S/O food issues-dd10 wants to be vegetarian and dh and I don't think it's wise

[HappyGrace]

We've humored her and tried to support her and not said a word for the last few months, thinking it would fade away. But it's not going away! Dh and I strongly want her to eat meat because

1. She is chronically VERY ill with Lyme disease and her immune system is having a terrible time fighting it off

2. We are too wiped out to try to figure out how to make sure she is getting what she needs as a vegetarian. Besides the emotional toll of dd being so sick for months and months, and dh also has Lyme, and we're not sure what's going on with his job, have been having car issues, plus homeschooling, and on and on. We are so burned out. I just don't have it in me to sit down and figure out how to do this vegetarian thing. We eat organic and very healthy (raw milk, whole foods-no processed, grind own wheat and make bread, etc), and have many meatless meals anyway. I just can't make that leap right now to ensure her health with totally veg. I'm too wiped out. I know there are ways obviously to get all you need as a vegetarian, but honestly, I just can't cope with figuring that out right now.

 

I know especially with girls though, food can become a control issue. And she is just the type of girl-strong willed, type A, etc. I do NOT want to make this an issue but I want to make sure she is healthy. She is thankfully still eating dairy and eggs.

 

I looked at the library at books for young vegetarians, thinking this could be a project for her-figuring out how to make sure her diet consists of all that she needs (and I would purchase and prepare, of course) but all the books are so PRO vegetarian and giving reasons for it that she probably never even though of and I don't want to give her more fodder for this.

 

PLEASE don't misunderstand me-I am not anti-vegetarian. Maybe at some point we could go this route-we aren't that far off it even now due to dh's heart attack a couple yrs ago. But dd's doc doesn't think this is beneficial for her health just now, and I don't have the strength to give her the support to make sure she's healthy enough with it. But you can't make someone eat what they don't want to eat, and I don't want to do that or even anything close to that and end up with food issues. HELP!

[Mergath]

I guess, for me, it would depend on why she wants to stop eating meat. If she wants to switch to a vegetarian diet for health or weight reasons, I'd put my foot down, and just keep reminding her that you're concerned about her health, too. If she wants to switch for ethical reasons, however, I think I would find a way to make it work. You don't want to come across as not wanting to put in the effort to allow her to live in a way she feels is right.

 

I was a vegetarian for several years, btw, and it's not as hard as it might sound. I just made sure to have a veg protein source once or twice a day, and other than that, ate about the same.

[Joanne]

I know especially with girls though, food can become a control issue. And she is just the type of girl-strong willed, type A, etc. I do NOT want to make this an issue but I want to make sure she is healthy. She is thankfully still eating dairy and eggs.

 

It sounds like you are mixing issues and complicating things.

 

Honestly, being a healthy vegetarian (or ominivore for that matter) isn't complicated. I wouldn't bring attention and energy to it at all. I wouldn't make it a "deal" or a "project" or anythoing.

 

If she's eating dairy and eggs, she's got protein. Does she also eat nuts or nut butters or beans? Healthy fats? Does she eat whole grains, fruits and/or veggies?

 

I'd make a shopping list with her of healthy foods she'll eat, stock up and let her eat from those choices. I'd minimize or eliminate my influence and input and make it a non issue.

 

You can't and shouldn't make her eat meat.

[gingersmom]

My 13 year old does not eat meat and eats chicken maybe once a month (maybe 2 ounces at most). She is healthy as can be.

 

I don't eat meat either and have never had health issues because of it. You would be surprised at how you get vitamins/minerals and other healthy stuff from the foods you normally eat/drink.

 

You could also ask her doctor if there is a vitamin supplement she should be taking.

[LibraryLover]

I have no problems helping family members eat vegetarian. I admit I find vegan a little more tricky, but that's my issue. Vegetarianism is simple to accommodate.

 

My youngest son was a vegetarian for a time, and my 10 yr old has flat-out stated that she will not eat any meat (we raise chickens, chicken is meat lol)that we don't respectfully raise. She's never had a happy meal.

Edited March 11, 2010 by LibraryLover

[amy g.]

My almost 14 year old has been a vegetarian since he was 3. He has always been healthy.

[HappyGrace]

It is for ethical reasons.

 

I know I'm making too much of it and she'll be fine. Just try to understand that I've been under incredible pressure lately, watching dd be SO so ill, to the point she could barely get out of bed due to pain, etc., for months on end (this was back in Dec and Jan when the illness was really terrible.) Friends are telling me I look so tired and drawn-I'm just burned out.

 

And I know that kids can be healthy and vegetarian-I'm not debating that at all. But I'm sure that in those cases the parents are vigilant about making sure they get the right proteins, etc., and I just can't figure all that out right now.

 

The responses so far are helping me to see that it doesn't have to be that big a deal-just provide choices and let her have at it and hope for the best. Thanks for the reassurance!

Edited March 11, 2010 by HappyGrace

[TracyR]

I agree with the poster above me. If she does not want to eat meat I wouldn't force it on her. It sounds like she is getting protein already. Foods such as cheese, beans, eggs, nuts and nut butters( such as Almond Butter all contain protein.

There is no need to make a big deal out of it or make it some huge project. Just add in those things when you go shopping.

I'm also confused as to how eating meat would help her immune system. From literature I've been reading lately its being said that meat is a carcinogen and that it should be eaten sparingly. Like once or twice a week.

Vegetarian diets have been proven to be MUCH, MUCH healthier in the long term. Vegetarians are more likely not to suffer heart problems/high cholesterol/high blood pressure etc. So really if she has Lymes disease a vegetarian diet would only benefit her. My brother in law has Lymes disease and his is very delbilitating.

Meat is an animal product. Any animal product produces cholestrol in the body. Plant and grain do not.

 

I would be enthusiastic if my daughters would eat more vegetables. Getting my oldest to eat any vegtable is like pulling teeth. Me on the other hand I love all of them :>) I do eat some meat( chicken, fish, and everyonce in a while meat) but don't very often.

 

As long as you add some protein in her diet she'll be fine. Even better if everyone gave it a try you would all be healthier for it!

 

As for the tiredness for you. You need to go out and start doing something for yourself. Coming from a mom who has a child with physical health needs. It is very easy to get caught up in caring for your child and leaving yourself out to the door step. If you don't stop now it will end up causing YOU health problems in the end. Trust me. I'm paying the piper so to speak right now.

If your that tired its time to rest, get some exercise, eat well and find some friends to get out and talk to or do something with. Have a family member babysit even if you just go out to get a cup of coffee. Go shopping.

I find going to our YMCA and zoning out on the tredmill for an hour is very theraputic. But take care of yourself. Don't let her eating habits force you over the deep end. But dealing with her health problems will.

Edited March 11, 2010 by TracyR

[EthiopianFood]

Your doctor doesn't understand a vegetarian diet.

 

You want to make this easy? Make sure she has a grain and one of the following with each meal: dairy, eggs, and/or beans. There you go, she has her protein taken care of. Give her a multivitamin with iron every day. That will cover the rest, if you don't want a bunch of tips on natural sources.

 

ETA: Make sure she is getting good sources of healthful fats, something that you are probably already doing.

 

That's it. Really.

Edited March 11, 2010 by RaeAnne

[ThatCyndiGirl]

How about showing her how to take care of her meals herself? A rice cooker and a crockpot full of beans and BAM! you have a complete protein.

 

You said that you already eat a lot of meatless meals.

 

I get that you have a lot on your plate right now, but especially in light of the fact that you acknowledged that teenage girls can make food issues a hill to die on..........I would do everything in my power to be positive and upbeat about this....including letting her read library books about it.

[Rosie_0801]

There seems to be an assumption that an omnivore is checking all their nutritional boxes, but from what I've read (all over the place, nothing in particular) omnivores are usually deficient in iron, calcium and iodine. There is nothing in meat that your daughter won't get from the rest of your very healthy diet. From what you've said, you don't have to do anything you are not already doing. (Doctors generally know less about nutrition than the average interested mother, so don't count the doctor as an expert here.)

 

Rosie

[ConnieB]

I would hire a Registered Dietician. First I would talk with them privately and let them know your concerns....be sure that they are neither pro nor anti vegetarian, so that both you and your daughter can trust them. Then have them meet with both you and your daughter and talk about the importance of getting enough protein, calcium etc. The dietican should be able to guide your daughter through the requirements that she needs in order to stay healthy and continue this very important growth period in her young life. The dietican should be able to provide not just lists of foods but recipes and other information about proper nutrition that will meet both your needs and your daughters. And I'd make it clear to my daughter that I'll support her desire to not eat meat so long as she takes responsibility to ensure that she is getting all the nutrients that she should. 10 may be a bit young for that much responsibility, but I would put it on her anyway (knowing that I can and will step in as necessary, but you may be amazed at what she can do IF she is truly committed to this way of life and it's not solely a control mom issue, lol).

 

I've watched many young ladies go through horrific eating disorders, some to the point of serious health threats, so I would be extremely reluctant to make food such a big issue with my daughter that her strong willed tendencies could move perhaps a simple desire to not eat meat into some head strong "me vs them" episode that can quickly spiral out of control. By putting the tools in her hand through the dietician and the responsibility for it as well, hopefully it won't turn into a major issue.

 

It's also high time she learns to cook (10 is a perfect age) so that some of the burden of HER choice in lifestyle goes on her shoulders. Hey, we homeschool, everything is educational. Again the dietician should be able to provide many recipes and food choices, and there are also many vegetarian cookbooks that are simply that....recipes and not long discussion books about the whys and wherefores of this choice. I have several vegetarian cookbooks, not because I don't eat meat, but because they have wonderful ways to fix healthy meals and side dishes for those times we want to cut back on meat....and the do not preach the lifestyle, they simply present the food preparation and recipes. A trip to a good bookstore (like Barnes and Noble or Borders) or perhaps even your local library would afford you the chance to leaf through them first and avoid the lectures.

 

Here are a few you may want to review:

 

Quick Fix Vegetarian by Robin Roberston ( I also have her vegetarian slow cooker book but can't lay hands on it for exact title)

 

Student's Vegtarian Cookbook by Carol Raymond

 

The Everything Vegetarian Cookbook (from the same people who do all the other Everything book series).

 

 

There is also a series of books about the Moosehead Restaurant that I have...might be old enough to be out of date ....but I also can't find those right this minute to find the author or to look through to see if they lecture.

Edited March 11, 2010 by ConnieB
fix grammar and spelling, sorry!

[HappyGrace]

You want to make this easy? Make sure she has a grain and one of the following with each meal: dairy, eggs, and/or beans. There you go, she has her protein taken care of.

 

This is what I need-simple, done. Making up a cheat sheet for the fridge for her:

grain plus dairy

OR

grain plus eggs

OR

grain plus nuts/seeds

OR

grain plus beans

-Add fruits/veg

 

Thank you! I was making this way too complicated in my brain fog!

 

And I agree-I do need to take better care of myself too, thanks!

Edited March 11, 2010 by HappyGrace

[HappyGrace]

Rosie-it's not really so much the meat, I guess. It's that I see her just eating mainly carbs at this point-not well-balanced, very little protein.

 

Connie-excellent points-she is very mature, very able to take this on-has been making our sourdough bread from scratch since she was six (except for me putting it in the over, at that age!) I'm going to do the cheat sheet on the fridge and get her some good simple cookbooks, and help as needed. (Can't really afford the dietician right now-great idea though!)

[Joanne]

This is what I need-simple, done. Making up a cheat sheet for the fridge for her:

grain plus dairy

OR

grain plus eggs

OR

grain plus nuts/seeds

OR

grain plus beans

-Add fruits/veg

 

Thank you! I was making this way too complicated in my brain fog!

 

And I agree-I do need to take better care of myself too, thanks!

 

I'm not debating that at all. But I'm sure that in those cases the parents are vigilant about making sure they get the right proteins, etc., and I just can't figure all that out right now.

 

It's not even that complicated.

 

As long as she's eating a variety of foods over time, it's all good. She does not have to combine within a meal or even within a day.

[meet me in paris]

Your doctor doesn't understand a vegetarian diet.

 

You want to make this easy? Make sure she has a grain and one of the following with each meal: dairy, eggs, and/or beans. There you go, she has her protein taken care of. Give her a multivitamin with iron every day. That will cover the rest, if you don't want a bunch of tips on natural sources.

 

ETA: Make sure she is getting good sources of healthful fats, something that you are probably already doing.

 

That's it. Really.

:iagree:

[OrganicAnn]

My DD is/wants to be a vegetarian. When it began I looked up how much protein is required for a girl her age. I found there was a simple ratio based on weight. It was surprised how little she needed to meet the protein standards. An egg for breakfast, a cheese sandwich for lunch, refried bean for dinner exceed the requirements.

 

At you daughters age, I would make her responsible for keeping track of how much protein she eats a day. And also keep things like peanut butter around to help her out. Also even among things like cheese, some have more protein (swiss cheese I think has the most).

 

Besides protein, you might try having a variety of vegetables and fruit. We've been trying to always have some simple to eat veggies - carrots, celery sticks all washed, cut up and ready to go. Also we have raw sunflower seeds and other nuts.

 

A vegetarian diet can be very healthy, but it is not always easy.

 

ETA: When our DD rarely decides that she wants to eat a piece of bacon, we don't make a big deal out of it. We occasionally asks if she wants whatever meat we are having for dinner, but just in a very casual way. We were eating over half of our meals were vegetarian anyway.

Edited March 11, 2010 by OrganicAnn

[Mommyof4ks]

Can she drink protein shakes? My youngest son was prescribed those when he began treatment for cancer, because he would not eat any protein.

 

If she simply does not want to eat meat, then it should be fairly easy to accommodate. If she wants to take it to no animal products at all (milk, cheese, yogurt) and so on then I would find a dietitian to help. Your dd's doc may even be able to get you a referral, and insurance will often cover it like any other appt.

[EthiopianFood]

It's not even that complicated.

 

As long as she's eating a variety of foods over time, it's all good. She does not have to combine within a meal or even within a day.

 

Quite true. I figured it was easier this way because she would KNOW everything is covered. She won't have to think, gee, when was the last time she ate XYZ? With her dd being sick, I would rather err on the side of caution. I mean, really, doesn't pretty much everyone eat carbs at every meal? Then add a glass of milk. There you go.

 

I bet you also don't care for scripted curriculum, do you Joanne? :D

[Joanne]

Quite true. I figured it was easier this way because she would KNOW everything is covered. She won't have to think, gee, when was the last time she ate XYZ? With her dd being sick, I would rather err on the side of caution. I mean, really, doesn't pretty much everyone eat carbs at every meal? Then add a glass of milk. There you go.

 

I understand. I thought maybe completely not worrying about it would be something to consider given the serious and ongoing issues you must be so tired of!

 

I bet you also don't care for scripted curriculum, do you Joanne?

 

:lol:;) Actually, that's true when they were younger.

 

I'm using Sonlight now. :)

[Peela]

It could be that with the Lymes...her body is crying out for a less heavy diet, for a vegetarian diet... many people have cured themselves from various diseases by going vegetarian. Meat takes a lot of energy to digest and adds quite a toxic load to the system.

I agree with the others. Just do some research with her about adequate protein, keep up the eggs and dairy (we are mostly vegetarian and my dd15 has eggs every morning with her strictly vego dad). Give her a multivitamin if you're concerned.

Her body will force her toeat meat if she starts lacking nutrients..mine does, as I dont absorb iron well, evne though we are mosly vego. I will just bout eat a steak raw every few months- but that is my system. Train her to listen to her own body.

[The Governess]

Her body will force her toeat meat if she starts lacking nutrients..mine does, as I dont absorb iron well, evne though we are mosly vego. I will just bout eat a steak raw every few months- but that is my system. Train her to listen to her own body.

 

I've just discovered that I have a hard time getting enough iron without red meat in my diet. The past 6 months we have been eating a lot more vegetarian dishes, and our red meat consumption dropped to about once or twice a month. Despite all the leafy greens and other good stuff I was eating, my ferretin and b-12 levels were very low. After a month of red meat 3-4 times a week I am feeling much better. Supplements don't seem to have the same effect on me, I wish they did because organic, grass-fed beef is awful pricey. :glare:

[Rosie_0801]

Rosie-it's not really so much the meat, I guess. It's that I see her just eating mainly carbs at this point-not well-balanced, very little protein.

 

 

Binging on carbs is naughty, but eating carbs at every meal is perfectly ok. Even desirable for most bodies. Try keeping hummus in the fridge and ask her to pre-cut veggie sticks for the following day while you are preparing dinner. People tend to snack on the carbs because they are convenient.

 

Rosie

[Heidi7Sue]

Eggs are our whole family's main source of protein, just because they're so much easier for me to fix than meat. You don't have to think ahead about taking them out of the freezer. If your plan changes between getting meat out of the freezer and the time you were going to cook it, you don't have a lot of leeway for making adjustments, but the eggs were in the refrigerator anyway. We eat them boiled, scrambled with cheese, as egg salad sandwiches. I'd make quiches if I weren't lactose intolerant. BTW, boiled eggs are really good with salsa - who knew?

 

None of us has any cholesterol issues; I have no idea what I'd do if we did. We'd probably all starve.

[Danestress]

If she's eating the way your family eats (it sounds like you are very healthy eaters) she is probably fine. There are so many protein sources that are not meat based. Your normal diet of a variety whole grains, lots of fresh fruits and vegetables, and some protein source like nuts, beans or dairy is probably giving her something pretty close to the idea American diet. It's not really difficult to have a very full and healthy vegetarian diet as long as your definition of "vegetarian" isn't really restrictive. If she won't eat eggs and dairy, I personally would find that very difficult (but probably healthful, just sort of a pain for me).

[Pamela H in Texas]

My friend has lyme and is going vegan in order to get better so other than y'all's exhaustion with the issue and having to figure out how to best do it, I'm not sure why eating meat would be good for Lyme.

 

I would have her study up on it. If she wants to do this, SHE needs to make sure she's doing it in a healthy manner.

 

I realize that it's easier for me as someone that leans that direction anyway. But....

 

Three things...

 

1) by carbs, you're meaning processed? grain-based? simple? That would be a concern. But if by carbs you are including veggies and fruits, don't worry about those.

 

2) Science lesson: Proteins are made up of amino acids. Our bodies need those amino acids so break proteins down into them for our bodily functions such as growing, healing, etc. Fruits, veggies, grains, nuts, and seeds have all those amino acids readily available for our bodies. So protein isn't really what is needed; don't get hung up on that. She just needs a wide variety of unprocessed, natural foods in order to get those same amino acids.

 

3) People who eat a clean diet are getting more nutrients for what they eat. Their bodies naturally need less food this way (where the majority of people crave foods because they aren't getting enough nutrients so their bodies are lacking so scream out for more food to get them). So, if she is eating pretty clean, she may eat smaller portions or less often. Of course, if calories/fat are an issue, you want to make sure she's getting healthy fats (nuts, avocados, etc)

Edited March 11, 2010 by 2J5M9K

[SeekingSimplicity]

There seems to be an assumption that an omnivore is checking all their nutritional boxes, but from what I've read (all over the place, nothing in particular) omnivores are usually deficient in iron, calcium and iodine. There is nothing in meat that your daughter won't get from the rest of your very healthy diet. From what you've said, you don't have to do anything you are not already doing. (Doctors generally know less about nutrition than the average interested mother, so don't count the doctor as an expert here.)

 

Rosie

 

:iagree:

 

American eat way too much protein anyhow. Remember there's protein in everything, so don't worry so much about it. Just make sure she's replacing meat with healthy foods (fruits and veggies) and not lots of breads or junk food and you're good to go.

And if she's eating lots of fresh fruits and veggies, she get the good enzymes from them that will help her heal.

[HappyGrace]

Thank you all so much for the support!!!!!!!!

 

She eats a completely unprocessed diet, so I guess you're right, any carbs would be good ones. (And she isn't binging at all, so that's good.)

 

I never thought of it that it could be BECAUSE of the Lyme that she is naturally wanting to eat this way (probably because it's for ethical reasons for her, but even at that, she doesn't seem to want meat otherwise.)

 

I think part of my issue is that *I* don't do well w/out meat, just like lovelearnandlive said. I don't feel well without it and my iron gets extremely low. So I may be projecting that onto her somewhat. Also the fact that I need lots of variety in my diet-I get sick of hummus, etc., and really only could eat beans about once a week, but that doesn't mean it's the same for her.

 

This has been a really eye-opening thread-I didn't realize the two things above! I'm just going to make sure I have lots of healthy things for her to choose from and not worry. I'm feeling much better about things now-thank you so much!

[asta]

My 13 year old does not eat meat and eats chicken maybe once a month (maybe 2 ounces at most). She is healthy as can be.

 

I don't eat meat either and have never had health issues because of it. You would be surprised at how you get vitamins/minerals and other healthy stuff from the foods you normally eat/drink.

 

You could also ask her doctor if there is a vitamin supplement she should be taking.

 

Chicken is meat.

 

 

a

[bbmom]

I'm glad you got such good advice and are feeling better about it because I opened this thread and thought "there is no way to make a kid eat anything-it's one of the few things they have total control over." Most of my advice was given already, but I wanted to suggest a couple of things that might make life easier for you. At the beginning of the week you could make a pot of hard boiled eggs-she could then eat them for breakfast, everyone could have egg salad for lunch, etc. Lentil soup is easy and could be kept in the refrigerator for her for when the family meal contains meat. Also, refried beans are easy to store and make a really quick bean and cheese burrito/quesadilla. Yogurt with granola, oatmeal with dried fruit and nuts, smoothies with yogurt, etc. are all quick and easy things she should be able to make for herself as well.

[spradlin02]

I just can't make that leap right now to ensure her health with totally veg. I'm too wiped out. I know there are ways obviously to get all you need as a vegetarian, but honestly, I just can't cope with figuring that out right now.

 

My suggestion, support her in the decision but state your concerns. Make sure she thinks about her motivations and ask her to be the lead; you're busy and you need her help to figure out her diet. Make it a learning experience and give her the control. Maybe she can start making meals for you all and give you a break.

 

Frankly, most vegetarians I know are way healthier than I am anyway.

[cillakat]

We've humored her and tried to support her and not said a word for the last few months, thinking it would fade away. But it's not going away! Dh and I strongly want her to eat meat because

1. She is chronically VERY ill with Lyme disease and her immune system is having a terrible time fighting it off

 

Have her doc test her 25(OH)D levels via LabCorp (there are too many problems with Quest's test). If LabCorp isn't an option, then use ZRT.

 

Vitamin D is critical, zinc is as well and secondarily, sufficient protein.

 

 

2. We are too wiped out to try to figure out how to make sure she is getting what she needs as a vegetarian.

 

I wouldn't worry too much about it as long as she'll eat eggs and dairy.

 

 

• Be sure she gets protein at each meal - egg, higher protein diary, beans.

• Don't let her rely heavily on processed soy/gluten meat 'substitutes'

• Give her a high quality, broad spectrum, high potency, inexpensive multi like Now Multi Gels. My 10yo takes one per day. They are large - like a fish oil capsule but very easy to swallow, no wierd taste or smell and have the very best forms of iron and zinc (most critical for her). Once she hits puberty, she can take two per day instead of one or could switch to something even less expensive, yet still as high quality like Natrol My Favorite Multiple Take One

 

Other than that, I wouldn't worry. Not everyone needs even that much protein, but it's pretty critical for her....the vitamin D is more critical and could absolutely turn this around if started soon enough. I like Nature's Answer Vitamin D drops. Per the most current research and convincing information at vitamindcouncil.org, most of us will need 1000 IU per 25 lbs body weight to maintain optimal vitamin D levels. To quickly get to optimal levels from deficient levels, it's very reasonable to take 3-4x that amount for 6 or so weeks.

 

Best,

Katherine

cillakat @ gmail . com