Renthead Mommy Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Okay, long story short, our friend adopted a 7yo seven years ago. He's now 14. He has issues. LOTS of issues. We were basically just about the LAST hold outs of his friends. Most friends and many family have basically given up because of the kid. What he does, how he acts and how he treats his dad. They keep in contact with the dad, but it seems many are waiting for the kid to graduate and move out before resuming a IRL relationship with the dad. They have always come to visit us at each of our duty stations (except overseas, and they were coming, but we left early). We were always very close. We were all family. Due to his destructive nature, he doesn't always get anything for Christmas from his dad. What would have been his present money often goes to replace/repair damaged things. I don't think he gets much from others anymore either. They know he'll damage it, won't appreicate it and just plain doesn't deserve it. On our last visit, he stole my ipod. We knew it was him, and it could have only of been him. It was in my car in their garage. He was given an opportunity to 'find' my 'lost/misplaced' ipod. He didn't take it. It was eventually found and returned. His father let him know in no uncertain terms he burned his last bridge of people willing to do anything with him. This was just one more thing in a long list of things. He has recently gone through the updated 'Scared Straight' program and has been doing pretty well the last few weeks since then. So here is the question. Do we send him anything for christmas? We always have. Over the years it has gotten smaller/less$ because of his lack of appreciation and care of things. But he really did cross a line with stealing my ipod. His father will be getting a gift. If he gets anything this year it will be something small like a BN gift card (for $5 or maybe $10) or some candy or something. Orginally I was either going to do nothing, or send a card for him along with his father's gift saying basically we hope he has a good christmas and keeps working on getting himself together. He's 14. He's old enough to understand that Dad got a gift and I didn't because I screwed up big time. Actions have consequences. But still, it's christmas. On one hand, he so doesn't deserve anything. And I don't know if he's getting anything this year or not (last year he got a futon to replace his old bed he destroyed). So would you send him anything or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 It's Christmas. The giving and or withholding of gifts at CHristmas shouldn't have anything to do with a kid's behavior. We give because we love. It's more about us than them, kwim? I don't believe Christmas gifts are the time or place to discipline a kid. And yes, my older son has given us some instances in our lives where we actually had discussions about the giving of Christmas gifts or not. Do what your heart tells you to do...but if you give, give freely, without expectations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim in TN Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 :iagree: Good post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tina Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Ditto to what she said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 He's 14. He's old enough to understand that Dad got a gift and I didn't because I screwed up big time. Actions have consequences. You're right about consequences. Since you mentioned that he's adopted I wondered if his issues/behaviors might be related to something like fetal alcohol syndrome. Maybe he's paying the price for his birth mother's actions? If for no other reason I'd send a gift to the boy for the sake of his dad. Losing all your friends after adopting a child must be very hard for him especially during the holidays. Maybe an edible gift that he and his dad could share? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renthead Mommy Posted December 4, 2009 Author Share Posted December 4, 2009 If for no other reason I'd send a gift to the boy for the sake of his dad. Losing all your friends after adopting a child must be very hard for him especially during the holidays. Maybe an edible gift that he and his dad could share? Oh no his dad get's something no matter what. We are VERY good friends with the dad still. His dad doesn't think he deserves anything from us and certainly doesn't expect us to send anything to the boy. Especially after the ipod as well as things that happened when they were visiting here. I guess I sort of feel like if we get him something it's because I feel like we have to, because we are sending something to his dad. Sort of like when you have a best friend, who also has a sister you are friends with, but not best friends with. You plan on getting the best friend a gift. You find out the day you are planning on seeing the best friend and bringing her gift, the sister, who are are friends with, but on a much lower level is also goign to be be there. And you feel like you need to bring something for her too, because you are also friends with her (but not best friends) and becausae she is goign to be there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravin Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 I would get him something, even if I thought it wouldn't last a day. Not something pricey, but something I nonetheless knew he would enjoy. Even troubled kids are kids, especially this time of year. Maybe something edible, or a T-shirt...something simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myfunnybunch Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 If for no other reason I'd send a gift to the boy for the sake of his dad. Losing all your friends after adopting a child must be very hard for him especially during the holidays. Maybe an edible gift that he and his dad could share? I read this to mean that it would mean a lot to his dad for the son to be remembered in spite of all of his challenges. Something edible would likely be appreciated and would not be destroyed. :) I agree with Happy, that Christmas is a time for giving because we love. In this case, the love is for the boy's father, and remembering the boy will mean more to him than any tangible gift you can give. I can completely understand where you're coming from, having been in similar shoes. I have never regretted choosing kindness. Even when I wasn't feeling especially kind. :grouphug: Cat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tree House Academy Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 It's Christmas. The giving and or withholding of gifts at CHristmas shouldn't have anything to do with a kid's behavior. We give because we love. It's more about us than them, kwim? I don't believe Christmas gifts are the time or place to discipline a kid. And yes, my older son has given us some instances in our lives where we actually had discussions about the giving of Christmas gifts or not. Do what your heart tells you to do...but if you give, give freely, without expectations. I agree 100% I was thinking this the whole time I was reading your post. Regardless of his issues or his behavior, can you imagine not getting a gift for Christmas and it being, essentially, because you are so bad? That breaks my heart. I have a very difficult son (he doesn't steal though!) and I have never withheld Christmas or Birthday gifts from him because of behavior. I really can't even imagine how hurtful that would be for him. :( I can't imagine it "teaching him a lesson" but I can definitely seeing it hurting his feelings and self esteem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starr Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 I would give a gift. We have friends whose dd took many things from us so I know how difficult it is. But it's Christmas. We all need some undeserved love. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelanieM Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Not getting gifts probably does teach a child a lesson... but it's not any lesson I'd ever want to be responsible for teaching. I agree with Cat -- I have never regretted choosing kindness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotherMayI Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Just a thought-he has scared off everyone else in his life...could he have been testing you to see if you too would abandon him if he hurt you? Although I would be sure that he didn't get the opportunity to steal from me again in the future, I would want him to know that I still cared for him. I'd send the gift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unicorn. Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 It's Christmas. The giving and or withholding of gifts at CHristmas shouldn't have anything to do with a kid's behavior. We give because we love. It's more about us than them, kwim? I don't believe Christmas gifts are the time or place to discipline a kid. Do what your heart tells you to do...but if you give, give freely, without expectations. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samiam Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 It sounds to me this child, and he IS still a child, needs people to show they will love him unconditionally. No, not love his actions or choices, but love HIM! Sounds like other adults have already taught him that his actions make him unworthy of attention and love. His behaviours probably have roots in his birth/young life prior to adoption. I would try to be the better adult, the one that tells him that "I love YOU no matter what you do" and shows him that he is not worthless. Hopefully, if enough people do that in his life, he will be able to grow out of his bad choices. But if not, at least you will know that you did the right thing as the caring adult in the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nd293 Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Have you noticed that whenever you read about children who turned their lives completely around against all odds and expectations, there is always the story of someone who cared for the child when there was no earthly reason that they should have? I'm not saying that will happen here, but it's something I'd keep in mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescrappyhomeschooler Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 My dh's dad and stepmom adopted a boy when he was 9. He was very similar in behavior to the boy you are describing. He was rude, obnoxious, extremely foul-mouthed, and defiant. He would destroy things in the house, including all of his bedroom furniture- I mean destroy as in completely demolish. He was out of control. He got into a fight in a bar when he was 19, and went to jail for six months because he hurt someone pretty badly. He is now 30, has gone to college, graduated from Medical School, and is married. He's far from perfect, but he has been working to get his life together and keep it together. The reason- his family stuck by him through everything, even jail. He finally learned that no matter what he did, they weren't going away, and they weren't going to give up on him. He has apologized to everyone and thanked them profusely for standing by him. Therefore, I vote to give the kid a present. He may not deserve it, but he may need your faith in him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brightside Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 :iagree: the ultimate love is to love someone who doesn't love themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoyfulMama Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Therefore, I vote to give the kid a present. He may not deserve it, but he may need your faith in him. :iagree:My thoughts exactly. Especially since he has been doing better the last couple months, the receipt of a gift showing that you value him - all of him - is priceless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renthead Mommy Posted December 4, 2009 Author Share Posted December 4, 2009 Hmmm. I'll really have to think about this. Truth be told, we don't have any faith in him. Not anymore. We've been hanging on for our friend. We do worry some he'll wake up with a knife in his heart one day (but he's got a deadbolt on his bedroom door, and the meds the kid takes knocks him out so it's not a really realistic fear). But we've lost any real love we tried to build for him over the years. We love his father. We put up with him. For the record, and I should have explained this better, it wasn't "you were bad so no christmas for you!" type a thing. More along the lines of "Well I have to use the christmas budget to pay off the damages, repairs, fines you wracked up." I don't really want to say "you were bad so I'm not sending you anything". I'm just sort of over sending him things. The last couple of years things have been more along the lines of token gifts anyway. I give to people I love and he's gone so far these last few years, we've lost a lot of the love we had for him I guess. The whole situation is just sad. If he were an adult child who just happened to be home at his father's house, I wouldn't worry about his dad opening a great gift and him not. I guess I'll talk to his dad and see what his shrink and counsler are thinking about christmas this year. I do hope he gets his act together. After the day he spent in prision for the Scared Straight program, he knows it's not as 'cool' as he thought it was before he went. So that's a plus at least. He was doing good for teh 3 weeks following that. I don't know how he's been the last 2 weeks, hopefully he's still doing okay. The whole situation is just so sad. I'll talk to you his dad I guess and see what he wants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
springmama Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 I would send him something small with a note that you love him. Kids like that need love. Without it, they never outgrow their difficulties. I was a troubled kid. I never would have stolen from a friend of my parents, but I was pretty bad. My parents weren't there for me but I credit the grace and love of other adults I knew at the time for helping me turn out normal. If no one at all had loved me unconditionally, I hate to think of where I'd be now. Something small, like a t-shirt...or a cd. Heck, even something small from the $ store would be better than nothing. He may not appreciate it now, but if he grows out of these difficulties, you can be sure that he will remember how you stuck with him even when no one else did. I agree that his father may be hurt if you don't give the son a gift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Hmmm. I'll really have to think about this. I guess I'll talk to his dad and see what his shrink and counsler are thinking about christmas this year. . Honestly, I think you're overthinking this already and I wouldn't even bring this up with his dad. Don't you have any other people on your list that you'd rather not buy a gift for but you just do it anyway? If you're sending something to the dad just go ahead and tuck something in for his kid and count your blessings that you're not sleeping with a deadbolt on your door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest janainaz Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Don't do it because it's clearly not in your heart. Gifts are not about deserving or not deserving, they are about love and love is not to be withheld. From what you described, it sounds like he's pretty much a pathetic, low-life kid and why bother? He's a screw-up with no potential. In my opinion, this is EXACTLY the kind of kid that needs to be showered with love - doesn't have to be gifts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammyla Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 :iagree: And suggest a family basket style gift for the two of them as an option. It's Christmas. The giving and or withholding of gifts at CHristmas shouldn't have anything to do with a kid's behavior. We give because we love. It's more about us than them, kwim? I don't believe Christmas gifts are the time or place to discipline a kid. And yes, my older son has given us some instances in our lives where we actually had discussions about the giving of Christmas gifts or not. Do what your heart tells you to do...but if you give, give freely, without expectations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwjx2khsmj Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 I have never regretted choosing kindness. Cat What a beautiful and simple truth. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibraryLover Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 Yes. He's still a kid and it's still Christmas. Being forgotten and continually punished will do nothing to help his neurological/psychological situation. I like the idea of food or maybe a $10 GC in a card for a movie pass. Someting simple that can't be destroyed. I agree 100% I was thinking this the whole time I was reading your post. Regardless of his issues or his behavior, can you imagine not getting a gift for Christmas and it being, essentially, because you are so bad? That breaks my heart. I have a very difficult son (he doesn't steal though!) and I have never withheld Christmas or Birthday gifts from him because of behavior. I really can't even imagine how hurtful that would be for him. :( I can't imagine it "teaching him a lesson" but I can definitely seeing it hurting his feelings and self esteem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex-mex Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 In my opinion, this is EXACTLY the kind of kid that needs to be showered with love - doesn't have to be gifts. My heart is breaking for that poor kid. I have a friend who teaches kids like this (expelled out of school and one step short of the penal system) and I am so inspired by his tireless and dogged determination to help those kids. That child needs someone to mentor and help him. There is hope yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsabelC Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 Whether or not you send a gift depends on what, to you, the purpose of a gift is. If the gift is a reward for good/appropriate behavior/lifestyle, then by all means don't send it if he doesn't deserve it. But if the gift is a token of your friendship and you still wish the best for him (even if being with him is unpleasant), then do send it if you can afford to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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