Melissa in CA Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 I have sold several items today and yesterday and for each of them I was charge a 2.9% fee even though buyers purchased without credit or debit. I just found out that as of June 3 Paypal changed their policy, Here is a small portion: Effective Date: June 3, 2009 Beginning June 3, 2009 PayPal user agreement is being amended as follows: 1. Section 4.2 of the user agreement will read as follows: “4.2 Receiving Payments for Commercial Transactions and Personal Transactions. a. Fees depend on whether you are making a commercial transaction or a personal transaction. A commercial transaction involves buying and selling goods or services, and payments received when you send a “request money†using PayPal. A personal transaction involves sending money to and receiving money from friends and family without making a purchase. b. If you are selling goods or services, you may not ask the buyer to send you a personal payment for the purchase. If you do so, PayPal may remove your ability to accept personal payments.†Someone PLEASE correct me if I am wrong, but basically if you are selling something, and your buyer says they are purchasing goods or services, you are charged a fee regardless of how they pay! :glare: I guess it's back to accepting only money orders. Didn't Paypal get bought by Ebay?? I know I stopped using ebay a couple years ago because of their over-feeing EVERYTHING...it looks like Paypal is now trying to do the same. :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncmomo3 Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 I just checked my Paypal account for the past 2 days. I've had 3 transactions, but I don't see any fees. Hmm...I'll check again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cathy in SoCal Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 This is disappointing....that is what it sounds like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in CA Posted June 5, 2009 Author Share Posted June 5, 2009 (edited) You don't see the fees unless you click on the "details" link next to each transaction. Also, I just pretended to send someone money and they now have tabs that say "Personal" and "Purchase." If you click purchase...the buyer will incur charges. :glare: Edited June 5, 2009 by Melissa in CA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Wow, I didn't know about that. However, I am not surprised whatsoever. They have changed things a lot since it first began, and I think having ANYTHING free is basically an opportunity they see themselves as missing to make money....Bleh. Disappointed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cindyg Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 That reminds me that I hate Paypal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Wow, I didn't know about that. However, I am not surprised whatsoever. They have changed things a lot since it first began, and I think having ANYTHING free is basically an opportunity they see themselves as missing to make money. But this is the way of business: get yourself known, get people to depend on you, then charge what the traffic will bear. Pretty standard. Care to start a business to compete with them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swimmermom3 Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 No, I think you're right. I've sold a couple of things the last few days with no problem. However, yesterday's transaction had a fee. So this piece of fiendishness on Paypal's part explains it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in CA Posted June 5, 2009 Author Share Posted June 5, 2009 A wonderful WTMer just sent me money for some items and sent it under the personal tab in the "gift" catagory. And guess what?...No fees. Of course, under the policy we are not allowed to tell anyone to do that. :tongue_smilie: Hmmm, I wonder how many will abide by that rule... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nestof3 Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 As much as I dislike it, they are a business providing a service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 bumping up for the morning crowd. I wonder how this will affect the vendors who accept paypal. I'm thinking of the smaller companies like Life of Fred and paperbackswap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asta Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 bumping up for the morning crowd. I wonder how this will affect the vendors who accept paypal. I'm thinking of the smaller companies like Life of Fred and paperbackswap. They'll either have to absorb the cost or raise prices. And (again) I agree with nestof3: love 'em or hate 'em, they are the easiest way to transfer money. Especially (more or less) anonymously. a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan C. Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 OK, who gets charged the fees, buyer/seller/both? I see "if you purchase" and "if you sell." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhonda in TX Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 A wonderful WTMer just sent me money for some items and sent it under the personal tab in the "gift" catagory. And guess what?...No fees. Of course, under the policy we are not allowed to tell anyone to do that. :tongue_smilie: Hmmm, I wonder how many will abide by that rule... I would not in good conscience send money for a purchase under the "gift" category. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pip Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 I sold several items recently. All of them did not incur a fee until today. What is really a bummer is that it was being held until it cleared. If it had cleared when the purchaser sent the money a few days ago, I wouldn't have gotten any fees. Between problems with ebay and paypal, Im going with Amazon from now on. Ann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 If you're a vendor, then you're already being charged fees for a "professional" paypal account. The seller gets charged a fee. But I know some people just tack on the extra money to the selling price to compensate. This only applies to personal accounts, where the limit was $500/mo and no credit card. For a $5 sale, they take 30c + 3%, or 45c. That's a 9% charge. For a $2 item, 36c, or 18% charge. I object to the idea that their "take" should be so large. And speaking of large transactions, why does it "cost" them any more to shuffle money from one account to the other, especially from a paypal balance, when it's $100 or $1, anyway? (It doesn't.) I think someone should start a competitor's business. It's silly to suggest that I am not allowed to complain unless I do so -- I don't have the time or knowledge to do so. But I'm hardly the only disenchanted person. Many people are unhappy with many aspects of PayPal. They have adopted many bank services, but have total control over everything, unlike a real bank. There is more than one person who's had some fraudulent thing lead to Paypal taking their money from their bank account, or freezing transactions, or closing an acct that has funds. That scares me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deidre in GA Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 bumping up for the morning crowd. I wonder how this will affect the vendors who accept paypal. I'm thinking of the smaller companies like Life of Fred and paperbackswap. I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that those BUSINESSES already have commercial accounts with PayPal and have been paying fees all along. i'm not happy about this but i'm not surprised. i've always wondered how PayPal could prosper giving this service away. the internet has spoiled us into thinking that everything online should be free. at some point the piper must be paid somehow and ads alone are not going to cut it forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 They prospered in spite of personal accounts [less than $500/mo in activity] having no transaction fees for non-credit card transactions because a) they limited the number of people who were eligible for personal accts to people having less than $500/mo and not accepting credit cards, b) people selling stuff on personal accounts are a small fraction of the total Paypal business and c) they make tons of money on everyone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in CA Posted June 5, 2009 Author Share Posted June 5, 2009 I would not in good conscience send money for a purchase under the "gift" category. Well Rhonda, if I were to purchase something from you, I can guarantee I would purchase under the Personal tab so that you would not incur charges on my behalf. And I could do that in good conscience because you are a homeschool mom selling your books, usually at a loss, and not a company making a profit. I NEVER make a profit on my books. I don't care if it's something I have purchased new and never use, I still have to drop my prices a good 50% to get anyone to purchase them. It's frustrating. To then incur charges on top of that, makes for even a greater loss. I would not do that to another homeschool mom just trying to make ends meet and collect money for the next year's books. I say, you do what you must to to stay in good conscience, and I'll do the same. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in CA Posted June 5, 2009 Author Share Posted June 5, 2009 I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that those BUSINESSES already have commercial accounts with PayPal and have been paying fees all along. :iagree: With the limits Paypal places on Personal Accounts, I am sure businesses like Paperback and the like already incur charges. In fact, to put money into my Paperbackswap account, I am charged a fee. So they recoop their fees by charging US fees. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCoppock Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Although I am not excited about the new charges I understand it is business. I personally would not lie about a purchase being a gift because I think that would forfeit paypal's protection. Although I always try to reconcile a bad transaction with the the seller directly sometimes I appreciate the fact paypal will step in. I've had multiple questionable transactions both with homeschoolers and ebayers. I am thankful paypal has such services even if they are charging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammyla Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 That stinks, but it was coming sooner or later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetfeet Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 I've always had a premier account that has fees taken out. I just build my fees and shipping costs into the amount I'm charging and call it postage paid. Paypal works to recover money for you if you're taken, pays for servers, site support and everything else and I think paying 3% is fine for what they offer. You could always go to sending money orders and checks to avoid it.:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Just to let people know if you accept a Post Office money order you can cash it right at the post office. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that those BUSINESSES already have commercial accounts with PayPal and have been paying fees all along. i'm not happy about this but i'm not surprised. i've always wondered how PayPal could prosper giving this service away. the internet has spoiled us into thinking that everything online should be free. at some point the piper must be paid somehow and ads alone are not going to cut it forever. Yeah, I didn't think of that at 5am when I posted. :lol::lol: I wasn't thinking much except "where is the coffee?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KathyBC Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Using Canada Post is so expensive, buying and selling used curriculum in Canada is already often an exercise in giving. I will just go back to using cheques and waiting the extra time for them to clear. So long, PayPal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SueinNC Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Although I am not excited about the new charges I understand it is business. I personally would not lie about a purchase being a gift because I think that would forfeit paypal's protection. Although I always try to reconcile a bad transaction with the the seller directly sometimes I appreciate the fact paypal will step in. I've had multiple questionable transactions both with homeschoolers and ebayers. I am thankful paypal has such services even if they are charging. That is a very good point you bring up about selecting the personal tab over the business tab would forfeit the buyer protection plan. We would have no protection over a transaction that goes sour. The new fee pays for this service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhonda in TX Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Well Rhonda, if I were to purchase something from you, I can guarantee I would purchase under the Personal tab so that you would not incur charges on my behalf. And I could do that in good conscience because you are a homeschool mom selling your books, usually at a loss, and not a company making a profit. I NEVER make a profit on my books. I don't care if it's something I have purchased new and never use, I still have to drop my prices a good 50% to get anyone to purchase them. It's frustrating. To then incur charges on top of that, makes for even a greater loss. I would not do that to another homeschool mom just trying to make ends meet and collect money for the next year's books. I say, you do what you must to to stay in good conscience, and I'll do the same. ;)[/QUOte] Then I would, in good conscience, have to return your money to you and ask you to resend it as "goods sold". I don't knowingly break rules and try to be honest in all my dealings. Saving a dollar (more or less) is not worth it to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SueinNC Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Just to let people know if you accept a Post Office money order you can cash it right at the post office. I am not sure what postal money orders cost but we could compare this cost (and the cost in time and gas to cash it) with paypal's new fees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhonda in TX Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that those BUSINESSES already have commercial accounts with PayPal and have been paying fees all along. i'm not happy about this but i'm not surprised. i've always wondered how PayPal could prosper giving this service away. the internet has spoiled us into thinking that everything online should be free. at some point the piper must be paid somehow and ads alone are not going to cut it forever. We have an online store and use Paypal to process our credit cards. Yes, we have been paying the fees all along. Even if somebody uses "pay with Paypal" rather than a credit card, we still pay a fee. The fees are a cost of doing business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIch elle Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Now, I will have to pass along that fee! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singerandsigner Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 I am miffed about the new fees. Paypal did not inform me of any changes in their policies and that is unethical! Revolution MoneyExchange works the same as paypal used to work without fees. If everyone signs up for that, it could solve our fee problems. Here's a link to take a look at it: https://www.revolutionmoneyexchange.com/Login.aspx I don't get any benefit from telling you about it, so check it out! Just sign up and start paying others with it and receiving payments too, of course. Blessings, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinkInTheBlue Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 As a business person who used Paypal in the past for occasional large transactions I can also tell you they have always charged some hefty fees for businesses. :) However, now that we are on a credit card service like any other store I'm still paying hefty fees for credit cards anyway. Also, money orders and cashier checks are now being counterfeited, so some banks are holding them up to 10 days like traditional checks. American Express fees are the worse with those darn credit cards with 'money back' or 'airline miles' being just as horrible. Guess who pays for those perks! Not the credit card company! :) Ugh! Now I'm ranting...never mind. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swimmermom3 Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 So, does this mean if I currently have a personal account and would like to continue to sell last year's curriculum, I should upgrade to a premier account? I guess Paypal would bump me up to that after 5 transactions anyway. Would there be a point in keeping a personal and a business account? Sorry for the questions but I'm a simple kind of gal:D Due to the economy, our local home school store is only issuing store credit for used items. I don't have anything else to buy from them for this year. I would like to continue to sell and buy online but am unsure how to proceed. I didn't really plan on creating a business out of last year's curriculum! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamom Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Ugh! Why did they have to go and ruin a good thing?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearnpurple Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 I agree they are providing a service just like a bank or credit card company.....also money orders and checks costs money too. You have to buy the money orders and checks plus the postage to send them. So I guess it just depends on what you think is the lesser of 2 evils. For example, you have 2.9% of $10.00 is $0.29 compare that to the stamp cost?!?! Although, I know people who sell on ebay that figure the cost into their selling price....isn't that what the store do too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tree House Academy Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 See, this only affects personal accounts. I have a premier account and we always get charged fees - no matter what. I never know what people pay with because I get slapped with a fee no matter what. It is almost, between paypal fees and shipping charges, becoming too expensive to sell stuff online! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Using Canada Post is so expensive, buying and selling used curriculum in Canada is already often an exercise in giving. I will just go back to using cheques and waiting the extra time for them to clear. So long, PayPal. Kathy, that's what I do. I've never used PayPal. Just let buyers know up front "money order and I'll mail upon receipt; cheque and I'll mail when it clears my bank - usually 3 business days." MOs cost a few bucks. Cheques are usually free, so it's up to them how they want to pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 So I guess it just depends on what you think is the lesser of 2 evils. For example, you have 2.9% of $10.00 is $0.29 compare that to the stamp cost?!?! It's 30c + 2.9%. Not 2.9% by itself. So 2.9% of $10 is 29c, but the total fee will be 30c+29c=59c. (Postal money orders are not several dollars in the US.) My point is, it's getting to be a big hassle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yinne Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Trying to find something positive! It appears that I won't have to tell someone that I no longer accept credit card paypal payments. All payments regardless of source appear to be the 2.9% + .30. When you click on fees on the paypal screen these are the only fees that are showing and when I click on my limits I only have a monthly withdrawal limit showing. It use to show a limit of 5 annual cc payments I could accept and I was charged a fee of 4.9% + .30 for each one. Now if they start charging for withdrawals I'm done with them:) Yvonne in NE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ereks mom Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 I plan to refund the buyer's money and have her send a money order instead. So much for PayPal. :glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swimmermom3 Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Trying to find something positive! It appears that I won't have to tell someone that I no longer accept credit card paypal payments. All payments regardless of source appear to be the 2.9% + .30. When you click on fees on the paypal screen these are the only fees that are showing and when I click on my limits I only have a monthly withdrawal limit showing. It use to show a limit of 5 annual cc payments I could accept and I was charged a fee of 4.9% + .30 for each one. Thanks, Yvonne! This is what I've been trying to figure out. So I don't need to upgrade to a Premier account? I can build the fee into the sales price and just say that I accept Paypal? I don't need to worry about the 5 transaction limit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swimmermom3 Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Sorry. Another basic question. If I buy from someone with a money order do I have any recourse if the item doesn't show up? Would this be one of the advantages to staying w/ Paypal?:001_huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yinne Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Lisa: I spent about an hour going through Paypal's website and reading about these changes and that is what it looks like to me. I know the cc limit isn't there anymore, at least on my account when I click on limits the only thing that shows anymore is the withdrawal limit, and the only fees that show are these: http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_display-fees-outside Yvonne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nukeswife Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Lisa: I spent about an hour going through Paypal's website and reading about these changes and that is what it looks like to me. I know the cc limit isn't there anymore, at least on my account when I click on limits the only thing that shows anymore is the withdrawal limit, and the only fees that show are these: http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_display-fees-outside Yvonne I too went searching and I can't even see a "view limits" link on my page. My page is actually very different lookng in the past few days. Although I liked not having to pay funded paypal, I'm kind of relieved that now I won't have to worry about taking credit or debit cards anymore, especially when some buyers didn't seem to realize that paypal treats debit cards the same as credit cards. For now I'll keep my account as personal and then upgrade to a premier if I find it to be different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jojokinkaid Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 That is not exactly how PayPal’s policy has changed. This is addressed in this forum in this thread: http://www.modeeworld.com/forums/paypal-discussions/171-paypal-premier-personal-business.html the change has to do with FEES on payments not so much that you cannot use a Personal account at all for payments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in CA Posted June 5, 2009 Author Share Posted June 5, 2009 (edited) I am miffed about the new fees. Paypal did not inform me of any changes in their policies and that is unethical! YES! This is what bothers me most. I don't like the fees of course, but I CAN understand them to a point. I didn't mind Ebay's fees at first either, until they kept raising them along with no longer allowing the sale of TM's. What DOES bother me is that I never received a single notice about this Policy change. Not one. And I would STILL not know about it if I had not decided to click on the "details" link on one of my transactions to get a mailing address. On the main transactions page it shows what the buyer sent you, and shows nothing about how much Paypal took out of that. You don't know THAT unless you check the transaction "details." I could have gone on completely oblivious forEVER...cuz they sure didn't send me a single thing about any changes. :confused: Edited June 5, 2009 by Melissa in CA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bella_gitana Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Trying to find something positive! It appears that I won't have to tell someone that I no longer accept credit card paypal payments. All payments regardless of source appear to be the 2.9% + .30. When you click on fees on the paypal screen these are the only fees that are showing and when I click on my limits I only have a monthly withdrawal limit showing. It use to show a limit of 5 annual cc payments I could accept and I was charged a fee of 4.9% + .30 for each one. Now if they start charging for withdrawals I'm done with them:) Yvonne in NE :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ereks mom Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 Exactly the same thing happened to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asta Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 I've paid with PayPal a few times recently to private individuals. Each time, I've been given the option of clicking "payment owed" rather then "payment for goods" (or whatever that one is). Is PayPal taking fees from people who are receiving "payment owed" from a personal account? It doesn't appear so. a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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