JFSinIL Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 If I was not already a believer at your level I'd find it proselytizing, skim it and move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aubrey Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 will be interested in your viewpoints and your journey to understanding what you have come to believe. Maybe so--but... Before thinking about whether the paragraph is offensive--esp if it was primarily therapeutic & will never be sent--OP, did it achieve your goal? You said you were feeling the need to be authentic, but the paragraph actually reveals very little. You talk about your journey in vague terms & offer no concrete examples. Sorry to sound like an English teacher. Sometimes I'm afraid we get caught up in what's offensive precisely *because* we're *almost* communicating. There's something we want to share, but we have trouble finding the words. I think if you keep looking--did I mention *concrete details* ;)--you may end up w/ something a) much, much more therapeutic, & b) possibly safe for all readers...possibly even enjoyable. Because...as people, well, we like community & conversation. We like to read about people, what they think, what they're experiencing, etc. We don't even mind too much (most of us) if they disagree w/ our pov a little, as long as it's not too roughly said. Gotta go do dishes! :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marylou Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 If this is the "new you" and how you will be in person, I would be grateful to know, so I could have an escape route planned. I know I'm in a minority, but I consider religious beliefs very, very private. Much more private than someone's will, or s*xual habits, or income. VERY private. That you are so public would make me think that I would not have a good night out with you. And I would be very pleased to know this in advance. I can deal with just about anyone who is forthright. Sneaks drive me nuts. So . . it's okay to have religious beliefs as long as we all keep them "very, very private?" Yet you "would be grateful to know" so that you could stay away from the religious person. Just curious, how does this work. Or are you making a joke and I just didn't get it :001_huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatCyndiGirl Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 I'll be the dissenting voice.:D It sounds preachy to me, and not very respectful of other people's religious journeys, which may have taken them to a different place than yours. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest janainaz Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 I think what you wrote is honest and beautiful and totally non-offensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiCO Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Gotta agree. As a non-religious person reading this, I swear the Charlie Brown adult "wah-wha-wha-whaaa" voice filled my mind, with the occasional "God" or "Jesus" thrown in. I don't mean to offend -- that's just how most religious things come off to me. I just can't relate to it, and stuff like that always sounds preachy to me whether it's intentional or not. I agree with this. (I'm an atheist.) However, it is a Christmas letter, and some of this type of thing is to be expected. I would not be offended, but I might be inclined to avoid you at future gatherings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiguirre Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 LBC, I have to agree with the other atheist and liturgical posters that there are elements in your paragraph that are likely to offend, or at least alert us to the need to have a bean dip comment ready the next time we meet. But, honestly, you haven't sent the letter, you asked for feedback and you took our comments with your chin up. You're an awesome boardie and I hope the reactions here can save you some discomfort IRL where it's more important. Merry Christmas! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsabelC Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 If you have any non Christian friends, you can get an idea of how your words will come across by substituting a few for other words, eg: To those who do not know that Allah is great and Christians are infidels, we hope that the religious systems that people have created and sustained will not get in the way of your ability to receive the gift of this knowledge, which is the only way to help the world. If you wouldn't appreciate receiving the above message, chances are your friends of other religions won't either. Although maybe all your family and friends are more or less on the same page as you, in which case no problem. But I much prefer Crimson Wife's version, which gives more of a focus on where you and your family are at and does not make any comment about the people receiving the letter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 I know I'm in a minority, but I consider religious beliefs very, very private. Much more private than someone's will, or s*xual habits, or income. VERY private. That you are so public would make me think that I would not have a good night out with you. And I would be very pleased to know this in advance. I agree with a person's spirituality being terribly, intensely, intimately private. This belief gets in the way of me ever being what's known today as an evangelistic Christian.:001_huh: OP, I am a Christian who eschews dogma and oppressive religiousosity. But I stilll don't like being *told* that anyone wishes that for me.;) God calls people differently. I'd like to celebrate people's spirituality/life paradigm rather than believe mine is best for everyone. Your letter would offend me if I got it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian (a lady) Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 I don't know that I would be offended by much that someone put into a year end letter, although I might end up thinking less of them for this or that reason (say, for example a letter that were overly political). I doubt that most people would consider themselves caught up in the trappings of religion, even if you held them in that group. Don't most people think that they are sincere in their beliefs. On the other hand, if this is something that you've been in conflict with your family over, then it might be seen as a not subtle jab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rookie Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 your letter would be met by a big :001_rolleyes::001_rolleyes::001_rolleyes: here because it sounds preachy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5kidsforME Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 We live in the age of political correctness........of course it is going to offend someone. :glare: It's your letter send what you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen in NS Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Sometimes I'm afraid we get caught up in what's offensive precisely *because* we're *almost* communicating. There's something we want to share, but we have trouble finding the words. I think if you keep looking--did I mention *concrete details* ;)--you may end up w/ something a) much, much more therapeutic, & b) possibly safe for all readers...possibly even enjoyable. Because...as people, well, we like community & conversation. We like to read about people, what they think, what they're experiencing, etc. We don't even mind too much (most of us) if they disagree w/ our pov a little, as long as it's not too roughly said. Aubrey, you are so smart! :iagree: And Lori, I liked your paragraph. And you *would* like Carol. I met her and she is awesome. We spent several very fun hours together in two different airports and an airplane. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie4b Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 (edited) Here's how I would edit using your words : I'd put in your motivation for sharing, and keep it focused on your journey, so it's sharing. But this way, you've simply shared. People who love you back (but who don't agree) will have been given a gift of a little insight into where you are coming from; people who are intrigued can ask more. e.g. below Of course our lives are so much more than can be summed up in a Christmas letter and because I care so much for each of you, I wanted to be open about where we are in our personal lives. We have been on somewhat of a philosophical journey these past years. We have questioned many of the religious paths we have walked in our lifetime, and through questioning, have grown in our faith and expanded our hope in God and His goodness. We love how our children are able to think for themselves, and have a simple faith . There is so much about “Christianity” as a religion that fails to represent who we are, and what we believe, yet we have great hope in the Good News of Jesus. We have great joy in the message of hope, freedom and redemption for a hurting world.[/color] Edited December 4, 2009 by Laurie4b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 So . . it's okay to have religious beliefs as long as we all keep them "very, very private?" Yet you "would be grateful to know" so that you could stay away from the religious person. Just curious, how does this work. Or are you making a joke and I just didn't get it :001_huh: Not a joke. "Staying away from" and "spending a long weekend with" are not the same thing. And "how it works" is that I am a sunny person who tries to see the "good" in every mud pie. If I got a letter like that, I'd see the "good" side, in that the person had made a strong proclivity clear to me, I'd be sure e.g. not to tell the joke about "bring me my flats, these spikes are killing me". I would not dwell on how I disagreed with her, etc, I'd see the "good" side. I do try to measure my step with those I am walking with, and do not intend to offend, but I prefer honesty, and since I "butter up" people very poorly, caught in a long weekend with such a person I fear I would be silentsilentsilent, and no one would have a good time. And now I will lapse into that silence, for I do not think your reply indicated you would look for the "good" in anything I might say. The product of a mantle of mollusk and sus domestica, and all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamturner Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 I think your paragraph is beautiful and obviously is very heartfelt. I think that you and I would be wonderful Christian sisters to each other, and that we would have a lot in common, if we lived close together. But, it seems like it knocks two groups of people--those who don't believe in Christ, and those who believe in Christ but go to an organized church. That is just about everyone I know, including me. I belong to a Lutheran church. It is conservative, liturgical, hidebound, and full of customs. It is also full of life and love, and rich with God's Spirit. I believe that God calls us to be in community in Christ, and that that can take different forms. I appreciate and love our very well educated clergy. I believe that the Church that marches through the centuries, with flags flying and banners waving, is well represented by our church body with its links to history but also its living faith. I agree with Chris and Carol. I am also Presbyterian and like Carol I would feel you are knocking my church or any church. I really like Crimson's suggested revision. It doesn't sound preachy and hopefully will serve to simply explain your spiritual journey rather than preach to those that might not agree w/Christianity. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 I agree that it would seem sweeter if it were edited. You say that your children are not burdened by religious trappings or cliches -- all three of these in one sentence -- and all of these terms are quite judgmental. I think perhaps if you want to talk about it, you could invite your readers to further, more personal dialogue. There's nothing wrong with your desire to talk about religion, but it should be a two-way street. Otherwise it's a sermon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milovany Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 (edited) Non-christians can get very tired of the constant exhortations to find Christ. As my dh says, "What? Is he lost again?" Tara :smilielol5:You made my dh and I both laugh out loud (and we're Christians)! That was funny. To the OP, I have sent out letters with that sort of paragraph in it and I felt preachy sending it (looking back), and I imagine I made friends/family feel preached at. In fact I had an uncle tell me he didn't want to get religious letters anymore. Anyway, just a thought. I appreciate your sentiment and wanting to be real with people you love! Edited December 6, 2009 by milovaný Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karen_OK Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 I think that's a great ending to your Christmas letter. Some people may be offended, but don't let that keep you from expressing your thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhudson Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Originally Posted by Laurie ...Where does this need to show our real/authentic selves come from anyway? ... Oprah. Okay, I know this is totally off the OP's point but I find this hysterical.:lol: Thanks for making me giggle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cindyg Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Of course our lives are so much more than can be summed up in a Christmas letter. We have been on somewhat of a philosophical journey these past years. We have great hope in the Good News of Jesus. We have great joy in knowing that it is by grace we have been saved, through faith—and this not from ourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. (Ephesians 2:8) Our greatest hope is that you will know the grace and peace that Jesus offers so freely, along with His message of hope, freedom and redemption for a hurting world. Lori I would leave in what I left in above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovemyboys Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 The "religious trapping and cliche" part bothers me. I'm a Bible-believing Christian who happens to belong to a more traditional, liturgical denomination, and I get some flack from my non-liturgical friends. While I certainly believe our faith can be stripped down to about 3 central truths (give or take lol!), I really don't want to be told that there's only one way to worship my Lord and Saviour. I also don't like how you implied that church tells you how to think--that only thru breaking away can you and your kids find freedom. So, yep, I think you are wise to leave that part out. I do think, tho, that you are also very wise to continue exploring your faith, and to celebrate the truths you have found! FWIW, I like to read Christmas letters... Well put, Chris. The other part that I noticed was that directed toward those who know Jesus -- you're still telling them to get beyond the traditions of their belief. Gently asking, how can you know what helps them to practice their faith, what sees them through dark times? Maybe those traditions that aren't important to you are essential to them. If I were you, I think I'd prayerfully consider the responses that you've received here (since you asked ;) ) especially those from fellow Christians. It sounds like you want to share your journey and be encouraging. It would be a shame for your words to injure those you love and care about, and possibly close their minds to your real message -- the joy of Christ. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheryl Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 I was writing our annual Christmas letter, and giving the typical family updates, being very careful not to create a brag list of accomplishments.:tongue_smilie: As I came to the end of the letter, I felt a need to be authentic about where we're at in our personal lives. Because I care about each person who will receive this letter, I really don't want my attempt at being authentic to be misinterpreted as an attempt to change people's thinking. I'd appreciate hearing from the diverse group represented on this board before I print and send this letter. Here's the paragraph in question: Of course our lives are so much more than can be summed up in a Christmas letter. We have been on somewhat of a philosophical journey these past years. We have questioned many of the religious paths we have walked in our lifetime, and through questioning, have grown in our faith and expanded our hope in God and His goodness. We love how our children are able to think for themselves, and have a simple faith that is not burdened by religious trappings and clichés. There is so much about “Christianity†as a religion that fails to represent who we are, and what we believe, yet we have great hope in the Good News of Jesus. We have great joy in knowing that it is by grace we have been saved, through faith—and this not from ourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. (Ephesians 2:8) Our greatest hope is that you will know the grace and peace that Jesus offers so freely. To those who have known Jesus for many years, we hope that you are able to see beyond the traditions of our faith, and experience the freedom that is in Christ. To those who do not know Jesus personally, we hope that the religious systems that people have created and sustained will not get in the way of your ability to receive the gift of a perfect and loving Creator, who comes with a message of hope, freedom and redemption for a hurting world. Lori Lori, Love this! Excellent. Now that's one "believer" talking to another. You know that is the commission to spread the Good News/Gospel. So, I believe the Holy Spirit is convicting you to send this letter and you would want to do so. Perhaps just "pare it down" in length (not content). But Lori that would be hard to do because it really is good. Pray about it and God will direct your steps. I would not be relying on man's opinions on this. Sheryl <>< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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