Lancet retracts vaccine/autism study

[JillZ]

I went to school with guy that contracted polio from a live vaccine. Things don't get more obvious than that.

 

I worked at a place that mandated vaccines for Hep B. My friend and I went together to get ours. He reacted badly to it. I could see it happen. he was not well for over a week.

 

There is a federal government agency that keeps track of vaccine accidents/damages. VAERS

 

So just because you've never seen evidence of vaccine damaged people doe not mean that they do not exist.

 

You're right. I didn't mean for my statement to be applied so broadly. What I should have said was that I don't see any evidence in the scientific literature for a general link between autism and vaccines.

[Harriet Vane]

Giving slowly and carefully is a rather subjective, and unproven course of action.

 

Yes, it is subjective, but it's the best I can do with the limited knowledge I have. I evaluate based on the following:

 

--What disease is the vaccine attempting to inoculate?

 

--How serious are the potential consequences of becoming ill with that disease? If the statistical rate of fatalities or serious adverse effects from the disease is very low then we don't do the vaccine.

 

--What risk is there to my child at this age if he/she becomes ill with this disease? Is there a different age that poses a greater risk?

 

--What risk is there to my child in the place where he/she is right now?

 

I haven't had to research this in a number of years so I don't remember the specifics. I do remember long discussions with my doctor and another friend who is a doctor, and a lot of reading. Based on this research I made a list of what we would do and have just followed that for years.

 

I also figured that by going slowly (one at a time rather than multiple) that would give me the best way to observe my child for reactions and to minimize any reactions.

[TravelingChris]

Let me give an example of co-incidence not causality. Schizophrenia typically appears in late teenage/early adulthood. College attendance and enlisting in the military also occurs in late teenhood/early adulthood. But neither college nor military service is a cause of schizophrenia. Before brain imaging, some doctors hypothesized that separation from families and cold mothers caused schizophrenia. With brain imaging and seeing that schiophrenics have holes in their brains, most doctors have changed their minds about causation. But you may very well run across someone who still believes in the wrong causes.

 

Oh, and in terms of autism and the Amish. I have no knowledge whether they have autism in their families or not. But I do know they have very high rates of bipolar disorder. WE know that is genetically based. I believe that autism is genetically based too since the rates in families is much higher than we would suspect for non-familial reasons. We know there are autistic clusters in some areas that have a lot of tech people. I don't think it has anything to do with vaccinations.

 

Definitely vaccines can cause problems. But those are rare and I am completely unconvinced about straight vaccine-autism causality.

[Haiku]

Oh, and in terms of autism and the Amish. I have no knowledge whether they have autism in their families or not.

 

My dh's uncle does a lot of woodworking and has a working relationship with an Amish family. I have been to this family's home and met their children. By the mother's own admission, one of their children is autistic.

 

Tara

[briansmama]

And to top it off, not only are they not the same kind of mercury but there are higher levels of methylmercury in a can of tuna than the levels of ethylmercury found in vaccines such as the seasonal flu and H1N1.

 

This kind of thing is what irritates me about mis-information and scare tactics. Many people opt out of seasonal flu vaccines and have opted out of the H1N1 vaccine because of the "mercury" in them but they get much higher levels of the mercury that is known to cause harm in a can of tuna fish but most don't think twice about cracking open a can of tuna.

 

I don't blame most of those people however. They are making their decisions as best they can with the information they have. I blame the people out there that publish articles and make reports on these things that use fear mongering techniques instead of the scientific evidence.

 

Here's a quote from a board-certified physician who studies the effects of vaccines on children's health:

 

"Well, what is a safe level of a poison? Twelve and a half micrograms of ethyl mercury at birth is 25 times the EPA "safe level." The 62.5 mcg of ethyl mercury that a 10-pound infant was receiving at two months of age can be up to 125 times the EPA "safe" level. That's a seriously toxic dose of mercury. This metal is especially hard on premature infants. The post-vaccination level of mercury in the premature infant's blood can rise to ten times that of the term infants."

 

Do you have any research that explains the safety of ethyl mercury?

[LibraryLover]

And not necessarily the Amish. I used them as an example of vaccinated children. I could cite my own child as anecdotal evidence as one with out vaccines and does not have autism. Hence the request for good scientific studies on the subject.

 

 

Would link the Amish study? I can't find it.

[LibraryLover]

But I'm not asking about anecdotal evidence. I'm wondering if anyone has a source for numbers, studies, research. I still can't find anything, and I've reworded my search several times.

 

And not necessarily the Amish. I used them as an example of vaccinated children. I could cite my own child as anecdotal evidence as one with out vaccines and does not have autism. Hence the request for good scientific studies on the subject.

 

I also can't find any replicated studies that link MMR with autism.

[LibraryLover]

Here's a quote from a board-certified physician who studies the effects of vaccines on children's health:

 

"Well, what is a safe level of a poison? Twelve and a half micrograms of ethyl mercury at birth is 25 times the EPA "safe level." The 62.5 mcg of ethyl mercury that a 10-pound infant was receiving at two months of age can be up to 125 times the EPA "safe" level. That's a seriously toxic dose of mercury. This metal is especially hard on premature infants. The post-vaccination level of mercury in the premature infant's blood can rise to ten times that of the term infants."

 

 

 

Do you have the name of the physician and a link? My cousin (with the 3 yr old who gets ABA servicies) keeps a flie of this sort of info.

[LibraryLover]

You're talking about something else, which is risk vs beneift. So, it's not that your thoughts are not valid. I think they are. But they have nothing to do with the issue at hand, which is whether vax, or the MMR, causes autism. Don't get me wrong, I too have delayed and scattered vax, but we have no evidence that this approach changes autism rates.

If all it takes is one particular ingredient or group of ingredients to cause autism in a child, does it matter when the vax is given?

 

Great Britain has seen a a significant rise in childhood measles. (Note: which is not to say that getting measles can't be mild in some children, just noting that measles has been on the rise since the MMR vax fell significantly out of favour there a number of years ago). GB has not, however, seen a decrease in autism. If fact, as in the US, the autism rates have risen. If not giving MMR decreases autism rates, we would see it first in GB. Sadly, we haven't

 

Mind you, I am not talking about whether it's a great idea to give a chicken pox vax to a 3 yr old, or whether a girl of 10 needs a shot to prevent sexually transmitted cervical cancer. Those are different issues.

 

Yes, it is subjective, but it's the best I can do with the limited knowledge I have. I evaluate based on the following:

 

--What disease is the vaccine attempting to inoculate?

 

--How serious are the potential consequences of becoming ill with that disease? If the statistical rate of fatalities or serious adverse effects from the disease is very low then we don't do the vaccine.

 

--What risk is there to my child at this age if he/she becomes ill with this disease? Is there a different age that poses a greater risk?

 

--What risk is there to my child in the place where he/she is right now?

 

I haven't had to research this in a number of years so I don't remember the specifics. I do remember long discussions with my doctor and another friend who is a doctor, and a lot of reading. Based on this research I made a list of what we would do and have just followed that for years.

 

I also figured that by going slowly (one at a time rather than multiple) that would give me the best way to observe my child for reactions and to minimize any reactions.

Edited February 6, 2010 by LibraryLover

[Audrey]

I am not against splitting up the DPT and MMR shots though which should be an option so that parents can opt to get one shot per visit.

 

 

My 2 cents:)

 

 

That would have helpful. Ds had the combo and a bad reaction. I refused to vac him any further. That's not "misinformation." That's response to a specific experience. FTR, he is not autistic even though he had that first shot. Whether there is a correlation between vaccines and autism or not doesn't affect my decision to stop vaccinating. There are a lot of reasons people don't vac.

 

FWIW, I don't give a rat's patootie for all the arguments about herd immunity. I'm not offering up my kid on any sacrificial altars for anyone or anything.

 

ETA: Most of this post isn't directed at you, Priscilla. Your post was just the one that became my jumping off point.

Edited February 5, 2010 by Audrey

[Harriet Vane]

You're talking about some thing else, which is risk vs beneift. So, it's not that your thoughts are not valid. I think they are. But they have nothing to do with the issue at hand, which is whether vax, or the MMR, causes autism. Don't get me wrong, I too have delayed and scattered vax (my youngest has never been vax'd, although we are planning a couple in the next year), but we have no evidence that this approach changes autism rates.

If all it takes is one particular ingredient or group of ingredients to cause autism in a child, does it matter when the vax is given?

 

Great Britain has seen a a significant rise in childhood measles. (Note: which is not to say that getting measles can't be mild in some children, just noting that measles has been on the rise since the MMR vax fell significantly out of favour there a number of years ago). GB has not, however, seen a decrease in autism. If fact, as in the US, the autism rates have risen. If not giving MMR decreases autism rates, we would see it first in GB. Sadly, we haven't

 

Mind you, I am not talking about whether it's a great idea to give a chicken pox vax to a 3 yr old, or whether a girl of 10 needs a shot for cervical cancer in case she becomes sexually active. Those are different issues.

 

I see what you're saying.

 

I do fear an autism link, most specifically because of my friend's experience with her son. It's one thing to read things and wonder, and quite another to know a child who had an adverse reaction and is autistic. I am not a doctor or scientist, and my strengths are not in that area (I have a degree in English and writing). I can concede that there may be physical factors specific to this child that caused his vaccine reaction, but I simply do not know. It seems none of us really do.

 

Spacing out vaccines and choosing only those that seem to provide the clearest benefit seems to protect against autism because it minimizes the exposure. I do not know if that holds any water from a scientific standpoint--it's just my every day common sense reasoning. Put less in the body and perhaps there won't be a reaction, or any reaction may be smaller because there is less to react to.

 

On a different note, I worry that finding answers will be very, very difficult if not impossible. So many things have changed in our lives over the last century. We've had major changes in diet--what we eat is not nearly as nutritious as when my great-grandmother lived on the farm. We have a LOT more pollution in the air. We vaccinate. Heck, let's even throw in the all-pervasive presence of computers and electronic devices. Is there one factor responsible? None? The combination?

 

It seems that all we can do is muddle through and pray for the best.

[LibraryLover]

 

It seems that all we can do is muddle through and pray for the best.

 

 

Yep. That's pretty much how I approach all of life, just in general. :grouphug:

[LibraryLover]

Here is a description of some MMR/autism studiesstudies.

 

 

Nice work, Perry.

 

Parrothead-- those first 3 Google links you find about their being no autism in the Amish-- whose links are those?

 

Do you know how certain links gets to appear at the top of Google University? Fact: It's not usually because it's the most valid information. Are any of those 3 links selling anything? Are any of those links from research programs? Are the rest from Dan Olmsted? His 'research' is a sham. He has cultivated a lie about the Amish and No Autism. Everything about that will lead back to him. Because its on the interent, or at the top of Google doesn't mean it's reliable 'research'.

Edited February 5, 2010 by LibraryLover

[LibraryLover]

I think there are a lot of people for whom no amount of discrediting and retraction will change their opinion that vaccines cause autism.

 

Tara

 

 

:iagree: But I wish there was a sad face for this sign. How'd I miss this? It's so true. Reminds me of AIDS denialists who bury their own children. You can think you're right with all your heart, you can even wish something true with all your heart, but that doesn't change reality.

[Haiku]

Reminds me of AIDS denialists who bury their own children.

 

Yeah, I mentioned Christine Maggiore upthread.

 

Tara

[LibraryLover]

Yeah, I mentioned Christine Maggiore upthread.

 

Tara

 

 

Ah, missed that too. It's a long thread and I thought I could stay away. :)

 

If she had taken the newer, proven drugs, if she had given them to her child, they would both be alive today. Until the end, she cultivated the lie that children were dying from AIDS meds. She ignored that absolute fact that children being treated with current protocols are living healthy lives. Sometimes I cry for her misguided hope. Mostly, however, when I think of her, I get angry. I pray that anyone with a child with AIDS or with a child suspected ofhaving AIDS relaizes how wrong she was and gets their child into treatment. Myabe her poor dead baby woke some people up.

 

These denialists (some fairly prominent in the natural community) still continue to deny HIV cause AIDS. They continue to site the first, older protocol treatments for ADIS from years ago, which did have some devastating affects. It's not 1988 anymore, people. We know a hell of a lot more now. Those folks have blood on their hands. People think the entire alternative community is less corrupt or more knowledgeable than many in the mainstream medical community, and that is just not true.

 

The money changing hands for 'herbal' or vitamin treatments, chelation (as in the case of autism) etc is astounding. Some alternative health practitioners are simply Monsantan types in Birkenstocks. Some just go where the money is/

 

And I say this as a homebirther, natural product- user, and owner of Arnica cream. :tongue_smilie:

 

The Olmsted machine, fi, continues to run. He must be right, even if some of his facts are made up, because of course the entire mainstream medical community is corrupt. They even withold the cure for cancer, even as their own children die from cancer. That's true. I read it on the internets.

Edited February 5, 2010 by LibraryLover

[Haiku]

She ignored that absolute fact that children being treated with current protocols are living healthy lives.

 

At an orphanage in another country where we sponsor a child with HIV, in the one year before ARVs (anti-retroviral medications) were available for the kids, 27 kids died.

 

In the four years since ARVs became available, 2 (possibly three, but I think just 2) have died.

 

I was thinking about Christine Maggiore when I was in the shower after I posted about her this morning. I feel for her young son, who lost his mother and his sister to willful ignorance. I have a hard time feeling sorry for her, though, because of the devastating effect she had on so many lives.

 

Tara

[Joanne]

I was thinking about Christine Maggiore when I was in the shower after I posted about her this morning. I feel for her young son, who lost his mother and his sister to willful ignorance. I have a hard time feeling sorry for her, though, because of the devastating effect she had on so many lives.

 

Tara

 

Wow. I didn't realize she died. I was still blogging when her dd died and I wrote a series of posts about it. My "angle" was that I didn't like that "natural" parenting would be associated with her, the extremism, her dd's death. I got hate email.

 

Alternative for alternative's sake is naricissistic.

[mommaduck]

I doubt this is the one you are referring to, but the case that was "won" in the vaccine court was one in which a child had a pre-existing (but at the time undiagnosed) mitochondrial disorder which a vaccine then "set into motion" a series of events with a "bundle" if you will of symptoms and behaviors that coincide with what most people would call "autism". (Kind of how scientists are speculating that many people carry the gene for MS, but most people never have it "activated" by severe stress or injury)

 

a

 

Correct, that is not the one I was referring to. This one was a personal friend of mine. Mitochondrial disorder was suggested as to why our daughter reacted the way she did (different reaction, not autism). Due to that genetic possibility we were highly recommended to not continue vaccinations for her or her siblings. It is very plausible that that is also associated in the case the I know of. However, this is information that should be mentioned to the parent as a possibility. And when doctors say, "these are the normal reactions; the rest almost never happen" is more than deceptive. They do happen...more than is reported.

 

How do you know this? A temporal association doesn't prove causation. Autism becomes apparent in the first years of life, a time when kids happen to be receiving vaccines. Millions of doses of vaccines are given in the first 2 years, and you are bound to see symptoms occur soon after a shot, just by chance. In Autism's False Prophets: Bad Science, Risky Medicine, and the Search for a Cure., Paul Offit tells this story:

 

When you have a child that is walking, talking in complete sentences, and nearly potty trained...you take him in for his vaccination and within three days he suddenly is unable to do any of the above, reverting back to an infantile state, then yes, there is definite association to believe that there is causation.

[asta]

Gene associated with seizures, autism, and hepatomegaly in an Amish girl.

 

Whenever you want to find a medical study, go to scholar.google.com (no www). Every so often you will luck out and get a full text article, but most of the time, you will only get an abstract of the study. Quite often, your search terms will come up (like "autism, amish"), but when you see the abstract, they won't give the the bit that actually talks about the search terms (even though that is what the article is about).

 

Another great site is Pubmed. It is operated by the National Institute of Health.

 

 

a

[asta]

Yes, it is subjective, but it's the best I can do with the limited knowledge I have. I evaluate based on the following:

 

--What disease is the vaccine attempting to inoculate?

 

--How serious are the potential consequences of becoming ill with that disease? If the statistical rate of fatalities or serious adverse effects from the disease is very low then we don't do the vaccine.

 

--What risk is there to my child at this age if he/she becomes ill with this disease? Is there a different age that poses a greater risk?

 

--What risk is there to my child in the place where he/she is right now?

 

I haven't had to research this in a number of years so I don't remember the specifics. I do remember long discussions with my doctor and another friend who is a doctor, and a lot of reading. Based on this research I made a list of what we would do and have just followed that for years.

 

I also figured that by going slowly (one at a time rather than multiple) that would give me the best way to observe my child for reactions and to minimize any reactions.

 

Oh, I don't know...

 

Largest mumps outbreak in years spreads as more than 300 cases diagnosed in New York suburbs

 

Investigators say the outbreak started in August 2009 at a Jewish summer camp in Sullivan County with an 11-year-old boy who brought the disease from England.

 

CDC version of the same info

 

Complications of Mumps

 

In children, mumps is generally a mild illness, and complications are rare. When complications develop, they may include:

 

Infection of the brain (encephalitis) and/or the membranes that cover it (meningitis).

Inflammation of the testicles (orchitis) or ovaries (oophoritis). Orchitis may cause sterility in extremely rare cases; oophoritis does not appear to affect long-term fertility.

Hearing loss.

Inflammation of the pancreas (pancreatitis).

 

Miscarriage, which may occur in a woman who has mumps during her first 3 months of pregnancy. There does not appear to be a link between mumps and birth defects.1

 

Adults who are infected with mumps often have more severe symptoms and are more likely to develop complications than children. However, long-lasting problems from complications are rare.

 

Citations

Litman N, Baum SG (2005). Mumps virus. In GL Mandell et al., eds., Mandell, Douglas, and Bennett's Principles and Practice of Infectious Diseases, 6th ed., vol. 2, pp. 2003–2008. Philadelphia: Elsevier.

 

What could go wrong?

 

(yes, that is a snark)

 

 

a

[Laura Corin]

I'm sorry, but I just can't get past "Lancet." To us, lancet means just that: the device dd uses to puncture her finger to produce a blood sample with which to test blood glucose. Dd has Type 1 diabetes and tests blood sugar (glucose) an average of 8 times a day. Fortunately for her, it has become a relatively painless procedure. But every time I lance my finger, it hurts for hours. I cry for the callouses dd has developed that allows her to lance without pain.

 

From their website:

 

When Thomas Wakley founded The Lancet in 1823, he announced "A lancet can be an arched window to let in the light or it can be a sharp surgical instrument to cut out the dross and I intend to use it in both senses". This philosophy remains at the heart of the journal today.

 

Laura

[kalanamak]

From their website:

 

When Thomas Wakley founded The Lancet in 1823, he announced "A lancet can be an arched window to let in the light or it can be a sharp surgical instrument to cut out the dross and I intend to use it in both senses". This philosophy remains at the heart of the journal today.

 

Laura

 

And what they mean by their title would be, in American English, "Scalpel". The "sharp" used to prick a finger is a "blood lancet". I know fingersticks are crude and brutal, but I see the effects of good sugar control. It is miserable man trying to replace elegant nature, and we must praise it as we curse it.

 

:grouphug:

[Lawana]

From their website:

 

When Thomas Wakley founded The Lancet in 1823, he announced "A lancet can be an arched window to let in the light or it can be a sharp surgical instrument to cut out the dross and I intend to use it in both senses". This philosophy remains at the heart of the journal today.

 

 

Laura

 

Thank you, Laura. Interesting.

When I posted, I was having a poor me pity party regarding the devil that is diabetes, and I reacted to the word "lancet."

[Lawana]

And what they mean by their title would be, in American English, "Scalpel". The "sharp" used to prick a finger is a "blood lancet". I know fingersticks are crude and brutal, but I see the effects of good sugar control. It is miserable man trying to replace elegant nature, and we must praise it as we curse it.

 

:grouphug:

The thing is, dd doesn't even react to pricks anymore. Her fingers are so calloused, it doesn't hurt. I, on the otherhand, have been monitoring my blood sugar for the last few days, "just cause." Each prick hurts for a few hours.

And yes, frequent checks do lead to better control. I just wish we could get approval for the continuous glucose monitoring system, but insurance denied claim. One has to be over 25:confused:. And don't get me started about what is passing for an "artificial pancreas."

Sorry for the hijack.

[Pink Fairy]

It is miserable man trying to replace elegant nature, and we must praise it as we curse it.

 

:grouphug:

 

What a thoughtful description. It really caught my attention with the truth and beauty and pain of it.

[smalltown mom]

This interview is long, but it would be good for some of you to watch at least the first several segments. Many lies were told about Wakefield and his study methods, and some of you are just regurgitating the lies. He did not perform any unethical tests. They were medically indicated according to the symptoms the children were having.

 

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/04/10/wakefield-interview.aspx

[nmoira]

This interview is long, but it would be good for some of you to watch at least the first several segments. Many lies were told about Wakefield and his study methods, and some of you are just regurgitating the lies. He did not perform any unethical tests. They were medically indicated according to the symptoms the children were having.

 

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/04/10/wakefield-interview.aspx

Interesting, I was just reading Brian Deer's latest on Wakefield this morning. I just don't see Wakefield as a victim here.

[mcconnellboys]

I saw this a while back. I'm actually surprised it took them this long to retract, since they've been under a ton of pressure ever since they let it run.....

[MeganW]

I believe that they believe that. I don't think they are making it up. But when researchers look at videotapes of these kids they saw evidence of autism before they ever received the MMR.

 

 

I was one of those who really thought it was irresponsible and ridiculous NOT to get your kids vaccinated according to the government's recommendations. And then 2 of my kids ended up being those whose futures were sacrificed for the greater good. And it was all for nothing. They could have gotten those exact same vaccinations on a slower schedule and possibly ended up avoiding the problems we have. One of my biggest regrets as a parent.

 

I think for most kids, vaccinations are pretty safe. But there are kids (like preemies) whose immune systems just can't handle the overload of getting 4 or more doses of major infections at once. And unfortunately you really don't know until too late whether your kid is one of those who will be affected or not.

 

It is very difficult to prove the link b/c you have to have had an MRI or CAT scan about 2 weeks after the vaccination, and just because most victims don't have the medical evidence to prove it doesn't mean that their medical issues are not vaccine-related. There is a big difference between the truth and what is provable beyond a doubt.

 

After my triplets got their MMR (and several other vaccinations), I noticed major personality changes in two of them. MAJOR. OVERNIGHT. At first, I thought, well, they don't feel good because of the shots, give it time. Then I thought maybe it was due to teething. Then I thought maybe it was a sudden onset of the terrible twos. After maybe 9 months, I realized that these personality changes were permanent. Of course by then it occurred to me to wonder why it happened to two out of three at the exact same time, but by then it was too late.

 

Both of these children have had full autism evaluations by the SC Dept of Disabilities' Autism Division. My kids had been watched by Early Intervention from the beginning due to being born 9 weeks early, so we had a lot more records than most people. The Division also did review hours of family videotapes, and they were unable to find ANY signs of autism from the tapes before the MMR shots. None. Even our Early Interventionist commented that although she didn't believe in the autism/vaccination link before that, she fully believed that my kids' issues were directly related to the vaccinations. As do I, obviously.

 

The stupid thing is that there IS a happy medium - you don't have to be a no-vaccine person or a fully-vaccinating on the schedule person. I'll tell you what I have done with child #4, and what I wish I had done with the others. ONE vaccination at a time so you don't overload the immune system beyond what it can handle, and no MMR before age 3, when the blood/brain barrier closes. You can still get fully vaccinated by age 6 or so, and not risk your child's brain. It's a win-win!

 

As for why there aren't tons of studies proving the link, well, who would fund them? Not the pharmaceutical companies who manufacture the vaccines. Not the government, who has a vested interest in everyone being vaccinated so we don't have epidemics. If there are some casualties, well, the govt's job is to look out for the majority. So who? The fact is that the vast majority of vaccine studies are performed by these two groups. Clearly neither is independent!

 

And please don't just assume that everyone who believes in this link is a total idiot who is uninformed and just running around like Chicken Little screaming and creating chaos about nothing. I consider myself to be above average intelligence (IQ in the 120s), I earned 1200+ on the SATs (old scale), graduated from Tulane with a degree in economics, and Clemson with a degree in accounting. I earned my CPA in less than a year after graduation. Brilliant, no. But reasonably analytical and intelligent and facts-focused, yes.

 

Google "Bailey Banks Vaccine Court" if you are interested in more info where the federal Vaccine Court agreed that Bailey Banks' autism was caused by the MMR.

Edited April 17, 2010 by MeganW

[cillakat]

They took it out in California years ago and the autism rates still went up.

 

The study was retracted because the author (Wakefield) lied about his results.

 

Yeah, there's that.

 

In 20 years, we'll know that fetal vitamin D deficiency was behind the autism epidemic - through various genetic pathways.

 

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=vitamin-d-and-autism

 

http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/health/autism/

 

http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/newsletter/new-harvard-paper-on-autism.shtml

 

The little green diamonds in the vitamindcouncil.org text are links to references.

 

 

 

All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.

 

and

 

"

The truth can wait, for it lives a long time

.

 

 

 

 

Arthur Schopenhauer

 

German philosopher (1788 - 1860)

 

We shouldn't wait any longer though. Be sure you're taking enough vitamin D to keep your blood levels in the middle of the reference range. Very very few are able to get enough from sun due to pesky little things like living indoors, working indoors, wearing clothes..... not to mention sun screen, sun avoidance and heat.

 

Edited April 17, 2010 by cillakat

[cillakat]

Unfortunately, the majority of those studies were conducted by the vaccine co's themselves.

 

 

Still though, logic and sound science must prevail. Regardless of who does the study, we need to assess the study design, methodology and results.

 

Our logic is fundamentally flawed if we discount the evidence based on who does it rather than *the quality of the evidence itself*.

[cillakat]

I wish I knew what to make of this entire debate.

 

I know a little boy who was speaking and interacting with other kids and his parents until he got the MMR and Pox vaccine at 1 year old. He was in Riley's playgroup.

 

I also have many friends on my autism loops who have experienced the same thing.

 

My two who have been diagnosed with autism spectrum disorders are the only two who were exposed to the MMR before the age of two - Austin got it at his one year checkup and had a horrible reaction, and Reece got it through my milk as a newborn when I was re-vaccinated. But then Austin was a very different (i.e. difficult!) baby even before he had the MMR. I don't know how Reece might have been since she got MMR within hours of her birthday.

 

 

 

Jennifer, the Vitamin D theory of autism really does, with astounding clarity, explain all of the points you bring up.

 

I believe you'll find it very interesting.

 

My kids were completely unvaccinated, born at home, nursed for - well, a really really long time. I'm *way* out there.

 

Yet I have been convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt, that vitamin D deficiency is at the root of the negative outcomes some have had after specific vaccines.

 

This year, I've started vaccinating my kids and myself.

 

The links are about 2 posts back.

 

All the best to you,

Katherine

[LunaLee]

Or anything else they "know" to be true.

 

But when my son was 2 mo old, the (former) pediatrician told me I should follow all his advice even though in 5 years he'd be saying the complete opposite. So I don't always think the medical establishment has it all figured out either. Which makes these types of discussions even harder.

 

Which is why they call it the "practice" of medicine...

[smalltown mom]

And please don't just assume that everyone who believes in this link is a total idiot who is uninformed and just running around like Chicken Little screaming and creating chaos about nothing. I consider myself to be above average intelligence (IQ in the 120s), I earned 1200+ on the SATs (old scale), graduated from Tulane with a degree in economics, and Clemson with a degree in accounting. I earned my CPA in less than a year after graduation. Brilliant, no. But reasonably analytical and intelligent and facts-focused, yes..

 

Actually, there are a growing number of educated professionals (we're talking lots of letters behind names) who are willing to take a stand and speak out against this "sacred cow" of vaccinations. I'm an RN by the way.

 

So sorry to hear your story, Megan. You'd think doctors would start listening to parents, when you have thousands and thousands who all share the same story: child fine+shots=child not fine within 24 hours. When this many patients complain of adverse reactions with any other type of pharmaceutical agent, it gets taken off the market.

[smalltown mom]

Here's Wakefield's responses to the allegations from Brian Deer.

 

http://www.ageofautism.com/2010/04/brian-deer-in-bmj-and-dr-andrew-wakefields-response.html

 

He had nothing to gain financially. It's obvious from watching his interview (see my previous link) that he honestly just wanted to help those kids, in spite of all the opposition from the powers that be.

[mcconnellboys]

Funny that at the time, high ranking folks such as the Prime Minister took their own children across to France to get separate vaccines. It certainly made sense to some.......

 

Dr. Boyd Haley, at UK (chemistry), is still a big fan of Wakefield so far as I know..... So is Dr. Watson, also at UK.....

[mcconnellboys]

And I'll just say this and then I'll shut my flapping yapper:

 

The few real, unbiased studies of GMO plant materials and associated altered bacteria/viruses that have been done have shown on MANY occasions that the altered DNA material CAN survive for long periods of time in the gut AND can recombine with the bacteria inside of and the cells of the host organism, causing changes that can result in various problems..... I certainly think that the same can be true of this viral material..... And for those with greater immune deficiency, I can see greater problems being created because of these changes.....

[mcconnellboys]

Well, maybe just one more thing: "Scientific research" today is largely not to be trusted. It is funded all too often by companies that have a stake in the results being favorable to them and the results amazingly always give them precisely the results they want, how amazing! And we, the people, have become the guinea pigs of big business.....

[MeganW]

Actually, there are a growing number of educated professionals (we're talking lots of letters behind names) who are willing to take a stand and speak out against this "sacred cow" of vaccinations. I'm an RN by the way.

 

So sorry to hear your story, Megan. You'd think doctors would start listening to parents, when you have thousands and thousands who all share the same story: child fine+shots=child not fine within 24 hours. When this many patients complain of adverse reactions with any other type of pharmaceutical agent, it gets taken off the market.

 

And yet even here, in this post, you have a LOT of people inferring that only those who are uninformed believe it.

[MeganW]

The few real, unbiased studies of GMO plant materials and associated altered bacteria/viruses that have been done have shown on MANY occasions that the altered DNA material CAN survive for long periods of time in the gut AND can recombine with the bacteria inside of and the cells of the host organism, causing changes that can result in various problems..... I certainly think that the same can be true of this viral material..... And for those with greater immune deficiency, I can see greater problems being created because of these changes.....

 

In our case, we were not allowed to leave the house other than for doctor's appts for the first YEAR of my kids' lives and for the second winter of their lives, because even a minor cold is often deadly to babies born very prematurely.

 

Given that a cold could do that much damage, how does it make any sense that being given doses of several of these major diseases simultaneously wouldn't do something worse? Again, obviously one of those things I really wish I'd thought through more thoroughly beforehand.

[smalltown mom]

And I'll just say this and then I'll shut my flapping yapper:

 

The few real, unbiased studies of GMO plant materials and associated altered bacteria/viruses that have been done have shown on MANY occasions that the altered DNA material CAN survive for long periods of time in the gut AND can recombine with the bacteria inside of and the cells of the host organism, causing changes that can result in various problems..... I certainly think that the same can be true of this viral material..... And for those with greater immune deficiency, I can see greater problems being created because of these changes.....

 

Such as the incredible prevalence of autoimmune disorders these days. Kind of seems like a no-brainer to me. What else could possibly be a more likely trigger for these diseases than introducing some foreign virus/protein into the immune system from vaccines (and GMOs)?

 

Does anyone know of a study that disproves this?

[mcconnellboys]

Unfortunately, there are plenty of bad science "studies", paid for by industry to provide the results they want to see, even if it means they do things such as pasteurizing fluids at double the temps for four times as long, etc., etc. to try to get rid of the effects they don't want to see and such as that.....

 

The funny thing is, any good, reputable scientist could take these studies apart and redo them correctly (and some have) and prove that they are all wrong - but those with the money and the governments who support them won't allow it to happen, or won't allow it to be publicized when someone does manage to complete an accurate study..... It's a sad, sad state we're in today. Scientists used to be independent. No more. Agencies such as the EPA, FDA, etc. used to be trustworthy. No more (and not for quite some time now, actually).....

 

All work now is done quid pro quo....

 

I did work in the state I lived in before concerning a nuclear power plant that had been built. The roads that were put in so that large parts could be transported in were not as they should have been and were causing water back up into surrounding countryside and killing the timber. Funny thing, the professor from a nearby university who had been monitoring the fish and other water life didn't find a problem during the build. Oh, but he suddenly stopped working for the university and was working for the company doing the build, instead. Hmmmm...... In fact, lots of folks mysteriously changed jobs and began working for the government contractor, the Federal agencies doing the monitoring, etc. And mystery upon mystery, when these folks were confronted with the fact that we actually *read* all the docs they produced in discovery and had found many irregularities, a major contracting company, which had been in business for decades, suddenly dissolved and quite business all together within the year......(but I'm sure there were other jobs waiting for them)..... Would I be a bit surprised if there turn out to be major problems with this nuclear plant down the road? What do you think?

[FaithManor]

I don't know if this link is okay to post. I haven't educated myself on the policy since this is not something I would normally do. But, I think the bigger issue in this entire discussion is not if a specific vaccine causes autism or other health problems, but if ingredients and the accumulation of toxins does.

 

Here is a link to the ingredients list of the common vaccines given during childhood, I hope this is okay but understand if it is deleted by the admin.

 

http://www.novaccine.com/specific-vaccines/vaccine.asp?v_id=10

 

We have allowed very limited, very delayed vaccines due to a family history of severe reactions on my side of the family. That said, had I ever read the ingredients list, I might not have allowed any. There are some pretty scary components.

 

That said....everyone, even babies, absorb or flush toxins at differing rates of speeds and there are many factors that influence this. The fact that so many vaccines contain formaldehyde is just appalling. School students are no longer allowed to dissect animals preserved in formaldehyde because of its carcinogenic qualities. That's with gloves on and assuming that it aerosolizes! So, jeepers.....injecting it into a body seems like a pretty stupid thing.

 

I think this is why there is so much anecdotal evidence of vaccine harm and yet it seems to show no pattern that can be identified. It probably has more to do with the "crud" in the vaccines than the weakend or dead virus but since bodies absorb and shed toxins a wildly different rates, it is hard to scientifically pin down.

 

I personally think they'd be okay, on a common sense schedule, if the FDA and EPA actually did their jobs and refused to allow the poisons.

 

Faith

[smalltown mom]

Thanks for the link, Faith. Interesting how with vaccines, they give you the info AFTER they've already injected your kids. With other medical procedures, you're allowed to give informed consent BEFORE.

[6packofun]

((((Megan)))) Bless you, what a difficult road.

 

I wish that people would acknowledge that a link can exist that is *not* a direct causation link. So what if children "have" early autism or risk factors or genes (or whatever) and very well may develop it anyhow. If vaccines are triggering it or worsening it somehow, then by God, parents deserve to KNOW and not be labeled emotional, biased, alarmist, etc. etc.

[cjbeach]

I'm a RN who had a NT (neurotypical) kid who was vax injured and stopped speaking. He was dx'd 13 mos after his injury. Coincidence? Who knows really but I'm a firm believer that there are enviornmental insults that "trigger" a pre-loaded individual (aka... the bullet theory).

 

My son had a reaction to the mmr, broke out in full-blown measles and was really sick for about 2 months. During that time he stopped speaking (so at 17 mos he lost what speech he had). Luckily we were on top of it and he was in Early Intervention by 19 mos. Unfortunately the more I attended therapy over the years with him, the more individuals I ran into who had similar stories. Yet I have one very, very holistic friend with a non-vaxed child who breastfed forever and her son has ASD so... there's so much MORE to the story. We've only scraped the iceberg.

 

I don't believe it's the "cause" but I believe there is a "correlation." I believe in a metabolic and/or immunologic connection. And I believe there is a genetic component. Ironically a close family is part of Dr. Hakonarson's team at CHOP and I was banking on some kind of "A ha" moment with their latest published study but it was a repeat of former studies. Nothing new.

[Mommyof4ks]

((((Megan)))) Bless you, what a difficult road.

 

I wish that people would acknowledge that a link can exist that is *not* a direct causation link. So what if children "have" early autism or risk factors or genes (or whatever) and very well may develop it anyhow. If vaccines are triggering it or worsening it somehow, then by God, parents deserve to KNOW and not be labeled emotional, biased, alarmist, etc. etc.

 

This is what I wonder about too. Is it something in the vaccines or the virus in the vaccine itself. In other words, could the actual virus cause or trigger autism in the same way that some viruses cause or trigger cancers (HPV-cervical cancer and so on). There are some areas with high rates of unvaxed kids around the country, so we will begin to find the answer to this soon. Some kids may get the disease and end up with autism too. It is interesting that the MMR shot is the target since it is a live virus shot.

[s0nicfreak]

A safer whooping cough vaccine started to be used in Japan in the 80s, but didn't start to be used in the US until the 90s. Instead of using the safer vaccine, they made the NCVIA ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Childhood_Vaccine_Injury_Act ). The existence of the NCVIA shows that, while they may not cause autism, vaccines obviously have the ability to cause SOMETHING. Is the risk of those somethings, the risk of permanent damage or death, better than the risk of getting an illness that will go away after time and that is not fatal in this country anymore? Especially when your child is unlikely to encounter many of these illnesses?

[asta]

I don't believe it's the "cause" but I believe there is a "correlation." I believe in a metabolic and/or immunologic connection. And I believe there is a genetic component. Ironically a close family is part of Dr. Hakonarson's team at CHOP and I was banking on some kind of "A ha" moment with their latest published study but it was a repeat of former studies. Nothing new.

 

I know fully vaxed adults and kids who are absolutely, positively NT, and fully vaxed adults and kids who are on the spectrum. I strongly believe that, like multiple sclerosis, scientists will eventually find that some people just have a genetic precursor that "shows up" (or not). When, how, where (or not) - will be different for everyone (just as it is now).

 

I also believe that humans, on the whole, are moving towards a more specialized, rather than generalized, species. Highly functioning people on the spectrum tend to be very specialized in their interests and abilities. Whether one agrees or not, I don't think ASD is an "epidemic", I think it is the future. And, as with all dramatic changes to the gene pool (think: massive plagues and illnesses that whittled Europe to only the strongest human "stock" if you will during the middle ages), only those children who rise beyond food allergies and intolerances, inabilities to interact on a basic level, and severe immune difficulties will perpetuate the species.

 

I truly believe there is a reason that all of us ASD kids who got the living snot beat out of us in the 60s and 70s for "being weird", were told to eat it or not eat... that that 'conditioning', however horrible it seemed at the time, gave us a leg up on the evolutionary scale. It has also given us a well from which to draw on how to teach our own kids to operate within 'society'.

 

Do I advocate kids getting beaten up for 'being weird'? Of course not. But I also won't let my kid hide and play video games. Even if I must force him into an uncomfortable situation (yes, you're going to this class), he MUST learn to defend himself. He MUST learn how to conduct himself in ALL social situations. He needs to know HOW to eat weird foods, even if he never intends to - and he needs to know how to decline gracefully. There is a reason all those forks are made and placed on a formal table.

 

We do our children a great disservice if we spend so much time arguing about who or what is to blame that we forget that we need to help them become as operational as possible in the world into which they have been thrust. They are made of our genes. We can try to blame Monsanto, Pfizer, or whomever we want, but ultimately, they are our flesh and blood, and we have to deal the deck we have.

 

 

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