Math facts blind spot

[kalanamak]

We are using Singapore math, and kiddo usually likes math and uses it in daily life, e.g. spontaneously counts things, skip counts by 2s or 5s, mentions things like "if I took 7 from 5, I'd owe you two" and, when pointed out the name of this, uses the phrase "negative number", etc.

 

When we cover something new, like the greater than or less than sign, money, time etc. he catches on very smoothly and we quietly work our way through the workbooks and some intensive practice pages.

 

Math facts such as doubling and plus or minus 0,1, and 2 have been *immediate since he first saw them 2 years ago*. However, he cannot seem to retain something like 6+8=14 for the life of him. When we do "wrap-ups", he sort of singsongs and mutters and, I think, counts up in his head, and clicks along that way, but **1 minute after covering 6+8**, after chanting it or counting out unit blocks and coming to answer for the 500th time or looking at an addition table we made, or putting a finger on 8 on a number line and counting up, or any number of other "reinforcements" I've dreamed up, he greets it with a blank look and doesn't know it. Nothing else in our math or other work is greeted with this blank look.

 

We finished Singapore 1B in early March. The HIG advises knowing the addition facts before progressing. Looking ahead at the beginnings of carrying over, it really looks like she's right. So, for 10 hours or more a month for 5 months, we have done wrap ups, flash cards, manipulative sessions, Sum Swamp, dice games, Addition War card games, mental math sheets from the back of Singapore math 2A, etc., etc., etc.

In desperation, I finally started forging on with 2A, and while he thinks place value is a piece of cake and wants his number values pad to have 1s, 10s, 100s, AND 1000s and more, he is still just guesses when he sees a number fact like 8+7.

 

Arg! Anyone got any smooth tricks? 50 hours of drill later, I need to try something I haven't thought of yet. Last night, after 15 hours straight of work, school work, and housecleaning, I actually raised my exhausted voice. Now I'm up unable to sleep because I shouted over math. Lend me your ideas!!

[EthiopianFood]

Big :grouphug:. I have no advice on how to get past this, I really don't. I do want to say that ultimately, you can't MAKE a child understand something. You provide the tools to HELP them understand, but ultimately it is up to their little brains to make it click. I very much hope someone has good advice on how to allow this to happen sooner, but in the end, you do your best and just keep plugging along. Also, be proud of what he CAN do!! WOW!

[8filltheheart]

I like Math-It's approach.....

 

B/c your child has mastered the facts you listed, this approach might work well.

 

You review 10+s which should be immediate. Then you teach that 9+s are simply 10+s step back one. Once the 9+s are mastered, you teach that 8+s are step back 2.

 

Since he already knows his doubles, then you teach neighbors.......3+4 is between 3+3 and 4+4, etc.

 

That only leaves 5 facts to be memorized.......6+3, 6+4, 7+3, 7+4, and 7+5

[PeterPan]

Give him an addition table and move on.

 

Seriously, do you really think it will not stick sooner or later? Some kids just have seives for brains when it comes to facts. Do what you can and give it time. Be consistent with doing SOMETHING, but don't be laborious. Test his learning style at http://www.educate.com (free online assessment) and make sure you're practicing in a way that fits his modality. My dd is a dominantly visual learner (not what I anticipated when I did it a couple years ago, having totally misread her), so I totally changed my math drill approach. I let her SEE the relationships more by using math tables. I dumped auditory practice entirely. I got her a Flashmaster. If he's a kinesthetic learner, you might do something entirely different, having him jump on a trampoline or the stairs while saying his facts, run to the board with cards to match to problems, clap, etc.

 

My dd continued to move on conceptually, even when her facts were not nailed. Might be ideal to nail them, but you have to find that balance. If they're asking to keep going, you keep going. Be a little sneaky about it and have him do checks for his subtraction using addition. But I wouldn't just stop. Just keep working on it and move on.

[Pongo]

The mumbling kinda makes me thing he may be a whole to parts learner. Try the big picture first.

 

Show him the math facts WITH the answer and drill them like that, then take the answer out. You could cut an index card in half , write the answer in a big bright bold color, and use a bit of poster putty to place it where the answer should be(if you are using store bought drill cards).

Say it together 6 + 4 =10, hold the card up over his head so he has to look up at it. Then have him close his eyes and repeat it. This is a technique used for left brain learners or any learner that wants to ingrain information into long term memory. Did you ever notice when your child is thinking of the answer to something, they look up, as if thinking, this is why. My little one could not for the life of her remember her phonograms, when I switched to this technique, it seems as if overnight she knew them, solid.

 

You could try Times Tales, this has a math story application.

 

Good Luck!

[stripe]

There is something about those 6s and 8s, isn't there?

 

That only leaves 5 facts to be memorized.......6+3, 6+4, 7+3, 7+4, and 7+5

And 6+4=5+5, and 7+5=6+6. So I think that you should, since he gets doubles and gets +-1 facts, that 6+8=(6+1)+(8-1)=7+7. Let him visualize the 6 and 8 joining and being harmonious by becoming 7+7 first, maybe that will help. And similarly, 8+7= (1+7)+7=1+(7+7).

[Laura Corin]

I disagree with the HIG. Hobbes has mastered his maths facts slowly, by using them.

 

Best wishes

 

Laura

[TraceyS/FL]

My oldest has some sticking points, i gave her the chart and moved on.

 

However, have you tried the 8+7 is 7+7+1 approach? I actually thought my middle one was going to balk at that, but she is actually able to grasp it. I do have to resort to making her build it with blocks, but with her i'm finding that not pushing them is getting them in there. We use MUS btw, the other 8 trick is the "8 sucks 2 away to be a 10", so maybe something cutesy like that might help? I have to go with the lessons - and then take her lead on what is going to make these stick given all her learning issues.

 

Hang in there!

[lisabees]

Where are all of you learning these tricks? Is there a website that has them? A list somewhere?

 

I checked out Math-It. Almost $80 through Rainbow? Yikes!

 

It would sooooo help ds...

[EKS]

Does he know how to "make a ten"? You know, 6 + 8 = 6 + 4 + 4 = 10 + 4 = 14. You could do it the RightStart way where we know that 5 + 5 = 10 and we want to know how much over 10 6 + 8 is so we think that 6 is 1 over 5 and 8 is 3 over 5 so 1 + 3 = 4 so 6 + 8 = 14.

 

I would give him strategies like that rather than just forcing the memorization.

[8filltheheart]

Where are all of you learning these tricks? Is there a website that has them? A list somewhere?

 

I checked out Math-It. Almost $80 through Rainbow? Yikes!

 

It would sooooo help ds...

 

You can create your own version. Simply create a chart with the numbers 1-20 and color code the numbers and addition fact answers. (for example, 9+9=18, so if your 9+ facts are in blue than make part or all of the number 18 blue (some numbers have more than one math fact giving the answer.....18 doesn't, so it would be all blue).

 

On the flip side, just write the numbers all in black and switch to that side when they are ready to not have the visual help.

 

This website also has lots of the same tricks:

 

http://www.redshift.com/~bonajo/mmathmenu.htm

[kalanamak]

The mumbling kinda makes me thing he may be a whole to parts learner. Try the big picture first.

 

Show him the math facts WITH the answer and drill them like that, then take the answer out.

 

 

Thanks all. I have tried most of what was suggested, but certainly not the above. Sounds interesting. I think he, like me, is a whole to parts learner.

 

And I'll mush on with an addition table next to him (we've made several). And I'll look at the other resources.

 

Ahhh, it looks so easy on paper! Off to work with an extra cup of coffee. Thanks again.

Edited August 19, 2009 by kalanamak
grammar

[lisabees]

You can create your own version. Simply create a chart with the numbers 1-20 and color code the numbers and addition fact answers. (for example, 9+9=18, so if your 9+ facts are in blue than make part or all of the number 18 blue (some numbers have more than one math fact giving the answer.....18 doesn't, so it would be all blue).

 

On the flip side, just write the numbers all in black and switch to that side when they are ready to not have the visual help.

 

This website also has lots of the same tricks:

 

http://www.redshift.com/~bonajo/mmathmenu.htm

 

You're a life saver! Thanks! :)

 

Lisa

[LizzyBee]

Kids for whom the "hard" things are easy and the "easy" things are hard (re: they grasp math concepts easily but can't memorize facts) are usually visual-spatial learners. They will learn the math facts eventually, by using them in context. I agree with giving him a table. Using the table day after day will help. When my VERY vsl didn't quite have her facts down by age 11, we started spending 30 minutes a day on drill, but I wouldn't do that with a young child. I found that she needed to master the facts orally using triangle flash cards that include the entire number bond on the same side of the card before practicing in written form.

 

I know you're not there yet, but Times Tales was fantastic for the multiplication facts. She also uses a multiplication table, and again, just using it day after day has helped her memorize the facts.

[kalanamak]

I disagree with the HIG. Hobbes has mastered his maths facts slowly, by using them.

 

Best wishes

 

Laura

 

So when you got to a problem, such as 287+115, how did you deal with teaching carrying while kiddo was gawking at 7+5?

[lisabees]

Kids for whom the "hard" things are easy and the "easy" things are hard (re: they grasp math concepts easily but can't memorize facts) are usually visual-spatial learners. They will learn the math facts eventually, by using them in context. I agree with giving him a table. Using the table day after day will help. When my VERY vsl didn't quite have her facts down by age 11, we started spending 30 minutes a day on drill, but I wouldn't do that with a young child. I found that she needed to master the facts orally using triangle flash cards that include the entire number bond on the same side of the card before practicing in written form.

 

I know you're not there yet, but Times Tales was fantastic for the multiplication facts. She also uses a multiplication table, and again, just using it day after day has helped her memorize the facts.

 

Lizzybee,

 

How do you use these cards? I have some and just cover up one number and ask for his answer, but it's kind of cumbersome to use that way. I always seem to be revealing the answer as I switch cards!

[LizzyBee]

Lizzybee,

 

How do you use these cards? I have some and just cover up one number and ask for his answer, but it's kind of cumbersome to use that way. I always seem to be revealing the answer as I switch cards!

 

First, I'll have the kids study the cards themselves. It's important for VSL's to see all 3 numbers together. Then when practicing together, I just keep my thumb over the answer and slide out the top card without moving my thumb, to keep the answer on the next card covered. Sometimes my thumb moves too much and dd sees the answer. When that happens, she just says that fact out loud and we move to the next one. Hearing and seeing it together is good practice even though it doesn't let me know if dd knows the fact yet.

[lisabees]

First, I'll have the kids study the cards themselves. It's important for VSL's to see all 3 numbers together. Then when practicing together, I just keep my thumb over the answer and slide out the top card without moving my thumb, to keep the answer on the next card covered. Sometimes my thumb moves too much and dd sees the answer. When that happens, she just says that fact out loud and we move to the next one. Hearing and seeing it together is good practice even though it doesn't let me know if dd knows the fact yet.

 

Thanks you - ds is dyslexic and a visual-spatial learner. We are just beginning this hs journey and it's been amazing getting to know ds as a learner. So many gaps to fill!

[PeterPan]

So when you got to a problem, such as 287+115, how did you deal with teaching carrying while kiddo was gawking at 7+5?

 

Well this is one where I agree with RS. Go all the way up to 4 digit addition. We just did one problem a day of those for ages. I think it took us like two weeks to get through the worksheet for that initial lesson! But at the end, no phobia, no fears, and she was solid on it. Oh, and I'm not averse to bribery. After we got through that initial stage, I made little booklets with the math problems (say 4 multi-digit addition to a page, just little strip booklets) and she got prizes for finding and completing them. They'd be hidden in quirky envelopes that said your mission and that you'd go to the zoo or get a cone or something when you completed the booklet. One morning I woke up and she had done a week's worth of math, fancy that, lol. This the girl who did it starting at *1* problem a day!

 

You WILL get there. My dd can understand the things that make 10, do them quickly in games, then totally blank when she tries to write them. She's just a visual learner. Doing them in context, with a story or grid you color with the answers makes them fun too. That's why we switched to BJU math, btw, because it gave us more of those context elements. I found a series of practice/drill workbooks at the convention this summer, don't have it handy to look up, but they're in that vein too, with problems and grids you fill in to reveal a cool picture. Sounds dorky, but some kids benefit from it. :)

 

Patience. Keep working on it. :)

[Matryoshka]

So when you got to a problem, such as 287+115, how did you deal with teaching carrying while kiddo was gawking at 7+5?

 

I'd just repeat, over and over and over - 7 takes 3 to make a 10, so....

Then they'd count on their fingers. Aaagh! We still managed to work fairly smoothly through the books this way, and somewhere along the way they figured it out - I think it was just doing it over and over. I'm stilll not sure if they're making 10s (8 takes 2, 9 takes 1), or if they finally just memorized it, but they can now do these facts quickly. Probably finally managed it sometime when they were 9 or 10.

 

They didn't have even the teensiest problem doing carrying/borrowing with this issue, unless if you took off points for speed or secret finger use. It was the mental math section in 2B that about killed us, but again, just kept repeating and repeating the 7 takes 3, 8 takes 2, 9 takes 1.

 

For some reason they had a very easy time with doubles plus 1 (or less 1) - so for 5+6, 6+7, 7+8 and 8+9 we'd use that idea instead for those facts. Some kids can also grasp "middle facts" more easily than the "make 10s idea" if they get doubles easiily - 9+7 = 8+8, 6+8= 7+7, 5+7 = 6+6 etc.

[tarana]

Give him an addition table and move on.

 

Seriously, do you really think it will not stick sooner or later? Some kids just have seives for brains when it comes to facts. Do what you can and give it time. Be consistent with doing SOMETHING, but don't be laborious. Test his learning style at http://www.educate.com (free online assessment) and make sure you're practicing in a way that fits his modality.

 

Could you please give the exact web loaction for the Online Assessment test? When I looked around it says I have to set up an appointment with the local center. How does the assessment work?

[stripe]

There are books with tricks for "brain math" and such; these might give you further suggestions for how to put to work for you some of the properties of real numbers, e.g. commutative for addition (a+b=b+a).

[PeterPan]

Click Parent Resources at the homepage of http://www.educate.com and it takes you to this http://tutoring.sylvanlearning.com/parent_learning_resources.cfm From there you see the direct links to learning styles quizzes, behavior quizzes, and other goodies.

[kalanamak]

After my loss of temper on Tuesday, we skipped school yesterday because of heat and mommy-exhaustion. Tonight we sat down and KIDDO KNEW HIS FACTS, and did things like 37-13 in his head. He chirped out all the stupid things I'd said over and over, like: 17-10 is 7, so 17-9 must be 8!

 

If I weren't so giggly over this I'd be peeved.

 

I'm sure we'll have ebbs and flows, but perhaps what PJ O'Rourke once said about showing your child murderous rage every once and a while gets no end of cooperation. (He said it shocked them by being unusual.)

Not that I had murderous rage, but I did slap my hand down on the table, something I have never done in my entire life.

 

Sigh. What am I going to learn from this pip next?

[FO4UR]

You could start somewhere around lesson 100 of MEP year 1. Use that for review while moving forward with Singapore. MEP will spend a whole week on each number (mastering number bonds for the number 15 for example), but the format is quite challenging - I like this better than the IP books fwiw.

[Cindyg]

50 hours of drill later...

 

50 Hours?! You expect him to get it in just 50 hours?! :D

 

I have worked with my son on math facts every day since first grade. We have used every trick, gimmick, gadget, technique, and tool that anyone could think of.

 

He's starting 6th grade pretty soon. And he's just about got it. I'm sure he'll have it soon!

 

Do you want to know what the trick finally was? Yes, of course you do...

 

Just keep at it.

 

You're going to have to drill/practice/illustrate/explain/review (however you want to approach it) every day for years and years. That's not really all that difficult. Just be glad you're home schooling and have the luxury of the time together to work on this.

 

One tip that helped my son: Just do a few facts a week. Do the same facts every day that week. And do all the facts in a family during the same week. In other words, do 5-2=3, 5-3=2, 2+3=5, and 3+2=5. You don't even need to point out that they are basically the same fact. At some point they will start to look familiar to your child. LOL!

 

My son, almost in 6th grade, will still look at a math fact and say, "Have we had this one before?" I'll literally laugh out loud and say, "Just for the past five years or so. They don't make any new math facts!! It's just these same ones over and over and over!" I mean, really, it's funny when you think about it.

 

It will come in time.

[eternalknot]

 

It will come in time.

 

Speaking of, I make good use of my kid's time :D we have a chart of the multiplication table posted just opposite of the toilet, for those "longer visits" ... sometimes it will get him humming one of the math facts songs we listen to on CD, and he won't always realize he is humming it!

 

We have a pretty reliable Retainment Rate for the things we post opposite the toilet LOL.

[Laura Corin]

So when you got to a problem, such as 287+115, how did you deal with teaching carrying while kiddo was gawking at 7+5?

 

When he was doing that as a mental maths problem, he was quite able to do:

 

2+1, three hundred; 8+1, ninety; 7+5 (counts on his fingers) twelve, that makes the ninety one hundred, so that's four hundred and two. Formal carrying on paper would have been similar.

 

Now that he is nine, he is doing daily maths speed practice, which is smoothing over any final issues.

 

Laura

[kalanamak]

When he was doing that as a mental maths problem, he was quite able to do:

 

2+1, three hundred; 8+1, ninety; 7+5 (counts on his fingers) twelve,/QUOTE]

 

Ahhh, my boy thinks counting on fingers is babyish. He's a "mutter-mutter-mutter-guess" (right or wrong) type. If I try to count on my fingers in front of him, he pinches his eyes shut and mutters faster. I note that my father, who used to entertain us by doing mental math ("Daddy, what's 10,364+2559?) would close his eyes and mumble. I blame it on genetics, as my fellow has never seen anyone do this.

[TraceyS/FL]

Ahhh, my boy thinks counting on fingers is babyish. He's a "mutter-mutter-mutter-guess" (right or wrong) type. If I try to count on my fingers in front of him, he pinches his eyes shut and mutters faster. I note that my father, who used to entertain us by doing mental math ("Daddy, what's 10,364+2559?) would close his eyes and mumble. I blame it on genetics, as my fellow has never seen anyone do this.

 

Dontcha just LOVE being able to blame the "good stuff" on genetics?? :tongue_smilie:

 

I love being able to tell DD - hey, it's not my fault, blame grandpa! LOL!!

[MamaReads]

I just want to say thanks for all the mamas who added to this discussion. My dd starts 1st grade work this fall and it is so helpful to see how learning math actually looks for other kids. We are doing a mix of RS & Singapore and I believe they are a good fit for her, but I still wonder about what it should look like in action.

 

-Jesi