. That way both her and I could have a little freedom in life:glare:. I know she would never learn how to listen to me - besides, social services would be here so quick. I already have one of those "you can buy at Target" kid leashes so that she doesn't run away from me when I'm pushing her brother in his wheelchair. Oy vey!

Beth

 

I wasn't sure my 4th son would survive when he was 2/3 years old (we had one of those leashes for him, too...don't do this ;)). He was much like your dd, and very, very exhausting. He was fast and had no impulse control and it was scary. We were consistent (as consistent as possible when dealing with someone so exhausting) with discipline and with our love, and while he still struggles at 6, we see definite improvement with impulse control, and sometime during his 4th year I stopped fearing for his safety. He still takes 75% of our parenting energy, but he's so much fun and such a delight. :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[ElaineJ]

I have an adopted toddler. He came to us at 13 months and will be turning 3 in August. I totally agree with the "time ins" instead of time outs. I didn't do that with my older two birth children (although it might have been a good thing, especially for one of them), but I can see how being physically connected to me in times of stress is very important for this little guy. Also, we were told to count our son's emotional/ developmental age from the time he entered our family rather than from birth. In other words, expect him to act more like an almost 2 year old than an almost 3 year old. I'm sure this does not apply to every case, as each child's needs are different, but we have found it to hold fairly true for our little one. Thinking this way has helped me to give him more grace with immature responses and to see the light at the end of the proverbial tunnel when I feel that I need more space. Our kids have been through a lot, and spending your first year or two in an orphanage is going to give you different needs and responses than someone who started out in a healthy family setting. You sound like a great mom. Hang in there! :grouphug: I have found it very helpful to be in dialogue with other parents of adopted children for support, advice and encouragement. Blessings to you and your family-

 

Elaine

[Debora R]

Sounds like you have a bored toddler on your hands. I know it's exhausting, but helping her stay engaged will help.

 

Perhaps, you could focus on letting her know what/when she CAN Do things..... For example, You worry that she climbs too high on the play set, could you change the rules a little? Give her a time when it's okay to climb past a certain point, even encourage her: "spot" for her and let her climb? It's what I do with mine, and now he will wait till I'm there before going really high....and he's got a such an "I can do it" sense of accomplishment when he gets to the top and I'm proud of him rather than angry..... plus I'm right there to catch him or help him as needed.

 

DS has a monkey harness that he wears whenever we are out and about. I don't always hold the monkey's tail, but it's tucked into the harness pocket so that I can grab it if he gets out of hand.

 

Another thing that helped us - we just installed safety flip latches high up on the exterior doors. Now he can't let himself outside.

 

 

I Do hope things improve for your family :grouphug:

[DaffodilDreams]

Yes, and I wouldn't "time out" an adopted child. How does taking away what she's demonstrating to you she needs more of get you to détente? ;) (Please don't read the previous sentence harshly -- it wasn't written in that spirit.) I prefer to use "time in."

 

What's time in? Not my invention, for sure, but making the child come sit close to you and not be able to leave to go do anything else. I had to use it extensively with both of my children at certain points. They would have to sit right next to me or on me, and I'd explain to them why I couldn't let them do what they were wanting to do. "A good Mommy doesn't let her child go outside by him/herself." "A good Mommy keeps a baby's diaper changed so that the baby is dry." You know, whatever it was that day. I put the focus on me though, v. them. Me being a good/bad Mommy v. them being good/bad children.

 

Yes, it is a pain, and yes, you'd rather be doing other things. But, as I remind my husband, it is best to deal with children's problems when they are little and the problems are more manageable.

 

As a very Christian woman told me when I adopted my first, "G*d equips the children to know what they need. It is up to us, as parents, to listen." That really stuck with me.

 

And, from someone further down the path, it doesn't last forever. You think it will, but it doesn't. Give the child enough to make them secure, and she will spread her wings, with care and caution! Hang in there!

 

It's very hard work.

 

:iagree:Thank you, thank you for finding the words to state this w/out sounding harsh. I wanted to say the same thing about the time-outs/time-ins, but I wasn't sure how to phrase my thoughts. We learned the hard way that the absolute last thing an adopted child needs is time physically apart from the parent(s). There are so many things we'd do differently if we had the chance. Thank goodness we learned quickly and changed what we could before it was too late.

 

To the OP: As for bonding, we mistook clinginess and parental preference for secure bonding when it was, in fact, anxiety. anxiety + time outs = not a good thing - - That was our situation. I hope your situation is true bonding, but if you've only had her for 8 months out of her almost three years of life, in my experience as an AP, you still have quite a ways to go.

[plansrme]

We used this with my then-18 month old, adopted at 15 mos., and it worked beautifully and just like the book said it would. Holding Time is an intense time-in. There is a summary in an article at www.attach-china.org. The book describes it as a cure for autism, so I believe it is quite controversial because of that, but for minor attachment issues with adopted children, it has substantial merit.

 

Not that I am diagnosing your child with attachment issues! My daughter also was very attached to us, but out of desperation, I used the holding time exercise when she had tantrums or was just generally a pill, and it worked. I only had to do it a few times before she got to what I considered a normal level of toddlerness.

 

Terri

[plansrme]

If you think his behavior is outside normal toddlerness (I know, not a word, but should be), it probably is, and you are right to look for ways to treat it. Mama instinct rules!

 

Terri

[Starr]

I wouldn't leave my children unattended outside at 3. I even hired a highschool girl to watch dd after church at age 4 while we were socializing. My db could open any lock and would take off at 2 or 3. You may have adoption issues to work out but also some kids are difficult. Here's a :grouphug: and a prayer.

[Sasharowan]

Honestly, she just sounds like a normal toddler. Some are easy, some are hard. She sounds like she may be on the more difficult side. My ds15 was so easy to parent. He liked to follow rules and is still that way. If you drew a line in the sand and said don't cross it, he would stay a good 2 feet on his side, just for good measure. DD11 would have put her toes on the line, but not crossed it. She always has to know exactly how far the line is from her, but respects it. DD3 (came to us a 6mths/foster-adopt) would go over the line, or throw a huge fit on the line, just because there IS a line. No other reason. LOL I don't think it has to do with anything other than personality. DD3 is my bio-great niece and her grandmother (my sister) and bio-mother (my niece) have the same personalities.

I had to laugh at this. It is sooooo like my kids. Ds14 would stand well away from the line, dd would be on the line yelling that the line is unfair and she should be allowed to cross it. Ds9 will go searching for the end of the line so he could go around it and not "cross" the line. Ds4 would not only run back and forth across the line, but would erase it so the others could go with him (which would leave ds14 still standing there saying "You know what Mom said." The only one we are actually surprised about is ds14, neither dh nor I are good at following rules.

[Denisemomof4]

I would say to keep an eye on it. If you believe there's something more to the behaviors than normal toddler behaviors, you're probably right. Trust your mommy gut. I got told ALL THE TIME that my adopted dd's behaviors were normal - THEY WERE NOT. I *still* get told they're normal - THEY ARE NOT. I've raised 3 bio kids and my youngest, my adopted, has more troubling behaviors, pushes our buttons on a daily basis, is as sneaky as they come, passive aggressive, etc. I could go on and on.

 

But what you need to understand is raising a child with attachment issues is challenging and different. They may be experiencing normal toddler behaviors, but it's the FREQUENCY and INTENSITY which they display that sets them apart from other normal toddlers.

 

Have you read any books on attaching in adoption? Attachment issues? You MAY be having normal toddler behaviors, but if you take an honest look at signs of attachment ISSUES (not a full blown attachment disorder or RAD, which is what my dd has) you may see them in your dd. And the younger you can reach her to work on them, the better off you'll ALL be.

 

The best thing I can recommend is to forget her biological age and revert her back to her infancy. HOld her and rock her, rub her cheeks, stare lovingly into her eyes, sing to her, hold her like an infant, give her a bottle (yes, even at this age - put a treat in it like watered down juice). I spent HOURS doing this every day and my dd LOVED it. She didn't want it at first but very quickly she started to ask for it.

 

I haven't read the other responses.... but am sharing from my experience alone. My dd was 14 months when we got her and is now 7 and at the age your dd was, I was absolutely CERTAIN something was very wrong. And I remain certain of that to this day. It's a very, very hard job, one that I don't see why God felt I was fit to do.

 

There are so many good books out there to help you. Please do your research!

[alpidarkomama]

We adopted a 2-year-old from Ethiopia (and a baby!), but really what you're describing is most likely normal behavior (and, yes, exhausting!). My daughter is now 4 and used to get into all kinds of "trouble." Ran me ragged! :) Things that helped: exploring things and taking things apart WITH her; aerobic exercise (great for all of us!) and dancing; a lot of reading; answering all of her "why" questions; asking her lots of questions about what we were looking at; and giving good reasons for why we don't do certain things. (Really what we do with all of our children anyway...)

 

Now that my daughter is four it's getting so much easier. She's still intensely curious about things and very quick thinking, but in general she's been channeling most of her curiosity and "inspirations" for good. :) My 2 bio kids went through the same stages. I think 3 is WAY harder than 2!

[Denisemomof4]

one other important thing. Keep a VERY close eye on her with her activity. My dd would take incredible risks (climbing/hanging/swinging/etc you name it!) and was ALWAYS getting hurt, especially always hitting her head. This is also a symptom of an orphanage kid who was under stimulated, and also a symptom of a child with attachment issues. Again, you keep an eye on it, do your research, and take an honest look at her to determine what is "normal" and what is not.

[Tap]

I posted that it seems like typical toddlerdom to me but after I posted I started thinking more about where we have been with dd3. She is in behavior therapy and OT. I have spent more time researching adoption related issues and parenting in these past 3 years, than all the 15 prior combined.

 

 

One thing that really helped me by reading parenting/adoption books, was to gather a language set, that helped me to really look at dd3's activities in a different way and to be able to verbalize what I felt was typical vs. what was wayyy over the top for a 3yo.

 

If your instinct is telling you 'something is different', then I would listen to that inner wisdom and pursue an education for yourself to put it in perspective. You mention not wanting "secular psychological mumbo jumbo". But if you can't find the answer with prayer or in Christian books/advice/teachings , you may need to open your definition up and start looking for some different options. Just because something is secular, doesn't mean that it isn't just as thoughtful as a Christian approach. It just means that the writer/developer didn't use Christian words throughout. You can intersperse what ever your faith system is, into just about anything that is secular. I have never found an author that I agreed with 100% whether Christian/secular or any other faith or foundation. I have always combined what I have learned from many, many sources into my parenting skil set.

 

 

The words you use to describe her behaviors to me are very typical behaviors and ones that I used myself in the beginning to describe dd3. It wasn't until I really started reading and researching, that I acquired the language skills to really describe and mentally categorize 'how' dd3 behaviors were different.

 

I could have described dd3 (two at the time) with 'horrible, nasty 30 minute long tantrums'. While that did describe them, once I found the words "unrelenting, self-injurious to the point of scars/blood, violently aggressive, flailing with malice against anything/one around her, screeching with anger, willful destruction, black-angry-non-engaged-empty-eyes ..... it helped me to describe that her 'horrible' tantrums, were a bit more than what a 'typical toddler' usually exudes. It also helped to me see what was typical toddler behavior and when her behavior was over the top.

 

So, while you may not want 'secular...mumbo/jumbo' if you find that your words lack the intensity to describe what you truly see, feel free to post again being open to secular input on the behaviors, and maybe we can all help offer you some literature or suggestions that you may find helpful.

 

If you feel that you are receiving adequate advice and you have a peace about what direction your headed with her.....please don't think I am minimizing that, I just wanted to give you another point of view.

[TwinMominTX]

I recently adopted a 4 year old and have some sympathy. With mine I sort of assumed it was because he is a boy - I only had girls before.

 

I also suspect that he didn't have a great deal of supervision in his daily play before we adopted him. Whereas, my girls were told what to do and not do from the time they were teeny tiny and they gradually learned what was acceptable and not acceptable. Of course, they did crazy things too, but son seems to have a different regard for his own sense of safety than my other children did at a similar age.

[bethben]

I see her as a child that just needs a lot of activity and is very curious about everything. When she wants to do something, she just does it. She is starting to have issues with our authority (which means she tries hitting us) which has happened with all of my abled kids - just not to the duration in time she has. She knows not to hit mommy, so she just swipes the air in my direction. There are little things too - like licking water out of the toliet when we've told her yucky (over and over and over)...I can see in her eyes she's not being willful, she just wanted some water and the toliet was closest. I'm really not seeing attatchment issues or ultra clingyness. She's really acting like our bio kiddos at that age. It's really how she just doesn't get it and keeps going back to doing things that we've told her over and over not to do.

 

I think she may just be a little emotionally younger due to her orphanage years. She's caught up in every other area almost. My friend says she has a 1 1/2 year old much like her. We hang out together during field trips and stay close and commiserate. I told her we should get them together and they can use their dollies and electrical outlets to burn up my house:tongue_smilie:.

 

Beth

[Osmosis Mom]

:lol:

Oh my word. I have two little boys who are lengthening my list of don'ts.

'Don't punch holes in your closet to make a tunnel to your sister's closet" and "Don't take all the spindles off the front porch" are the latest additions. sigh.

 

Op, my dc aren't adopted, but your 3 y.o.'s behavior sounds sooo much like my youngest...except he added horrific tantrums to the mix. :ack2:

 

I agree with what the others have said as I am living through horrific toddlerhood myself right now!! Be patient, suddenly one day she'll start listening to you and you'll be amazed. In the meantime, stay busy and cautious, but don't alienate her from you...

[MeanestMomInMidwest]

How is her language acquisition? Is she fluent in English or are you fluent in her native language so that you may be sure that even though she may say words, she truly understands language?

[hornblower]

See, it seems to me to BE an attachment issue when a young child won't take direction from a parent. Yeah, kids can and do disobey when temptation is too strong, or they've forgotten, or they get into trouble because they haven't been told not to do that (b/e nobody has considered that they would tunnel through the closet - I love that one!)

 

BUT

 

if you're having to tell her over & over again - I dunno. Sometimes that's normal, but sometimes that's a kid who's not hearing you b/e they're not attached enough to consider what you're saying is relevant and important.

 

A youngster HAS to be attuned to elders for guidance otherwise most youngsters (of most mammalian species) would not survive infancy.

 

I would work this as an attachment issue & not do time out's but rather do time-in's and keep her very close to you at all times.

[FlockOfSillies]

I never would, but I really would like to tie her to a dog run - put a leash on her back and give her a wire she can run along. That way both her and I could have a little freedom in life:glare:.

 

LOL, my grandmother did this with my father and his twin brother (kids #8 and #9). She'd be hanging up the wash and they'd be safe, but somewhat free to roam. I don't think anyone bothered her about it, but that was a different era.

[juelle]

Hang in there and be really firm with love. My cousins came from China both around their 1st birthdays. Anything they did was always excused with refence to their orphanage time. They're now extremely demanding and needy 10 and 12 year olds. Your first job is to protect your dd - from herself, if need be. That being said, I'm not looking forward to having a 2yr old running me around again, but it's coming fast!

 

Praying for yours and mine :grouphug: !

[bethben]

I always tell my boys that having a princess running around is one thing - but princesses grow up into queens and we don't need a queen ruling the house. So, no princesses here - just sons and daughters.

Beth