Making children attend church.

[smrtmama]

I don't think there's much to be gained by forcing church attendance. If anything, I think it drives children away from the church.

[dragons in the flower bed]

It sounds like your kids don't want to go because religious ed is boring. If that were the case with my kids (and it sometimes is even with our liberal and Pagan services), I'd make them go. There's a subtlety to the joy of religious observances that one learns to feel through repetitive exposure. Also, I wouldn't want my kids to stop doing something they actually believe in just 'cause it was getting to be a drag.

 

Maybe you could require them to find some other outlet for their spirituality before they stop going to church with you.

[Renee in NC]

I am the only one pointing this out, so maybe it is just me, but I don't think I would leave 8 and 11 yo home alone with a sleeping husband, certainly not for longer than 40 minutes anyway.

 

Why not? My dc are perfectly capable of supervising themselves at that age. My dh has to be there in case there is a problem with the 8yo, but my 11yo could stay home alone easily.

[Caitilin]

Why not? My dc are perfectly capable of supervising themselves at that age. My dh has to be there in case there is a problem with the 8yo, but my 11yo could stay home alone easily.

:iagree:Ditto.

[Renee in NC]

Well our family is like this, except that it is my dh who is Catholic and I'm a non-church going Protestant. I went to church with him for 13 years, but after both my kids were able to take communion and I was not, I quit going. I don't really care if my kids go to church regularly with him, I would much prefer we all find a different church where I would feel comfortable so we could all go together. My dh has made it perfectly clear that that's not going to happen. He has also expressed to me how important it is that the kids are raised Catholic, so I suport him on it even though I would prefer not to. When the kids fuss that they don't want to go to church, I don't cave in because I know it's important to my dh. Perhaps if you had a talk to your dh about how important it is to you, maybe you could get his support. Otherwise, have you considered finding a church that he would be willing to go to with you? I would cry tears of joy if my dh would consider a different church.

 

:grouphug:

I am sorry for your situation. I have told my dh that if he wants to go to a different church, I will attend with him. However, as a Catholic, I can't just change to a Protestant denomination - I would still have to follow my religion. I am more than willing to attend two different services on Sundays, but I can't just stop going to Mass.

[Renee in NC]

So, the update:

 

God must have read this thread this morning!:lol:

 

We went to Mass. For the most part, everyone behaved.:D This is Holy Family Sunday, and during the homily the priest repeated several times, "Children obey your parents!":lol: I kept nudging them and winking at them and they (jokingly) rolled their eyes.

 

Then, everywhere I turned someone was complimenting me on how well-behaved they are. Two different fathers commended me. Several elderly ladies stopped and talked to us. (We are a spectacle as we are the largest family in this parish and there are 2000 families!)

 

I also talked to the two boys about why RCIC is boring. It really boils down to one boy who is very, very difficult. The teachers spend so much time redirecting him, getting him off the floor, quieting him, etc. that they don't get to do the "fun stuff" anymore (skits, projects, etc.) I am going to talk to the priest and talk to the teachers of this class and see if something can't work a little better.

 

I do teach them their true religious ed at home. RCIC is mostly for "box checking" and the rites.

 

Thanks for all the input - I think I have a handle on this now.

[Caribbean Queen]

I once told my Catholic sister-in-law that church was boring to me and I didn't enjoy it. She said, "we don't go to church to enjoy it."

 

It's all about worshipping God in a manner pleasing to Him. If you believe that God wants your family in mass, then you go.

 

I don't understand why your children need to go to the long boring classes because your 8 year old isn't learning anything and I think you said you're 11 year old will not be officially joining the church anyway.

 

Here are things you might try to make mass more meaningul for your children.

 

Sing the litergical songs and hymns at home. Ask someone at church if you can take the books home. When you are in church, have the children follow along in the books. This made a big difference in my children. They started participating in service.

 

Read the Bible passages that will be read at church at home (They are on the internet) have the children follow along in their Bibles at church.

 

Teach them what the parts of the service mean.

 

Act very reverant and focused on the service. With little ones to watch, this can be hard, but I found that my little ones paid more attention to the service and acted more respectfully when I zoned them out.

 

Snacks help.

[Brigitte]

http://www.CatholicMom.com has activities, coloring pages, etc for little ones (and perhaps not so little one) can do during mass. These are things that actually force them to pay attention and learn and be engaged in Mass, but the kids think that they are just doing something fun and to pass the time. You might try some of those.

[zaichiki]

Have you tried MagnifiKid for your 8-yr old? My kids really got a lot out of this before they were able to use the adult missal. We brought one to Mass every week.

 

http://www.magnificat.net/magnifikid/index.asp

[KristenS]

((Hugs))

 

I'm sort of in your shoes, except with youngers, and we're Methodist. Dh is agnostic, but at least does support the kids getting a religious education. He feels the lack of it in his own life. We made the deal, pre-marriage, that the kids WOULD be brought up in the church, and he's honored that, though now that our kids are 8 and 5 and learning to ask hard questions ... it's been hard on him. He believes in honesty with kids, and so it's hard for him when they ask the tough questions.

 

Anyway, he stays home on Sunday mornings unless I specifically request him to come for some reason. So of course the kids would rather stay home and play with Dad! When they were smaller, I'd leave the littlest or wiggliest at home, and just take one. But now they have to come. We've at least managed to make it clear that if they stay home, it's time spent alone in their rooms ... they've learned that it's not playtime with Dad. He uses it to work on extra work projects and things.

 

I will say, this is the first year or so where I've really been pleases with the quality of their Sunday School education. I didn't enforce it as much when they were smaller partly because it seemed such a waste of time. Now it's much better. Even when they'd rather be home with dad, they do admit they have fun once they get to church.

 

Confirmation is usually around middle school age in our church. I will probably request they attend the classes (probably even help teach, knowing me), but won't insist on them making any vows unless they choose. I probably will still have them come to church while living at home, though.

 

I guess I got lucky. We didn't start attending church till I was in middle school myself, and I can't say as I got much education out of the classes, but I'm still at the same church now. As a college student I was lucky enough to get involved with a campus Christian group of another denomination, which served to feed me spiritually till things picked up at my church. I've still struggled with finding a good class for myself, but have recently come to a good one. I stay with this church because they're family, though, and I love the folks there. I think that makes a big difference. (Even if we are the only homeschooling oddballs, LOL.)

 

Raising kids is just plain hard, isn't it?

 

Hope that you can find some good alternatives.

 

ETA: Just read your update ... glad things are looking up!

[AnitaMcC]

Can you bring coloring books for everyone so they have something to do while they sit in mass? That might make the entire experience better for all of you. Or maybe those little felt story books?

 

This is what I do. I bring christian activity/coloring books for the kids to do while at mass. They do crosswords, word finds, coloring, trivial puzzles, read their Youth Bible, etc during mass. This is the only activity that keeps youngest "calm" during mass. Otherwise he starts rocking, humming, crawling, making other noises because he goes "into his head" when his mind isn't kept active to something "outside his head".

[AnitaMcC]

On one hand, they are very young, but on the other hand, "the Catholic Church *is* boring!":glare: :D

 

 

It doesn't have to be overly boring. The church we have been attending the last few years has been good and the kids don't mind attending mass. Parts of it was boring and youngest would start asking if mass was ending soon about 15 minutes into it-LOL. But overall they enjoyed some of it.

 

Many of the Catholic churches in our diocese offers one or two children masses. The children can attend their one session of readings and homily that is at their level and they do a hands on activity. Usually this is for ages 4-10 yrs old. Also most of our churches have a nursery for infants to 4 yrs old.

 

But we do have a new priest and he is boring!!!! I really liked the church until he came so it may be time for us to look around again. We will continue with the RE program as it is the only church that offers homestudy program as an alternative to RE classes (that I know of currently).

[2squared]

I found taking things for the kids to do during mass became way to distracting for us and for the people around us. Now, we sit in the first pew so the kids can see everything (instead of looking at butts in front of them) and we don't take anything to fiddle with. Our snacks don't get dropped, our toys don't make banging noises, and the kids don't fight over whatever we had brought. By the time they are 4yo, they can easily sit/stand/kneel for the hour. My 3yo still struggles, but he's a young 3yo and he's getting much better. I hold my 1yo, and her feet don't touch the floor. If she gets down, it's over. :tongue_smilie:

[AnitaMcC]

www.CatholicMom.com has activities, coloring pages, etc for little ones (and perhaps not so little one) can do during mass. These are things that actually force them to pay attention and learn and be engaged in Mass, but the kids think that they are just doing something fun and to pass the time. You might try some of those.

 

Yep, we print these out too. I also like printing out the readings so I can follow along in mass as I have a hard time hearing/understanding what is said.

[Quad Shot Academy]

Why not? My dc are perfectly capable of supervising themselves at that age. My dh has to be there in case there is a problem with the 8yo, but my 11yo could stay home alone easily.

 

Like I said, I might be the only one, so if you are already leaving them home alone or with hubby sleeping, it shouldn't matter.

 

I don't worry about my children getting into trouble, but it would be illegal in my state and if someone turned me in, or there was a problem, I would possibly loose all my children. I am not taking that chance, when they could just as easily come to church with me!

 

I am a very overcautious person though. ;)

[Renee in NC]

Like I said, I might be the only one, so if you are already leaving them home alone or with hubby sleeping, it shouldn't matter.

 

I don't worry about my children getting into trouble, but it would be illegal in my state and if someone turned me in, or there was a problem, I would possibly loose all my children. I am not taking that chance, when they could just as easily come to church with me!

 

I am a very overcautious person though. ;)

 

Illegal for them to be home with Dad there sleeping? Wow, never thought about it. What do you do if the child wakes up before you do? My dc get up before me sometimes. The 7yo gets up and gets the baby up on a regular basis. They play until one of us gets up. He's perfectly capable of supervising him.

 

A google searched turned up various places saying that in FL the child has to be 12, but the FAQ on the 8th Circuit Judicial Court says there is no minimum age.

Edited December 27, 2009 by Renee in FL

[Laurie4b]

Obviously the difficulty lies in the fact your DH does not go. I don't mean he should (it is his choice), but it is hard to make your children go if he won't go. This is how my mother was raised. My grandmother made her go to church even though she didn't go. She literally dropped my mother and her brother off. Do you think when my mother was an adult she then decided to go? No.

 

I was dropped off at church by two parents who didn't believe and as teen, I became a Christian and would attend church of my own volition., I do believe and do attend. My mother eventually came to believe as well (I was in my 30's by then)

 

I didn't hate it. It wasn't grippingly interesting, but I was spiritually hungry, and eventually, I became a Christian.

 

So sometimes kids who get dropped off can get some good of it.

[mommaduck]

Each state's laws are different on leaving children home alone. Rural and Urban can make a difference as well. Length of time gone, etc.

[Quad Shot Academy]

Illegal for them to be home with Dad there sleeping? Wow, never thought about it. What do you do if the child wakes up before you do? My dc get up before me sometimes. The 7yo gets up and gets the baby up on a regular basis. They play until one of us gets up. He's perfectly capable of supervising him.

 

A google searched turned up various places saying that in FL the child has to be 12, but the FAQ on the 8th Circuit Judicial Court says there is no minimum age.

 

I don't think you will find an exact law. A few states have an age 12 or 13 law to be home alone or to babysit. (Which I think is nuts! You can't be home alone one day, but the next you can watch someone else's kids!) My state recommends age 12, but they press charges on a case by case basis.

 

I have read numerous reports of children being taken away from mothers who have fallen asleep on the couch and the children got into trouble or wandered off. I worry a lot about the morning time and late nights too. I need much more sleep than my kids, but I don't snooze unless they are in bed or watching TV. I suspect most of us have dozed off at one time or another, but for me it is about limiting the likely hood that something will go wrong. If I hear their voices, I force myself to get up. I worry about them choking on cereal in the morning, so I don't want them eating until I am up.

[Claire in NM]

It sounds like you alone are making all the decisions regarding the religious upbringing of your children, and, because you are now unsure about what to do, your DC are questioning the importance of attending. Talk to DH. Once you have both come to a consensus on how to deal with this situation, then it will again become clear.

 

As for leaving the kids alone, most states suggest 12 years of age without 2 hours of adult supervision. If a child under 12 gets into trouble while a parent is sleeping, some would believe that to be negligence on the part of the parent. You might want to take the youngest DC.

 

I hope this is helpful to you.

 

Claire in NM

[Renee in NC]

It sounds like you alone are making all the decisions regarding the religious upbringing of your children, and, because you are now unsure about what to do, your DC are questioning the importance of attending. Talk to DH. Once you have both come to a consensus on how to deal with this situation, then it will again become clear.

 

As for leaving the kids alone, most states suggest 12 years of age without 2 hours of adult supervision. If a child under 12 gets into trouble while a parent is sleeping, some would believe that to be negligence on the part of the parent. You might want to take the youngest DC.

 

I hope this is helpful to you.

 

Claire in NM

 

I have talked to my dh and he has no opinion at all. That's pretty much how he is about everything. I think it is because if he says, "I want them to be Baptist" then he will have to do it - I can't. There is no consensus to come to - he just doesn't care enough either way to worry about it.

 

I always take the youngest dc - I was only talking of leaving the 8 and 11yo. If they can't hang out while Dad sleeps without getting into trouble, then I have done something wrong.

Edited December 28, 2009 by Renee in FL

[ubermomto5]

this is such a difficult situation for you and it makes me sad to hear it. it must be very confusing for your children. if your dh truly does not care if they go or not you will not be successful in making them go. my motherly instincts would be to talk to these children individually about the situation. express all your feelings about why you feel it is important to them now and in the future for them to participate. if you have a strong feeling of faith it will be felt by them. be honest about your husband's feelings too and that you do not agree and that it is ok. i would also probably expect them to attend until a certain age when you feel they are old enough to make a decision. 12 is probably the right age. if you make it not a 'win lose' situation but a 'this is what we do until you are old enough to decide' you may get results. then i would make sure that the church experience is the best you can provide. never underestimate the importance of friends & wholesome activities in getting children interested. they may only go because of friends for a while but with your help would learn to appreciate the rest. this is from my own feelings and the dynamic of my family but maybe it would give you some ideas.

[Lovedtodeath]

I just read Ubermom's post, and I agree, but I think that 12 is too young. I think 16 or 17 is the age that I was ready for such a decision.

They are bored because it is boring! They spend 2-3 hours every Sunday in this class and so far have gotten to Joseph in the Bible.

 

His objection to Reconciliation is that he will not tell the priest what he has done wrong. This is a child who struggles (and struggles and struggles) with perfectionism and refusing to take responsibility for his actions. The thought of going into a room with another person and telling him his sins is enough to cause him to break out in hives!;)

 

My 8yo is just plain bored. He can't read, has problems processing auditory info, and has the attention span of a flea. It is an absolute waste of time for him. He also thinks that everything in life must be fun and if it isn't fun it isn't worth doing.

 

I can't (and won't) make them join the Church, but then why go?

 

I'll admit that I am a little frustrated about Mass - I get up and get everyone ready (by myself), go to Mass (just me and the dc), sit through Mass while trying to keep the baby from screeching, the 3yo from crawling under the pew, the 7 yo from bugging his 5yo sister, and the 8yo from making a scene. If the 11yo is particularly perturbed about being there any certain Sunday, then he adds to the madness. Then comes donuts and coffee and on Sundays where they have RCIA, I spend the next 1.5 hours wasting time waiting for the older 2 to get done (they leave partway through the 9am Mass and are finished at noon.)

 

I *dread* Sundays. I imagine they can sense it as they act the *worst* at Mass than anywhere else.

I was going to tell you that I would make them go but.... after reading this I would just work on personally teaching and training them. I would not let them get out of that.

[ubermomto5]

i was trying to imagine being in this situation myself. when i was dating my mom's repeated caution was, 'you marry whom you date' and i knew that if i wanted to raise my kids the way i was, going to church every sunday and having that be a way of life, i'd have to marry someone of my religion and beliefs. i have found it is hard enough even when you both agree. personally, we haven't had issues but we will expect them to attend with us until they move out. and hopefully by then they will know for themselves. but the OP does not have her husband's support and i cannot imagine forcing a 16 year old to go to church if he did not want to.

[Haiku]

I guess I have a hard time with the idea of just letting them decide for themselves at such young ages.

 

Just because they make a decision now does not mean they will always stick with that decision. The world is overflowing with people who were raised in religious homes who have left the religion and people who were raised in non-religious homes who embraced a religion when older (I am one of the latter). Religion is so intensely personal, and I honestly believe that what a person chooses to believe has very little to do with whether they went to religious services as a child.

 

ETA: I just got to the post about your son being afraid to confess and your other son wasting his time in the religious ed classes. Frankly, if this continues your sons will possibly develop a lifelong aversion to church.

 

Tara

Edited December 28, 2009 by TaraTheLiberator

[Renee in NC]

i was trying to imagine being in this situation myself. when i was dating my mom's repeated caution was, 'you marry whom you date' and i knew that if i wanted to raise my kids the way i was, going to church every sunday and having that be a way of life, i'd have to marry someone of my religion and beliefs. i have found it is hard enough even when you both agree. personally, we haven't had issues but we will expect them to attend with us until they move out. and hopefully by then they will know for themselves. but the OP does not have her husband's support and i cannot imagine forcing a 16 year old to go to church if he did not want to.

 

I was not religious when we married and I did not become Catholic until 2 years ago, so this doesn't have anything to do with when we dated. *I* changed the rules, so to speak. I am not upset at my dh about this or anything, please don't get the wrong idea.

[Haiku]

I was not religious when we married and I did not become Catholic until 2 years ago

 

So you are exactly the situation I described in my post, and you know for yourself that the decisions you make and the religious life you have growing up are always subject to change. Don't put too much pressure on yourself.

 

Tara

[Kari C in SC]

I don't have an exact answer for you, but I can share our family situation with you and maybe that will help. My dh is a Christian, but really has a lot of anxiety with going to church. He just can't be still and sit there for over an hour. It is not that he against it or hates it or anything like that, just has whatever the issue is with his anxiety attacks that make it difficult for him to sit in a crowded church. BUT, even before he had anxiety disorder - he wasn't really one to go to church.

 

We have 3 kids - one is nearly 21. When he was young we did take him to church on and off, but - honestly - neither one of us really knew what we believed, etc. As he grew older, we didn't really attend church. We were not anti religion, we just didn't seek it out a whole lot. Right before my ds went to the Army, my dh talked to him about God, Jesus, being saved, etc. My ds (who I will say is an amazing guy) said he believed Jesus existed, but he just wasn't so sure he was our savior. He was more of a great guy that lived. My dh was not happy that we hadn't made it clear to him who Jesus was. I talked with my ds on and off while was in boot camp and at one point he said something about his dad not believe since he didn't go to church. I told his dad. His dad - who never shops on his own - went to the book store. He found this bible with flames on the front (my ds loves fire, explosives, etc). He bought it for him and highlighted some of his favorite verses. Off it went in the mail to his boot camp. I don't know what my ds believes. I am sure he will find his way much the same way I did and in his own time.

 

That brings us to our younger kids. When we moved to SC, I started taking the kids to Calvary Chapel. I had visited this church while on trips to SC. Our extended family attends. I really like the church, so for the first time in my adult life, I take the kids regularly. At first, I don't think dh had an opinion. It was fine if I went or fine if I didn't. Then the above happened and we sat down to talk about it. My dh really things he failed our oldest by not exposing him to Christ. So, I am going to require my other kids go with me to church. My dd just started whining a couple weeks ago about not wanting to go. She was tired, etc. I made her get up and go. At some point, I may change my mind when she is maybe 17 or 18, but for right now - she has to go.

 

As parents, my dh and I really do try to learn from our past. Overall, we are happy with our choices for raising our oldest. This religion choice with him was not our best and we would like to change it with the others. Good luck to you!

[tdeveson]

There are a lot of things young children don't want to do, like eat their vegetables and brush their teeth and take a bath, but we make them because it is what we know is best for them. I went to church 3 times a week from birth until I was 16yo. There were MANY times I didn't want to go but it was never even up for discussion.

 

When I was 16yo my parents let me choose and I walked away from church. Sound like a horror story? It wasn't. Because I came back. All that I learned from my parents and from going to church never left me and when I matured I went back.

 

I guess this can go both ways. Growing up, I went to church two or three times a week. Sunday mornings was the worst. It was the one thing I feared all week -- working up to Sunday, getting up before I was ready to, going to see people I didn't care about at all, and trying to sit still in a crowded church while the preacher droned on and on and on and on.

 

When I was old enough to just say no, I did. I never stepped foot in a church again, and I'm fairly certain that my negative views on all religion are directly related to having been forced as a child to submit to church and prayer circles and all that other stuff my mom was so fond of.

 

I agree that kids don't always want the things that are best for them. Gosh, they almost never do! But forcing children to go to church so they'll be good Christians when they grow up may or may not work out. All those years of church made me the happy atheist I am today.

 

My poor mom never got over it. She was really never able to understand how forcing me to do something I hated with all my heart for all those years didn't make me love it. Also, I should note that she, the preacher, the preacher's wife, and every person in that church prayed for my wayward soul.:lol: So much for the power of prayer.

 

Just my opinion, based on my life experience.

Edited December 28, 2009 by tdeveson

[fivetails]

All those years of church made me the happy atheist I am today.

 

My poor mom never got over it. She was really never able to understand how forcing me to do something I hated for all those years didn't make me love it.

 

My folks are atheists and can't understand how all those years of keeping their kids away from anything that even remotely smelled like God resulted in the oldest growing up to be a Christian homeschooling mama who won't wear pants. :laugh:

[Dobela]

I believe that the Bible is very clear - we are responsible for the religious instruction of our children. I also believe that we will be held accountable for our actions and have to answer for our choices on judgement day. When Christ sent the apostles out into the world to teach the gospel, he didn't tell them that their own children were exempt from instruction or that it would be acceptable for children to not be taught. I would make my children go to church with me. My oldest is 9 and church is not an option. When we go, he goes. He is not allowed to miss except for illness or other parent approved reasons. If he is at his grandparents, they must bring him to church or we will pick him up. He is always welcome to take friends and we will take as many as he wants to invite, but he is not missing church to play more. When he is out of my home and supporting himself, then it is his choice.

 

I would consider changing churches however if there seems to be a consistent problem that is effecting their growth as Christians. If you can change churches or parishes, I might consider that if the only problem is the boring class. Sometimes a change in teacher can be the best thing. We have been known to ask for new teacehrs or allow our son to self promote to another class if allowed. Or arrange for private instruction. When we were very unhappy with the children's instruction at our congregation we did seriously consider leaving and finding another place to worship.

[tdeveson]

My folks are atheists and can't understand how all those years of keeping their kids away from anything that even remotely smelled like God resulted in the oldest growing up to be a Christian homeschooling mama who won't wear pants. :laugh:

 

Exactly! In my opinion it's a waste of time to force children to be one religion or the other. When they're adults they'll find their way.

 

I teach my son that God is a construct created by man. He agrees with me now. When he's 30, for all I know, he might be a missionary. I have no control over my son's mind right now, much less when he's an adult. I do know that if I force him to do something he considers unpleasant over and over again, I may not get the results I'm after.

[Murphy101]

didn't read replies...

 

I don't think this is really about church.

 

I don't care if they are bored. Such is life. It isn't always entertaining. They will get over it. Frankly, I think it is important they learn to value what is there rather than to only value what is easy and fun.

 

Their rude behavior at mass is also not the fault of mass. Being bored or not likely where they are is not a valid reason/excuse to behave poorly. If you were attending something else, say something educational related, what would be the consequences for their behavior? Why are they permitted to act that way at mass when you would (I hope) not permitt it elsewhere?

 

These two things above would prompt my dh to back me 100%. In fact, he is basicly my Enforcer in the pew.;)

 

I do care if they don't believe, but I think that is all the more reason to go. No matter how great a christian/Catholic they might become, they will have these moments of dry faith to no faith. Moments when they just. don't. get. it.

 

And such are the moments when they are able to grow. It's easy to believe when it's easy to believe. It's harder to have faith when the heart doesn't want to do it. Mother Teresa had those moments. I think it says something truely powerful that even in the depth of her heartache and uncertainy - she did what she was called to do.

 

If you believe that the Catholic Church has the fullness of the Truth and was founded and is guided by Christ - how can you NOT make them go?

 

They are young. It is hard. That is why they need guidance and direction from you. And habits can really shape a person for years to come. The habit of attending mass is important.

 

My dh is agnostic, on a good day, but he goes to Church with us. (no eucharist obviously, but he can still attend and there is benefit to that)

 

Can you have an honest talk with dh about this?

 

Can he view mass attendance as a family event, even if he can't view it as a religious event?

 

Can he understand that it is important to you that the dc attend and support you in that?

 

Have you spoken to the children about dad not attending? Hard to do without comming across as bashing dad, I know, but when my boys hit about 11, it was neccessary to explain that dad isn't catholic and that we pray for him. We have had some very serious discussions. It has made dh very uncomfortable too. He really doesn't want to grow in faith so asking him why he thinks what he does is ... frustrating.;)

 

When dc don't believe, it is important to know that is NOT a sign of failure of faith. It is a sign that they are desperate to GROW in faith. Feed them the truths the Church teaches. Let them know there is great graces to be received by attending, even without eucharist, even if they can't fully accept all the teachings. buy some balt. Cat books (they are so cheap there's no reason for anyone to not own them!) and start learning it together. discuss it!

 

I don't know what I would do if dh didn't back me on this.

 

It would be very very unpleasant around here.

 

Maybe that's why he backs me.:tongue_smilie:

 

But for ME, this is not a topic open for discussion.

 

I'll change parishes. I'll go at a time they prefer. We'll wear jeans and sandals. I don't care about any of that stuff enough to argue over it.

 

But going to mass unless someone is puking sick. (heaven knows with a house of 11 that happens enough!) is an absolute for me.

 

Anyhow. That's my stance as fast as I can type it before running up stairs. You have my sympathy and prayers. I know this is hard and hurts. :grouphug:

[momtoboys]

I did not read all the posts. We are both Christian, and while our boys live in our house, they will attend church. Right now, they love church. There are great kids programs, etc. They love seeing their friends. I hope it stays that way, because the church has a wonderful youth program as well!

 

Nope, I can't do God's work in their hearts and MAKE them be Christians, but I can surely influence them in that direction. The primary way is at home, but we believe that God commands us to worship with fellow Christians, so as long as our sons our living with us, one of the ground rules is that they attend church. If they're still living with us and they're over 18, and they prefer another Christian church, they don't *have* to go to our church.

[Murphy101]

I was not religious when we married and I did not become Catholic until 2 years ago, so this doesn't have anything to do with when we dated. *I* changed the rules, so to speak. I am not upset at my dh about this or anything, please don't get the wrong idea.

 

Went back to read a bit, didn't get far..

but wanted to say...

 

this is me as well.

 

and there's plenty of people that marry a devoted christian whose faith dies too.

 

who we marry and who we are when we marry does not stay that way for very many people.

 

life changes us all.

marriage is the commitment to love. period. There is not a "but" or "unless" clause. well not in mine anyways.:)

 

doesn't mean I don't love my dh just as dearly, if not more dearly, than before I converted.

 

:grouphug:

[LauraGB]

Just because they make a decision now does not mean they will always stick with that decision. The world is overflowing with people who were raised in religious homes who have left the religion and people who were raised in non-religious homes who embraced a religion when older (I am one of the latter). Religion is so intensely personal, and I honestly believe that what a person chooses to believe has very little to do with whether they went to religious services as a child.

 

ETA: I just got to the post about your son being afraid to confess and your other son wasting his time in the religious ed classes. Frankly, if this continues your sons will possibly develop a lifelong aversion to church.

 

Tara

 

This. Exactly this. Especially the bolded part - that exactly.

 

Expose your children, explain things. The church, the symbolism, the traditions - those things are all man-made. Faith and religion are choices each individual must feel, not something that can be forced. Making them go without a complete understanding that it could be something bigger than one more thing they have to do because Mom says so (not saying this is what you are doing, but likely how kids see these things) could be detrimental to them finding what you'd like them to.

 

If it matters, I was raised Catholic. Went to Catholic schools, church 3x each week, completed all the sacraments, etc. I am no longer Catholic and I'm absolutely positive that it had everything to do with being forced to believe. Also, I'm embarrassed to say it, but I didn't know everyone wasn't Catholic until I was about 15 - I was never told, never exposed to other religions, and never given the opportunity to make the decision for myself.

[FriedClams]

I would have them attend. Period. Until they are old enough to support themselves they live with the rules of the house.

 

That being said...

 

I would evaluate a few things (and we routinely do this, so please do not feel this is an attack, it's just normal routine here)...

 

1. What am I as a mom doing to make mass/service more enjoyable? Am I including the kids? Am I making it special for them? Am I making it something they connect with? Do we discuss the service later or do we dump and run? I would recommend the book "Parenting from the Pew" for ways to better include kids in the church service itself. Making kids attend, handing them a boring coloring page and expecting them to learn to worship is ridiculous in my opinion. Mass is something they can connect with, even at young ages.

 

2. What media/screen influences are the having over the weekend. If it's a lot - that may make the prospect of listening and paying attention a whole lot less inviting. I might tighten that up so there is less of a transition.

 

3. Are you making the mornings easier on yourself or harder? I would set out breakfast the night before, have all clothes ready to go, shoes located, etc. Avoid the rush.

 

4. How clearly are you communicating your expectations and consequences to your kids? We brief everything before we do it, and I lay out what I expect and what will happen if those expectations are not met. I think kids behave better when they know exactly where the line is - and what will happen if they pass it.

 

5. For RICA, it sounds like some of that will be resolved with the teacher's intervention. I would still require them to attend and to do so with respect and a positive attitude.

 

I believe, like other posters, that God will hold us accountable to how we raise our kids in the faith. I take it very seriously and it sounds like despite feeling beaten up - you do as well. I do believe that rigidity and harshness can turn people and kids away from religion. But I know for certain that religion can be fun, interesting, growing and wonderful. Kids do NOT need to be entertained during mass to enjoy it and learn from it. They don't need to be beaten or cajoled. They don't need splash or multi media - they need someone to guide them, take them alongside, talk with them, train them, and enjoy the process with them. I believe it's a parent's job and our most important one. I pray that you can find joy in the journey - it's there and it's worth it.

[CatMomof3]

So, the update:

 

God must have read this thread this morning!:lol:

 

We went to Mass. For the most part, everyone behaved.:D This is Holy Family Sunday, and during the homily the priest repeated several times, "Children obey your parents!":lol: I kept nudging them and winking at them and they (jokingly) rolled their eyes.

 

Then, everywhere I turned someone was complimenting me on how well-behaved they are. Two different fathers commended me. Several elderly ladies stopped and talked to us. (We are a spectacle as we are the largest family in this parish and there are 2000 families!)

 

I also talked to the two boys about why RCIC is boring. It really boils down to one boy who is very, very difficult. The teachers spend so much time redirecting him, getting him off the floor, quieting him, etc. that they don't get to do the "fun stuff" anymore (skits, projects, etc.) I am going to talk to the priest and talk to the teachers of this class and see if something can't work a little better.

 

I do teach them their true religious ed at home. RCIC is mostly for "box checking" and the rites.

 

Thanks for all the input - I think I have a handle on this now.

:lol: - YEAH

I read most of the posts and I thought I would be my 2 cents in (for what it is worth)

I think it is very important for children to go to Mass every week with their parents. My dd and ds go with me (my dh is Christian, but does not go to church). So he stays home with the youngest, he will go Mass on Christmas and during Holy Week, though.

I also suggest PRAY (and let your kids see you pray). Pope John Paul II was asked what during his childhood does he remember that helped him get closer to God, he said seeing his Father on his knees praying EVERYDAY. Ask their patron saints to pray for them. If they don't have one, have them pick one out. Let them learn about the saints.

Also do your kids know why we STAND, SIT, and KNEEL during Mass. There are a couple of videos on You Tube that can help explain why we do what we do.

I also agree with a pp about explaining the readings the night before Mass, it could help.

Oh, last thing - get to church a couple of minutes early and kneel in front of the Tabernacle and humbly pray before our Lord.

[zaichiki]

I do care if they don't believe, but I think that is all the more reason to go. No matter how great a christian/Catholic they might become, they will have these moments of dry faith to no faith. Moments when they just. don't. get. it.

 

And such are the moments when they are able to grow. It's easy to believe when it's easy to believe. It's harder to have faith when the heart doesn't want to do it. Mother Teresa had those moments. I think it says something truely powerful that even in the depth of her heartache and uncertainy - she did what she was called to do.

 

If you believe that the Catholic Church has the fullness of the Truth and was founded and is guided by Christ - how can you NOT make them go?

 

They are young. It is hard. That is why they need guidance and direction from you. And habits can really shape a person for years to come. The habit of attending mass is important.

 

These are really good points.

 

FWIW My dh doesn't believe in God either -- he was raised as an atheist of Jewish heritage in communist Russia -- but he does back me up when it comes to the kids' religious education. He knows it's important to me that the kids are raised Catholic and attend Mass with me. He will join us at Mass once or twice a year, but he generally does not go. The kids understand that it is because he does not believe. Now that ds is 10 and firmly in the logic stage, we've had some pretty interesting discussions around here. My dc *do* believe and consider themselves Catholic Christians. I am trying to instill a love of God in them while keeping respect for their father's right to *not* believe. It's not easy.

 

But you're not alone.

[ereks mom]

...and to our kids it was just what we did (and still do) on Sundays. There was a time when ER was about 7 or 8 that he complained about having to go every Sunday; his issue was that he didn't want to dress up. He enjoyed it once he got there, but like most little boys, he didn't like getting dressed up. At the time, we attended a rather formal church, and he wore a suit and tie (just like dad) every Sunday. EK, on the other hand, loved wearing her frilly Sunday dresses; she was about 3 or 4 at the time.

[zaichiki]

Oh, Renee, I forgot to mention --

 

Remember St. Monica! (St. Augustine's mother) http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10482a.htm

 

Prayer is powerful: don't give up.

[AnitaMcC]

If it matters, I was raised Catholic. Went to Catholic schools, church 3x each week, completed all the sacraments, etc. I am no longer Catholic and I'm absolutely positive that it had everything to do with being forced to believe. Also, I'm embarrassed to say it, but I didn't know everyone wasn't Catholic until I was about 15 - I was never told, never exposed to other religions, and never given the opportunity to make the decision for myself.

 

 

My kids know there are several religions in the world and some of our friends are non-christians. We plan to study World Religions with our teens next year along with World Geography. They will still attend Catholic confirmation classes as part of what we do in our family. But they won't be required to join the Church. 14 yr old Ds currently does not believe in God. I am not surprised about it as he is very concrete and scientificly logic minded as part of the Asperger Syndrome as well as his personality. But he still will be raised Catholic and learn about Catholicism (and other religions). Dh and I feel that faith is something that each individual has to find... cannot be forced.