Have you ever been "taken" in a hard sell? And educational point...

[Ginevra]

Dh and I were just talking over dinner about a strange thing that happened to him today. He wound up unexpectedly in the position of being pitched a "hard sell" by a lady selling internet advertising services. He did not cave, but we were talking about how amazingly well-designed such ploys are to break down your defenses.

 

I was "taken" in a situation like that when dh and I were first married. I had pretty much forgotten about it (more like burried it back in the part of my mind where all horrible blunders and embarrassments hang out). I got suckered into signing up for a modeling school. :blushing: Fortunately, I had an attack of awareness on my drive home and managed to Fed Ex them my cancellation within the three-day back-out period. Looking back, I can see how perfectly calculated and groomed I was for a "yes", even though I consider myself not at all gullible and very sensible. Dh and I talked about how it is almost evil how hard-sells are designed to break down your defenses, play your emotions, work your guilt and invoke your imagination of what "could" be if only you would buy this product/service.

 

And my follow-up question is this: Do you currently or in the future plan to teach your dc how hard-sell marketing works? Do you intend to teach them to be skeptical by a country mile when hard-sells come their way?

 

:lurk5:

[ThatCyndiGirl]

Yes, we talk about it, but mostly because it irritates me so much that I can't shut up about it! I almost got taken for the modeling school, too. I, too cancelled within the three day period.

 

 

I really do think that it is evil. When I was in retail and corporate was always coming up with the latest sales pitch we were supposed to spew I would say, "you DO realize that it only pisses people off, right?"

 

They didn't like me very much.

 

I used to sell Pampered Chef and my schtick was, "this is the stuff. If you want it, great, I'll sell it to ya, but if you don't, that's cool,, too". I didn't do the "would you like to have your party on Saturday or next Tuesday?"

 

I didn't want people to cringe when they saw me coming and think, "awww, geeze, she's just gonna try to sell me something!"

[StephanieZ]

I definitely believe that being an educated, and skeptical, consumer is an essential skill. Hard-sell tactics are but one of the many aspects of marketing/etc that I want my children to be savvy about.

 

From toddlerhood, my dc and I talk about sales tactics, marketing, etc. They know that we don't buy happy meals. . . b/c restaurants are for food, not toys. . . and they sell toys to entice kids into buying food. . . etc etc. . . They know I don't do broadcast TV (only videos) b/c "advertising convinces you to want things you don't need. . . and to forget what matters. . ." etc etc etc etc. Marketing tactics are everywhere. . . teachable moments occur daily. . .

 

I will definitely do some structured study of advertising/marketing at some point in the teen years. . .

[IsabelC]

Yes I do plan to teach the kids. At 6 and 4 years old, my eldest two are just up to the stage of discussing advertising and marketing, as they have grasped the basic point that other people want us to buy things that we may not want/need, and will use "trickery" to make us buy. We have talked about things like package design (picture of happy family on cereal box is trying to tell us that we'll be more like them if we eat that kind of cereal), supermarket layout (aisle end cap displays are there because that company paid more to have their product displayed more prominently), and so on. We will be talking about it more comprehensively as the kids mature, though. Even for educated adults, reading a few sales manuals is a good way to become more aware of tactics that are used nowadays.

 

ETA and don't forget about her aspects eg viral marketing, product placement. At least with a pushy pitch you know they're doing it.

[Heidi @ Mt Hope]

Yep. One was a vacation time-share. We had a complete attack of remorse and cancelled the next day. I've been to a few more presentations and I am so very aware of the tactics they use, so we've had no trouble saying no. But, by golly, do they make you feel guilty for saying it. Apparently, we don't love our children, have no plans to create memories with them, are workaholics, can't do the math when it come to vacation budgets, will never go anywhere exciting, will have regrets the rest of our lives....

[angela in ohio]

We discuss it constantly, and we have had many chances to point out things like this to dc. We have explained why we don't let them participate in chain letters (send ten dollar bills and you will get hundreds in return,) why we are careful about not letting them sell things that other people don't want but will buy out of pity for kids, why advertising works, why you don't ever get something for nothing, and so forth. We seem to know a high number of people involved in pyramid-type businesses (I think homeschoolers must be drawn to these in higher numbers,) so we talk about those. We talk a lot about psychology and economics and how people decide to do the things they do and what pressures are on them.

 

This is one of the reasons I teach dc logic. It enables them to break down an argument and decide what the motives of the speaker are and what information is being withheld or misused.

[MomOfOneFunOne]

The hard sell tactic just makes me mad and it's actually easier for me to say no. Now, give me a sob story and I might cave. My husband has tried to get me to see that the sob story is just another hard sell. Sometimes I remember, sometimes I don't.

 

I had not thought to discuss this with my daughter but my husband did. Their catch phrase is "Sales Gimmick!" and just about everything that isn't 100% true, accurate, transparent gets the label. He tells her why this or that is a Sales Gimmick and sometimes will point things out and ask whether this or that is a Sales Gimmick and why.

 

One time she brought a package of gum that claimed to freshen breath, whiten teeth, and . . . something else (tripple action). She said, "Mom, I know it's a Sales Gimmick but it worked on me. May I have it?" So, sometimes it works, sometimes not. Just like me.

[G5052]

I think in many ways it's worse than ever. One blogger I read compared the Internet to the Wild West -- full of outlaws, people trying to escape who they are, and lots of snake-oil salesmen.

 

If you don't teach them now, they'll get taken sometime down the road, maybe at a time where it's a real hardship for them.

[PiCO]

Yes, I fell for the vacation time-share sales pitch. I cancelled out after I checked it out, which I had told them I would probably do.

 

I think the best training to avoid the pushy sales pitch is to go through a sales training seminar put on by a company that wants to hire you to do their sales pitch. Or just sit through enough of them.

 

I get a LOT of sales calls through my business. The last really bad one I had was for a "fundraising" company. Wow, he was pushy. I asked too many questions and he basically gave up. ;)

[Mrs Mungo]

I don't think I've ever been taken by a "hard sell," that sort of thing usually ticks me off. I I do sometimes get taken in by other sales tactics. I totally bought and have never really used Edu-Track, for example. :tongue_smilie:

[IsabelC]

Our strategy is to have a blanket rule that we never ever buy (or donate to) anything where they approach us, whether by phone or in person. We follow this no matter what, even if we are approached about something we were planning to buy already. (If I am interested in the product or charity, I just make a note of it to check out online later). This policy means that I don't have to stop and think whether I'm interested, or what I should say, it's just an automatic no. (I will probably never live down the occasion when I was pounced on by a chugger in London whose opening line was "Do you care about starving children?" and I said "No" over my shoulder as I walked straight on.)

[Audrey]

Yes, we talk about it, but mostly because it irritates me so much that I can't shut up about it! I almost got taken for the modeling school, too. I, too cancelled within the three day period.

 

 

I really do think that it is evil. When I was in retail and corporate was always coming up with the latest sales pitch we were supposed to spew I would say, "you DO realize that it only pisses people off, right?"

 

They didn't like me very much.

 

I used to sell Pampered Chef and my schtick was, "this is the stuff. If you want it, great, I'll sell it to ya, but if you don't, that's cool,, too". I didn't do the "would you like to have your party on Saturday or next Tuesday?"

 

I didn't want people to cringe when they saw me coming and think, "awww, geeze, she's just gonna try to sell me something!"

 

 

That's how I am about Avon, which I've done for years (not really to make money, but more because we use that stuff!). I don't bug people. I always have a few current brochures with me, and people will ask for them. It's great if they order, but I don't bug their butt calling them. Amazingly enough, the soft sell works pretty well. I think people appreciate NOT being put on the spot. I know I do. :001_smile:

[lollie010]

was when dh and I were shopping for a dining room table. I kind of liked one that the salesman showed us but it was not exactly what I wanted. He rudely said "SO tell me where will you eat dinner tonight?" Umm perhaps at my perfectly good dinette, thank you. I walked out of there so fast I broke my flipflops. It took us five years to go furniture shopping again.

Edited January 28, 2010 by Laurel T.

[IsabelC]

Amazingly enough, the soft sell works pretty well. I think people appreciate NOT being put on the spot. I know I do.

Absolutely. There is one person I occasionally order stuff through, but it's only because she has never tried the hard sell. She only recommended a product after I had said I was looking for it and asked whether there might be something suitable in their range.

 

So has Avon started to train representatives in the Soft Sell yet? ;)

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Sometimes we will get junk mail and the kids and I will sit down and dissect where it is trying to manipulate us. Short time offer, reduced price, extra goodies. Once we went through every scrap of paper in one of those animal card set offers. We figured out the price per card, including shipping. Then we compared it to the price of a nice animal encyclopedia.

 

The book Why We Buy is a great read that helps to explain the theories of marketing that you are being subjected to.

[IsabelC]

The book Why We Buy is a great read that helps to explain the theories of marketing that you are being subjected to.

I have (and love) that book.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I was in urgent need of a replacement car after mine was totaled in a fire.

 

We went to one giant used car place looking for a light SUV. Horrible hard sell. The guy refused to tell me the price to any car. He kept repeating, "We just want to make you happy." I finally told him that $500 would make me happy.

 

The worst was that I had said that I didn't want to test drive any of the cars. He proposed riding back to the office in one of the trucks. Then he pulled out of the lot and drove onto the freeway. I was sitting in the back with salesman driving and dh in the passenger seat. I told dh that when they were done with whatever they thought they were doing that I was ready to go home. I was so peeved. The guy just never seemed to clue in to the idea that the truck was for me, not dh. Or that I had a brain.

We refer to this at the time the used car dealer kidnapped me.

[swimmermom3]

When we found out I was pregnant with our first child, we decided it was time to trade in my dh's little black Celica with sunroof for something bigger and a little more sedate. We took it to the dealership and found our new sedan. For some reason, the salesman and manger did not take us into an office to discuss the trade-in. We were discussing the financial aspect right on the showroom floor. The manger said in a rather loud voice, "Well, we can't give you much for the trade-in because that Celica has been wrecked." Ohhhhhhh! I said in an even louder voice, "Funny, you didn't tell us that when we bought the car from you." You could have heard a pin drop in that showroom.

 

Since I worked in advertising sales for several years, we began discussing advertising with the kids early on. "Well, the naked lady is supposedly selling champagne." (Moet-Chandon) "Why is she naked?" "Good question."

[katemary63]

Our strategy is to have a blanket rule that we never ever buy (or donate to) anything where they approach us, whether by phone or in person. We follow this no matter what, even if we are approached about something we were planning to buy already. (If I am interested in the product or charity, I just make a note of it to check out online later). This policy means that I don't have to stop and think whether I'm interested, or what I should say, it's just an automatic no. (I will probably never live down the occasion when I was pounced on by a chugger in London whose opening line was "Do you care about starving children?" and I said "No" over my shoulder as I walked straight on.)

 

This is exactly what we do. The answer is no.

Here's my story:

 

My sister once recieved a letter in the mail saying her 3 year old daugher's "talent" and "beauty" had been brought the the attention of a talent agency. She bought it and called the number, making an apointment for her DD to be "interviewed." The guy came to her home, raved on and on about the girl and "agreed" to "sign" her. This is in the Chicago area. Anyway, The cost for the first photo shoot and other such stuff was about $600. My sister didn't have it so the guy was kind enough to take post dated checks for the full amount! My sister was SO excited she took the whole family out to dinner to celebrate. Again, money they didn't have but what the heck, DD would soon be earning lots of money so....

Well, I KNEW this was a scam and called my sister to tell her. She said she knew I was going to be jealous of her and her DD. Um....no. Well, it turns out that my sister tried for a year to schedule the first "photo shoot" but it never materialized. They never even got a single picture for that $600! Nothing.

[s.z.ichigo]

Oh man...nothing irritates me more than pushy salespeople. Walking through the mall is the absolute worst. The kiosk companies hire cute foreign girls to tackle people who pass by and hold their product infront of their low-cut shirts, and will NOT give up until you've passed well out of ear-shot.

 

My husband is a commissioned salesman who works in the same mall for a company that sells mattresses. The company is always pushing him to use their sales pitches and their scripts, to get people to buy more than what they need. he flat out refuses. Not surprisingly, his lead/sales ratio is better than average, and the number of returns he gets are very very low compared to others who follow the company plan.

BUT he doesn't sell nearly the amount of bedding and pillows that they want him to be selling. That store has historically sold little in the way of accessories. It's just the way the local market is. So he gets in trouble all the time for not selling that (overpriced) stuff to people who don't want it anyway. As a result it is hard for him to get an annual raise, and he will never be promoted. Being honest has a price.

He was also a car salesman for a few years. Unfortunately the only way to make any money in that business is to cheat people and lie, so he eventually left. His advice, btw, is to NEVER trade in your car to the dealership. They make it look like they're giving you money for it, but theyre just burying that money elsewhere and/or hiding rebates and discounts to make up for it. You're way better off selling your old car privately.

 

I'm always really surprised by how ad-savvy my daughter is. I am always talking to her about the ways the ads we see are trying to trick us and I guess it really took hold. Now when commercials come on she'll chime in with "blah blah blah, we don't care about what you're trying to sell". One day we had a conversation about what "junk toys" are, and she quite happily went through her toy collection and got rid of all the junk we'd accumulated. Not surprisingly, it was all the stuff she never plays with .anyway. She also no longer asks for happy meal toys. It also makes me extremely proud when she sees merch. from the latest Disney princess drek and turns her nose up at it.

[nono]

You know, one of the sad things about being on the "do not call" list is I don't get to hone my skills as much as before the list existed. I'm very contrary, so when the leading questions are asked, it's so easy for me to say something that is not on the "salesperson's" script. For instance, "Mrs. X, don't you want to save hundreds on your total food shopping bill?" That one is just too easy -- "No. I like paying full price. It makes me feel rich." The stammer is audible on the other end of the phone. :) This style of "salesmanship" is truly insulting in my book. So, those using it get back from me what is being put into it.

 

I will go on timeshare sales pitches on vacation sometimes. Just for the sport of it. I had a salesman once huff at me that "He wouldn't deem me an appropriate person to sell this quality timeshare to..." :lol: He has no idea how much he made my day. :D

 

There's absolutely no reason for this type of "angle" to be played, unless the product is purely useless/overpriced. Teaching my children to evaluate the value of an offering is something I do all the time.

[MomOfOneFunOne]

I forgot to mention but last night's meeting reminded me . . . my daughter is in a Catholic girls' club (called Challenge) and they also discuss this topic in a way. The really discuss how media and associated advertising try so hard to hook them. Last week they dissected a newspaper to analyze mostly the advertising but also other aspects to to see how they are targeted and what they're being targeted for. Last night they made their own commercials and after someone burns it to cd, we'll get to see them next week.

 

I thought it was a great idea. I really do want my girl to be a savvy consumer.

[hillfarm]

About the only tv dd watches is PBS, which is "supposedly" commercial free. Yeah, right. Anyway, even when she was young we played the What Are They Trying To Sell Us game, and honestly, sometimes it was hard for even me to detect the product. IMO, it is critical that we teach our children to be wise to advertising practices.

 

I also heard that one of the main things a person can do to make it more likely that they will get taken is to believe that they are immune to that. There are teams of scientists and psychologists working day and night to come up with the colors, sounds, pitches that make us buy. No one is totally immune. If you believe that it can happen to you, then you tend to be more on your guard against it. However if you are so sure that it can't happen to you, then you aren't as cautious and are much more likely to fall prey to the vultures. The report also said that those people were able to withstand the obvious and easy ploys but were the ones who bought into the large financial scams.

[lynn]

I teach my kids about the "hard sell". The only way to get most to stop is tell them "No Money"or "not on the budget". That pretty much ends their pitch. I don't even listen to what they are trying to sell. I had one guy try to tell me "wouldn't God want you to have the best? Won't he provide the money so you can have the best?" What?!?!?!

[unsinkable]

Not a hard sell but when I was 16 and working in a gas station I fell for a scam artist asking for change. I think I gave him $60.

 

I was so ashamed and embarrassed.

[Momma2Many66]

Does anyone know of any good books on the subject that would address the "hard sell" and how to avoid them or recognize them ?

 

I would love to find some good books on the subject for my teen's to read and learn before they head out into the world, preparing them for these types of situations beforehand would be essential to helping them make good decisions in their futures.

 

Thanks for any help you can offer me !

[AnneGabe]

I really do think hard sell techniques are horrible. I don't know about evil but definitely really, really wretched ways of interacting with other people. Selling or not you just don't manipulate people that way :glare:

 

My best friend from highschool got into hard sell marketing techniques when she married her husband since her husband is really into marketing.. pyramid schemes, hard sell, the whole package.

 

She drives me absolutely crazy with the way she tries to sell EVERYTHING in life now. And I'm not talking about for money! She's become so absorbed into the marketing thought process that every single conversation we have goes into a "sales pitch" as soon as she realizes I may disagree with her line of thinking.

It's put a huge strain on our friendship. In fact it got so bad for me that I was really close to completely ending our friendship. We're in the same church so that would be majorly awkward so instead of just been being brutally honest. It's still hard every time we get together to not let her manipulate me into doing things and buying things and thinking things I don't want to think.

 

This got long, but basically, yeah, I think hard sell marketing is a terrible way to act for anybody. I don't know how those people go home and sleep at night :tongue_smilie:

[Night Elf]

And my follow-up question is this: Do you currently or in the future plan to teach your dc how hard-sell marketing works? Do you intend to teach them to be skeptical by a country mile when hard-sells come their way?

 

It's a life skill, IMHO. I have no sympathy for a salesman that uses that tactic. If you can't sell a product/service honestly, you are taking advantage of the consumer which is akin to theft. No deal should be considered so pressing that it needs to be signed immediately. Even the purchase of a house or car is usually planned out beforehand, defined within parameters, so a quick decision might be expected in a hot market.

[Irene Lynn]

I agree. I sort of miss it, too. My daughter enjoyed the stories afterwards. That was the way I taught her. :)

[runamuk]

We fell for a hard sell 21 years ago and bought a Kirby vacuum from door-to-door salesman. We still have it and it works well, but we paid way too much for it.

 

The kids and I talk about the commericals we see on tv, whether it's for a toy or a kitchen product.

 

I ended a friendship with a woman because she was always trying to sell me her products. Every conversation turned into a sales pitch. I tried to be polite, then I was not-so-polite and she just wouldn't stop, so I stopped taking her calls.

[Ginevra]

Does anyone know of any good books on the subject that would address the "hard sell" and how to avoid them or recognize them ?

 

I was thinking of putting together a sort of curriculum in this vein. We do normally talk about things on TV and what-not; I want my kids to see every ad with a skeptical eye and to ask, "But what AREN'T they saying. And does something else do this adequately? Or less expensively?"

 

A very important point to hammer into the dc's brains would be this: There is no such thing as a purchase you must make immediately. Anything that is "limited time offer" or "must call now" or "sign today or lose the offer" is a lie and a warning. Why don't they want you to have time and opportunity to compare their product to the market? And if they are really selling something reputable, will they really turn down your offer to buy it at a later date? My standard line has become, "Leave me the info/send me the brochure and I will consider it." If this isn't in their picture, I would run away.

 

About the vacation time-share: funny story. When dh and I were on our honeymoon, we got roped into one of those time-share attacks...err, presentations. I was being politely, tolerantly, declining until the salesperson made his little chart to show how vacations are a necessity, because of all the health benefits from reduced stress. It was too ridiculous to me; someone who came from "po' white folk" who took two vacations in the course of my whole life. The absurdity of putting the cost of vacations into the same expenditure column as food and electricity was intolerable to me. I told him so! Dh was kicking me under the table, like, "Just agree with him and let us get outta' here!"

[Ginevra]

Also, I agree about the mall kiosks. They drive me crazy!!! My fingernails are fine the way they are, I don't want or need my eyebrows shaped and I already have a flat iron that works fine. :glare:

[Photo Ninja]

I have made it a point to discuss sales pitches and advertising with my dc from the time they were young. It has never been a one time conversation, but one that comes up as we see ads, hear sales pitches, etc.

 

When my db and I were young - early elementary school ages- an encyclopedia salesman came to the door. My grandparents were over, and my father answered the door. He started his pitch, and my father told him no, he was not interested in buying anything. The guy kept talking and said he just wanted to show them off. My father said okay, come in and show them to us, but I will not buy any. The guy was there for 30 min - an hour (a long time, I remember) and the salesman made those encyclopedias sound like candy to me, and I spent the time looking through them. At the end of the show and pitch, the guy asked if my father wanted to pay for it all at one time or put them on a payment plan. My father told the guy that he wasn't going to buy any, and said don't you remember that from before he came in? The guy got really mad and my grandfather was laughing at him and said, yes, he (grandpa) remembered my father saying he wasn't going to buy and that the guy insisted on showing them the encyclopedias anyway and said that my dad didn't have to buy them, just look. I think that was my first and only lesson in sales pitches.

 

When dh and I were celebrating our first anniversary we were in a lake resort area (staying at a relative's shared vacation house for free). We had very little money, but didn't need much for that vacation since we would have eaten anyway, and cooked for ourselves. There was a timeshare that we thought sounded like fun to tour, and they would give us a gift certificate for $100 for dinner at a steak house and $50 in tokens for gambling. We decided it would be a good way to get a free anniversary dinner and went. It was a very hard sell, but we had already decided we wouldn't buy. The salesperson finally got frustrated that we kept saying no and finally said that we could put the downpayment on a credit card. Dh said he didn't have one with him. The guy looked shocked and asked how we could be on vacation without a credit card. Dh said that he had this special card that goes into an ATM machine at the bank and it gives him his money. The guy got mad, but let us leave. We had told him before his pitch that we were not going to buy. We did get an excellent free steak dinner, with appetizers, drinks, salads, and desserts and we still didn't spend the entire gift certificate because we were there during early bird dinner specials and meals were cheaper. Dh played blackjack with the tokens and gave me the 'real' money chips and stopped after he spent the free tokens, and we had $80. This gave us enough money to see a show - the Chinese acrobats. Then we felt spunky and went to a different timeshare presentation so we could get 2 free tickets for a 3 hour lake cruise. We again said no to buying, but enjoyed our lake cruise!

 

My mistake (that I prefer to forget) was a phone sale that would give us a monthly service of some kind, free for the first 30 days, I don't even remember what it was for, and we had 30 days to cance to pay nothing, and could keep $80 in free gas coupins. I thought it would be a good way to get $80 in free gas. But, by the time we received the paperwork in the mail it was past the 30 day date of when I signed up for it, so we ended up having to pay for one month's service of whatever it was because I couldn't cancel in time. The gas coupons were for a gas company that didn't have any gas stations in our area, so we couldn't use them. Bad, bad decision. I haven't done that again, and have taught my dc never to buy anything from a salesperson who calls them.

[swimmermom3]

Does anyone know of any good books on the subject that would address the "hard sell" and how to avoid them or recognize them ?

 

I would love to find some good books on the subject for my teen's to read and learn before they head out into the world, preparing them for these types of situations beforehand would be essential to helping them make good decisions in their futures.

 

Thanks for any help you can offer me !

 

One thought would be to worry less about the "hard sell". Yes, it's still out there but you may prefer that your children be more aware of the "soft sell". Having been in sales, I appreciate a good salesperson, one who knows their product and helps me make a purchase I am happy with and that I won't regret. Use real life opportunities to talk with your kids about "upsells" in restaurants. Model polite but firm behavior with aggressive salespeople. Talk about the ads in your teens' magazines. Critique the commercials during sporting events on TV. Ask your kids what is really being sold. Those "Priceless" ads are perfect. "If you really love your parent, you will realize that time is growing short so you should take them back to your roots (Ireland) on a once-in-a-lifetime trip and you should charge it all on your Mastercard at 20%+ interest."

 

Kids are smart. They will love "translating" the real messages. They will also begin to see patterns in sales techniques. We create ads here once in a while for fun or look at some of the advertising awards-The Clios.

 

Teach them while they are young to deconstruct the message and remove the emotion.

[Crissy]

My younger son *loves* television commericals, so we talk about marketing regularly.

Recently, I realized he does listen (;)) when that horrible Special K commerical ran and he said to me, "I hate this ad. She is NOT fat. They just made her sit in a baby's chair so she'd get stuck and they can sell more cereal to ladies who think they're too fat."

 

:D