Courting, Dating, and Relationships

[cstitches]

Hey everyone, I have some questions about how you view your kids in relation to courting/dating/relationships.

 

I am really interested to hear from all of you about your ideals and expectations, and what you teach them; how you think they should approach getting involved in a relationship, handle being in one, when it is appropriate in their lives, how they should balance it with other parts of their lives, etc. I'm also interested in viewpoints on the relation between courting/dating and marriage; should one only happen with the later in mind, should one date many people before even considering it, age appropriateness, readiness, etc. Also, if your child became pregnant/got someone pregnant, what would be your expectations in handling the pregnancy and the prospect (or not) of marriage?

 

For those of you with kids of courting/dating age, how have your ideals and expectations matched or not matched how they've ended up conducting themselves? If they've gone against your wishes, how did they feel about their choice? Were they okay with it, or was it a "learning from mistakes, mom/dad you were right" kind of thing? I'm also interested to hear how any of you may have matched or not matched your own parents' ideals and expectations (and if you didn't match, if you saw it as being rebellious or having to turn on their unrealistic/unreasonable expectations).

 

I've seen threads about specific subjects within this topic before, and I tried searching for other threads on this topic, but didn't come up with much. Please feel free to refer me to other threads addressing any of the above points as well as responding. I'm hoping to hear a wide range of views all on one place. Thank you so much :001_smile:

[LBC]

:lurk5::bigear:

I really want to hear what others have to say, too. My oldest is a 16 year old girl. My "ideal" is probably the courtship model, but the older my kids get, the more I realize that I can't (and shouldn't) control every aspect of their lives. I'm looking forward to reading this thread.

 

Lori

[delaney]

Here are my rules. I keep them simple b/c I am not going to preach what I didn't live.

No relationships before HS.

Keep in mind that HS relationships flop and flop often.

No sex ....well....can't say not to do it...but I do put the age restriction of at least 18 on it and only with using proper precautions. I could try to say not to but if they throw me the question I will have to answer honestly and tell them. I would love to think that all of my kids would wait until at least college but honestly I am not against premarital sex. No flames please!

ETA: I am not what you would call religious although I have a religious foundation in my upbringing. I really do hope some of the more enlightened ladies on the board will wear off on me!

[happyhomemaker25]

My oldest will be 13 soon so I know not what I speak of, but a plan is always good (however subject to change).

Our one rule that I think will stay steadfast is, no dating until they graduate from highschool.

We like the idea of courtship. But not in a controlling way. More in a... protective way?

I hate the idea of my kids wasting time and tears on relationships that have no merit. We work now on building a relationship with our kids that hopefully will earn us some merit as they get older. We talk often about relationships and the dangers of dating as a way of entertainment. We don't condemn it, just kind of talk it through.

We talk about God's perfect will for their lives in all areas.

I am a mom who would totally support a young marriage. I hope to have my daughters prepared to be wives and mothers when they graduate from highschool. My sons to be leaders, protectors, and providers when they graduate.

I pray, pray, pray for their future spouses and relationships. I pray for protection for their young hearts and minds.

My dream is to be able to talk to my children about the relationships they are in, offering an older and wiser opinion, but not a judgement statement.

I know that this might not be what happens, but it is what we are working towards.

[Ginevra]

I say no real boyfriend/girlfriend relationships until around 15 or older. I would rather they "date" with the idea that they are looking for a potential mate, not just "recreational" dating. I would also rather see them build a relationship around a friendship, instead of flitting around with different people they think are "cute".

 

I am not a believer in the courtship model. I'm not a believer in the "no kissing and so forth" until your wedding day. These models most often lead to very young marriage (at best) or unwed pregnancy (because they were in denial that they were doing it and didn't use bc). I would rather my child get to, say, 25, and have had one or two previous relationships that didn't work out, but marry with a good head on their shoulders than for them to have "remained pure" but married the first person they fell for the day they turned 18.

[Rosy]

My non-negotiables are wait until marriage for sex and marry someone who shares our faith.

 

My hope is that my kids will not become emotionally entangled with someone, that they will guard their heart and only make an intimate (emotional) connection with the person they will marry. To that end, we will not support their dating as young teenagers, will encourage family involvement with anyone they become interested in, will encourage dating in groups vs. being alone together, etc. Of course, this is all for while they're still at home/under our authority. We also hope to become involved with the youth group at church and get to know their friends, for the purpose of being able to encourage godly conduct and offer wise counsel.

 

Once their out on their own, I think the rules change somewhat. At that point, my hope is that they have a godly mentoring couple that can guide them through the relationship process if they're out of the area and that they'll keep us in the loop.

 

I believe in many of the principles of the "courtship model", but I think each situation calls for a certain amount of flexibility. And ultimately, it is the child's decision. So I can encourage them with what I believe, and can enforce certain rules when they're at home, but it really isn't up to me--especially after they move out.

 

If our daughters became pregnant out of wedlock or my son impregnated someone, my counsel would be to 1) get married, or 2) relinquish the baby to be adopted by a Christian family.

[Liz CA]

Hey everyone, I have some questions about how you view your kids in relation to courting/dating/relationships.

 

I am really interested to hear from all of you about your ideals and expectations, and what you teach them; how you think they should approach getting involved in a relationship, handle being in one, when it is appropriate in their lives, how they should balance it with other parts of their lives, etc. I'm also interested in viewpoints on the relation between courting/dating and marriage; should one only happen with the later in mind, should one date many people before even considering it, age appropriateness, readiness, etc. Also, if your child became pregnant/got someone pregnant, what would be your expectations in handling the pregnancy and the prospect (or not) of marriage?

 

For those of you with kids of courting/dating age, how have your ideals and expectations matched or not matched how they've ended up conducting themselves? If they've gone against your wishes, how did they feel about their choice? Were they okay with it, or was it a "learning from mistakes, mom/dad you were right" kind of thing? I'm also interested to hear how any of you may have matched or not matched your own parents' ideals and expectations (and if you didn't match, if you saw it as being rebellious or having to turn on their unrealistic/unreasonable expectations).

 

I've seen threads about specific subjects within this topic before, and I tried searching for other threads on this topic, but didn't come up with much. Please feel free to refer me to other threads addressing any of the above points as well as responding. I'm hoping to hear a wide range of views all on one place. Thank you so much :001_smile:

 

As the mother of a 18 yo ds, I have always said group dating is good because it removes a lot of the temptation that is there when 2 people are alone. Also, there is no sense in getting very serious with someone before you can think of marrying and supporting a wife and possibly a family. ( I told him kids are expensive. :lol:) The same message came from the youth pastor so my dh and I did not walk this path alone which was tremendously helpful.

I would encourage dating a lot of people - mind you I wrote "dating" and that does not include having s*x. Dating, IMHO is getting to know other people and seeing character traits and discovering who you are as a person as well in the context of a man/woman relationship.

So far -as we know - he has adhered to it. Now he is legally an adult and of course I cannot tell him anymore - or I can tell him but he does not have to obey.

 

To your other question: If he gets a girl pregnant I would fully expect that he supports her and the child - marriage or no marriage. And we as the grandparents would also expect to assist and help any way we can.

 

Edited February 13, 2010 by Liz CA

[Sahamamama]

My daughters are all so young at this point, but I do think about this question, for a reason that may surprise you. I am an "old mother." I am 43 and my daughters are 5 and 3 (twins). I see this from another perspective -- that of coming to marriage and motherhood after years and years and years of waiting.

 

When I was growing up in the 70s and 80s, I think there was a push (at least in the public schools) towards feminism and careerism for girls. I don't mean that I am dead-set against these things, but just that, in looking back, I have come to realize how much my own goals and dreams and values did NOT line up with what my teachers were telling me I ought to value. I clearly remember the time when, in 5th grade, I had a radically feminist teacher. She gave us all the assignment to write an essay about what we wanted to "be" when we grew up. I wrote about being a wife, mother, and homemaker. She was LIVID, and failed the essay, and lectured me in front of everyone about how being a mother is NOT a valid life-goal! I remember the frustration as I tried to explain that I had understood the assignment to simply be to "write about what you want to be" -- not career-wise, but just as a human being. After I told my mother about that confrontation, she went in for a Parent-Teacher conference, and then SHE came out livid, LOL. She told me to do the work and to get through the year, but that she thought the teacher was a "fruit loop." :D

 

My grandmother was a homemaker. My mother worked part-time and kept the home. My mother had been a teacher, she had her bachelor's and master's degrees, but was happy being home. All the women around me seemed happy. They lived life by this formula:

 

 

Marriage + Children + Homemaking + An Employed Husband + Part-Time Paid Work = Contentment

 

 

 

I thought that would be my life, too. Of course I went to college, that was expected. But I was different from so many young women at my school, in that I actually studied, LOL! I went to a Christian college, so for the first time in my life, it was possible to integrate learning with faith. I loved being a student, but after college I was still unmarried. No big deal, right? I got into my career -- social work, not exactly the field for finding somebody to marry! Would I marry a client? :tongue_smilie:

 

After a few years of that grind, I was weary and alone. What to do? I thought I might find someone at grad school, so I went back to school at age 28. The men there were either (a) married, or (b) unmarried and you knew why. I worked my way through, so by the time I finished I was 32 -- still unmarried, getting lonelier by the day.

 

I worked. I worked out. I prayed. I waited. I "dated" at times. I cried a lot. It was a very hard time in my life. I hope my daughters never know anything like it. I'm not saying it didn't put some fiber into me, but who needs despair, anyway?

 

In the fullness of time, when I was 36 and a half years old, I met my husband. There was never any issue of dating vs. courtship with us, LOL. We met online (eHarmony) in August, met in person in October, he moved to New Jersey (from California, for ME!) in December (!), proposed in February, and we were married the first day of May. Whoooosh! :D

 

Nine and a half months later, we were parents. Less than two years later, we had twins. Whooooooooooooooosh! :D

 

Life changed for me mightly quickly, but I have the perspective of a woman who feels as though maybe we put off adulthood for our "children" a bit too long.... that we hold "teens" back from becoming "adults" by having a whole separate agenda for those years, besides plain vanilla maturity. Perhaps just GROWING UP is what it's about in those years, but we make it out like it's a time to party, date, have fun, be with peers, etc., etc., etc. I don't know..... would I have been "ready" for marriage earlier, if that had been the focus instead of school/career/ministry? Is anybody really ready? Or does entering into adulthood mature us?

 

One part of the mother in me thinks that we need to focus our sons and daughters on maturity, early on. The other part of me feels that I don't want them to feel as though they are being "pushed out the door," or that there is a deadline for marriage. There isn't one, that is really in God's hands, I think. BUT, the choices we make CAN impact the timing and our life's trajectory. No answers here, really, just more questions! HTH! :001_smile:

[Joanne]

My non-negotiables are wait until marriage for sex and marry someone who shares our faith.

 

My hope is that my kids will not become emotionally entangled with someone, that they will guard their heart and only make an intimate (emotional) connection with the person they will marry. .

 

I'm wondering how you can make that "non negotiable"? I do not mean to be disrespectful, but how can you decide for someone else, of near adult age, that they *can't* have sex?

 

Gosh, I really don't want to start my answer already with a debate. :001_huh: But I don't believe that one or two emotional ties before marriage = bad and I don't believe "guarding" hearts.

 

Instead, I believe in discussion, guidance, love, understanding, affirmation of the natural desire to emotionally and physically connect, with healthy and realistic information about responsibility to other's hearts, lives, bodies.

 

I believe it's best to wait for maturity and marriage before sex, but I do not believe it's best to wait for all affection. I don't believe in the courtship model - I am especially concerned about the cultish aspect of some of the followers. I find it *extra*Biblical.

 

I couldn't imagine telling my child to marry in their faith any more than I could imagine telling them to marry someone white.

 

My son is nearly 15, in 9th grade and has had a few "interests". Phone calls, emails, but no dating and severely limited time together and opportunity for interaction. More recently, he and my bonus student have decided they like each other. They've known each other 3 years and have been dating, under supervision, for about 3 months. They are home now (I am at work), watching the opening ceremony together because we are doing a unit study on the Olympics and they need to write a paper. They are accompanied by my two other children and step dad. In between taking notes, I anticipate some hand holding. :D

 

I can not imagine them dating "solo" for a while, but they have been to the movies with adults also there, and they were allowed to sit separate.

[Rosy]

I'm wondering how you can make that "non negotiable"? I do not mean to be disrespectful, but how can you decide for someone else, of near adult age, that they *can't* have sex?

 

 

I guess what I meant by "non-negotiables" means the things I'm teaching to my kids as absolutely right or wrong. In the same way that not using drugs is a non-negotiable. Of course I can't force them to do/not do these things, but that in most everything else with regards to the dating issue, there are shades of grey.

 

The connection made with a sex partner is one that I believe (and feel the Bible supports) that should only happen within marriage. I feel that there are consequences to having sex outside of marriage, and feel that it is part of my duty as a parent to do everything reasonable to protect my kids from that.

 

As for marrying within the faith...everyone has essential characteristics for their prospective spouse. Similar belief systems is one of mine and it is one I will teach to my kids. Again, there are permanent negative consequences to marrying someone with whom there is not a common faith, and I feel that it is my duty as a parent to do everything reasonable to protect my kids from those consequences.

 

For me, affection is not a black-and-white issue--I have friends who have waited until marriage to kiss, and it was great for them. That is something I can't decide for my kids. I can teach them about the wisdom of limiting affection, but they have to decide what their limits are.

 

Same with courtship. If my kids decide they want that, I hope to be able to support them according to their wishes. If not, that's fine too--I'm more concerned with their understanding of principles that lead to a healthy relationship than the specifics of how they conduct their relationship.

Edited February 13, 2010 by Rosy

[LibraryLover]

apropos of not much in this thread...but one of the little guys in our hsing group told his mother, "When I grow up I am going to marry a Christian girl so we can have Christmas and Hanukkah". His mother (my good friend) was like 'no, you will not". lol It was really funny. The dad is a rabbi and well, it was just funny. The mother really wants her kids to marry within the faith and I told her that she needs to find a hsing group with more Jewish kids, esp girls, since he's already decided he wants to marry a girl. lol

 

Anyway. I prefer my kids wait until they are 30 to date or have sex or get married...but yk.... the 16 currently has a gf, the 17 does not have a bf, and the 21 yr old had a gf and now does not.

Edited February 13, 2010 by LibraryLover

[Ottakee]

Here are my "ideas" but as I have 3 children with special needs---2 of which are mentally impaired and likely will never live on their own, it is a bit different.

 

For "typical" kids I would say:

 

Group activities during highschool

if they wanted to do more 1:1 then it would be more of a courtship model but not that strict--but still guarding their hearts and avoiding situations where they are alone too much

 

I would also have a talk about setting standards/boundries BEFORE you get serious with someone---decide when kissing is OK, how much, etc. How much physical touch is Ok, when in the relationship, etc. Where the lines are, etc. My ideal would be that they would do nothing with someone of the oppostite sex outside of marriage that they would regret if that person came to their wedding as they were marrying someone else some day.

 

Once they get to college, more 1:1 time is OK.

 

I would ask them "would you want to marry someone that you knew was intimate with 1, 2, 8, 10 or more people before you got married?" Think that the person you are dating/interested in now might not be your spouse and you want to keep them pure and yourself pure for your future spouse.

[Joanne]

I guess what I meant by "non-negotiables" means the things I'm teaching to my kids as absolutely right or wrong. In the same way that not using drugs is a non-negotiable. Of course I can't force them to do/not do these things, but that in most everything else with regards to the dating issue, there are shades of grey.

 

Ok. That makes sense, and I understand the comparison.

 

The connection made with a sex partner is one that I believe (and feel the Bible supports) that should only happen within marriage. I feel that there are consequences to having sex outside of marriage, and feel that it is part of my duty as a parent to do everything reasonable to protect my kids from that.

 

I agree about sex, but not amount affection and sharing emotional ties. I can't envision how a person can ascertain if someone is their life partner without time, emotion, affection and intimacy (and by that, I don't mean sex!!)

 

I also don't believe in early marriage for most situations in western cultures and believe strongly in adults having lived "independently" for a while with training, a vocation or higher education before marriage. Given that preference, I could not imagine my adult child not having had a relationship before marriage.

 

 

As for marrying within the faith...everyone has essential characteristics for their prospective spouse. Similar belief systems is one of mine and it is one I will teach to my kids. Again, there are permanent negative consequences to marrying someone with whom there is not a common faith, and I feel that it is my duty as a parent to do everything reasonable to protect my kids from those consequences.

 

 

I understand what you are saying. I can't agree with it as a non-negotiable for my family.

 

For me, affection is not a black-and-white issue--I have friends who have waited until marriage to kiss, and it was great for them. That is something I can't decide for my kids. I can teach them about the wisdom of limiting affection, but they have to decide what their limits are.

 

I completely agree with the idea of limiting affection for teens as a suggestion. :001_smile:

 

With courtship. If my kids decide they want that, I hope to be able to support them according to their wishes. If not, that's fine too--I'm more concerned with their understanding of principles that lead to a healthy relationship than the specifics of how they conduct their relationship.

 

I agree and indeed believe the only courtship choice I could get behind would be if it were totally chosen by the child.

[BearWallowSchool]

My non-negotiables are wait until marriage for sex and marry someone who shares our faith.

 

:iagree: I didn't wait until I was married and it still haunts me. I don't want my children to make the same mistake.

[Pamela H in Texas]

We encourage courtship but realize people will make their own choices in adulthood. Also, I think our version of it is much looser than other people's (Duggars we are not!) though I do consider it the prelude to marriage, not a sport in and of itself. In addition to that, how much emotional and physical affection will be part of the relationship is at least partially a personal choice. One person may choose to keep certain physical holds, kisses, etc for after marriage while another may not think twice about them. This is really the case regardless in life. It goes against my conscience to watch a show another Christian may think is perfectly fine.

 

Standards of behavior must be upheld to continue living in our home though also. A 24yo who lives under this roof is choosing not to intentionally sin. We all have shortcomings, but to go out and have sex is a CHOICE just as much as going out worship an idol is. You accidentally have a rude thought (unintentional sin) towards another person; you don't accidentally have sex! If you are going to choose idol worship or fornication, you will also be choosing to find a new living arrangement.

 

Of course, there is ongoing discussion about relationships, dating, marriage, sex, etc from childhood. They are couched as possible parts of adulthood ("past the bloom of youth"). For all of my teen's lives, the one has said she will not choose those parts of adulthood. The other one seems to be interested for later. He thinks he may be interested sooner than I would like him to be. He'll be an adult. He'll have to decide for himself.

[smrtmama]

I'll my children to seek out relationship with people who treat them with respect and with whom they share a physical and mental attraction. I'll make sure they know how to spot warning signs of abusive or controlling individuals and that they know I'll always be here if they need help. I'll put limitations on their dating when they're younger, a gradual expanding of freedoms and relaxing of boundaries as they get older, and we'll continue to have safe (physically) and responsible (physically and emotionally) sex talks.

 

I don't expect my children to only ever have emotional or physical intimacy with one person in their lives (though goodness, I do hope they'll keep it to one person at a TIME). If that's what they end up choosing, that's fine, but it's not what I would expect nor recommend.

 

RE: Courting. That's not something in which I'm willing to be involved.

[MorganClassicalPrep]

Important to note::: Being that my daughter IS only 4, all this is subject to change! :D

 

While my daughter is younger, under 14 or so, I'll allow group dating. I believe that completely forbidding something only creates problems later, much the same as completely denying a child sweets leads to overindulging later in life. As she grows up and begins to prove her maturity and responsibility, I'll allow her solo dates.

 

As for her choice of mates.... well, that is her decision. Obviously anyone who is downright bad, drugs, alcohol, arrest record, will not be allowed around my daughter, but I can't pick who my daughter spends her life with. I'd rather develop a relationship with her so that she feels she can trust me and talk to me and come to me for advice. I *hope* that she chooses a man who is of the same faith and race as we are... but only because it will make her life easier. Society doesn't like people who go against the grain. As long as she is happy, loved, respected, and taken care of, Mommy is happy, even if that is with someone of a different faith, race, or even another female.

 

I guess I feel like, at 18 I lose all power over the situation anyways. I'd rather spend her teenage years building a strong relationship with my daughter than fighting a power struggle over dating.

[IsabelC]

This:

 

I'll [allow/support/encourage] my children to seek out relationship with people who treat them with respect and with whom they share a physical and mental attraction. I'll make sure they know how to spot warning signs of abusive or controlling individuals and that they know I'll always be here if they need help. I'll put limitations on their dating when they're younger, a gradual expanding of freedoms and relaxing of boundaries as they get older, and we'll continue to have safe (physically) and responsible (physically and emotionally) sex talks.

Edited February 13, 2010 by Hotdrink

[Hedgehogs4]

I'm wondering how you can make that "non negotiable"? I do not mean to be disrespectful, but how can you decide for someone else, of near adult age, that they *can't* have sex?

 

 

 

If you are not a Christian who believes all that the Bible says, then you can't decide for someone else. If you are, you still can't. But you sure can teach your children that all signs, especially God's word, point to the fact that it is best for the family and for the individual to remain pure and not have sex with anyone that you are not married to.

 

Purity is a word that few people like to consider anymore. Kinda like sin. People don't like those words.

[Joanne]

If you are not a Christian who believes all that the Bible says, then you can't decide for someone else. If you are, you still can't. But you sure can teach your children that all signs, especially God's word, point to the fact that it is best for the family and for the individual to remain pure and not have sex with anyone that you are not married to.

 

Purity is a word that few people like to consider anymore. Kinda like sin. People don't like those words.

 

*shrug* That's not what I was questioning. I wasn't questioning "sin" or "purity" or sex before marriage. And I worked through the answers with the poster.

 

I always cringe when I read words referring to "If you are not a Christian who believes all that the Bible says, "

[IsabelC]

I think that you can respect your children and their right to choose, but still offer your experience, wisdom and suggestions to them. If it is your belief that it is preferable not to have sex, then go ahead and explain this. But you still have to be prepared to accept that they may not decide to follow your advice.

[Bev in B'ville]

Her first "real" boyfriend was 18 (I expected this as there aren't many 16 yo men in college).

 

Of course, we talked to dd about everything, but for kids I think actions speak louder than words. My dh took dd out one evening and not only did they talk about dating, but he showed her by example how a gentleman behaves (e.g. opening doors for a lady, seating her at the restaurant, etc.). He told her any man who doesn't treat her like a lady doesn't get a second date.

 

I also told her to observe how the young man's father treats his mother. Behavior is learned through example and the father's behavior towards women is a big clue how she could expect to be treated in a longer relationship with the young man.

 

Here's something I printed out for dd as a joke. She in turn, also jokingly, gave it to her boyfriend. Daddy's Rules for Dating (both the rules and the "application").

[Erica in PA]

I would rather my child get to, say, 25, and have had one or two previous relationships that didn't work out, but marry with a good head on their shoulders than for them to have "remained pure" but married the first person they fell for the day they turned 18.

 

This is a good point, and one that concerns me a bit as well. I don't want my kid to rush into marriage right away just because waiting for sex until marriage is so hard. I don't think it's generally great for kids to rush out and get married at 18, and it troubles me that so many of a courtship model do so. On the other hand, since I do believe that sex outside of marriage is wrong morally, that is a principle that can't be bent to avoid the possible consequences. And I have known many people who have waited for sex until marriage, and didn't marry until they were much older, so it can be done, and that is what we will encourage our kids to strive for. I also am not sure that being older and having emotional baggage from past sexual relationships upon getting married is much better for the success of a marriage than marrying young. So... our approach is that dating is designed to lead to marriage, that sex is meant to be within marriage only, and that it's best to delay marriage and sex until you are mature enough to make those kinds of decisions. We will definitely tell our kids that it would be foolish to rush into marrying someone just for physical reasons at a young age.

[Erica in PA]

 

 

 

I couldn't imagine telling my child to marry in their faith any more than I could imagine telling them to marry someone white.

 

 

That is a very odd comparison, imo. The Bible says this about relationships between believers and nonbelievers (not specifically about dating, but certainly the principle applies, and to what would it apply more than marriage, the most important relationship in a person's life?): Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? Corinthians 6:14ff

 

I'm not sure how Christian parents, in light of this, could teach their children that the choice to choose a nonbeliever is perfectly acceptable, just as acceptable as marrying a person of a different race.

 

Apart from this, there are many negative practical problems that come from a Christian marrying a non-Christian. Not sharing in your heart, with your spouse, the very most important thing in your life is one. Not coming at life with the same values can be a problem, as you seek to make decisions together-- one is seeking to honor and obey God, while that not on the radar for the other. The issues that arise with attending church, reading the Bible, praying, are often difficult. I have seen too many women sitting alone in the pew, week after week, weeping for the salvation of their husband (and children, who statistically are less likely to follow God in a mixed faith marriage), to ever say that this is an acceptable path for my children to knowingly choose.

[Guest Virginia Dawn]

What I would prefer and what I live with are two separate things.

 

I would prefer that my kids avoid close relationships with the opposite sex until after they are graduated from high school. But that turned out to be totally unrealistic. We did insist on it with my dd because I could see her heading to trouble from an early age. Sure enough, inspite of all the talking about life choices, religious ethics, and heart consequences, she got pregnant a year after she left home. The guy abandoned her and the child before it was born and we don't know where he is. I don't know if it would have been any different if we had let her date younger. Sometimes I wonder if I had done things differently, maybe she wouldn't have had to go through that pain. Thankfully, she actually learned some life lessons and ended up marrying a very kind and responsible young man.

 

I had not changed any of the rules for my oldest son, when I found out he had a girlfriend that he kept secret from us at the age of 14. We knew her and she is a sweet girl, but he did not trust us. That hurt. Basically they only saw each other in public anyway. She broke up with him because he wanted to keep their relationship secret and she didn't. Then 2 years later, I found out he had asked another girl to be his girlfriend. We had a very long talk after that about honesty and relationships and wise choices. After 2 weeks the girl dumped him for someone else, probably because he wasn't a social animal, lol. He learned his lessons and we've had no secrecy since. He has had a wonderful girlfriend for 2 years now, and they are both committed to waiting for marriage.

 

My 16yo learned a lot from watching his brother and sister and so did I. I did not tell him he had to wait till after high school to have a girl friend, and he has been honest with us from the beginning. He has a wonderful girlfriend from our church who has convictions similar to his. Since he is not driving, they only see each other at public functions.

 

So, I say that to say the whole thing has been a learning experience for me. I now think 16 is an acceptable age for a relationship, but not unaccompanied dating. I also think that it needs to be understood that any relationship does not override current family dynamics, but accomodations will be made within reason. Computer time, phone time, and curfew rules do not change just because there is a new relationship. Respect for the other members of the family must remain consistant. Believe me these issues need to be addressed early and tend to be of greater concern than wether they will have sex.

 

When I talk to my kids about dating now, the things I stress are: respect and kindness toward the other person, choosing someone who shows respect and kindness toward them, and considering the expectations of the other party and the wisdom of making promises they may not be able to keep.

 

Then I pray.

[Ginevra]

I wrote about being a wife, mother, and homemaker. She was LIVID, and failed the essay, and lectured me in front of everyone about how being a mother is NOT a valid life-goal!

:grouphug: That's very sad.

[jujsky]

Disclaimers: My kids are young so I haven't had to deal with this yet, and I'm not religious.

 

Personally, I am against putting an arbitrary age on dating for a couple of reasons. First of all, kids mature differently. There may be a child who is mature and responsible enough to handle it at 15 or 16, while another child may not be able to handle it until 17 or 18. Also, by putting an arbitrary age on it, it builds up the expectation. If the rule is 16, I feel my kids would be more likely to actively try to find someone to date as they approached 16 just because they could. I'd rather have no set rules and wait until they find someone they want to date and ask me about it. Maybe they'll be older than the arbitrary age I would have set.

 

I will not teach courtship, but if that is an idea my kids adopt, I will support it. I doubt it will be because no one in the circles we run with (being agnostic and all) follow this practice. If we were a religious family I could see how my children would be exposed to this. Since we are not, I have doubts they will be exposed to any real-life people who do this, and I doubt that someone who is courtship-minded would even want to court my kids because they would have such different beliefs and ideals.

[Ginevra]

I can't envision how a person can ascertain if someone is their life partner without time, emotion, affection and intimacy (and by that, I don't mean sex!!)

 

I also don't believe in early marriage for most situations in western cultures and believe strongly in adults having lived "independently" for a while with training, a vocation or higher education before marriage. Given that preference, I could not imagine my adult child not having had a relationship before marriage.

 

I agree with what you wrote here exactly, Joanne.

 

(PLEASE NOTE: I am NOT anti-Duggar, so let that inform what I'm about to write, here...)

 

One thing I noticed when TLC did shows on Josh and Anna was how little they actually knew about each other. Obviously, they knew they came from the same POV regarding faith, homeschooling and conservative values, but they remarked about each other's sleeping or eating habits. I thought it was weird. :tongue_smilie: I'm more in favor of marrying someone you know like you know your own head. Not just the Major Issues, but all the little aspects that make up a personality. That is one reason I'm not a big fan of the strict form of courtship and having never been alone together.

[Chris in VA]

I really don't want to respond to this question(s) b/c the reality I live with and my ideal are so far apart.

 

I did want to say one thing, tho--

 

Don't think group dating is some sort of panacea--some sort of "make-out" or even sex preventative. A group of kids who are unsupervised can get into just as much trouble as a couple. There are lots and LOTS of kids around here that group date b/c their parents think it's somehow safer. It's not. I know from my son's experiences and those he's told me about.

[freetobeme]

I really don't want to respond to this question(s) b/c the reality I live with and my ideal are so far apart.

 

I did want to say one thing, tho--

 

Don't think group dating is some sort of panacea--some sort of "make-out" or even sex preventative. A group of kids who are unsupervised can get into just as much trouble as a couple. There are lots and LOTS of kids around here that group date b/c their parents think it's somehow safer. It's not. I know from my son's experiences and those he's told me about.

 

thanks for this, chris. mine are not dating YET but i have often wondered about this very thing.

 

on the general topic of dating, i read a book once (cc) called sex180. it was about relationships and that, whether you date or court or are just friends, the goal of the relationship is that each of you is a better person because of the relationship with the other person - even if there is ultimately a break up. or something like that. i'm digging around trying to find where i put it so i can read it again.

 

maybe that will help someone. . .

[Ginevra]

This is a good point, and one that concerns me a bit as well. I don't want my kid to rush into marriage right away just because waiting for sex until marriage is so hard. I don't think it's generally great for kids to rush out and get married at 18, and it troubles me that so many of a courtship model do so. On the other hand, since I do believe that sex outside of marriage is wrong morally, that is a principle that can't be bent to avoid the possible consequences. And I have known many people who have waited for sex until marriage, and didn't marry until they were much older, so it can be done, and that is what we will encourage our kids to strive for. I also am not sure that being older and having emotional baggage from past sexual relationships upon getting married is much better for the success of a marriage than marrying young. So... our approach is that dating is designed to lead to marriage, that sex is meant to be within marriage only, and that it's best to delay marriage and sex until you are mature enough to make those kinds of decisions. We will definitely tell our kids that it would be foolish to rush into marrying someone just for physical reasons at a young age.

 

Well, this may be a deficiency of the people I have known, but I honestly only know one person IRL who waiting until marriage who did not also marry very young. And, TBH, she is a little weird. :tongue_smilie:

 

Physiologically, human beings are not meant to grow up to 25+ years old having never formed a physical and emotional contact with a "mate" (In my view, that means opposite sex, but I didn't want to open that debate here.) Culturally, it makes sense to be 25+ before you make a life-long commitment to a mate. With those two things being pretty much at odds, we can only consider which we'd prefer: would we prefer our children to marry young, having waited for those attachments, or would we prefer them to marry older, having not waited, but having the wisdom of experience? Obviously, it may be that no matter what we prefer, they will do what they will do. ;)

 

Also, I don't think the concept of "emotional baggage from other relationships" holds much water. I had a serious relationship before I met my husband and my husband had two that he may have married if events had unfolded differently. My previous relationship informs zero of my marriage. As far as I know, his previous relationships inform zero of our marriage.

 

In a perfect scenario, in my fantasy for example, my dd12 would remain close friends with the boy she likes now, who also likes her, they would continue to be close friends until she's 15 or 16, then they would become bf/gf, would either have a physical relationship or not, whatever they choose, and when they are all grown up and have established adult lives, they will get married and live happily ever after. :D That is my happy fantasy that would be wonderful if it went that way. But I am realistic enough to be aware that that's not the most probable thing.

 

As far as unintended pg goes, I would rather my grown kids "do it" with their eyes wide open, which means they would us b/c, rather than try to tell themselves they're not really "doing it", that they don't mean to, but it keeps happening, which inevitably does lead to unintended pg. That is one scenario that I have witnessed IRL repeatedly.

[freetobeme]

oh, yeah, i wanted to say regarding courtship: i know of a REALLY nice young man who has thus far broken TWO hearts using the courtship model. so, that happens, too.

[Ginevra]

Don't think group dating is some sort of panacea--some sort of "make-out" or even sex preventative. A group of kids who are unsupervised can get into just as much trouble as a couple.

 

And THAT is VERY true; something I keep in mind. Dh and I both have memories of situations that were like this. The couple who wanted to "get alone" still managed to do that.

 

For me, the only "group dating" scenario that would get my vote would be totally public and chaperoned. I have also instructed my dd in group situations that she is not allowed to separate from the group with ANYbody. She went to a dance at another homeschooler's home, for example, and this was part of the instructions I gave to her.

[Karenciavo]

My children can not date until they are old enough to get married (18+). We encourage them to view dating as a step toward marriage not entertainment. Once they are old enough they'll decide what this looks like (strict courtship or not, but hopefully not ever casual dating.)

 

My oldest does attend chaperoned group functions such as swing dances that normally featuring dating, but most of the students are like him, attending without a date. My teenage sons agree with not dating and look forward to forming meaningful, deep relationships with a woman when the time is right. This is definitely a lifestyle that must be "owned" by the child. I would love for them to go to a college that supports this pov (ds16 has his eye on Patrick Henry which does), but we all have to take a stand for what we believe in at some point. Actually they take a stand to some degree at this point because they are one of the few teenagers at our church that don't date.

[cstitches]

Thank you so much everyone for sharing! It's very interesting to hear the different perspectives.

 

Anyone else? :bigear:

[mom4him]

I have three grown children and the two that I hs. When my older ds were younger I can't say as I ever set down any 'rules'. I talked to them a lot about not even make close friends with someone that didn't have the traits that you would like to have in a husband.

Non of them dated in high school but that wasn't because I told them they couldn't, it was because they really were waiting for that right person.

Our middle son got married almost 10 yrs ago. When they married they hadn't even shared a kiss until their wedding. They didn't have a long courtship/engagement, about 3/2 months but had worked together in children's ministry for some time before that.

Our oldest son was injured in a car accident 18 1/2 yrs ago and has never married.

Our oldest daughter just married this last Nov. I feel she had some things out of line but they did get married and are very happy.

I want to do pretty much the same with our younger. I will talk a bit more about courtship/dating and what the real purpose of it should be but for me I don't see us laying down any "laws". Keeping them in fellowship with like minded families is a big thing I believe.

[happyhomemaker25]

Keeping them in fellowship with like minded families is a big thing I believe.

 

:iagree:This is definatly the way I would love to go. DH is just now coming around to the fact that as our children grow into "youth group" age we really need to be looking for a more family integrated church setting.

[Holly IN]

Our feelings:

 

We do NOT like Dating or Courting. Both have pros and CONS. I have seen both sides to this thing. Courting I am sort of ok (not the Duggar style though) but I have seen couple of situations when there were courting couples....the boy was very monopolizing of the girl's time and told her they were getting married because they are courting. The situation got really hairy enough the father of the girl intervened and said marriage is NOT on the table. The dating side....I have seen situations where a girl dumped a boy after 3 weeks and gets a new boy for 3 weeks (this girl had sex with each boy). Dangerous in my opinion....Both situations concern me.

 

Our rules:

 

We call this "Chaperone dating". We get to know the girl's parents and the girl. We expect the same for the boy. Group dating is ok with us but they have to really stick with the group. Going out with hubby and I to the movies or dinner. Stay at our house with us or their house with their parents. So it is more like the whole family gets to know the other person and their family. Brother or sister can go out with them without us so they are not alone. (We know what goes on when alone....been there done that) Marriage is NOT on the table however it is something to strive towards. We do expect both parties to make a committement to have a serious relationship however if it doesn't work out that is ok. It can't be "oh wait for the better person to come along" We do not expect our son to ask the girl's father for permission like the Patriarcial teachings teach. We do expect our son to make sure the parent's are ok for their daughter and our son to officially date but with guidelines and chaperone. We do hope that our son will seak our guidance about marriage. We already told our oldest that we want to give him guidance and input about his future wife. He is ok with this and encourages us to do so. However the decision is ultimatley his. He told us he wants our blessing when the time comes. We told him we will if we feel the girl is right for him. We told him we will warn him if the girl will cause trouble for him in the future. This is where getting to know her and her family will come in handy. We expect the same for the girl and her family to get to know our son as well as us.

 

So far so good....There is a girl that my son is interested in and vice versa. We do have some concerns though (not the girl but her parent's situation). We love her mom but her dad is a whole other ball game. So it is getting a bit difficult. The girl is very nice and sees my son as her best friend. They are very close friends but really like each other. Right now they told each other that they are not doing the boyfriend/girlfriend thing right now. Just maintaining friendship and getting to know each other and us as well as her parents. Neither is allowed to date yet but they want to date when the time comes. I have never seen such a patient kids. Both of them have one more year of waiting before actually be considered dating.

 

Hope this helps you some!!

 

Holly

 

btw: I got married when I was 19. I am still married to the same guy at 19, 20 years later! :) So I am not a firm believer in waiting till 25+. The younger the better in my opinion (after 18 of course) in order to get children out of the way while young and have energy. I can't imagine starting a family in the 30's. I know a lot of couples did start in the 30's but I have seen the struggles and they always tell me they wished they had met in early 20's in order to have children it their 20's.

Edited February 13, 2010 by Holly IN
clarify

[Joanne]

You know, I wonder if in some situations, the courting arrangement brings too much intensity, scrutiny and expectation for the ages of the children? It seems to actually be counter to what some courting advocates state they want for their kids.

 

To me, if you are looking only at potential marriage partners, you should be old enough to make your own decisions and preferably living on your own.

[Joanne]

btw: I got married when I was 19. I am still married to the same guy at 19, 20 years later! :) So I am not a firm believer in waiting till 25+. The younger the better in my opinion (after 18 of course) in order to get children out of the way while young and have energy. I can't imagine starting a family in the 30's. I know a lot of couples did start in the 30's but I have seen the struggles and they always tell me they wished they had met in early 20's in order to have children it their 20's.

 

 

Wow. Really? I seem to be doing fine with my "energy" for my life having started my family at 30. My age peers seem to be doing fine. My xh and DH, who are older for the ages of my kids, seem to be able to handle it.

[Holly IN]

Wow. Really? I seem to be doing fine with my "energy" for my life having started my family at 30. My age peers seem to be doing fine. My xh and DH, who are older for the ages of my kids, seem to be able to handle it.

 

Good for you!! My energy level is a lot less at 37 than 26. ;) All of my friends who are in their 30's with kids younger than 6 have told me they are exhausted!!

 

Maybe it is the Indiana people that are weird!! :D

 

Holly

[Ginevra]

btw: I got married when I was 19. I am still married to the same guy at 19, 20 years later! :) So I am not a firm believer in waiting till 25+. The younger the better in my opinion (after 18 of course) in order to get children out of the way while young and have energy. I can't imagine starting a family in the 30's. I know a lot of couples did start in the 30's but I have seen the struggles and they always tell me they wished they had met in early 20's in order to have children it their 20's.

 

I am happy for you.:hurray: I do know a few young marriages for whom this is true. But I disagree with "the younger the better to get children out of the way". My thinking is that 18 - 23ish is the time to get life goals out of the way; going to college, training for a marketable skill, realizing what you believe in life and growing into adulthood independence. I think if you get married when you're 18 and start having babies, there's a good chance you'll be behind the 8 ball on establishing a living. It's not that I embrace completely "we'll have kids when we can afford them" thinking, but I just think it's better not to start down that road when you don't have your act together on making a living and having a place to call home.

 

And, conversely, I've known people who had kids early who said they wish they had been a bit older. More stability in life or wish they had completed their college or wish they had just experienced more of life before they were plopped right into motherhood. My sister, who has had it both ways, says she is a much more patient, grounded mother with her "later" babies than she was with her first two.

[Holly IN]

I wonder if the children early vs. children later is different geographically. Here in Indiana.... most of my friends prefer children in the 20s so they can expand their family size to the size they want instead of by their biological clock. The early crowd have 5+ children. I have total 6 but 3 are alive and well with us. The other 3 we lost in utero.

 

Anyway didn't mean to cause a bit of stir with getting children out of the way comment. ;) I am glad I had mine when I did. I love them all. I would love to have more but my tubes are destroyed from the ectopic preganancy so no more kids for me. "getting children out of the way" doesn't mean they are a nuicance and to get them over with. I just meant so you can have the number of kids you want or let God control that. Whatever it would mean to you...For me it meant I am able to enjoy my kids in their preteens and teens in my 30's and also to enjoy grandchildren while I am alive. Kind of selfish I know.... :D but I am really looking forward to the grandkids and still be considered young. :D

 

Sorry if I offended some.

 

Holly

[Rosy]

You know, I wonder if in some situations, the courting arrangement brings too much intensity, scrutiny and expectation for the ages of the children? It seems to actually be counter to what some courting advocates state they want for their kids.

 

To me, if you are looking only at potential marriage partners, you should be old enough to make your own decisions and preferably living on your own.

 

I think that's a valid point for some people. When DH and I got together, Joshua Harris ("I Kissed Dating Goodbye") was huge in our circle. We were both 23 and we honestly didn't know how to handle our relationship. Was it ok for us to spend time together if we weren't preparing for marriage? How did we handle things without involved parents? How did we "group date" without making our relationship public? We brought a friend along on one of our first dates and felt horrible the whole time--she was definitely a 3rd wheel and we all knew it. We got engaged after 2 months and married 4 months later. In retrospect, I think the courtship model failed us. We have a terrific marriage, but not because of how we approached our relationship before we married.

 

If one of our kids develops a serious interest before they move out, my preference is that a lot of their "dating" happens with our family or theirs, or with a trusted chaperone. If they're on their own, I can hope for things to go a certain way but it really isn't up to me anymore. I hope my kids are mature enough that I can trust them in this area and not feel like I need to control who they're with and what they're doing at every moment. I also know they need structure and boundaries though.

 

My preference is that my girls don't marry until their husband is able to support them financially, AND they have a degree and/or some other means to contribute to the family's finances when necessary. With my son, I hope he doesn't marry until he can support a family. So age-wise, I think mid-20s is ideal. I do know many couples who have kept themselves from physically and emotionally entangled situations until that age, so I do believe it's possible. My preference is that they be well-established as individuals before they marry...that is way outside of my control, though, and I do know many couples who married young and are still happy many years later.

[Ginevra]

I wonder if the children early vs. children later is different geographically. Here in Indiana.... most of my friends prefer children in the 20s so they can expand their family size to the size they want instead of by their biological clock. The early crowd have 5+ children. I have total 6 but 3 are alive and well with us. The other 3 we lost in utero.

 

Anyway didn't mean to cause a bit of stir with getting children out of the way comment. I am glad I had mine when I did. I love them all. I would love to have more but my tubes are destroyed from the ectopic preganancy so no more kids for me. "getting children out of the way" doesn't mean they are a nuicance and to get them over with. I just meant so you can have the number of kids you want or let God control that. Whatever it would mean to you...For me it meant I am able to enjoy my kids in their preteens and teens in my 30's and also to enjoy grandchildren while I am alive. Kind of selfish I know.... but I am really looking forward to the grandkids and still be considered young.

 

Sorry if I offended some.

 

I just wanted to say, I was not offended by what you said. I didn't take it to mean that kids are a nuisance and lets get that overwith. I also hope to enjoy grandchildren while I'm alive, but I look at my MIL as a model of what I wish for. She is 83 and has 17 grandkids who all live within 20 miles and most of whom are in her life continuously (except those who are adults or in college). She did not have her first child until she was...I think 31? Right around there and she was 43 when she had her last. :)

 

Anyway...just saying I think it's more ideal to be a little bit older and have your act together more than to start early because the body works better when your still a "baby". :D

[mom4him]

Is there really a good or bad or better age to get married? Really.

I was 18 when I got married, I am still married to the same man almost 43 yrs later. I can't say I married all for the right reasons but my dh has always provided for me and his dc, been faithful, etc. When I look at the marriages that break up or are unhappy it doesn't seem to have anything to do with age but the people themselves and whether they are really willing to work through the tough times. When I say they that is what I mean as it takes both of them working at it.

I do believe that the whole dating/courtship thing is something that each family has to work through themselves and set the standard that they believe is best for their individual case. I personally am against casual or recreational dating as I have seen where it takes so many kids and I have not ever really seen a positive there.

To me if my teen came and asked if they could go on a date I would ask two question:

1. Is this person you see yourself possibly married to?

2. Do you feel you are ready to take on the responsibility of marriage and family.

They need to be able to evaluate and make a decision with those two things in mind.

[Peela]

My 15yo daughter has just finished her first serious relationship - it lasted almost 6 months. She is a free spirit- he was too intense for her, texting her every hour and not giving her any space. She is now thrilled to be single and not in any rush for another relationship. I am happy with how the whole thing played out- we folded her boyfriend into our family as much as possible. We set boundaries- no being in your room with the door closed, no overnight camps without adult chaperones. He had a car- at first we didnt allow her to drive with him, but after a while, we did, but only on a day by day basis- they always had to ask. He was a very lovely young man- just too intense for dd. I honestly feel it was worked out better than if we had controlled her excessivley- because she herself has seen the pitfalls of serious relationships too young.

We are not against premarital sex but we are still very protective of our dd and dont want her throwing herself away on anyone. Fortunately, she is also very protective of herself and so it hasnt been an issue there- so far. Dh and I know perfectly well we can't stop her if she wants to, so my approach is just to keep the communicaiton channels open, and so far, so good.

The main issue for us has been parties, not relationships. Binge drinking is huge in the teen culture of where I live, and we feel she is at risk there. We don't want her going to parties where her friends that she knows through Scouts are getting sloshed and putting pressure on her. So far, she's against getting drunk- her boyfriend wasnt allowed to drink or brag about it in front of her- but "everyone" does it, and she is very social with lots of friends who keep inviting her to parties. We say no to parties, mostly, except with her homeschooling friends, but we can't keep her back forever. She is a natural party animal/ wild thing.

Ds14 is much more private and secretive than dd15. It will be interesting to see how it plays out with him, but so far he isnt seriously interested at all. I think he will take a relationship very, very seriously when he does finally get involved with someone, though. I hope he is mature enough to handle any heartbreak if or when it comes. We will see.

We dont do coutrship. Dating is a strange concept my kids don't seem to have. They dont date. They go out with groups of friends and chat online. Dd met her exboyfriend through Scouts- they had known each other for years- and one day they just decided to be boyfriend/girfriend. Nothing in between, no going to movies or anything.

Since my oldest is 15, I can't say yet what regrets I may have about how we are handling it all. But so far, so good, and everyone feels respected and not overly controlled (except about the party thing- dd definitely feels we are too controlling of her around that, but she also understands why and feels loved).

[Ginevra]

Is there really a good or bad or better age to get married? Really.

 

I think there is. :001_smile: Within the framework that we're talking about ideals here, and we know and acknowledge that most of this will come down to what our dc will decide for themselves, I do personally have opinions on what is a good, bad or better age (range) to get married. I agree with all you said about the necessity of commitment and choosing to stay married; no marriage lasts without it, whatever age you began. But I do think there is an ideal age, or at least an ideal stage of life when it is better to marry and there are ages, or stages of life when it's more likely that there will be difficulties. Let's not gloss over the influence of poverty and inadequate marketable skills. If two very young people get married and neither has adequate marketable skills, there will be the tension of insufficient money and inadequate ________________ (anything/everything else - shelter, clothing, food, resources).

 

Certainly, it's no crime to get married younger or older than ideal. And marriages work out when the people involved choose to work it out. There are aspects to my own marriage that I don't consider ideal, but we are still together anyway. (Dh is 8 years my senior; I don't recommend it. I never thought about or considered what that could mean down the road, not that I would change my decision if I had it to choose again.)

 

I'm a die-hard idealist. It's just the way my brain thinks! :001_smile: It doesn't mean nothing other than my perceived ideal could ever work or be beneficial. Just means, having thought this through, I have a well-developed opinion on it. YMMV

[ereks mom]

I got married when I was 19. I am still married to the same guy at 19, 20 years later! :) So I am not a firm believer in waiting till 25+. The younger the better in my opinion (after 18 of course) in order to get children out of the way while young and have energy. I can't imagine starting a family in the 30's. I know a lot of couples did start in the 30's but I have seen the struggles and they always tell me they wished they had met in early 20's in order to have children it their 20's.

 

Dh & I married at 19yo too. But we didn't start our family until 10 years later. Our first child was due the day after dh's 30th birthday (and was born 5-6 weeks early, which is a story for another thread ;)) -- a few weeks after our 10th anniversary. I can't imagine having started our family in our 20s. We were having too much fun getting to know each other! :001_smile:

[ereks mom]

We encourage courtship but realize people will make their own choices in adulthood. Also, I think our version of it is much looser than other people's (Duggars we are not!) though I do consider it the prelude to marriage, not a sport in and of itself. In addition to that, how much emotional and physical affection will be part of the relationship is at least partially a personal choice. One person may choose to keep certain physical holds, kisses, etc for after marriage while another may not think twice about them. This is really the case regardless in life. It goes against my conscience to watch a show another Christian may think is perfectly fine...

Of course, there is ongoing discussion about relationships, dating, marriage, sex, etc from childhood...

 

Ever since they were very young, we encouraged our dc to consider courtship instead of serial dating. Our idea of courtship was something of an amalgamation of the chaperoned dating/group dating model that Holly IN discussed in one of her posts in this thread. It worked really well in theory, but in practice, not so well.

 

ER chose not to date during his high school years. (This in spite of the fact that there were several young ladies who wanted very badly to date him!) Now he is in college (a junior) and has met a young lady there, and they have fallen in love and are making plans to get married sometime after they graduate from college. The courtship idea we held to earlier would not work well in a college setting, although they do often go out with a group of people rather than just the two of them. HOWEVER, a few months after they became interested in each other, and while MANY of their friends were pestering them to declare their intentions and "become Facebook official" (list themselves as "in a relationship" on Facebook) because in their circle this signifies that the relationship is serious ;)), ER & his sweetheart got together and posted this note to their friends on their Facebook pages:

 

So you've noticed that I hang out with ____ a lot. Since we are both asked about our "relationship status" around 134 times a day, we figured it would be efficient to explain "us" to y'all on facebook (since that's how things become official anyway).

 

The world has a pretty screwed up view of what a "relationship" should look like. Just because two people "like" each other doesn't mean that they have to "date." We're trying to build a foundation of love and care before letting emotion and attraction come into play.

 

You've all read 1 Corinthians 13:4-7...now go read it again. Love is an action. That's what the world is missing. It's a choice, a commitment-- not a feeling or an emotion that comes and goes. Love is not physical pleasure or an emotional high. It is based on the intersection of God's will in both our lives.

 

We don't want you to see us as an "item." Even the idea of a "Christian item" seems like it misses the point. But if that analogy works in your brain, we are an "item" on lay-a-way.

 

Romans 12:2 -- "Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind."

 

Matthew 7:13-14 -- "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."