A thought on parenting

[Reya]

I'm the first to admit: I'm a "tough" parent, and I've got "tough" kids. (When an experienced mother leaves you a pathetic voicemail asking if you were ever coming back or if you'd run away--as if she wouldn't blame you--after you've been gone just one hour, your baby might just be a leeeeetle high maitenance. We don't dare leave her with a regular babysitter yet because if any child would provoke someone to child abuse, it'd be her. And we've had any number of people fervently agree!)

 

I've also worked with a lot of kids from a lot of backgrounds and have been successful with getting cheerful good behavior from them the majority of the time, too. Even two years ago, I would have said the MOST important things were to be consistent and set high standards.

 

Now, I don't. I'd say those were the second most important thing.

 

Since then, I've worked very closely with some families who wanted parenting advice, and I've decided that the root of most continuing behavior problems is actually a lack of time spent loving a child.

 

I don't mean time spent with a child, nor do I mean the amount of love one feels for a child in a vague sort of way. What I mean is the amount of time spent holding and cuddling a child on his own terms. The spontaneous mutual displays of affection. The child's interests that one devotes one's time to in a direct and loving way. (This doesn't mean school or sports or museums or any particular category. It CAN mean any of these things, depending on the child and the way it's approached. It can also mean none of these things.)

 

I really believe that most of the process of training a child is in loving the child. This should be the constant music of one's relationship. When this is lacking, children cannot be truly cheerful. They cannot be obedient out of a good heart. A child needs to know, above all, in a very IMMEDIATE way that he is loved, not jsut as an abstract but as a reality in every moment of his day.

 

Yes, I'm a spanker. I do timeouts. I have DS write lines and run laps. Some people think this creates an environment of fear. It doesn't. What creates fear is a child's uncertainty of his parents' continuing love for him, even if a parent never raises a hand or a voice.

 

I love my kids so much that I don't worry whether my kids will like me; I worry whether they will be good people. This comes through, I think. For me, love and showing love has been so constant that I scarcely even think of it. We tell each other that we love each other a dozen times a day, at least. We hug and kiss like we breathe. I'd never emphasized the importance of it because I didn't realize how many families DON'T have this.

 

This came back to me today because my DS is back from two weeks of being spoiled rotten by my in-laws. ("Well, he didn't want to do it, and we want him to like us, so we didn't make him" I think sums it up, if you add about $150 of various presents of toys, clothes, etc., on top of that.) It's the longest we've been apart, so I'm kind of rediscovering things about him that I knew but didn't REALLY know before.

 

Now, even with a bit of spoiling, he is really a joy to be around. That's one of the things people have told me for about three years now, and I think I'm just getting what they mean because of how used to him I am. He exudes joy and abounds with love--for his family, for his friends, for strangers. He is the PERFECT brother. I didn't know sibling relationships like this could be real before! He is almost always the best behaved child in a group--one of the most attentive, too, despite his moderate ADD. He's usually willing to follow his friends' interests and not just manipulate them into doing what he wants. He has his days and is as stubborn as a whole mule train, but he's becoming what I've always wanted, more than anything: a good kid. Cheerful, kind, compassionate, thoughtful

 

You're probably thinking that he's just born that way. Some kids are "easy." But this was a kid who used to be the second worst in every class--by DESIGN, as he would carefully judge the behavior of the worst kid and act just enough better than that him so he wouldn't get yelled at. He tricked a friend of mine into believing that he couldn't talk for SIX MONTHS at the age of three because he pegged her as a soft touch for "babies." (He was right....) He played ringmaster in the K class he was in at three and had half the class at his beck and call, including the teachers. He would play stupid to such an extent that I didn't know that he knew his colors until he was four, just because he didn't like showing what he knew. He'd secretly incite others to misbehavior in groups. Oh, and you know the kid who would blurt out the incredibly inappropriate thing when the pastor calls all the kids up to the front on special days? Yeah. He used to be mine. The one big thing he never did was hit. Other than that, he had a lot of things that could have made him, in other circumstances, into a really creepy and unpleasant kid. Now, he's the kid every parent marvels about.

 

I'm watching the same change in my daughter already. She's a tough one, tougher than DS, and I got plenty of admiration for being able to handle him. She'd pinch people on purpose and laugh when they yelled--would pull hair and even started pitching real fits, among a number of other things. But already, she's picking up on the joy. She kisses for "thank you" when you do sometihng she likes. She hugs, claps, and pats spontaneously, not just because you're funny but because she has affection for you and is happy to see you. She's gone from deliberate, in-your-face defiance of instruction through sneaky disobediance and screaming mostly obediance to disappointed mostly obediance--and this is HUGE. (Which means she can play outside since she can now obey "NO EAT!" for ten minutes at a time! Yay!)

 

I've real a lot of parenting books, and what I've found most disturbing are those that make babies and small children seem malicious, full of evil that must be stopped at all costs. Yes, I am Christian. Yes, I believe in sin nature. But sinners find God through love, not through punishment. Punishment draws attention to sin.

 

****ation is the wages of sin ***in the absence of grace.*** We must be the vehicles for grace in our families. If a baby has a sin nature, it is foolish of us to expect it to behave any way but selfishly. Maliciousness requires far too much self-analysis. There is no dread, evil baby plan of destruction. Babies behave selfishly because that is all they know. Plenty must be taught that hurting people isn't funny, that obediance is required (not jsut requested), that anger isn't so necessary. All these things are taught primarily through love--while meeting a child's needs so fully that the child begins to understand and feel love, too. This develops the sense of compassion that is called charity in your Old King James Bibles--the greatest of the virtues, the one that makes all others possible. It is only through senses of loving compassion and justice that children learn to behave apart from fear.

 

And children can only learn love by being loved--abundantly--themselves.

[Pamela H in Texas]

:)

 

Reya, you are absolutely right. I think that the world has just gotten so busy that so many parents fail to find those "cuddle times" and the QUANTITY of time necessary. The "And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up" requires TIME...but like you said, not just time. But MINDFUL time.

 

I do think the recent threads have put too much of a spotlight on punishment. The majority of us discipline (teach/guide) along the way. Even parents who think discipline means punish, do PLENTY of guiding, teaching, helping, coaching, preventing, supervising, etc. And no doubt a lot of us are doing as Zig Ziglar said, spending a quantity of quality time with our kids. It helps that we homeschool, I'm sure. But even as homeschoolers, I think we probably need to be mindful about doing it.

 

Anyway, love oozes from your post. :)

[springmama]

This made me cry!!! Thanks so much for the reminder.

 

I don't have a hard time with this with my little ones, but let me tell you my teenager.....oh man, there are times I just want to run away from her. She can be so argumentative and so hormonal I just don't want to deal with her.

 

Lately though...she's been stopping me from getting up to leave the room when she wants to spend time with me. For instance, she got up out of bed a few days ago and came to the living room where I was nursing the baby and watching a bit of tv. We talked a bit about the show I was watching and then the baby was finished and I started walking to the bathroom to clean it.

 

She stopped me and said "Can't you just stay in here and watch tv with me?"

 

I was a little shocked. This is a child who acts as if she hates me. In her eyes, I'm weird, overprotective, embarrassing, annoying and mean.

 

Our relationship is rocky at best. This is a child who argues everything. I could comment on the rain and she'd say "It's NOt raining! It's sunny."

 

So, to have her request to spend time with me really meant something and since then, I wonder how many times I get up to do a chore or go out to the store when she's thinking to herself "I wish mom would stay here"

 

Now, the struggle I have is how to give her the time she needs without going insane. When I say she argues, I mean she really argues about everything. Yesterday on the way home from picking her up from a friend's house, I stopped at Walmart. She wasn't cool with that and threw a mini temper tantrum in the car because I wanted to run into the store and not go straight home. Then she spent the entire drive home complaining how miserable her life is (after having just spent the 4th with a pretty awesome family at their lake house jet skiing and watching the fireworks from a boat)

 

Spending time with her can be exhausting, because I'm constantly needing to either ignore or correct her undesirable behavior, but in the back of my head I do know that if I can get through all of that and spend more time with her then the drama will probably end because she'll be a happier child.

[Free Indeed]

Great post. I agree wholeheartedly. Tying heart strings is very important.

[Reya]

One thing that's really artificial at first but can help change the tone of a relationship is to track how many positive versus negative things you've said and make sure you was 5 pluses for every minus, at least. It worked for me during a rough patch in our marriage, and believe it or not, saying nice things makes you think them, too. :-)

 

(Honestly, it's a good thing DH & I are married to one another. I don't know who else would put up with us! :-P )

[Reya]

Oh, and teenagers can still snuggle. :-) My 50-something mom still pulls me onto her lap! With the baby in mine, no less!

 

I think it's something you can learn not to get out of the habit of. People need touch, I believe, and I think SOME parts of teenager-ness comes from the desire not to "be a baby" anymore while still needing human contact. So if she lets you, you can snuggle her when she watches TV or reads or something. Even back-petting and/or head-scratching count.

 

(I'm writing this while snuggling a sleeping kiddo who got up at 8AM and needed snuggles from a backlog of being away. :-) )

[jenadina]

This was a message I really needed to hear today.

[Nakia]

What a beautiful post, Reya. I agree with every bit of it. Thank you!!

[Radish4ever]

:) Agreed!

[Sparkle]

Beautifully, eloquently said! This post is a keeper :grouphug:

[gr8tcook]

So...help me love my ds 11...he is a confrontation waiting to happen always has been. lately I don't want to be near him. I have often thought that he was secretly doing the worst things he could think of while asking "do you love me now" taking it further and further away to "make sure" I love him. Scary thing for me is I am becoming indifferent. (wow I actually said that) Our relationship is one big standoff all the time. I have lost touch with how to communicate love to him. Thankyou for your heartfelt observation. (he won't let me hug him, kisses are out and high fives are ignored, don't mess up my hair mom ect)

[Kfamily]

This is how I feel too!

 

I learned with my first dd that one of the best ways to help her deal with lots of stimulation (family in town and over all day&night, etc.) was to leave the room and sit quietly for awhile together. I could always hear in her voice when she was reaching her limit. It isn't always the easiest or most convenient thing for me to do (I had to leave the interesting adult conversation behind) but I knew it would help me in the long run. I would take dd back to our room or her room and shut the door. We would often sit in a rocking chair or on the bed and sit quietly for awhile. Then I would wait for her. She always let me know when she was ready. She started talking to me. After awhile she had regained herself and was ready to face others again. This worked well for me because this often happened around 4ish and if we did not do this then dinner would be misery and still worse as the night progressed. This recharged her and allowed us to have a more pleasant evening. I also tried to remember that simple things, like making sure she had my attention as well as the adults, would make a big difference. My dh or I would take turns coloring pictures or playing tic-tac-toe when eating out. I do the same thing with my younger dd (6) and it has always worked with her too.

 

I also still spend time with both girls at night. It takes a long time to put my girls to bed. Longer than many would be willing to do. My dh is part of this routine and it is very important to all of us. We read together (all of us) and then dh says good night to both girls. I stay behind and sit with and cuddle each girl in their bed separately. Even my 12 year old values this time. I take advantage of it by asking about things that went on that day and, most importantly, to find several things to complement them on. Maybe dd (12) was very patient with younger sister or dd (6) handled a let-down with grace and love. I try to make a point to say how much I love them and what I noticed that they had handled well for the day.

Edited July 6, 2009 by Kfamily

[Ruby]

"I don't have a hard time with this with my little ones, but let me tell you my teenager.....oh man, there are times I just want to run away from her. She can be so argumentative and so hormonal I just don't want to deal with her." SORRY THIS WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A QUOTE

 

Wow! How did my daughter end up at your house.

 

 

Thanks for the post. Sometimes something so simple is so easily overlooked and put on the back burner. Looks like I'll be figuring out how to spend more time with each of my kiddos.

[elise1mds]

It's so true! One of the mentors at a MOPS group that I attended for a while put it this way... "To really love a kid, you have to sit down on the inside." They know when you're not really there for them! Thanks for sharing.

[mcconnellboys]

I very much enjoyed reading this, thank you. We are talking about agape love in some of my groups right now and I marvel constantly at the magic of it. I think it is one of the Nag Hammadi texts (the book of Thomas, perhaps), which says we might have the keys to the kingdom even while on earth if we could but see the treasure in front of our eyes and unlock it. I've always believed this treasure is agape love. Sometimes - no, often - it is so very difficult to implement, but so necessary to everything....

[Mabeline]

Thank you. I have been going through a rough patch with my 7 yo. I need to remember to love on him more, he really seems to respond positively when i have time to just be with him. Thanks.

[Loupelou]

Thanks for a great post. Although I do not believe that children come with sin or are sinners in any sense I do know that they exude love, they are love, and they need it back from us, oh so much.:D

[Spy Car]

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[Pamela H in Texas]

Gr8tcook,

 

It is important not to expect perfect. Sometimes I'll start an activity, excited to invite kiddo to join, and they'll think it so horrible because X, Y, and Z. But we push through and though maybe parts of it are miserable, we're still shoulder to shoulder doing it.

 

So you need the garden weeded and do it together. You have to tear down a structure on your land together. You set up a project for the littles together. You make a dessert for a covered dish get-together. You work together at the food bank.

 

And what about things that he really enjoys? Can you get into that? I couldn't care much less about StarWars, but I enjoyed (minus the stupid wheel chair) going to the starwars museum exhibit with my kids. Going on a shopping trip for a special item related to what he likes will help. Maybe he wants his room painted a new color so you get to work out colors as well as paint together.

 

Does he have a fave game even if it's on the Nintendo or a MP online game? Do y'all watch movies together? Those sorts of things? Don't try to act 11, of course, but I tell ya, my kids LOVED it when I played Puzzle Pirates with them. And my daughter and I "poke" each other on FaceBook a few times a day.

 

My son is SO much easier as a teen, btw. But one thing I was really glad I did when he was 11 was to give him MORE opportunity. Sometimes we moms think they need to show more maturity before getting more opportunity. For preteens, the best thing is often to give them greater responsibility and opportunity and let them step up to the plate. Doing so says, I see you're growing up; I know you are capable; I trust you... Looking on admirably/proudly really makes a difference too.

 

Some kids just are tougher. Sometimes it's very temporary and sometimes it's a bit more. But your trying really makes a LOT of difference even if it doesn't seem like it.

[Nakia]

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[Nicole M]

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[Ruby]

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[Nakia]

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[Garga]

It's the same in my house. The more time I spend cuddling and loving them, the better they are.

[Peek a Boo]

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[ekarl2]

If a baby has a sin nature, it is foolish of us to expect it to behave any way but selfishly. Maliciousness requires far too much self-analysis. There is no dread, evil baby plan of destruction. Babies behave selfishly because that is all they know.

 

I believe this is more popularly known as "original sin." Repugnant or not, all Reya is saying is that humans are not perfect. We are inherently selfish, self-centered creatures. Otherwise we would exit the womb knowing how to take turns, share, offer the last of something to a guest, etc.

 

I think many people find the word sin scary. It's really not. It's just the breaking of moral rules. Children have to be taught. There are many ways to do it. Many people are capable of doing it without ever touching a child negatively. That's great. Some can't, and (for many) that's okay, too.

 

If we entered the world perfect, there'd be nothing for parents to do, right? So if you automatically look at the idea of a naturally sinful child as repugnant or off-putting, just try to see the term for what it is. It is those children whose parents DON'T train their children out of bad habits (interrupting, hitting, back-talk, etc.) who will grow up to be continually sinful in their actions.

 

Whether you spank or not is a completely separate issue. There are plenty who beleive in original sin who would atest to never swatting or spanking their children.

 

If you spend your child's early years teaching and training them how to live with other and not to focus on themselves, then by default you are accepting they don't enter this world perfect. That's all ...

[Peek a Boo]

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[Spy Car]

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[nova mama]

If this were Facebook, I'd give you a "Like." Thank you for the post.

[Pamela H in Texas]

So did this thread turn just in order to help me write my paper (ethical egoism and psychological egoism)?

 

Weird. :leaving:

[Kfamily]

Wow!

 

I thought I was responding to the OP's idea that children sometimes just need more love and that misbehaviors often result from feeling as if they aren't receiving enough (not in general-just at that moment). Please remember, in a long post, that some people are responding to particular aspects of it and not necessarily to every word written in the post.

Edited July 7, 2009 by Kfamily

[Nicole M]

I'm not sure what you mean. I think Reya was 100% serious in her post.

 

Oh, I know she is serious. And I agree with a few of her insights. But after reading this thread:

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88437&highlight=ria+reya

 

I am very leery of her.

[5kidsforME]

I'm not sure what you mean. I think Reya was 100% serious in her post.

 

She has taken a long break from the GB board at least. Read some of her previous posts. :tongue_smilie:

[Hillary in KS]

She has taken a long break from the GB board at least. Read some of her previous posts. :tongue_smilie:

 

Yes. You kind of need to read some of her previous posts.

 

Additionally, I tend to take parenting advice from people who have older children. If your oldest child is 6 (as, I believe, the OP's son is), I'm not going to give your parenting opinions as much weight as a poster who has adult children. Or even children in your late teens.

 

I'm of the "wait and see whether your parenting philosophy really works before you offer words of wisdom" school of thought.

[Avila]

Maybe it is because I have read her previous posts, but I am not getting the love. I am getting the self-serving, pat me on the back because I have done everything right and now have perfect kids vibe. OR the I am a professional writer and want to provoke a response from you vibe. Sorry to be so cynical.