Responses to pretending that your Average Joe is just as smart as your Super Smarty

[Caribbean Queen]

This is my first time posting on this board. I know I can be frank with you.

 

My oldest son is smart all around. He isn't an amazing genius at one thing, like Math, and then just average or below average in every other way. He is good at everything - from academics, to beating cake batter, to singing, to making friends. If he took an underwater basket weaving class he'd probably be good at that too.

 

My daughter is average. A few of her skills are a little above average, but none of her skills will knock your socks off.

 

After gushing about how impressive my son is, sometimes people will say, "Your daughter is just as smart as your son. She is just younger than he is so of course he is doing more. She is smart in a different way. Maybe you haven't had time to teach her as much as you taught your son at that age because you have three kids now. Why don't you teach her to do the stuff your son did at age four? She's probably really good at something. Why don't you get her in (insert activity they guess my son would not be good in)"

 

If my daughter competed with my son she would lose. If she based her self esteem on being better than others at something, she would lose. There is no way I can keep my daughter from noticing that my son is advanced and she is not as able as he is. Everyone is not equally able. That is a fact of life. That is just the way it is.

 

What am I supposed to say? "No, he is smarter than she is. She can't do the things he did at this age. She isn't very good at anything. Thanks for drawing attention to it right while she is in earshot." :glare:

 

I need a pat response to this kind of thing.

[Jill- OK]

I need a pat response to this kind of thing.

 

"It isn't a contest."

 

Because it isn't.

 

("Mind ya own bidness" is another alternative, lol, but I'm sure you're looking for something more...diplomatic. ;))

[Merry]

about how smart or not smart the kids are.

[Donna]

I think it is very sad to think one child "isn't very good at anything." I can't help but think that you just probably haven't found what dd is good at. Siblings do tend to be relatively close in IQ and first borns do have the advantage of having that parental time alone before the others came along.

 

That being said...my middle son is not as outstanding in the ways that many people value or notice...ie. academics and sports. He is also 2 years younger than his brother who is good at everything he does. At 6 and 4yo, I might have felt similar to the way you feel only I did recognize that my younger son was the sweetest, most giving child, and he was more creative than his brother as well which other people wouldn't notice at first glance.

 

When they got a little older, I purposely have the boys chose different musical instruments so there wouldn't be any competition. My younger son took awhile and a year's break at one point before switching to different teacher but he has finally come into his own in the past 1.5 yrs and is passionate about guitar. He has found something he wants to work hard on and practices for hours a day. He is good at it and it is his own thing.

 

So, I just wanted to tell you that your dd may be good at something. You just may not have found that something, yet. Don't count her out...it can be difficult to always feel you have to live up to the superstar sibling.

 

As for the pat answer to other people... I would take another poster's suggestion and stay out of discussions of my children's giftedness or lack thereof. I wouldn't want the gifted child to constantly hear how gifted he is any more than I would want the other child to always hear how she is not....can be a self-fulfilling prophecy or may be difficult to live up to.

[ccmom]

I was always compared to my TWIN brother, who was the gifted artist, writer, and comedian. Everyone loved how creative and intelligent he was. Although I was considered a "smart student", I wasn't like him and people always felt the need to point that out to me - as though I could never be as great as him. I remember my relief when attending a different university from my brother. It was so nice to have teachers praise my talents, after all those years of being told that I had none (compared to my brother).

 

I like the response from another poster: "It isn't a contest." Your daughter has gifts too, but maybe hers don't stand out like your son's. Truly, it isn't a contest.

[zaichiki]

Other people compare your kids to one another??? That's really shocking. I've NEVER had that conversation with people IRL. I mean, it's obvious my kids have different strengths, but NO ONE has EVER spoken that out loud to me -- especially in front of the children.

 

The children themselves do notice that they have different strengths/weaknesses, but I think they've been able to handle it gracefully. I think they actually appreciate one another. We *have* worked on pointing out that different people have different interests and/or strengths... and we focus on *that.*

 

Anyway, I think I'd be irate if someone had that conversation with me. How did you respond at the time?

 

And can you clarify a bit: who was doing the gushing? Was it the observer gushing about your ds? (They gush about one kid and then go on to compare/contrast the other???)

[JenneinCA]

My daughter (age 10) is crazy smart. Super duper, knock your socks off, crazy smart. She read early, she did most everything academic early and very very well.

 

My son (age 8) didn't. He is good at some things. He is not so good at others. He read at age 5. His handwriting still needs help. He has major peaks and valleys.

 

My younger son (age 5) is probably more like big sister in the smart category, but he is too young to really tell. He is different too.

 

But here is the strange thing, we tested my daughter because I was horribly scared and confused. It was a good thing. She scored in the Profoundly Gifted range. I got some help for me and for her. We tested my older son because I thought he was normal. I thought he was miles and miles off big sister and her level. My husband was sure I missing something. I was wrong. Ds8 is not normal. Ds8 is Profoundly Gifted. What is wrong is my perception of what normal looks like. Ds8 is as far from normal as the tests can measure. But the problem is the tests don't measure well at the ends, especially the top end.

 

Dd10 is a knock your socks off smart girl. Ds8 is a wonderful exciting and very very smart boy. I don't really know how different they are in intelligence. It can't be measured with current instruments. The results of those tests really gave me pause to think about the incredible disservice I would have done to ds8 had I not gotten the test and had numbers in front of me. Just like dd10 is the way she is and is most certainly not normal, ds8 is the way he is and is most definitely not normal either.

 

My view of normal is wrong. In my case horribly horribly wrong.

[zaichiki]

My view of normal is wrong. In my case horribly horribly wrong.

 

I think many of us here have that disability. :D So... do you think the OP might consider that her dd may actually have the not-yet-revealed type of G&T?

 

I know that I didn't have *any* idea that oldest ds was advanced in any way until he was 4. If people made comments about him I really assumed they were just trying to be nice and said that kind of thing to everyone. Then, when he was 4 and "suddenly" hit a ton of milestones "way early," I was kinda shocked. Interestingly, my ds(3) seems to be following in his older brother's footsteps. heh heh He's closing in on 4 and I'm starting to see the signs...

 

I agree that it may be easy to overlook the signs if our measuring stick is "off."

 

Still... to have strangers comparing/contrasting my kids... within their earshot?!?!?! I think I'd be seeing red. I'd probably say something not-so-nice. Good thing this *hasn't* happened to me!

[Jumping In Puddles]

What am I supposed to say? "No, he is smarter than she is. She can't do the things he did at this age. She isn't very good at anything. Thanks for drawing attention to it right while she is in earshot." :glare:

 

I need a pat response to this kind of thing.

 

I would not engage in conversation that was comparing my children. Not even to close relatives. I would change the subject and if that didn't work I would tell them that I am not going to discuss my children's abilities, disabilities, quirks, handicaps, or personalities because I don't think it is fair to label children and to discuss them within earshot.

 

BTW, your dd may surprise you one day... she may not be good at everything like her big brother, but she may make an impact on the world by using a different kind of gift that you have not uncovered and may have nothing to do with how "smart" she is. :)

 

ETA: I just looked at your thread title again. You really thing others are just "pretending" that dd is just as smart as ds? That's... unbelievable.

Edited September 22, 2009 by Jumping In Puddles

[Caribbean Queen]

If we see an adult aquaintance my son might say to him or her, "I remember you. We say you at XYZ. I'm Fakename." and start a conversation with them. If they ask him what grade he is in he might say, "I don't go to school. I homeschool. It's going well." He is so talkative and cute. It delights adults. Oh, and don't let him get started talking about one one of his many interests. They say, "He is so smart!" I have had strangers tell me they overheard him talking, and they have to tell me he is smart.

 

The culture where I live is not one to stay quiet and mind one's own business. My mother is normally reserved and polite, but since we are close she feels comfortable being frank. People comment about my children's abilities. I don't tell people about my son's skills. I don't even tell my mother. I don't encourage them to speak about how smart my son is. People bring it up.

 

When people get to know us they expect my daughter to be the same as my oldest son. She must have a certain area she excells in, right? Maybe she has an undiscovered specialty. Maybe I have failed to tap into her mental powers. I just need to teach her more, maybe.

 

Or maybe not. Maybe she really as average as she appears. Some people have four year olds who can't speak or walk. Thank God I have a normal, healthy, average girl. I am not at all disapointed in my daughter's skills. She isn't disappointed either. Her self esteem is not based on being better than most people, or better than her brother. It is other people who have a hard time accepting it. Expecting her to wow everyone with giftedness since her brother is a Super smarty is not fair to her.

 

Perhaps this is what I should tell my mother. I have tried explaining this to her before but she doesn't "get it." Maybe I need a snappy "Say that again and I will spit bean dip at you." response.

[Caribbean Queen]

I just read your responses. You ladies are almost as bad as my mother. Expecting the gifts to pop out any day now, huh? :) (I am not really mad, just teasing.)

 

Hmmm, so you too think my Princess is a closet Smarty. I guess I just have to goodnaturedly accept the accusation. What else can I do? :001_smile:

[Jumping In Puddles]

You must see some qualities in your daughter that you are able to talk to your mother about, right?

 

As for strangers, maybe you should agree with them! Just because she is not at the same level at age 4 that your son was at age 4, doesn't mean she doesn't have an undiscovered specialty. I understand what you are saying: Who cares if she doesn't have a special talent! She's just a normal kid! (right??)

 

But if anyone said your ds is so smart, I bet your dd will be just as smart! I would probably say "She is a wonderful child... so loving and considerate, I am loving teaching her and she is doing her best - that is all I can ask for!"

 

I wouldn't try to convince them that they are wrong! Let it go. Make peace with that.

[Jumping In Puddles]

I just read your responses. You ladies are almost as bad as my mother. Expecting the gifts to pop out any day now, huh? :) (I am not really mad, just teasing.)

 

Hmmm, so you too think my Princess is a closet Smarty. I guess I just have to goodnaturedly accept the accusation. What else can I do? :001_smile:

 

 

Actually, I don't but I'm saying you are just as bad expecting that your 4 year old will have NO GIFTs at all!!! :p I would agree with you if she was a bit older but I think 4 is too young to say either way.

Edited September 22, 2009 by Jumping In Puddles

[IsabelC]

Why are people gushing about your son all the time? It's natural for you to delight in his accomplishments, but could you persuade your friends and acquaintances to tone down the praise while the kids are listening? It's not good for your daughter, and neither is it good for your son to be constantly hearing about how goshdarn good he is? You know that life isn't just about be good at stuff. So maybe you could change your responses, and next time somebody says your son is awesome at x, you could just say "yeah, he does really enjoy doing x" and move on to the next topic of conversation. If your daughter doesn't seem to be getting the positive comments, could you find something else to say about how honest, kind, funny etc she is. And if your friends make negative comments about her compared to her brother in her hearing, just tell them it's not on.

[LittleIzumi]

I would have come asking this myself but I just realized my 2nd dd needs a COMPLETELY different style of teaching. They are both really young but dd1 was reading at 3 and just soaks up knowledge like a sponge. You can't KEEP Her from learning huge amounts. Dd2 actually has SPD and is speech/communication delayed, hated books, didn't pick up a darn thing on her own it seemed, and we did the same thing as with dd1 (as much as time allows with two). And then she watched our signing ABC drills (I thought they'd hate it :lol:), and within two weeks she learned the entire alphabet, upper and lower. With dd1 I would never had tried drills on anything, or repetition, or any of that. She wouldn't stand for it, would be bored out of her mind. But dd2 seems to really benefit from 1) visual and 2) predictable repetition. I wouldn't have tried that on my own with her. It's possible she just needs a new way of thinking about things to open up her potential.

And, of course, it is possible that she is mostly average. But even mostly average people have things they love to do, and when she finds those you can point those out. Or, bring out the bean dip and start spitting ;)

[Caribbean Queen]

I think if she works hard at something she can become very good at it.

 

For instance, she likes ballet. If she told me she wanted to be a ballerina when she grows up I would tell her, "Yeah! If you keep at it, and work hard, you can do it."

 

Now imagine a well meaning adult says that based on her brother's intellence, my daughter must be a "natural" "quick study" "full of grace" a star, and better than even the older girls etc.

 

What am I to say? "No, she is just an awkard little girl who will need to work very hard if she really wants to get good at it." ? That is the truth.

 

Impress with her other amazing skills, "Let's not talk about dance. Just yesterday she drew a person with arms, plus she found a nickel."

 

Or should I lie and say "Yes she is an amazing star." and then tell my daughter later that I lied because I didn't want to explain how she is not all that good?

 

Or should I always pretend I think she is a star, since some lady brought that up and the truth is too insulting for my daughter to hear. Maybe my lies will fool my daughter for a few months.

 

 

And no, she is not a secretly gifted dancer, so don't even go there. :lol:

[IsabelC]

In that scenario I would just laugh and say "Hey, we don't compare children in this family, we just love them all being different!" and leave it at that.

 

If your daughter asks you about whether she is any good or could become a great dancer, just be honest but tactful as you normally would. You could point out that only a minuscule percentage of children learning ballet end up as professional dancers, but that anyone who is willing to practise can become good enough to enjoy dancing. If she happens to stay mad about ballet (she'll probably go through another 20 interests if she's like my 4yo!) and isn't talented enough to audition for a dance company in 10 years time, she can find other outlets like dancing at a family event or a charity performance.

Edited September 22, 2009 by Hotdrink

[cdgni]

Why not gracefully accept the compliments and drop it. Your daughter is only four years old. You don't know what she has inside of her that may manifest itself in the next few years. Typically, if the children are full siblings, the IQ range is within 10 points of each other. So, if someone compliments her, say Thank you and stop. In looking at your posts, you seem very hard on her. I wouldn't say to her "oh I lied about you." Why destroy her ego? Please, for your daughter's sake, don't undermine or prejudice her against herself. Remember the Pygmalion affect. If you expect her to be average or slower, she might just be that. If you expect her to be talented (like her brother), it may be waiting to be released.

From Wikipedia "The Pygmalion effect is a form of self-fulfilling prophecy, and in this respect, people with poor expectations internalize their negative label, and those with positive labels succeed accordingly."

 

 

 

I think if she works hard at something she can become very good at it.

 

For instance, she likes ballet. If she told me she wanted to be a ballerina when she grows up I would tell her, "Yeah! If you keep at it, and work hard, you can do it."

 

Now imagine a well meaning adult says that based on her brother's intellence, my daughter must be a "natural" "quick study" "full of grace" a star, and better than even the older girls etc.

 

What am I to say? "No, she is just an awkard little girl who will need to work very hard if she really wants to get good at it." ? That is the truth.

 

Impress with her other amazing skills, "Let's not talk about dance. Just yesterday she drew a person with arms, plus she found a nickel."

 

Or should I lie and say "Yes she is an amazing star." and then tell my daughter later that I lied because I didn't want to explain how she is not all that good?

 

Or should I always pretend I think she is a star, since some lady brought that up and the truth is too insulting for my daughter to hear. Maybe my lies will fool my daughter for a few months.

 

 

And no, she is not a secretly gifted dancer, so don't even go there. :lol:

[AK_Mom4]

I know where you are coming from. I have 4 kids that have all at one time or another been tested and score in the Profoundly Gifted category. but when people meet them, only my oldest comes across as being really really smart. Smart enough so that when he was young, people who met him would comment about it. It's the kind of gifted like your son has - everything he tries come easily and he seems to do well without effort.

 

My other 3 are different. My older DD15 is a social chameleon. She can change her personality at will to blend in with any crowd. People like her, but no one ever comments on how smart she is. She gets good grades because we don't give her a choice, so she figures out what the absolute minimum she needs to do to pass but not stand out. DS13 is virtually silent in public and pretty geeky. And he has to work much harder than his older brother at physical things. DD8 is going thru her princess phase right now and gets along well with people - but not the same way her sister does.

 

I guess my rambling point is that gifted and smart don't always look like the "smarty" version like my oldest. My other 3 come across as nice kids, but a little boring compared to the super-star personality of their older borther.

[patchfire]

You know, I'm thinking about what you said about "talkative and cute," and how adults are delighted by it. I know the type of interaction you're describing, and it occurs to me that it sounds like it's more about age and personality than smarts. Different personalities are going to be more or less "winning" and appealing to non-parental adults at different ages, and that's okay.

 

At first, I read this, thinking "Wow, people wouldn't really say those things, would they?" But then I remembered that someone was talking with me just a few months ago about my youngest and adjusting to three kids, and she ended her point with, "And I'm sure it's even harder since she wasn't planned." :blink: As it happened, she absolutely was, but the point is that people will think just about anything, and then blurt it out. Why, I don't know.

 

So, yes, I think the key to find a way to divert the conversation. It also sounds like it's two separate issues - how you feel they view your daughter, as well as how you feel they view you. The comments about not teaching her as much and so forth are really not about her innate intelligence, but about what they perceived you as doing or not doing in the past as compared to now. Separate out your feelings on that, too, and that might help you get some clarity. :)

[plimsoll]

It sounds to me like you are dealing with a lot of people who feel the need to give you unsolicited advice and opinions. I would try to be gracious -- thank them for their advice/idea/recommendation/etc. and continue to do whatever you know is best for your children. In the end, your children are your children, not theirs, and these unwelcome advice-givers will just have to learn to accept the decisions you make on how you want to lead your life, raise your children, etc.

[RanchGirl]

I wonder if these people are not just randomly giving out advice, not just reacting to the awesomeness of your son, but in fact are genuinely concerned because they notice *your* attitude toward your daughter is that she is not as "special" or "gifted" as your son? So they're trying to convince you of something you apparently don't wish to consider, which is that she may have hidden talents that haven't appeared yet at the ripe old age of FOUR. I dunno, only you know what the conversations are really about.

 

If it's truly people trying to compare your children negatively, I would shut them down asap. If they are being complimentary toward both kids, I would smile and say "Thanks, I think they're (both) great too. What do you think of this crazy weather?" I see no reason to argue with them that yes child A is super fabulous but child B is just average. What purpose would that possibly serve?

 

Something else to consider, for both kids, is that hearing how much natural ability you have at a young age can in fact be detrimental... I always had to re-direct my mother in law's praise for my boys, especially for my eldest because she really favors him. Which bugs me no end but that's another story. She would say "oh you're so smart" And I would say "yes he's been working very hard on that, I'm so proud of how hard he worked on it"...etc. I believe both my boys have been given amazing talents but I primarily praise their efforts, not their ability.

[Laura Corin]

I would divert the discussion of your son, so you don't get to that point in the conversation. How I deal with it is:

 

She: Goodness, Calvin is very bright, isn't he?

Me: He really likes to read, so he picks some stuff up. Hobbes likes reading too and he's very interested in nature. Isn't it nice to live around here, where the children can be outside so much....

 

I always turn discussion of smartness to talk about what the boys like to do. It seems to work.

 

Laura

[Caribbean Queen]

So is every child equally (but differently) gifted? Are all adults gifted too?

 

What about people who are obviously far below average, like people who are mentally retarded. How do they fit in to this picture of everyone being equally gifted?

 

Assuming that all of us are not equally gifted, wouldn't it be best not to base our worth and self esteem on giftedness? Is so, there would be no need to pretend that someone is gifted in order to give them (a false) sense of self esteem.

[Jumping In Puddles]

1. Not all children are gifted.

 

2. Not all gifted children are successful.

 

3. If one child is gifted, it is likely that their siblings will be gifted.

 

4. It is not always easy to tell with children at what age their giftedness will show. Some will be 2 years old, some will be 7 years old.

 

5. Not all adults are gifted.

 

6. Some adults, not gifted, are more successful, happier, and make more contributions to society because of DRIVE, HARD WORK, and persistence.

 

7. Some adults that are not gifted won't be successful. They will be lazy, dependent, and selfish. Some not gifted adults will be just your average person. So will some gifted adults.

 

8. Some athletically gifted or academically gifted will be exceptional adults who will always outshine others in certain careers and endeavors.

 

 

Why do you think people here are saying that everyone has a gift or talent that is superior to the average person?

 

All I've seen here is that you can't possibly know yet but because she has a gifted brother, it is likely she may be as intelligent.

 

YOU DO NOT HAVE TO PRETEND YOUR DD IS GIFTED, but you shouldn't assume she is not! (at least not yet :lol:)

 

If someone gushes about your dd's ballet skills, why not just say "she loves ballet" and leave it at that? Why do you feel you need to gush about her being an amazing star, or correct somebody by telling them that she really is average or below average in dance? :confused:

[zaichiki]

What I'm hearing now is that it's all about the culture in which you live. I'm guessing the OP is in the Carribean? My dh is from Russia, and we've been there with the kids: the culture is SO different. People really do come up to you on the street and offer unsolicited advice. And you're supposed to take it gracefully. It would DO ME IN to live in a culture like that full time: sharing personal information and seeming to appreciate advice from strangers who do not know me or my child!

 

Anyway... the OP may not be able to escape the comments within earshot of the kids. If that is the case, I'm so sorry. Really. I don't know what to tell you. I'd move. heh heh You'd find very supportive, intellectual communities in the suburbs of major US cities! Of course... I'm just kidding with you. (I'm not REALLY suggesting you move away from family.)

 

:)

 

Why are people gushing about your son all the time? It's natural for you to delight in his accomplishments, but could you persuade your friends and acquaintances to tone down the praise while the kids are listening? It's not good for your daughter, and neither is it good for your son to be constantly hearing about how goshdarn good he is? You know that life isn't just about be good at stuff. So maybe you could change your responses, and next time somebody says your son is awesome at x, you could just say "yeah, he does really enjoy doing x" and move on to the next topic of conversation. If your daughter doesn't seem to be getting the positive comments, could you find something else to say about how honest, kind, funny etc she is. And if your friends make negative comments about her compared to her brother in her hearing, just tell them it's not on.

[Caribbean Queen]

1. Why do you think people here are saying that everyone has a gift or talent that is superior to the average person?

 

 

...Why do you feel you need to gush about her being an amazing star, or correct somebody by telling them that she really is average or below average in dance? :confused:

 

I liked your post. I just quoted the parts I want to clarify.

 

People keep saying that even thoguh my daughter appears average, she must be gifted. That is why I asked if people here think all people are gifted.

 

I do not gush about her being an amazing star. Other people do because they are grasping at straws trying to come up with some amazing talent she has - "Since her brother is gifted she must be too." is what they are thinking.

 

If I say "Yeah, she is a star." I lie. Saying, "No she isn't a star." is the truth, but I see from the responses here that many people find that to be insulting and harmful to children's self esteem.

 

Changing the subject as much as possible sounds like a good idea.

[Kuovonne]

Is it possible that these other people realize that they are gushing about one sibling, and then the adults feel like they should say something similarly "nice" about the other sibling, so that they don't hurt her feelings? For example, my kids are friends with two sisters, and I if find myself complementing one sister on her pretty dress, I usually try to find something nice to say to the other sister too so she doesn't feel left out.

[JenneinCA]

I do NOT think every child is gifted. But I do think that, as a parent, I am not able to distinguish who is gifted and who is not. I assumed that my first born was normal and based everything off that. Good grief, I assumed *I* was normal and that isn't accurate either.

 

My dd10 is the kind of smart that is easily noticed. She is good at everything. Her peaks are scary high and her valleys all stay above the smart level. To the person who doesn't know she looks incredible at everything. And honestly, she is.

 

My ds8 is not that kind of smart. He is good at some things and not so good at others. His peaks are still scary high but his valleys are in the average zone. To the person who just meets him he looks normal. He looks like a kid who plays Lego and K'nex and light sabers. He looks like a kid who has grade level handwriting, spelling and writing. He looks like a nothing special kid. But he isn't.

 

I really suggest that if you are going to continue to compare your kids then really do it right and get the testing done. Let someone who really knows what normal looks like tell you how far (or not) your kids are from normal. You may be surprised.

[lionfamily1999]

I've been in situations where my kids are compared. Normally, I head them off at the pass and say, 'it's AMAZING how different sibling are! Who would have thought that such INCREDIBLE, INDIVIDUAL people could result from two gene pools???'

 

All of my kids are smart. Dd has a gift with words and pictures. She is a natural leader. Older ds is a deep thinker. He's very quiet, he keeps to himself and he has a gift with languages. Youngest ds is the most obvious, because he's the most outgoing, the most charming. It's obvious that he's advanced because he's a motormouth.

 

Very often my older dcs will gush, right along with adults, over our youngest. He's cute. He's got dimples and the ability to know how to charm people. He's quiet and sweet for the ones that like that and loud and jolly for others. Be that as it may, I do not allow anyone, including myself, to assume he is greater than or better than his siblings. Sure, he picked up on a lot sooner, but he has these wonderful older sibs to look up too.

 

Be careful that you don't accidentally make dd feel less than. She is a beautiful individual with endless potential. One day she may do great things. Your ds has a heavy burden, the 'gifted' label is not a light thing to carry and I've known people crushed beneath its weight. Both of your children are great, incredible and amazing. To think differently is to ignore the vast potential inside them both.

[AnitaMcC]

I was always compared to my TWIN brother, who was the gifted artist, writer, and comedian. Everyone loved how creative and intelligent he was. Although I was considered a "smart student", I wasn't like him and people always felt the need to point that out to me - as though I could never be as great as him. I remember my relief when attending a different university from my brother. It was so nice to have teachers praise my talents, after all those years of being told that I had none (compared to my brother).

 

I like the response from another poster: "It isn't a contest." Your daughter has gifts too, but maybe hers don't stand out like your son's. Truly, it isn't a contest.

 

 

This is something we are watchful with our kids... especially our Ds and Dd who are twins. We try very hard to point out that their talents are their own talents. We do not compare them in ways like... "So and So can do this. Why can't you?" We avoid that contest.

 

We try to focus on them as individuals. We let them know that they are talented in their own ways and that what they do with their talents is up to them. We also point out that they have their own weaknesses and challenges as everyone does. We remind them that, as humans, we all have areas that we can improve. What matters is to be the best that we can be and that our talents and weaknesses all have room for improvement. No one person is better person than the other based on smarts and talents. That we all are human and none of us are identical so measuring what we do individually, comparing each other, isn't going to work.

[Storm Bay]

If we see an adult aquaintance my son might say to him or her, "I remember you. We say you at XYZ. I'm Fakename." and start a conversation with them. If they ask him what grade he is in he might say, "I don't go to school. I homeschool. It's going well." He is so talkative and cute. It delights adults. Oh, and don't let him get started talking about one one of his many interests. They say, "He is so smart!" I have had strangers tell me they overheard him talking, and they have to tell me he is smart.

 

The culture where I live is not one to stay quiet and mind one's own business. My mother is normally reserved and polite, but since we are close she feels comfortable being frank. People comment about my children's abilities. I don't tell people about my son's skills. I don't even tell my mother. I don't encourage them to speak about how smart my son is. People bring it up.

 

When people get to know us they expect my daughter to be the same as my oldest son. She must have a certain area she excells in, right? Maybe she has an undiscovered specialty. Maybe I have failed to tap into her mental powers. I just need to teach her more, maybe.

 

Or maybe not. Maybe she really as average as she appears. Some people have four year olds who can't speak or walk. Thank God I have a normal, healthy, average girl. I am not at all disapointed in my daughter's skills. She isn't disappointed either. Her self esteem is not based on being better than most people, or better than her brother. It is other people who have a hard time accepting it. Expecting her to wow everyone with giftedness since her brother is a Super smarty is not fair to her.

 

Perhaps this is what I should tell my mother. I have tried explaining this to her before but she doesn't "get it." Maybe I need a snappy "Say that again and I will spit bean dip at you." response.

 

 

fwiw, there are some bonafide brilliant people out there who didn't talk until they were 3 or 4. eg Einstein.

 

I have to say that you can't tell that your dd is average yet, even if all of her achievements are less than your ds. I had one I was worried would be delayed for years and was below average who turned out to be gifted. I have another who is gifted and hides it so well most people have no clue. She's more concerned with fitting in.

Edited September 22, 2009 by Karin

[Nan in Mass]

The funny thing is that it hasn't always been the same child who was considered "below" the other one LOL. Mine are now 22, 19, and 15. The middle one was a mechanically inept space cadet when he was small and his older brother was mechanically gifted and socially charming. Our engineering-oriented friends and family were baffled by the younger one and tried to be helpful about what he must be good at. Then the older one became a teenager and wasn't around much and the middle one began doing some amazing things (having nothing to do with academics) and people praised him no end and then would realize that his younger brother was right there leaning against me, suspicious and shy and inarticulate, and the conversation would go very much as you described. Then when I was homeschooling the middle and younger together, it was obvious that the younger one found academics much easier than the middle one, much much easier, to the point where people commented on it and tried to be helpful... It is difficult. None of mine are more than brightish, probably, and having had friends who were blazing stars, I'm just as glad they aren't, but somehow, people don't believe you when you say you are happy with your normal child, do they LOL? I used to smile at the child and hug them to me (if they were right with me) and said that they were my sweetheart. The smile was the same amused sort of smile with a twinkle that I gave them when we shared a secret that we weren't talking about. For whatever reason, it seemed to work. Perhaps it made the other person aware that my son was listening and they ought to guard their tongue a bit, or perhaps it wasn't something people could argue with much, but I was always able to change the subject. I never bothered to follow up with my children, but they lived with each other and knew that their perfect-looking brother wasn't really. They don't compete with each other and have always been openly and vocally proud of each other's accomplishments, which helped the situation a good deal. I didn't try to find different activities for mine. They have found their own activities. They all did gymnastics and scouts and had piano lessons. It was easier for me that way. Their interests developed out of those things or family interests as they got older - piano turned into guitar for my oldest, gymnastics turned into bouldering for the middle one, the youngest latched on to the family hobby of sailing and began playing D+D with his friends - things like that.

 

I totally sympathize with your problem. It happened to us a lot.

-Nan

Edited September 25, 2009 by Nan in Mass

[Jan in SC]

Could you be confusing social and academic precociousness with profound giftedness? I have a very, very social child that is comfortable in each and every situation. He could probably compete in extemporaneous speech with children 5 or 6 years older. He is not profoundly gifted.

Yes, he reads well above grade level. He could multiply and divide in first grade. He is a wonderful, bright, above-average child.

 

His brother cannot read well. It takes great effort to understand the basic directions on a math page. However, he can grasp math and physics concepts that baffle me! He does not delight every adult that meets him. He is very, very shy. He has the quickest wit in the family and constantly has us laughing.

 

There is still another brother. He is only 6. I have no idea what he will do. He is WAY too young.

At 4...give her a chance!

[8filltheheart]

I honestly don't care how smart, bright, or completely un-capable my kids are. They simply are who they are. I don't compare them. I don't think that one that is extremely smart is somehow better than one who struggles. Gifts/talents are only a part of who a person really is.

 

There are profoundly gifted individuals who end up succeeding at nothing in life b/c they are so used to having no challenges that they are lazy and self-indulgent. There are people that are not as intelligent that end up making significant contributions in their fields b/c they are diligent and driven. Success is not directly correlated to intelligence. (those are not definitives, but they are possible realities)

 

One thing I thing I firmly believe is a disservice to children is putting them "in a box." At 4 and 6 there is no way to predict what lies in their futures. If my kids ever feel deflated b/c so and so can do this so much better than they can, my immediate response is that is simply that they have their own gifts and challenges. You are incredibly wonderful and your challenges in life are just different than theirs. (and that is not a lie or an exaggeration. Everyone, I don't care who they are, has different strengths and weaknesses even if it is pleasantness of personality, willingness to put others first, humility, etc. There are virtues of far greater value than intelligence and physical prowess)

 

I also agree with everyone else that it is impossible to know their full potentials at 4 and 6. Your 4 yod's brain is still maturing. Just b/c your ds's matured earlier does not mean that your dd's abilities will not be equal. Spend some time reading about physical and cognitive development of the brain. A brain does not even physically reach its full size until typically the age of 6......let alone all cognitive development that takes place.

[melmichigan]

From the research of the Gifted Development Centers assessment of 5,600 gifted students.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

"Brothers and sisters are usually within five or ten points in measured ability. Parents' IQ scores are often within 10 points of their children's; even grandparents' IQ scores may be within 10 points of their grandchildren's. We studied 148 sets of siblings and found that over 1/3 were within five points of each other, over 3/5 were within 10 points, and nearly 3/4 were within 13 points. When one child in the family is identified as gifted, the chances are great that all members of the family are gifted.

 

Second children are recognized as gifted much less frequently than first-borns or only children. They often go in the opposite direction of their older siblings and are less likely to be achievement oriented. Even the first-born identical twin has a greater chance of being accepted in a gifted program than the second-born!"

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

I wouldn't discuss my children's giftedness or non-giftedness with others, even my parents, in front of my children.

 

I have five children. Three of which have reached testing age. All three are definately gifted. Do they all appear the same, absolutely not. My youngest DD was recently identified as a "profound underachiever" on her achievement test that was performed because we were concerned that she might have an LD. They are as much individuals as any other children. I think many are just wondering if maybe your DD doesn't show her 'gifts' the same as her brother, or even yet at four. Or that, maybe you are in 'gifted' denial. ;) None of us can say.

[Jumping In Puddles]

I honestly don't care how smart, bright, or completely un-capable my kids are. They simply are who they are. I don't compare them. I don't think that one that is extremely smart is somehow better than one who struggles. Gifts/talents are only a part of who a person really is.

 

There are profoundly gifted individuals who end up succeeding at nothing in life b/c they are so used to having no challenges that they are lazy and self-indulgent. There are people that are not as intelligent that end up making significant contributions in their fields b/c they are diligent and driven. Success is not directly correlated to intelligence. (those are not definitives, but they are possible realities)

 

One thing I thing I firmly believe is a disservice to children is putting them "in a box." At 4 and 6 there is no way to predict what lies in their futures. If my kids ever feel deflated b/c so and so can do this so much better than they can, my immediate response is that is simply that they have their own gifts and challenges. You are incredibly wonderful and your challenges in life are just different than theirs. (and that is not a lie or an exaggeration. Everyone, I don't care who they are, has different strengths and weaknesses even if it is pleasantness of personality, willingness to put others first, humility, etc. There are virtues of far greater value than intelligence and physical prowess)

 

I also agree with everyone else that it is impossible to know their full potentials at 4 and 6. Your 4 yod's brain is still maturing. Just b/c your ds's matured earlier does not mean that your dd's abilities will not be equal. Spend some time reading about physical and cognitive development of the brain. A brain does not even physically reach its full size until typically the age of 6......let alone all cognitive development that takes place.

:iagree: Wow, this was a beautiful post! :) You sound like an amazing mom.

[melmichigan]

:iagree: Wow, this was a beautiful post! :) You sound like an amazing mom.

 

:iagree: I second that!

[Storm Bay]

I honestly don't care how smart, bright, or completely un-capable my kids are. They simply are who they are. I don't compare them. I don't think that one that is extremely smart is somehow better than one who struggles. Gifts/talents are only a part of who a person really is.

 

There are profoundly gifted individuals who end up succeeding at nothing in life b/c they are so used to having no challenges that they are lazy and self-indulgent. There are people that are not as intelligent that end up making significant contributions in their fields b/c they are diligent and driven. Success is not directly correlated to intelligence. (those are not definitives, but they are possible realities)

 

One thing I thing I firmly believe is a disservice to children is putting them "in a box." At 4 and 6 there is no way to predict what lies in their futures. If my kids ever feel deflated b/c so and so can do this so much better than they can, my immediate response is that is simply that they have their own gifts and challenges. You are incredibly wonderful and your challenges in life are just different than theirs. (and that is not a lie or an exaggeration. Everyone, I don't care who they are, has different strengths and weaknesses even if it is pleasantness of personality, willingness to put others first, humility, etc. There are virtues of far greater value than intelligence and physical prowess)

 

I also agree with everyone else that it is impossible to know their full potentials at 4 and 6. Your 4 yod's brain is still maturing. Just b/c your ds's matured earlier does not mean that your dd's abilities will not be equal. Spend some time reading about physical and cognitive development of the brain. A brain does not even physically reach its full size until typically the age of 6......let alone all cognitive development that takes place.

 

 

This is a great post, and well put, too. btw, even once a brain reaches its full size, it isn't even close to being fully developed, even in a pg dc.

Edited September 26, 2009 by Karin

[Storm Bay]

I just read your responses. You ladies are almost as bad as my mother. Expecting the gifts to pop out any day now, huh? :) (I am not really mad, just teasing.)

 

Hmmm, so you too think my Princess is a closet Smarty. I guess I just have to goodnaturedly accept the accusation. What else can I do? :001_smile:

 

 

No, we have older children. Some of us have been where you were and been surprised. I still remember one forum member, whom I haven't seen on the AL forum lately, who thought the same thing as you did about her dd when her dd was 4. I still remember how surprised she was when her dd's giftedness started appearing. Most of the time the siblings of gifted dc are also gifted, even if not at the same giftedness level.

 

Not everyone one is saying for sure that your dd is gifted but that you need to wait before assuming that to be correct.

[Storm Bay]

1. Not all children are gifted.

 

 

If someone gushes about your dd's ballet skills, why not just say "she loves ballet" and leave it at that? Why do you feel you need to gush about her being an amazing star, or correct somebody by telling them that she really is average or below average in dance? :confused:

 

 

This was a great post, and it got me thinking. Although I really was tested gifted, my mother, to this day, rarely gives me an unqualified compliment. It's as if she's afraid my ego will bloat or something. As much as I love my mother, and she is a wonderful parent, it can still hurt at times if I'm having a challenging day, because it can feel like I'll never be good enough to please her (believe me, I'm not worried about being perfect and it was my sister who was the pleaser in the family, not me).

 

One of the worst things you can do in front of your dd is to downplay any compliment anyone gives her. It's not just whether or not it could become a self-fulfilling prophesy, but it can drive a huge wedge in there during the teen years (guess how I know...).

[Jumping In Puddles]

 

One of the worst things you can do in front of your dd is to downplay any compliment anyone gives her. It's not just whether or not it could become a self-fulfilling prophesy, but it can drive a huge wedge in there during the teen years (guess how I know...).

 

Good point. We are also modeling for our children How to accept a compliment.

 

Maybe: "I'm proud of my dancer... she loves it and I look forward to the recital when I can see her dance, it is such a joy" or something like that. That would accept the compliment, make the dc feel good, and avoid the gushing "she is so wonderful, she is sure to be one of the greatest ballet stars of our generation" :tongue_smilie:

[StartingOver]

"Every child develops at their own pace. Thanks for you opinion." then just walk away. I went through this with my older children. I just stop it short. Sooner or later they get the picture.

[Caribbean Queen]

I wish this thread would die.

 

Part of the problem with this thread is that I live in a different culture than many posters. Where I live people comment on my children's intelligence. People make comments about all kinds of things here. These comments just come out of people's mouths. My children hear them. Since most of you are from the US or Canada (right?) maybe you don't know what it is like to have people all-up-in-your-business-and-ready-to-make-comments. If I still lived in the states, I bet I would not be hearing all the comments I hear now.

 

Another issue is whether or not it is okay to say a 4 year old is not gifted. I have no problem with it.

 

I don't think we need to think our children are gifted to make it a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

I don't think we need to wait until we have done IQ testing in order to say so. I think I know what is normal behavior and what is extraordinary behavior for a 4 year old. I could be wrong, sure, but I am sure enough to say what I think here.

 

I don't think we need to say our children are gifted for the children's self esteem.

 

I understand that most gifted children have gifted siblings. Most, not all. I guess we are in the minority.

 

Perhaps my daughter will start displying gifted traits in the future. Well then good. But for now, I think it is safe to say, she is not gifted. Perhaps my son will have a unpleasantly surprising slow-down in his learning and end up average. Well, okay, but that doesn't mean I can't call him gifted today.

 

I understand that some do not agree with me when I say my daughter is not gifted. I think you are well intentioned and I hope you understand that I do not have bad intentions, I just think of the subject differently.

 

Some people posted that gifted children can be lazy and go no where in life. :confused: I thought that this wouldn't need to be said, but perhaps it does: I love all my children. I love my daughter. I don't think any less of her than my son. My older son is not a better person or loved more or anything like that. In real life people a few people have tried to guess which child is my favorite and the guesses were spread among the three children (I really don't have a favorite child.) I do perceive a difference in my children's intelliegence and skill. Please don't read a lot of extra things into that. It is what it is. Nothing more.

 

I do not want to talk with my children about their intelligence. I don't think that is necessary or helpful. It is other people who keep bringing the subject up, which is what I was saying in the first paragraph. I wish I could shut them up. Some posters have suggested some "bean dip" type comments I will try.

[LittleIzumi]

Maybe you could turn it around and ask if they or their siblings are smarter in their own family? :tongue_smilie:If it's a very different culture it's hard to know what kind of responses would be acceptable/appropriate.

[talexand]

Its funny about oldest children. There is no question that they should their giftedness differently than younger. I agree that not all children are gifted. They are unique and special because they are themselves but that doesn't mean they are or even should be the best at something. But I also get this nagging feeling that many parents assume their second children aren't academically gifted because they don't show it the way their older siblings did.

 

I have a theory, and it is based on nothing but my own thinking about birth order. I think the first child has adults as role models and this affects the way they show their giftedness, especially when they are very young. Younger siblings have children as role models and I think this shows differently. It is just too much of a coincidence that the children that show the most extrordinary giftedness are the oldest or only children. But this happens again and again. It has got to be environment, not ability. So the fear is that parents will not give the same stimulating activities to the second child that the first probably demanded and pushed for and then they don't grow in the same way the older child did either. I'm not saying that you are doing this, or that I am doing this with my second child. But I think it can happen and we should be careful of our assumptions. Not because we are hoping for a gifted label for the child. But just because there is a good chance that we are not yet seeing something that could be important in their education.

 

So yes, I would not be surprised if she is a closet smartie. But I agree you should have something ready to say. Its not a contest. She is doing just fine.

[melmichigan]

I'm sorry that we aren't understanding the culture you are exposed to. I wish you the best in coming up with some good answers to these comments. :)

[TravelingChris]

First of all, my kids did not act the same at young ages. Based on the behaviors at various ages, I could truthfully say that at age 2, x was ahead but at 4, y was ahead. There are studies out there that say that in neuro-normal siblings, the IQ levels are close. THat said, my oldest showed more gifts earlier than my next two in some ways. My middle showed musical talent gifts at a young age and then after she was 11, she started showing her writing gifts. SHe also has the best work ethic of my three so no matter where her gifts are to begin with, she will achieve a lot. My third is gifted on the mathy, science, engineering type area but she is a very stubborn perfectionist and it took a while for people to see. I don't allow people to negatively compare.

[LittleIzumi]

Its funny about oldest children. There is no question that they should their giftedness differently than younger. I agree that not all children are gifted. They are unique and special because they are themselves but that doesn't mean they are or even should be the best at something. But I also get this nagging feeling that many parents assume their second children aren't academically gifted because they don't show it the way their older siblings did.

 

I have a theory, and it is based on nothing but my own thinking about birth order. I think the first child has adults as role models and this affects the way they show their giftedness, especially when they are very young. Younger siblings have children as role models and I think this shows differently. It is just too much of a coincidence that the children that show the most extrordinary giftedness are the oldest or only children. But this happens again and again. It has got to be environment, not ability. So the fear is that parents will not give the same stimulating activities to the second child that the first probably demanded and pushed for and then they don't grow in the same way the older child did either. I'm not saying that you are doing this, or that I am doing this with my second child. But I think it can happen and we should be careful of our assumptions. Not because we are hoping for a gifted label for the child. But just because there is a good chance that we are not yet seeing something that could be important in their education.

 

So yes, I would not be surprised if she is a closet smartie. But I agree you should have something ready to say. Its not a contest. She is doing just fine.

 

Plus we can focus just on the older child in the beginning, with constant one-on-one attention and instruction. The subsequent children always have to share us (except dd2 is trying her darndest to be #1 :lol:). So they develop in a different environment, even in the same home.