yet another honesty question...nursing homes

[Tree House Academy]

My grandfather's nursing home had separate "wings" for private pay and Medicaid patients. The private pay wing had private rooms, carpet, more nursing assistants, etc. The Medicaid wing had 2 people per room, no carpet, and it was seriously understaffed. My grandfather needed round the clock care because of his dementia, and was in a nursing home for 10 years. In his case, he had retired from 2 jobs (so had 2 pensions) and his SS that paid for his care ($5K per month.) My grandmother had SS. Before he went in the home, they sold their house and land that they had lived on for 25+ years, bought a much smaller house with no land, and put the rest in the bank. The interest on that money contributed to my grandmother's budget as well.

 

She is buying into a retirement community because many of her long-time friends are there (it is associated with her denomination.) She will sell her house to buy in (about equal.) Then she will pay $3K per month (about what the one pension she has left from my grandfather the SS she is receiving now.) This community promises to care for you even if you run out of money.

 

This whole story breaks my heart for your grandma. I am glad she has found a place that will care for her if she does run out of funds. It is just so sad to see what she had to give up, let go, and sell only to make ends meet so your grandpa could have the kind of care that ALL elderly people deserve in their last years. :crying:

[stripe]

I think it's sad that people have to liquidate their assets in order to get basic medical care, or that paying for basic health care liquidates people's assets all on its own. I think there are many many problems, including the problem of why so many elderly people are put in run-down nursing homes, never or rarely visited, and left to die by themselves (including some gems of comments I've made about how people can't stand to visit granny because she's not herself, etc etc), and I must also confess not knowing why so many online discussions are about "would you do X in Y hypothetical," which leads to a bunch of judgments and accusations being made.

[TammyinTN]

After having to watch my adopted Grandparents live out the rest of their lives in a nursing home we have decided to take care of both sets of parents should the need arise. We plan on having a big enough house to accomodate them and any special needs. We plan on having help and paying for it. I just could never bare the thought of them being in there, no matter how great the place was.

[Sara R]

But you do know that our tax money isn't paying for it, right? Our deficits are huge, and Medicare spending is also huge. The Chinese are the ones financing our deficits now. The Medicare problem is 5 times bigger than Social Security, and Social Security looks like it is going to run out of money and start depending on the imaginary "trust fund" in the next couple of years. And of course tax receipts are going down because of the recession. Government spending has to contract further to reflect that.

 

Our current methods of taking care of the elderly in this country are unsustainable. I don't know what it's going to look like in 5-10 years, but I don't see how we can continue on the path that we're on.

[brehon]

Ok, I've worked in nursing homes/Long Term Care facilities. Let me explain to you what that $5,000 a month gets you.

 

One bath a week.

3 meals a day...if you like whats being served. Your other option is a sandwich.

A room, shared. A dresser. A closet. A bathroom.

If you're unable to manage your own tolieting, you'll have your needs tended to approx 8x a day. And that's in a good facility. I've known others that you get changed maybe 5.

Meds given out. You're not allowed to have ANY of your own.

No privacy at all.

Constant supervision, checking in...why, its like being a child again, only you have no hope of escape!

 

That's what your $5,000 a month gets you. And if you're really lucky, you get a staff member like me, who treats you like a human being, talks to you about your late spouse, your children, grand children, your growing up, sibs, parents, grandparents, laughs at your funny stories, cries at the anniversary of your husband's death, weeps with you at the anniversary that your son died in a place whose name you can't even pronounce, who cares. You'll look forward to the shifts when me or someone like me is there. You'll tolerate, even dread the shifts where the others are there, the ones that view you with contempt, contempt for your failing body, your wrinkled skin, your shaky limbs and foggy memory, who are impatient with your hesitating movements and roughly pull your clothes off you and leave you standing there, stripped not only of your clothes, but your dignity and humanity as well, and as they pass the rough face cloth over you, you close your eyes and remember another time where you stood naked, and your husband's eyes looked at you with love, instead of the contempt in this young woman's eyes in front of you as she manhandles you into a hospital gown, guides you into bed, and shuts off your light. You lay there, staring at the ceiling, wishing that you were with your husband, knowing that each day will be a repeat of today, being treated and guided like a child, shoved into bed at barely 7 pm, no rights, no dignity, no options.

 

And paying $5,000 for the priviledge.

 

And lets rip away the heritage of the family as well now too, shall we, by demanding that land thats been in the family for generations be sold to support this sort of care. Its insanity that its $5000. Complete, total, and utter. Its ONLY $5000 when its privately paid, that's the thing. The price drops dramatically when its paid for by anyone BUT the private individual. I know that for a fact here. Its double or triple the cost here if someone's paying out of pocket vs if its paid for by the province. Its flat out robbery.

 

 

 

I haven't waded through all 11 pages yet, but this reply stood out for me. I agree with *everything* written here. I don't live in Canada, but the same conditions apply.

 

In my response district, there are 3 nursing/Alzheimer's homes and 2 senior apartment complexes. I respond to the apartment complexes more often than the nursing homes. Why? Because many of the people living in the senior apt homes do so because it is an order of magnitude cheaper to live there than to live in a nursing home. And, trust me on this, most of the people living in the apartments NEED to live in either nursing homes or assisted living centers. However, I completely understand their reluctance to live in nursing homes -- it's too expensive and the "benefits" they receive leave a lot to be desired.

 

My partner and I are continually horrified by the conditions of the nursing homes (and know that I'm not talking about criminal conditions like one might see on a Dateline expose). The residents are treated worse than children; they are afforded no dignity. It's as if by entering the nursing home they gave up their "right" to human decency.

 

I don't know what the answer is. There are myriad reasons for the expense of nursing homes and I don't think there is only one easy answer that will be THE cure-all for the problems. Frankly, I don't know why anyone would choose to live in a nursing home/assisted living center. And, I know, my perspective is probably skewed by my professional experiences. Intellectually I understand that there are well run, financially stable places with truly caring staffs. I suspect these are private facilities which are *very* expensive to live in and therefore not available to most people, financially speaking.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

By TreeHouse Academy I stand behind what I said. I think that this country, as a whole, should be willing to care for our elderly and not try to take all they have at the end of their lives. My tax money will pay for whoever's mom or dad needs it, and yours should do the same. I just think it is a sad, sick shame that people who live their entire lives working hard for what they have should have it taken away in the end.

 

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

I think our society should take care of those in true need:) I believe that medicare and social security are successes. The main problem they face now is all of the years that our goverment borrowed against social security to finance other things. IMHO, I also have read that the way the prescription drug portion of medicare was implemented gave favorable treatment to the drug companies:confused: This kow-towing to the drug companies has added greatly to the costs of medicare. I think a better solution is to look at reforms to help these critical safety nets since I believe that the over-whelming majority of Americans will be in a pickle without them. I know that they have been a God-send for my parents. I also know of others who are at retirement age whose life-savings have been decimated in 401k's, etc.

 

And, of course, I also strongly believe that all of us should do our best to take care of ourselves, be frugal, and save:)

[Renee in NC]

This whole story breaks my heart for your grandma. I am glad she has found a place that will care for her if she does run out of funds. It is just so sad to see what she had to give up, let go, and sell only to make ends meet so your grandpa could have the kind of care that ALL elderly people deserve in their last years. :crying:

 

I didn't post it so you would feel sorry for her - she doesn't feel sorry for herself at all. I guess I didn't come across right!

 

I know she is glad that my grandfather planned for all of this. She used to worry she was going to run out of money, but she does have 5 children and they would either care for her in their homes or pay for her to be where she wants to be.

 

Her dc are fully aware that all of her money may be gone when she dies. She could live with one of them and then the money would be left, but that isn't what *she* wants. She wants to be near her friends, able to go to her church, etc.

 

I am thankful they *had* assets they could sell to provide them with the money they needed to give my grandfather good care and my grandmother could have the lifestyle she wanted. They worked hard and saved and invested so that they could.

 

For those who don't have the assets, I worry about the future. Gov't owned and run nursing homes don't seem like the answer, but the costs are insane for those who can't be cared for at home.

[TravelingChris]

In many places I lived, we have visited nursing homes and assisted living facilities. Normally the groups I was in (homeschoolers, church groups, choirs, Scouts, etc) visited the ones where the people were pay patients. How do I know- because my bil has spent the last 27 years in a medicaid facility. There simply is no comparison. It has spurned me on to make sure we have enough money to put me in a assisted living facility when I will need one. (I am arthritic and asthmatic and many of those in those places have similar type problems). Many of the pay assisted living facilities have nursing homes attached to them. The few medicaid facilities I visited are not anywhere I would like to end up. I wouldn't think you would want anyone there either. Now my son was hospitalized for major depression last year and I ws very surprised to find a lot of elderly people there. THey are kicked out of nursing homes and will never return. If you turn violent or otherwise problematic at a nursing home, off you go to a mental helath facility for the end of your days. The depressives would end up leaving after their medications got stable, the schizophrenics ended up transferred to long term facilities if they didn't get stable, the elderly dementia patients can't be transferred since they are not mentally ill but they are neurologically diminished. They were their longterm unless a family member rescued them. One nice but confused lady was in the facility due to predatory behavior by her kids. They were trying to find a facility that would take her but keep her away from her abusive children. It was very sad.

[Impish]

In many places I lived, we have visited nursing homes and assisted living facilities. Normally the groups I was in (homeschoolers, church groups, choirs, Scouts, etc) visited the ones where the people were pay patients. How do I know- because my bil has spent the last 27 years in a medicaid facility. There simply is no comparison. It has spurned me on to make sure we have enough money to put me in a assisted living facility when I will need one. (I am arthritic and asthmatic and many of those in those places have similar type problems). Many of the pay assisted living facilities have nursing homes attached to them. The few medicaid facilities I visited are not anywhere I would like to end up. I wouldn't think you would want anyone there either. Now my son was hospitalized for major depression last year and I ws very surprised to find a lot of elderly people there. THey are kicked out of nursing homes and will never return. If you turn violent or otherwise problematic at a nursing home, off you go to a mental helath facility for the end of your days. The depressives would end up leaving after their medications got stable, the schizophrenics ended up transferred to long term facilities if they didn't get stable, the elderly dementia patients can't be transferred since they are not mentally ill but they are neurologically diminished. They were their longterm unless a family member rescued them. One nice but confused lady was in the facility due to predatory behavior by her kids. They were trying to find a facility that would take her but keep her away from her abusive children. It was very sad.

Yes, that can happen, here in Canada too. The issue is, staff. The staff in nursing homes are not equipped to deal with violent residents to that degree, there aren't enough staff to manage seriously violent residents, and nursing homes are severely restricted as to what they are allowed to do in terms of restraints (physical and chemical) to control a resident's behaviour.

 

Its about protecting the staff, and other residents. If my work had actually DONE something about one particular resident, who although isn't mentally capable of forming intent but lashes out physically nonetheless, I wouldn't be disabled for the rest of my life.

 

And the resident is still there, at the same facility, despite having injured staff before and after me. I'm the only one with a lifetime disability though. Others have only had broken fingers, scratched corneas, bruises, etc.

 

And in Canada, workers are NOT allowed to sue employers. I've already checked.

[amy g.]

We have been very fortunate to have avoided nursing homes, in my family. When my maternal grandmother started having health problems, one of her divorced daughters moved in with her. She was able to stay in her own home close to her friends and family.

 

My paternal grandmother just passed away, last year at the age of 99. She lived her last 15 years with one of her widowed sons. This allowed her to have loving care, and still leave a large inheritance to her 4 children, and 13 grandchildren.

 

Unfortunately, one of the grandchildren, who has never worked or had insurance was scheduled to have a $5.00 charity operation. She hid her inheritance in a safety deposit box rather than pay for her own care, even though she could have paid for her surgery, and had money left over. She does not see how this took an opportunity away from someone less fortunate.

 

My husband's grandmother gave my mother-in-law all of her money so she would not have to spend it on a nursing home. My MIL had a very difficult time with this because it felt so wrong to her, but she believed it was her duty to honor her mother's wishes.

 

My MIL raised 8 children in a two bedroom, one bathroom house. She has saved all of her life for her old age, even putting 1/2 of her SS check in savings all of these years. She has not had to spend her savings, because her youngest son never married, and has stayed home and taken care of her. She has another son who lives down the street. She has had such a blessed old age being cared for, in her own home by people who love her so much. When she dies, we will give Dh's share of the inheritance to the son who has taken care of her. Without his sacrifice, there would be no inheritance for any of the children. We are trying to petition the other siblings to give that son the house as well as his share of the inheritance. All of the other children own other homes, but I doubt they will all agree.

 

My dad is quickly nearing the time when he will need more care. His plan is to buy a house on a property adjoining ours. We have told him that we can have a bedroom and bathroom in out house ready for him with two days notice. we'll have to see what he ends up being the most comfortable with.

 

We have been lucky because none of our family members have had dangerous issues. I did not say all of this to imply that other families should all care for their own elderly regardless of the consequences. I just feel like if we had taken advantage of loopholes to get government care when it wasn't truly NEEDED it would have contributed to the overload of the system, and taken care away from families that are truly in need. There is a finite amount of money and resources. You can't take more than you truly need without hurting other people. I think we are all willing to pay for the care of elderly who have no other options.

[Nestof3]

My sister-in-law would like my in-laws to do this, but my husband is not for it. Sure, he doesn't want to see his inheritance swept away, but he also does not see that the taxpayers should pick up the burden.

 

We've tried to get them to move down here, but they won't.

[Nestof3]

When you have a $200,000 asset, you are not in need. The money is there. The greed comes from the fact that the children are expecting something handed down to them, and they'd rather the taxpayers pick up the tab.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

I think our society should take care of those in true need:) I believe that medicare and social security are successes. The main problem they face now is all of the years that our goverment borrowed against social security to finance other things. IMHO, I also have read that the way the prescription drug portion of medicare was implemented gave favorable treatment to the drug companies:confused: This kow-towing to the drug companies has added greatly to the costs of medicare. I think a better solution is to look at reforms to help these critical safety nets since I believe that the over-whelming majority of Americans will be in a pickle without them. I know that they have been a God-send for my parents. I also know of others who are at retirement age whose life-savings have been decimated in 401k's, etc.

 

And, of course, I also strongly believe that all of us should do our best to take care of ourselves, be frugal, and save:)

[Tree House Academy]

When you have a $200,000 asset, you are not in need. The money is there. The greed comes from the fact that the children are expecting something handed down to them, and they'd rather the taxpayers pick up the tab.

 

You all are so focused on this "kids expect things to be handed down" crap that you are not listening to the point being made. My husband did not expect inheritance. His grandfather wanted this. It was his dream - he prepared a place for his kids, their kids, and their kids kids. He planned for it all along. It is not greed - it is family preservation. I could care less about money. My mom has a house and a car worth approximately nothing. She makes it month to month, but do I want her special items sold off to pay for her care? NO! I want them passed down so my kids will remember their grandma and my kids kids will get to know her in some small way. It is not greed.

 

And my mom paid her taxes. No one is asking "taxpayers to foot the bill" - what a narrowminded thought process we have here. I'd call THAT greed. God forbid that tax dollars help the elderly. Oh no, we would much rather support public schools, right? Your money goes to support that even though your kids aren't in that school. D*mn selfish parents who put their kids in school and let the "taxpayers foot the bill." :banghead:

[Ibbygirl]

Ok, I've worked in nursing homes/Long Term Care facilities. Let me explain to you what that $5,000 a month gets you.

 

One bath a week.

3 meals a day...if you like whats being served. Your other option is a sandwich.

A room, shared. A dresser. A closet. A bathroom.

If you're unable to manage your own tolieting, you'll have your needs tended to approx 8x a day. And that's in a good facility. I've known others that you get changed maybe 5.

Meds given out. You're not allowed to have ANY of your own.

No privacy at all.

Constant supervision, checking in...why, its like being a child again, only you have no hope of escape!

 

That's what your $5,000 a month gets you. And if you're really lucky, you get a staff member like me, who treats you like a human being, talks to you about your late spouse, your children, grand children, your growing up, sibs, parents, grandparents, laughs at your funny stories, cries at the anniversary of your husband's death, weeps with you at the anniversary that your son died in a place whose name you can't even pronounce, who cares. You'll look forward to the shifts when me or someone like me is there. You'll tolerate, even dread the shifts where the others are there, the ones that view you with contempt, contempt for your failing body, your wrinkled skin, your shaky limbs and foggy memory, who are impatient with your hesitating movements and roughly pull your clothes off you and leave you standing there, stripped not only of your clothes, but your dignity and humanity as well, and as they pass the rough face cloth over you, you close your eyes and remember another time where you stood naked, and your husband's eyes looked at you with love, instead of the contempt in this young woman's eyes in front of you as she manhandles you into a hospital gown, guides you into bed, and shuts off your light. You lay there, staring at the ceiling, wishing that you were with your husband, knowing that each day will be a repeat of today, being treated and guided like a child, shoved into bed at barely 7 pm, no rights, no dignity, no options.

 

And paying $5,000 for the priviledge.

 

And lets rip away the heritage of the family as well now too, shall we, by demanding that land thats been in the family for generations be sold to support this sort of care. Its insanity that its $5000. Complete, total, and utter. Its ONLY $5000 when its privately paid, that's the thing. The price drops dramatically when its paid for by anyone BUT the private individual. I know that for a fact here. Its double or triple the cost here if someone's paying out of pocket vs if its paid for by the province. Its flat out robbery.

 

 

Oh my!! I don't know how I missed this the first time around but this is truly heartbreaking!! It brings tears to my eyes.

 

Impish, may I ask since you are one who has worked in these facitilies, why are the other staff so unkind to the residents?? I mean, why do they choose this line of work if they have no heart for the elderly and if they don't have patience for their frailties or maybe more importantly, how do they even get hired for these types of positions if they have no heart for the people they will be caring for?? Does nobody really even care about these poor people besides the few like yourself??

 

Oh this thread is heartbreakingly sad. I realize that there are some things that are beyond all control, but I take this thread also as a precautionary warning to take the best care of myself now so that hopefully I won't be in a position like this in the future.

[Sara R]

Again, federal tax dollars don't fully pay for this. Our country is overwhelmingly huge amounts of debt, and our federal budget is being financed by bonds purchased by the Chinese. (Links provided upon request.) Taking care of the elderly with tax dollars would be a discussion worth having if we could afford it. We can't.

[Impish]

You all are so focused on this "kids expect things to be handed down" crap that you are not listening to the point being made. My husband did not expect inheritance. His grandfather wanted this. It was his dream - he prepared a place for his kids, their kids, and their kids kids. He planned for it all along. It is not greed - it is family preservation. I could care less about money. My mom has a house and a car worth approximately nothing. She makes it month to month, but do I want her special items sold off to pay for her care? NO! I want them passed down so my kids will remember their grandma and my kids kids will get to know her in some small way. It is not greed.

 

And my mom paid her taxes. No one is asking "taxpayers to foot the bill" - what a narrowminded thought process we have here. I'd call THAT greed. God forbid that tax dollars help the elderly. Oh no, we would much rather support public schools, right? Your money goes to support that even though your kids aren't in that school. D*mn selfish parents who put their kids in school and let the "taxpayers foot the bill." :banghead:

:iagree:I think many are missing this point. Why are the elderly expected to be stripped of EVERYTHING in order to pay for their care, and leave absolutely NOTHING to their loved ones? No special heirloom dishes, furniture, etc...stuff that has been preserved for GENERATIONS, lovingly passed down from one to another, seized by greedy, grasping bureaucrats and accountants and auctioned for another month of care...if that.

 

Only the elderly, disabled and ill are taken advantage of in such a manner...and its considered acceptable. And, I'm afraid, its a uniquely American situation, as its honestly *not* something that I'm aware of happening in Canada, because of our national health care system. Facilities can NOT force the sale of a home, of property. Simply cannot happen here. Once the money is gone, that's it, it morphs into subsidy based on Canada Pension, period.

 

My Nan was in a nursing home. She had Dementia/Alzheimer's. She had enough money to support herself if she had lived to be in her 100s. She had made arrangements years before so that her cottage was already in the hands of her 4 sons. Her home was sold and the money from that was in the trust of my dad and a lawyer. Her other 3 sons carped and moaned that the nursing home was too much money. They didn't want their inheritance spent. They expected my parents to care for her. Meanwhile, my mother has a cane, and my father has bulging discs in his spine and can barely manage to walk the main floor of his own home. But the other 3 boys didn't want 'their' money spent. Not that any of them ever visited her or any thing. :cursing:

 

I've seen it all, when it comes to nursing homes.

[Nestof3]

You all are so focused on this "kids expect things to be handed down" crap that you are not listening to the point being made. My husband did not expect inheritance. His grandfather wanted this. It was his dream - he prepared a place for his kids, their kids, and their kids kids. He planned for it all along. It is not greed - it is family preservation. I could care less about money. My mom has a house and a car worth approximately nothing. She makes it month to month, but do I want her special items sold off to pay for her care? NO! I want them passed down so my kids will remember their grandma and my kids kids will get to know her in some small way. It is not greed.

 

And my mom paid her taxes. No one is asking "taxpayers to foot the bill" - what a narrowminded thought process we have here. I'd call THAT greed. God forbid that tax dollars help the elderly. Oh no, we would much rather support public schools, right? Your money goes to support that even though your kids aren't in that school. D*mn selfish parents who put their kids in school and let the "taxpayers foot the bill." :banghead:

 

We're not discussing a few little mementos. We're discussing property.

 

You're also assuming I am a big fan of public education. I actually view it as a social program as well.

 

It's not greed to expect a person to pay for their own medical care if they can afford it. The answer is always "let the gov't pay for it." Have you not noticed that the gov't is paying so much that it's out of control? It seems there's always one more thing being added to the list of things everyone should contribute to.

[MelanieM]

You all are so focused on this "kids expect things to be handed down" crap that you are not listening to the point being made. My husband did not expect inheritance. His grandfather wanted this. It was his dream - he prepared a place for his kids, their kids, and their kids kids. He planned for it all along. It is not greed - it is family preservation. I could care less about money.

 

I'm not sure why it matters if it's the child wanting to hide the money or the parent wanting to hide the money. Yes, it's sad that someone might have to sell off family land in order to pay for their care. But when the alternative is that others are paying for the care because a family chooses to hide it for self-serving reasons, is that ok? That's the question. And yes, I can see that your answer is yes, it's ok... But I wonder how it is ok to say "I'm keeping my money/land/goods and looking to the state to pay for my care" yet it's selfish to say "if you have money at your disposal you should use that before looking to tax dollars to pay for your care." Why should someone else that needs assistance because there are no other options do without because another family wants to keep a house or car?

 

My mom has a house and a car worth approximately nothing. She makes it month to month, but do I want her special items sold off to pay for her care? NO! I want them passed down so my kids will remember their grandma and my kids kids will get to know her in some small way. It is not greed.

 

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding something here... In the US, are residents required to sell off everything they own, regardless of value, in these circumstances? I thought we were talking about liquidating assets for care, not selling off personal trinkets. I suppose a piece of family jewellery might count as an asset that could be sold rather than passed down, but I don't know that anyone is suggesting such a thing needs to happen at that 'small' a level. We're talking about people having hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of assets and choosing to hide that and get government support, rather than using the assets for their care. I guess I don't see how I need to have my mother's (hypothetical) house to remember her by when the funds could be used to provide for her in her later years.

 

And my mom paid her taxes. No one is asking "taxpayers to foot the bill" - what a narrowminded thought process we have here. I'd call THAT greed. God forbid that tax dollars help the elderly.

 

Really? Think about how much your mother (or any of us) pay in taxes over our lifetime. Then think of how much it costs to pay for care for 5 years. Are people really paying in enough to cover their own cost of care? I highly doubt the vast majority of people are even coming close. (And I would like to respectfully add that I don't think I've seen anyone here say that tax dollars shouldn't help the elderly. It seems to me that people are saying tax dollars should help the elderly that have no other options, and those with options should step up to the plate and help themselves. That's a very different sentiment.)

 

I'm also curious if this idea that people should not have to pay for their own care applies across the board to everyone. So let's say there's a woman with a 10 million dollar home that has been in her family for three generations, and she requires care and has no other money to pay for it. Should she be required to sell her house, or should she receive government care?

 

I ask this with genuine curiosity. Is there a magic number that could be used as a threshold for how much a person should be allowed to hold back in personal assets? Or is this an across the board 'no one should have to worry about their own care' stance some of you are taking?

[Vida Winter]

Federal aid will not kick in until the person in question is impoverished, period. If that person has a living spouse, the assets may be transferred to that spouse. Otherwise, you would end up with two impoverished people instead of one. So when people talk about transfer of assets, it is not always a cruel plot - it can be completely above board in the case of a spouse.

 

Transferring assets to children or family member is not allowed within a certain time period, which is what I think the 5 year period is all about. (Please clarify if this is wrong -- I'm trying to remember the old rules from 18 years ago).

 

If a person were to have a crystal ball and know when they would need to go into a nursing home they could legally transfer assets to someone 5 years prior and not be penalized, but I don't think many actually do this, since a) we don't have crystal balls and b) five years is a long time to be asking your children for an allowance.

 

When there is only one living spouse and they need government assistance, they must spend/sell/give away everything (I believe they can have a net worth of something like $1500) before they can receive aid.

 

What I see as a problem is the all-or-nothing nature of the decisions that families face. In many cases a person would do fine with some level of in-home care (much less expensive than a nursing home) but that doesn't fit the model, so if they are not independent they are forced into a home.

 

All in all it is a very sad situation which is exacerbated by the breakdown of the traditional family.

[EmilyK]

Federal aid will not kick in until the person in question is impoverished, period. If that person has a living spouse, the assets may be transferred to that spouse. Otherwise, you would end up with two impoverished people instead of one. So when people talk about transfer of assets, it is not always a cruel plot - it can be completely above board in the case of a spouse.

 

Transferring assets to children or family member is not allowed within a certain time period, which is what I think the 5 year period is all about. (Please clarify if this is wrong -- I'm trying to remember the old rules from 18 years ago).

 

If a person were to have a crystal ball and know when they would need to go into a nursing home they could legally transfer assets to someone 5 years prior and not be penalized, but I don't think many actually do this, since a) we don't have crystal balls and b) five years is a long time to be asking your children for an allowance.

 

When there is only one living spouse and they need government assistance, they must spend/sell/give away everything (I believe they can have a net worth of something like $1500) before they can receive aid.

 

I work in this area and this is a good summary of the rules. I haven't heard of mementos, dishes etc ever being sold, or needed to be spent, but other assets (cash, investments, real property) will need to be spent down or given away as described above. It is a needs-based program and need is described as having very few assets of monetary value (about $2000). Personal effects (clothes, dishes, furniture) have such a small sales value compared to their replacement value that I wouldn't worry about those being compromised.

[Impish]

Oh my!! I don't know how I missed this the first time around but this is truly heartbreaking!! It brings tears to my eyes.

 

Impish, may I ask since you are one who has worked in these facitilies, why are the other staff so unkind to the residents?? I mean, why do they choose this line of work if they have no heart for the elderly and if they don't have patience for their frailties or maybe more importantly, how do they even get hired for these types of positions if they have no heart for the people they will be caring for?? Does nobody really even care about these poor people besides the few like yourself??

 

Oh this thread is heartbreakingly sad. I realize that there are some things that are beyond all control, but I take this thread also as a precautionary warning to take the best care of myself now so that hopefully I won't be in a position like this in the future.

Sorry, I somehow missed this before.

 

Why would they treat residents this way? Well...think about it for a moment. First of all, we're a society that reveres youth, and often at all cost...hence the profitable cosmetic surgery biz. Media courts the young, more money is spent on cosmetics than on health care (willingly) per person...the list goes on. We do not respect our elderly in today's society.

 

Then there's the reality of what happens in the nursing home. 90% of the residents, if not more are 'orphans'. You'd think they'd hatched from eggs, considering you never see a single family member, with the potential exceptions of Christmas, Mother's Day/Father's Day. And even then...

 

To some of the staff, the residents simply aren't 'people'. Not in the same way you or I are. They're there to be taken care of, fed, changed, bathed...but that's it. Some call it 'professional distance'. I personally consider it a complete lack of human connection. I honestly think that they consider these people the dead who haven't had the sense to get on with it and lay down already. They've outlived their usefulness, nobody wants them anymore, they certainly aren't NEEDED, so hurry up and die already. Why bother getting to know and care about someone that's dead?

 

Nursing homes are a warehouse of people waiting to die. That's pretty much the long and the short of it. Nobody gets better and goes home. They sit, day after day, waiting.

[Ibbygirl]

Sorry, I somehow missed this before.

 

Why would they treat residents this way? Well...think about it for a moment. First of all, we're a society that reveres youth, and often at all cost...hence the profitable cosmetic surgery biz. Media courts the young, more money is spent on cosmetics than on health care (willingly) per person...the list goes on. We do not respect our elderly in today's society.

 

Then there's the reality of what happens in the nursing home. 90% of the residents, if not more are 'orphans'. You'd think they'd hatched from eggs, considering you never see a single family member, with the potential exceptions of Christmas, Mother's Day/Father's Day. And even then...

 

To some of the staff, the residents simply aren't 'people'. Not in the same way you or I are. They're there to be taken care of, fed, changed, bathed...but that's it. Some call it 'professional distance'. I personally consider it a complete lack of human connection. I honestly think that they consider these people the dead who haven't had the sense to get on with it and lay down already. They've outlived their usefulness, nobody wants them anymore, they certainly aren't NEEDED, so hurry up and die already. Why bother getting to know and care about someone that's dead?

 

Nursing homes are a warehouse of people waiting to die. That's pretty much the long and the short of it. Nobody gets better and goes home. They sit, day after day, waiting.

 

 

Thank you for your reply to my questions. It's just so very sad. I have always had a great love and respect for older people. I've always been of the mind that they've worked hard their whole lives and have made the sacrifices so that their children could have a better life than they did and in their golden years, it is a time for the children to "give back" to the parents that gave to them when they were young. I don't live in a bubble, I know that some people were not great parent and maybe their kids don't want to visit them because of a strained relationship, but I cannot believe that this is the case for 90% of the residents. That is just so horribly sad and it breaks my heart to hear these things. I teach a group of girls at my church on Wednesdays and we take them to nursing homes to visit the residents and we sing them songs. It's so precious to see them all dressed up in their best clothes to come hear us sing to them. They light up so much and we try to sing songs that they will know so that they can sing along. They enjoy it so much and it's such an easy thing to give. It is such a good thing for everyone involved. It just breaks my heart to think that these people are sent away and forgotten and left to die. :(

[kiana]

I also spent several years working in a nursing home. I'd like to add that ... disassociating to some extent was the only way for me to survive. The reality is that you have 10-15 people and from 6p-9p (roughly) to get them to bed. That's less than 20 minutes each, assuming that none of them go to the toilet except when getting ready for bed. You can chat while helping them get ready for bed, but other than that ... there. just. isn't. time. If I gave one person extra attention, that's the rest who have to wait extra time to go to the toilet.

 

It was a great motivator to go back to college. :/

I liked the people who lived there, I just hated the administrivia.

[Ibbygirl]

I also spent several years working in a nursing home. I'd like to add that ... disassociating to some extent was the only way for me to survive. The reality is that you have 10-15 people and from 6p-9p (roughly) to get them to bed. That's less than 20 minutes each, assuming that none of them go to the toilet except when getting ready for bed. You can chat while helping them get ready for bed, but other than that ... there. just. isn't. time. If I gave one person extra attention, that's the rest who have to wait extra time to go to the toilet.

 

It was a great motivator to go back to college. :/

I liked the people who lived there, I just hated the administrivia.

 

 

Thank you for shedding more light on this. But even though you were pressed for time, you thankfully had a heart for these people. :) That is a far cry from the types of staff that Impish was describing.

[Renee in NC]

Thank you for shedding more light on this. But even though you were pressed for time, you thankfully had a heart for these people. :) That is a far cry from the types of staff that Impish was describing.

 

Keep in mind that CNAs don't make much either - $8 an hour to start, maybe. Most start in nursing homes, but the best and brightest move on after a year or so to hospitals and high-end retirement communities (they pay $10-12 around here.)

[Ibbygirl]

Keep in mind that CNAs don't make much either - $8 an hour to start, maybe. Most start in nursing homes, but the best and brightest move on after a year or so to hospitals and high-end retirement communities (they pay $10-12 around here.)

 

 

That sounds so similar to the situation with therapy for my son. He has been dropped so many times by therapists who have moved on to the school board. :( I worry about him. I pray to God that he will be okay when he is older. I cannot imagine what will happen to him when my husband and I die. My daughter says she will take care of him, but I hope that will be possible. I cannot imagine my son in an institution. :(

[Julie in CA]

surely he paid enough tax through his whole working life

Enough to sustain important expenses such as infrastructure, law enforcement, education, and a myriad of other government services as well as fund the entire cost of his own nursing home care? Probably not even close.