WWYD about a troublesome pet?

[Blueridge]

Hi. We own a dog (our kitty is perfect :D) that has given us no end of trouble, and I am not sure how to proceed. Background...Last October, this sad tale (bad pun) began. We had been looking for an indoor dog for over a year when a friend called and said she had found us a 6 wk old puppy. Our dd was overjoyed, since it would be her pet. And so, silly me, took her sight unseen. A real ugly mix, but we stayed positive. I stood in the cold wind and snow to house train her and keep her exercised. Dd would toss her toys and she would eat them! We had her spayed. She grew and grew into a very large dog. Too large for our tiny house. Now she sleeps on the front porch and barks all night at the wind. All attempts to train her have failed. She ruins flower beds and kills birdies. She comes when we call only if she isn't doing anything more interesting at the time. Despite the fact that we have 5 acres, she wanders everywhere, which is unsafe in the woods and adjoining neighbor's places. She is a carnivorous beast who has dragged many a dead animal onto our porch and cracked bones with zest. She gets into fights with neighbor dogs. She has recently become very aggressive and territorial and barks and snaps and jumps and scares our infrequent visitors. Our dd has cried many a tear over the dog's behavior, as she has come inside daily covered with mud and scratches. Our friends don't want her. The no-kill animal shelter has no place for her. We can't advertise her because we can't trust her with strangers. But it breaks my heart because she is fiercely loyal. We must do something before she bites someone (it almost happened again today with the neighbor who she knows when he came to our yard). We have certainly failed as dog owners. WWYD?

Edited November 3, 2009 by Blueridge

[calandalsmom]

Have you done any classes at all? Do you walk her?

[kalanamak]

Too large for our tiny house. Now she sleeps on the front porch and barks all night at the wind. All attempts to train her have failed. She ruins flower beds and kills birdies. She comes when we call only if she isn't doing anything more interesting at the time. Despite the fact that we have 5 acres, she wanders everywhere, which is unsafe in the woods and adjoining neighbor's places.

 

We must do something before she bites someone (it almost happened again today with the neighbor who she knows when he came to our yard). We have certainly failed as dog owners. WWYD?

 

Say, do you have my husband as a pet?:D

 

Really, if you are worried about biting, I would put her down and I'm an animal lover.

[vettechmomof2]

First, if you are willing to try and keep her then I would do a few things.

 

1) dog training classes. Your family and her as well need to learn how to communicate with each other and dog training will help you all learn how to do that.

 

2) Just because your property ends at 5 acres does not mean it does in her eyes. She is not a human. Fences help with that, leashes help with that, some tie outs help. But especially with some breeds, what a dog sees they own.

 

3) if you cannot trust her around guests then she needs to be seperated at those times. A crate or a seperate, safe,secure room would be fine but do not put her into a position of failure. If you know she might jump on a person and you have not trained her not to yet and are not able to work on it yet then seperate her from that failure. Less confusion for her and pain for you.

 

Really she does not sound like an abnormal dog at all but one who has not been shown what you wanted form her enough. Limits need to be set and followed.

 

I own Anatolian Shepherd Dogs. These are xl dogs. Before the flood we lived in a very small house and still had 2 of them, now we are in a bigger house/more acreage but we exercise them daily anyway. We have a fence and they are not allowed off lead ever as they would wander(in the breed) and defend what they see as their property.Our youngest I take to CGC training classes just for refresher classes a few times a year. My daughter does dog 4-H with her as well. My older one goes to nursing homes with me and dog 4-H occassionally as well. Size doe snot mean you need to have an unruly dog.

 

Owning a pet can absolutely be very tiring because they can end up behaving like a toddler with no nap! Limits need to be set and it is not too late but it will take time, consistency and hard work on everyones part.

 

Keep trying.

[gingersmom]

I think you need the dog whisperer.

 

I would look and see if there is a trainer/behaviorist who could come and work with you and your dog.

 

I think the blame is probably 50% human and 50% dog.

[hornblower]

I would have her assessed by a reputable behaviourist (not just any old trainer). Dogs which are kept outside, on porches etc often become fiercely territorial. It is impossible to say whether this is personality or simply situational. This dog in different circumstances may be completely different. Just because a dog would bite (or threaten to bite) an intruder in a yard does not make it a bad dog - for centuries this is precisely what we have wanted from this species of animal. It's possible the dog is "performing as designed".

 

The next would depend on what the behaviourist says. This is still a young dog, the personality is still developing.

 

A rigorous training program, at least 2 walks/day on leash + offleash play. Clicker training, leadership training.

 

You'd have to give up on having her outside IMO as the guarding bhvr which is causing a problem will continue. I honestly cannot envision a dog too big for indoors......I live in a small house. I've had more than 200lbs total of dog here. Just one of my fosters was well over 100 lbs. Well exercised & well trained (& the new fosters are not well trained when they arrive!) they fit in just fine.

 

To find a behaviorist:

http://iaabc.org/

 

To find a trainer:

http://www.ccpdt.org/

 

Also, contact local rescues in your area & see if they have recommendations for trainers.

 

In the meantime, read through Ian Dunbar's site:

http://www.dogstardaily.com/

You'll find lots of tips and articles to help you & get you started.

 

This will take time & commitment from you. You will be demonstrating to your child that pets are not disposable, & that if you make a mistake you don't walk away.

 

IF it turns out that this animal is beyond help & has aggression issues which make her dangerous, then do the responsible thing: give her a last day of fun, go to the drive through & get her a burger AND an ice cream cone & take her yourself to the vet and hold her and whisper in her ear & stroke her while she is put to sleep. Let her last moments on this earth be with people she loves and trusts to do the right thing.

 

best wishes -

[Ellie]

I think you need the dog whisperer.

 

I would look and see if there is a trainer/behaviorist who could come and work with you and your dog.

 

I think the blame is probably 50% human and 50% dog.

:iagree:

 

Here's the link to Cesar Millan's site. Maybe you can find some help there. Maybe your doggie could even be one of Cesar's cases.:-)

[SonshineLearner]

Hi There,

Our dog trainer felt like most dogs are able to be rescued..... Here's the thing... They need to be with the pack. If he were perfectly trained, could he be inside? Is he "house trained" as far as "peeing" and such inside? Give him a wash and put the frontline on. Then, get a crate. Put him in with your daughter or whoever can have the crate in their room. (A wire crate is best). You just get them use to the crate..... You put them in ... We say "kennel" and in he goes.

Even if you have him spend some of the time out... just the time that he spends sleeping with you, will make him a better dog.

Then... the whole training thing... Hornblower has lots of positive training options for you. I went to training that used a prong collar. I can tell you... that I really don't have to do anything other than just put it on.. and I can walk my dog. I trained him to heel and such... and even with a normal collar... I can now walk him much easier. I also did "recall" training with him and off leash... I can almost trust him.

As far as the whole goes too far thing... I've seen that the invisible fence works sometimes to keep them in... although... as you'll see if you search.... it doesn't keep animals out of your yard... but that doesn't seem like it's a problem. I'd do an invisible fence.... much closer than the edge of your 5 acres. From what I've seen... it's actually really inexpensive, if you run the wire yourself.

For training... whatever you do, make sure the trainer looks like they like your dog... I went to a married couple that she's a vet tech... he trained dogs for the Police Dept... and they've done Schutzhund training... they were just great! They really liked dogs and when you left, you had the ability to have very dependable trained dogs. (It sounds like most of your problems are because he isn't trained)

(Make sure you don't do the PetSmart... or that kind of training)

Ours was great $85 for the 8 sessions... 20 for the German Prong Collar.... and for the life of the dog, I can go back to training free.

My dog is 65 lbs and I can tell you that if we hadn't trained him... I could never have kept him.

(Now, if I could train him to stay away from the our food.... he's pretty tall:-)

I can also tell you, that if I had been to training while young, I wouldn't have had the problems with my childhood dogs... who would have known!! When I was young, no one I knew went to training.... (Poor dogs...)

Good Luck!

Carrie

[st_claire]

I would suggest you try and find her a better home. You got a puppy without thinking it through at all really. A dog is a pack animal. They should sleep indoors with their pack, not outside on a porch. Too small for your house? I've seen great danes in one room apartments. Not a problem so long as the owner takes the dog outside to let it use up its energy. Seriously, how can you claim to not have room in your house for a dog to sleep?

 

Have you done any training at all? How can the dog come when called if it doesn't know what calling means? And of course it would be aggresive, it is alone, fending for itself without a pack. It wants to protect what little it has.

 

I want to cry for the poor dog. Either make a radical change in your comittment to this animal, or give it to someone who will love it as it deserves. And please please, think twice before deciding to take care of another living creature in the future.

 

 

P.S. Yes this may be harsh, but I really have a low tolerance for animal neglect.

[Stacia]

Agreeing with st claire...

[homeschoolin'mygirls]

**IF it turns out that this animal is beyond help & has aggression issues which make her dangerous, then do the responsible thing: give her a last day of fun, go to the drive through & get her a burger AND an ice cream cone & take her yourself to the vet and hold her and whisper in her ear & stroke her while she is put to sleep. Let her last moments on this earth be with people she loves and trusts to do the right thing. **

 

 

I got teary reading this.

[Caitilin]

**IF it turns out that this animal is beyond help & has aggression issues which make her dangerous' date=' then do the responsible thing: give her a last day of fun, go to the drive through & get her a burger AND an ice cream cone & take her yourself to the vet and hold her and whisper in her ear & stroke her while she is put to sleep. Let her last moments on this earth be with people she loves and trusts to do the right thing. [/i']**

 

 

I got teary reading this.

 

me too. twice.

[StephanieZ]

This is a sad situation that plays out very often.

 

At this point, your choices are:

 

1) get a good trainer or behaviorist (ask your vet for a recommendation) to work with you (and whatever other adults will help care for her) one on one for 2 sessions to assess the issues and get a plan in place.

 

Most likely, if you have a good trainer or behaviorist on board, you will be able to train the dog into a lovely pet with some good work with the trainer/behaviorist one on one and then in classes. Classes are less expensive but you must do some remidial work to get ready for that. A couple sessions (spaced a couple weeks apart) will likely be enough to get basic control -- enough so that a training class and/or your own training exercises will be FUN.

 

If you are going this route, I urge you to purchase a Gentle Leader head halter (in the package that comes with an instructional DVD) and watch the DVD and apply the principles and begin using the gentle leader at all times to help you and your dd gain very effective control w/o force and

w/o pain. Also, buy a book or two on "positive dog training" (rewards/treat based training). Read a bunch. Make it a research project.

 

Choose a trainer that uses/likes gentle leaders (or comparable halters such as the Halti), not one that uses pinch collars, choke collars, prong collars, etc. If you need their help acclimating the dog to the Gentle Leader, so be it, but if you can start with it on your own, you'll save some time/$ with the trainer and have a jumpstart on training. At the least, buy and have the Gentle Leader ready to use for the first session with the trainer/behaviorist.

 

2) Find a rescue group to rehabilitate her. Call all the shelters and vets in your region and ask for suggestions and search online, especially for any breed specific groups, as they often have more resources (even if she is a "mix" but has some likeness to a breed. . . . It's a long shot.

 

3) Have your vet put her down. Your vet may not be willing to do this (as there are ethical issues about euthanizing a viable pet), and you might need to sign her over to animal control instead who will put her down (but this is a last resort IMHO because it will be much more traumatic for her).

 

Realistically, you've allowed this adorable puppy to grow into an out of hand dog. Since there has not yet been a bite, it is not at all too late to salvage, but much more work will be required than if you were still dealing with a puppy because you have a larger dog to handle and bad habits to undo. You *can* fix this situation, rehab your dog, have a great pet, and make yourself and your dc proud of your family for doing the right thing. It's just a matter of whether it is important enough to you to make that commitment. Your choice.

[Denisemomof4]

**IF it turns out that this animal is beyond help & has aggression issues which make her dangerous' date=' then do the responsible thing: give her a last day of fun, go to the drive through & get her a burger AND an ice cream cone & take her yourself to the vet and hold her and whisper in her ear & stroke her while she is put to sleep. Let her last moments on this earth be with people she loves and trusts to do the right thing. [/i']**

 

 

I got teary reading this.

 

I'm sorry, but I completely and respectfully disagree with this. It is wrong to consider putting a dog down that has never really been given a chance yet. It doesn't sound like this dog has been given enough attention and I think you owe it to the dog to do the responsible thing and get it TRAINING. Until then, I think it's irresponsible and could be dangerous if you let it have the freedom to roam. Can you put up an invisible fence?

 

Also, I would not allow your daughter out with the dog until it's been trained.

 

I really hate to speak out if it's going to offend anyone, but far too many times I've seen people just dispose of their "puppy" once it's full grown. I see all the time that people don't train these dogs when they're young and then want to give up. I have 37 animals, 35 of them rescues. I've seen the behaviors that neglect causes, and I've seen the behaviors abuse causes. I do think with time and attention you can help your dog. So what if you have to keep it away from company? We have a dachsund that is the sweetest dog anyone could possibly own WITH OUR FAMILY. When we have guests or unexpected visitors, we NEVER open the door until he's in his cage. Period. He nips at people so we don't set him up for failure.

 

We have animals in the barn that people aren't allowed near EVER. But I love them and they have great lives. The vet says my animals live on a resort. :001_smile: I'm just responsible and keep people away from the animals they need to be kept away from.

 

Please do the responsible thing and try to help fix this dog. It sounds like it's still a young dog. You'll need a GOOD trainer, not a Petco type thing. I've done those before. Also, get your daughter involved in the training. Get the dog to respect her, too.

 

If, in the end, if you've truly done everything you could and are still told the dog is dangerous, at least youv'e tried. But if it's a young dog, and living outside alone, that could make it kind of "wild"

 

I agree that the house likely isn't too small. We had two labs in a 750 foot apartment when we first married. They were the happiest dogs I've ever seen. Sure I had to vacuum at least once a day, but I went into the situation with my eyes wide open.

 

So what if the dog is ugly. ;)

[MeanestMomInMidwest]

I would suggest you try and find her a better home. You got a puppy without thinking it through at all really. A dog is a pack animal. They should sleep indoors with their pack, not outside on a porch. Too small for your house? I've seen great danes in one room apartments. Not a problem so long as the owner takes the dog outside to let it use up its energy. Seriously, how can you claim to not have room in your house for a dog to sleep?

 

Have you done any training at all? How can the dog come when called if it doesn't know what calling means? And of course it would be aggresive, it is alone, fending for itself without a pack. It wants to protect what little it has.

 

I want to cry for the poor dog. Either make a radical change in your comittment to this animal, or give it to someone who will love it as it deserves. And please please, think twice before deciding to take care of another living creature in the future.

 

 

P.S. Yes this may be harsh, but I really have a low tolerance for animal neglect.

:iagree: Perhaps your "sad tale" can serve as a warning to others who may hastily acquire a pet without thinking through the amount of commitment it takes. Then at least it won't have been a total waste.

[justamouse]

I say this will all kindness and love, but a dog is not going to bond with you if you leave it out on the porch. You've told her that she's not part of your pack and no wonder she's wandering off and being aggressive.

 

I have a feeling that no matter what you do, this is not the dog for you. It's too big, too drooly and perhaps not cute enough.

 

Please , if you feel that way about the dog, find someone to take it from you that loves her. She will forever feel your nonacceptance of her.

 

My dogs (a Dobie and a Lab) know when my children are sick before I do, I'm sure she feels your disapproval. Give her to someone who will love her and train her.

[Blueridge]

OK, ladies...for the ones of you who were kind and helpful with your responses, I sincerely thank you. I have already been looking at the sites you shared. For those of you who are taking this opportunity to bash me and frankly be hurtful and snarky, I ask *why*? My op stated 'What would you do'. I was seeking suggestions. I also stated that we had been actively seeking (and researching, for that matter) a dog for over a year. We never took the responsibility lightly, nor did we just fall out of the back of a stupid turnip truck. Our dog is loved, well fed and played with, and I resent being called neglectful. We have had several 'at home' training sessions with a vet's assistant. She (the assistant) was knocked down to the ground during their first 'meeting'. I could share lots of stories and details, but I won't. I was just seeking advice from those with good ideas to share. Let's just close this thread up before it gets any more ridiculous.

[StephanieZ]

We have had several 'at home' training sessions with a vet's assistant. She (the assistant) was knocked down to the ground during their first 'meeting'.

 

This is not the trainer for you! A vet assistant is nowhere near a trainer! (DH & I employ many wonderful vet assistants. . . certified vet techs. . .and two vets! NONE of them are competent dog trainer/behaviorists!! We all defer to our PhD level behaviorist for training/behavior issues beyond the absolute basic of puppy and kitten training easy common issues!)

 

Search out a "behaviorist" with a M.S. or PhD (+/- a DVM) and a focus on dog behavior. Ideally a "certified applied animal behaviorist. There aren't many but they do exist in most major metropolitan areas.

 

http://www.animalbehavior.org/ABSAppliedBehavior/caab-directory

 

Good luck.

[Danestress]

If you were willing to pay the one vet tech to come out, maybe you could pay someone else who might do better with this dog. According to my trainer, pretty much anyone can call themselves a dog trainer, so you have to make sure that the person really has extensive training and experience. I know there are different kinds of certifications, so maybe someone could help you find out where to look, but maybe the vet tech just wasn't the right person?

 

I know I have a dog who I adore but who can be a bit troublesome. When I had our trainer come out, it was definitely about training US as much as the dog. He wanted to see where the dog eats, where his food is stored, what he was eating, when and how, where he slept, what happend when the door was open, who he went to off leash, how he walked on leash, etc. I can't tell you how helpful it has been, but it's been WORK.

 

Are you letting this dog off leash? If she's getting in fights with other dogs and causing problems, I would not let her off the leash for a single instant. Yes, that means a couple of hours a day of walking her, but over time you might be able to train her to be more reliable in different circumstances.

 

I don't think anyone meant to be snarky. But most of us go into dog ownership wanting a dog, loving it, playing with it, and feeding it. That's just not good enough. I say that as someone who has been there and done that. You have to take the time to learn how dogs think and behave and how to get them to behave the way you want. It's hard and takes time and in our case, took having someone come in to evaluate and train with us. This isn't my first dog, either. I've lived with dogs my whole life, but I still need to relearn and train and prepare myself for raising up a dog.

[hornblower]

I'm sorry, but I completely and respectfully disagree with this. It is wrong to consider putting a dog down that has never really been given a chance yet.

 

Denise - I do rescue. Recently I spent 13 months rehabbing a dog & getting it to a point where we could place it in a very special home.

 

I did say IF.

 

The thing is, too many people think that someone else will deal with the problem. That's just not realistic. If the dog ends up being handed over from person to person or ends up in some shelter, eventually odds are it will be put down. You know the stats on this.

In some areas there's a chance a rescue will come out of the woodwork & take on a difficult dog & rehab it & place it in an appropriate home. But the # of animals needing help & the # of people willing to help - well, how realistic is it. It's more likely it will be handed from family to family for a few years, each person starting with some good intentions & finding it's 'too much' dog & dumping it on someone else.

 

And if that's how it's going to end anyway, then I think it's better for families to take responsibility for it.

 

ITA that the original owner should do everything possible to help it. That was 90% of my post. This was just the small end. Because no animal should die bewildered in some stranger's arms - & yet, that's how it happens for millions each year who are dropped off or placed 'free to good home'; folks like to pretend to themselves that the animal is living some wonderful life somewhere. It's not & its last moments were of fear & confusion.

 

To the OP - I hope you find some useful info in this thread. Get someone really knowledgeable to assess your dog. Call some vets & post on CL & get some recommendations. Stephanie gave you some great advice. I hope you find some solution.

 

And I want to encourage you - those of us who own difficult dogs (one of mine is a big *****) readily agree that the difficult ones are the ones which stretch us & make us grow & make us better trainers. I'd go as far as to say they make us better people.

 

best wishes -

[Rebel]

I would suggest you try and find her a better home. You got a puppy without thinking it through at all really. A dog is a pack animal. They should sleep indoors with their pack, not outside on a porch. Too small for your house? I've seen great danes in one room apartments. Not a problem so long as the owner takes the dog outside to let it use up its energy. Seriously, how can you claim to not have room in your house for a dog to sleep?

 

Have you done any training at all? How can the dog come when called if it doesn't know what calling means? And of course it would be aggresive, it is alone, fending for itself without a pack. It wants to protect what little it has.

 

I want to cry for the poor dog. Either make a radical change in your comittment to this animal, or give it to someone who will love it as it deserves. And please please, think twice before deciding to take care of another living creature in the future.

 

 

P.S. Yes this may be harsh, but I really have a low tolerance for animal neglect.

 

I completely agree with everything said here. What would I do in this situation? I would move the dog back inside, hire a trainer (not a vet asst.) to train ME and the dog, and be prepared to spend major time and energy training and showing the dog I love him. If you can't do that, find the poor animal a better home.

[SonshineLearner]

I wasn't saying you are neglectful. I understand you are trying to figure out what to do. That's why I didn't suggest that you have to make it a full time.. inside... dog. The inside the crate thing.. is... dogs will sleep at night... and it's bonding time with them. When we leave, my dog who is an inside dog.... just goes crazy wanting to hop in the van with us. He doesn't know what to do... unless we put him in his crate. There, he calms down and realizes that he's ok. At night... they calm right down, and realize that all is well.. when they're in their crate with you. Then you can let them explore during the day. Of course, their favorite thing would be to follow their Alpha... their whole day.. .lying at your feet... and being petted throughout the day. BUT, this isn't always possible... so just that night bonding.. and perhaps a bit to lie down by the fire...

And, just because I said I had a prong collar, doesn't mean that I didn't use a ton of food treats. No feeding them for a few hours before training. You train them... lots of eye contact.... and feed them lots... BUT, they need the security of a leader....* And lots of doggie massages... my husband and kids are jealous... (Reminds me... train my dog.... I have to really get back to that... it's a constant thing that I have to do.... :-)

Carrie:-)

[Elizabeth Conley]

Oh good grief! There are people on this board who need training more badly than this dog does. Witness the nasty posts in this thread. Go take a time out Mean Girls. Your nastiness is counter productive.

 

Bring the dog in to sleep, probably with your daughter.

 

Get the dog a crate. Sometimes she's going to need a time out, or you will. Crate training gives you both an "out" for situations when you're getting on each others nerves. Think of it as her personal space, not a cage.

 

You do need a fence. I'm sorry about this. It's going to be a bit pricy. You don't have to fence your entire property, just the dog's play area. In the case of your dog, this is going to have to be pretty large.

 

Living more intimately with you is pretty good training. Some people over dramatize the whole "my trainer is a genius and worth throwing crazy amounts of cash at" theme song. You are probably the only trainer your dog will ever need.

 

Read up on dog behavior and training. Apply what makes sense, keep what works.

 

Try to get this animal some play dates with other dogs. The earlier the animal is socialized with others of her kind, the more sane she'll be. Dogs without a canine social life get a bit cuckoo.

 

If this doesn't work, put the dog up for adoption.

[Caribbean Queen]

It is fine to have an outside dog. I don't find it neglectful or sad at all. I honestly find caging animals (crate training) and having animals sleep with people on their beds,and lick people's faces disturbing. I would never ever pay for private dog training classes in my home. My children don't even have private classes in my home. I guess this is just a cultural thing.

 

Anyway, my main beef with the dog would be that is scratches your daughter and makes her cry. If I couldn't train the dog not to do that, the dog would have to go - even if I couldn't find anywhere but a kill shelter.

 

ETA: Well, maybe I would chain it in the yard and take it for a walk every day. I wouldn't like to have to do that, but my children come first. I'd try to train the dog, but that could be my last resort.

 

 

.

Edited November 3, 2009 by Caribbean Queen

[MeanestMomInMidwest]

It is fine to have an outside dog. I don't find it neglectful or sad at all. I honestly find caging animals (crate training) and having animals sleep with people on their beds,and lick people's faces disturbing. I would never ever pay for private dog training classes in my home. My children don't even have private classes in my home. I guess this is just a cultural thing.

 

Anyway, my main beef with the dog would be that is scratches your daughter and makes her cry. If I couldn't train the dog not to do that, the dog would have to go - even if I couldn't find anywhere but a kill shelter.

 

ETA: Well, maybe I would chain it in the yard and take it for a walk every day. I wouldn't like to have to do that, but my children come first. I'd try to train the dog, but that could be my last resort.

 

 

.

I also don't have a problem with outside dogs, but as working dogs, not as pets. I know many happy dogs who spend the majority of their time outside & sleep on the back porch. But first thing in the morning, these dogs go out with Master to work around the ranch. When Master drives somewhere, they jump in the back of the pickup truck. When Master walks somewhere they are at his/her heel. When Master is inside, the dog lays waiting. This never happens spontaneously, but is a result of intense training and bonding as a pup. The working dogs I know seem fulfilled in their job and know their place. Dogs who are left outside to their own devices, then made to sleep apart from the family develop behavior problems, in my experience.

[Elizabeth Conley]

Why you probably need a fence:

 

1. Safety for the dog

 

2. Safety for the neighbors and visitors

 

3. Liability

 

4. Safety for other animals

 

5. An occasional moment's true peace for you, when the dog gets to be too much for you, but it would be unreasonably punitive to crate her

[WishboneDawn]

I agree that the first priority is to get the dog restrained. Even being a country dog it needs to be kept under control. We have a couple of acres in the middle of the country but our dog stays chained if she's outside without us.

 

A fence is expensive but a good alternative is a run. Put a brass ring on a long line and then hang it between two trees or poles (we've used brake line but clothesline would work also). Clip a chain to the ring and the dog to the chain. Voila. She's got a got amount of room to run but is also restrained. Be very careful when unclipping her though. I got a line across the neck once from our dog. Best to go up to the dog, step on the chain so she can't run and whip you with the chain and then unclip.

 

Next, I think those recommending Caesar Milan and more training are right. I know we can feel like we've done everything to fix a situation but I'm coming to the realization that unless a situation is fixed, we've left something undone. :) Your dog is a part of the family and it would be a great message to the kids to do everything in your power to fix the dog rather then get rid of her.

 

I'd take the dog for LOTS of walks (if she's a puller you can get a muzzle-type thing called a Halti that will stop her from pulling on the leash) where she's not allowed to walk in front of you. I might let her in (I'm a softie though) but she's have a clearly defined space (an old blanket on the floor) where she would have to lie.

 

Ultimately though, if the kids' safety is at stake then you know best. Especially considering how much you have on your plate already. If you don't have the time/funds to really get this dog under control then it may be nothing but harmful stress to try and keep her. The dog can probably be a good dog but if she can't be a good dog with your family then it's not going to work.

 

I have a challenging dog myself (also an ugly mix) and I struggle with the consistency she needs to keep her in check but giving her away isn't an option because, frustrating as she is, she hasn't hurt anyone and has never even given a hint of being aggressive. And she also has these great big brown eyes that she can work like no other dog I've seen. :D

 

Good luck! :)

[SonshineLearner]

I

 

Anyway, my main beef with the dog would be that is scratches your daughter and makes her cry. If I couldn't train the dog not to do that, the dog would have to go - even if I couldn't find anywhere but a kill shelter.

.

 

What I think about this... is.... I trained my dog for $100. Do you know how much everything I purchased for him was?? By the time I bought crates for the three places I needed them (our room, downstairs, van) That was $100. Dog food for him?? Lucky at $30-$40 a month (he's 65 lbs) Then leashes....etc. I mean... $100 and a person to train me how to train him.... was invaluable. And, I could probably train another dog, with what I learned. I've also shown two other people, that their dog can be walked with my collar. They were beside themselves with "crazy" dogs. I stuck the collar on... said... "Come on good dog" ... patted them.... Clicked their collar a couple of times.... Praised them... and they were walking at a heel. These were dogs that were pulling their " masters" down the street.

 

Really, I think training was incredible!

 

Carrie

[Tammyla]

:grouphug:I'll send a hug your way.

 

 

Hi. We own a dog (our kitty is perfect :D) that has given us no end of trouble, and I am not sure how to proceed. Background...Last October, this sad tale (bad pun) began. We had been looking for an indoor dog for over a year when a friend called and said she had found us a 6 wk old puppy. Our dd was overjoyed, since it would be her pet. And so, silly me, took her sight unseen. A real ugly mix, but we stayed positive. I stood in the cold wind and snow to house train her and keep her exercised. Dd would toss her toys and she would eat them! We had her spayed. She grew and grew into a very large dog. Too large for our tiny house. Now she sleeps on the front porch and barks all night at the wind. All attempts to train her have failed. She ruins flower beds and kills birdies. She comes when we call only if she isn't doing anything more interesting at the time. Despite the fact that we have 5 acres, she wanders everywhere, which is unsafe in the woods and adjoining neighbor's places. She is a carnivorous beast who has dragged many a dead animal onto our porch and cracked bones with zest. She gets into fights with neighbor dogs. She has recently become very aggressive and territorial and barks and snaps and jumps and scares our infrequent visitors. Our dd has cried many a tear over the dog's behavior, as she has come inside daily covered with mud and scratches. Our friends don't want her. The no-kill animal shelter has no place for her. We can't advertise her because we can't trust her with strangers. But it breaks my heart because she is fiercely loyal. We must do something before she bites someone (it almost happened again today with the neighbor who she knows when he came to our yard). We have certainly failed as dog owners. WWYD?

[Denisemomof4]

OK, ladies...for the ones of you who were kind and helpful with your responses, I sincerely thank you. I have already been looking at the sites you shared. For those of you who are taking this opportunity to bash me and frankly be hurtful and snarky, I ask *why*? My op stated 'What would you do'. I was seeking suggestions. I also stated that we had been actively seeking (and researching, for that matter) a dog for over a year. We never took the responsibility lightly, nor did we just fall out of the back of a stupid turnip truck. Our dog is loved, well fed and played with, and I resent being called neglectful. We have had several 'at home' training sessions with a vet's assistant. She (the assistant) was knocked down to the ground during their first 'meeting'. I could share lots of stories and details, but I won't. I was just seeking advice from those with good ideas to share. Let's just close this thread up before it gets any more ridiculous.

 

I'm truly sorry if my response bothered you in any way. I just went back and reread it and don't find anything offensive, but you may have a different opinion. If I did offend you, I am sorry.

 

I do have a lot of experience with animals so I wanted to help you. I didn't realize you already had a trainer at the house. I can tell you that it's not easy to find a GOOD trainer. I've had three dogs go to obedience training. Two of the trainers were a waste of money, one was terrific. You need to find the right one that will help with your situation. With my abused pony who was a danger to me at first, I did a ton of reading online and bought a few books. I learned to horse whisper :D to help that traumatized pony. My horse? He's big and strong and doesn't respect me unless I use a crop whip. I had to be trained how to handle him using one. I also had to be trained not to get upset with myself for using it. I only used it a few times and now I usually only have to carry it to make him behave. He needed to know I was boss and respect me as that. Each animal is different and you'll have to decide which way of training will work for YOUR dog. There are videos and books out there. If you can learn to use treats and clicker training, and have your daughter help with the training, I think you could have great success.

 

Again, I do think a fence is necessary before someone DOES get hurt. If I hear a UPS truck coming up our road, I run out to get my dachsund inside. He'll be sure to nip at ankles, because that's what he can reach, ;) if anyone comes onto our property. Dachsunds, like shepards (shepherds? Shephards?) are fiercely protective of their family. Do you think your dog could have some shephard in it?

 

I have a cat that I desperately wanted to get rid of. It was a stray and it was causing problems at my friend's house when her husband was dying. My husband told me to bring it home and let it live in the barn. It was SO sweet. It would cup my face with it's paws and purr in my lap - AT MY FRIEND'S HOUSE. We brought it to the barn and the next day it was wheezing so bad I thought it might die. I brought it inside the house and within a few hours the wheezing stopped. I couldn't imagine hay allergies in a cat. Maybe dust? Who knows. Anyway, it was HELL in our house for the next couple of years. I swore the cat was demonic! :angry: This kitten ruled our house and fought with our other cats. It would stay at the top of the stairs, stand on it's two hind feet with hits front legs/paws spread and ready to grab for attack. It would lunge at our other cats like Godzilla if they ever tired to get upstairs. I wanted it out, but it slept with one of my daughters EVERY night (still checking upstairs through out the night to make sure NO other cat was up there!) and she'd cry her eyes out every time we talked about getting rid of it. I remembered the sadness as a little girl when my parents got rid of my dog and didn't want to do that to my daughter. There were so many cat fights, and it sometimes would scratch people. I was at the end of my rope, and then I brought my mother here to live with us so I could care for her during her final months. This distracted me from the cat. You know, just in the past couple of weeks I've come to realize that this cat is VERY, VERY sweet! I think it took time (it's around 3 years old now) to calm this wild beast down, and she's very sweet now. I'm glad we didn't get rid of her. Our other cats still aren't "allowed" upstairs but sometimes I bring them up and cuddle with them, and do NOT allow the other cat near. I hope for a similar outcome with your dog for you.

 

I forget if you mentioned - is your dog spayed/neutered? These help to tame an animal, too.

 

Hornblower - I completely agree with everything you said. I also agree that neglected dogs handed from family to family never do get the opportunity to train and become a good dog. I understand that scenario, sad as it is.