Life of Fred-pros and cons

[swimmermom3]

I had never heard of Life of Fred for math before joining this forum. Can anyone tell me more about. Mastery or spiral? Ages/levels? How do your kids feel about it?

 

Thank you!

[RedHen6]

The best place to find answers to your questions would be the publisher's website: http://www.stanleyschmidt.com/FredGauss/index2.html

 

The Fractions book along with the Decimals & Percents book together are a pre-algebra program. I view that as a 6th or 7th grade level. However, there are younger children who could easily work through these books, but that wouldn't necessarily mean they were ready for algebra.

 

The other texts are high school courses.

 

It is not what I would call a spiral program, but the review questions provided definitely reach back to previously-covered topics.

 

My literature-minded 12 yo dd is excited to use these books. My dh and I enjoyed the humor in the chapters we previewed. I'm not sure that I am comfortable (yet) using it as a stand-alone math program (not for pre-algebra, anyway), but I reserve the right to change my mind!

[klmama]

My ds loves it. It's funny, and the stories help with retention of the information.

 

Spiral or mastery? Good question. I'm not sure how to answer it, though! There is certainly review in every group of problems, but not so much in the pre-algebra books to make it boring. However, I don't think there is enough in them to call it a mastery program, either. Maybe the algebra and higher levels are more one or the other, but someone else will have to answer that, as I haven't seen them yet.

 

 

[amiechoke]

Mastery or spiral? Ages/levels? How do your kids feel about it?

 

Thank you!

 

I'd say it's a mastery program, as it doesn't spend a lot of time revisiting previous concepts. This also probably explains why it's such a slender volume, as compared to a spiraling curriculum.

 

My DD10 loves it and DD8 is begging to do LoF:Fractions. We originally picked it up just because it looked like fun.

 

FWIW, DD10 used LoF:Fractions and LoF: Decimals & Percents to prep (on short notice) for her pre-Algebra course. She had been skating along at the top of "advanced 5th grade math" and, after a series of arguments with the school, was finally moved up to 6th grade pre-algebra. Mid-year. So, we used the two LoF books to review everything the class had already covered in the fall semester. She's done just fine in the remaining semester.

 

There aren't many problems at the end of each chapter - I think of them as just a chapter review. I plan to use a parallel program to drill concepts. Keys to Algebra look good, although I'm also considering CLE math.

 

Good luck,

ATB

Edited May 20, 2009 by amiechoke

[Sunshine State Sue]

Life of Fred website is http://www.stanleyschmidt.com/FredGauss/index2.html. We are using LoF Algebra in 7th grade. We have the student book and the home companion.

 

Pros:

• humorous

• can be used independently

• good variety of problems

• good depth of problems (ie. challenging)

• Stan Schmidt is helpful if problems arise.

 

Cons:

• verbose

• many answers immediately follow the problems (tempting my student to look)

• sometimes he teaches in the answers to problems (ds doesn’t take the time to read it)

• student may need additional practice

 

 

My son (math is his best subject) liked the story, but didn't like having to think to complete the problems. Part of that can be blamed on puberty and part of that can be blamed on self-motivation, or lack thereof. Honestly, I just don't think that this style fit his learning style well either. He's more of a "just the facts" kinda guy.

 

I would not call it mastery or spiral.

[HollyDay]

Pros:

fun and silly

makes the student think differently

looks at math differently than "regular" programs

different learning style

 

Cons:

not enough practice problems

can be frustrating (this according to dd who thinks all math can be frustrating)

 

 

I find a gap between Fractions and Decimals and Algebra. We finished Fractions/Decimals in 7th grade. But, the author does not want you to start Algebra until 9th. He recommends doing workbooks from another company to retain speed and accuracy for the 8th grade year. We are not doing that. We are going directly into Algebra for 8th grade. Will see how that works.

[razorbackmama]

My oldest son didn't like it. But I think several things probably contributed to that. When it comes to math, he's not keen on a lot of words LOL. He's also not SUPER great at reading comprehension. He's not good at abstract thinking.

 

I thought they were really cute and fun and would have loved them as a student. But he did nothing but complain about them. The weirdo. LOL.

[nmoira]

 

He recommends doing workbooks from another company to retain speed and accuracy for the 8th grade year. We are not doing that.

Schmidt just started writing a third book for the pre-algebra sequence to do just this.

[Matryoshka]

My twins are now working through Decimals and Percents.

 

They have been a huge hit, and I think have also really cemented their understanding, as well as successfully introducing some concepts their Singapore books haven't gotten to yet. For my dd who is more lanugage-oriented, I am seriously considering using Fred as her spine math program starting with Algebra. I think having the story makes the math more meaningful to her, and it "sticks" better.

 

Her twin sister is also an avid reader, but said she'd rather not have to read a story to get her math - she'd rather read for pleasure and have math be "just the facts" - so after Decimals/Percents Fred will probably just be a supplement for her (I'm thinking I'd only use it for her where she's having trouble with an explanation in another book - it's always helpful to get explanations from more than one angle).

 

I think these books are especially useful for very verbal kids who normally find math to be somewhere between a chore and torture.

[Dani n Monies Mom]

My dd13 has used MUS for the last 4 years, Gamma-Zeta, and we have enjoyed it very much, it's the only program that hasn't changed year to year, by dd's request. However, I caught wind of LoF last year and showed dh, who was intrigued by the program. We were able to preview these at the library. Perhaps you could go that route to try one out first.

DD has finished up Zeta, along with LoF's first 2 books. It's been a hit with her. She wants to continue with LoF and nothing else for math., so we'll be continuing with LoF for Algebra next year.

 

There are some here who do use it as a stand-alone after having tried it as a supplement first. I've actually used it myself to get ahead of dd for when she starts Beginning Algebra. I really like it, especially if you get the Home Companion with it. Lots of review and plenty of problem sets. The book is really just one big word problem and the best part is, it's fun

 

The first two books can be done in a year or less, the rest are set up to be done in about 108 lessons(via the Home Companion.) So possibly less than a year per book could be accomplished.

 

For the upper levels the Home Companions along with the main text would be the complete program, although you don't necessarily need the Home Companion, I've found that the extra problem sets are very good. And I like that it's broken down into lessons with plenty of review and thinking outside of the box.

 

The Beginning Algebra, unlike fractions and decimals & percents, has 6 problem sets (called cities) after each chapter in addition to the problem sets within the chapter.(fractions and decimals does this after every five chapters) The text only supplies the odd answers for 2 of the sets, the complete answers for 2 of the sets and no answers for the last 2 sets. The Home companion will have the rest of the answers.

Here's an example of the set up:

For chapter one there is an additional practice set offered in the Home Companion in addition to the two "Your Turn to Play"'s in the text and the six cities at the end of the chapter. And of course, the answers Each chapter is set up this way. So you have 9 problem sets offered per chapter.

 

I believe the Home Companion to be a great value. For geometry, there is only an answer key offered, not a Home Companion.

 

The biggest problem I've found is when Stan does some of his teaching within the answer key, dd almost always overlooks those. And you may have some who will read the text without actually doing the work, so follow-up is a necessity.

 

HTH

Ava

Edited May 20, 2009 by Dani n Monies Mom

[Suzannah]

I think my only criticism is that the answers are sometimes visible on the same page as the problems. Often it goes onto the next page or, when there are several problems &/or the answers require a bit of explanation, it's not very noticible. But when the answer is something straightforward like "42" and DS sees it, even if he didn't mean to, he really hates to go through the whole process of finding the answer...again.

 

When I think about it I put post-it notes over the answer sections. It's great to have them in there for the students to check their own work, but it might be better at the end of the book (as the bridge answers are) or at least after a page-turn so it's not on the same page you're working.

 

Other than this, we love it. DS is not of fan of math but he thinks Fred is hilarious and often chooses to do LOF when he could be working on another assignment. And, thankfully, he's been very good about not reading ahead. He always does the math before moving on. FWIW, we don't use LOF as a stand-alone curriculum. We used Saxon up until this spring when we just couldn't take another new concept (they seemed to be adding on more and more difficult ones with each lesson) and switched to Teaching Textbooks 7. We began the year with LOF Fractions and are about 1/3 through LOF Decimals and Percents.

[mom2abunch]

Thank you ladies for such in depth answers!

[Night Elf]

I've talked with the author several times through email. His responses are always clearly understandable and helpful. Since my DH is a math guy, I've had no problem accepting LoF as a top notch program.

 

As everyone else says, the first two books are Fractions, and Decimals and Percents. They are slender volumes which can make some people very nervous. I believe that is why I always hear how the books should only be a supplement. We are actually using them alongside Singapore and it's working rather well.

 

Mr. Schmidt recently told me that he was currently working on a prealgebra book that would be appropriate between Decimals and Fractions and Beginning Algebra. He believes a child needs to have a certain physiological development to be ready for Algebra.

 

In our family, we expect the kids to complete Singapore through 6B alongside LoF and then use LoF as their only mathematics program.

[sagira]

I think my only criticism is that the answers are sometimes visible on the same page as the problems. Often it goes onto the next page or, when there are several problems &/or the answers require a bit of explanation, it's not very noticible. But when the answer is something straightforward like "42" and DS sees it, even if he didn't mean to, he really hates to go through the whole process of finding the answer...again.

 

I can see us having a problem with that. Thank you.

[Holly IN]

According to the WTM book, it is only used as a supplement and fun. Extra helps and fun. hhmmmm maybe that is why there are answers on the page. It is not meant to be used as a main text according to the WTM book.

 

Hope this helps-

Holly

[Corraleno]

According to the WTM book, it is only used as a supplement and fun. Extra helps and fun. hhmmmm maybe that is why there are answers on the page. It is not meant to be used as a main text according to the WTM book.

According to the author, a retired high school and college math teacher, Algebra through Calculus are stand-alone programs. In fact, the LoF Calculus text is approved by the College Board as an AP prep text! My DH, who uses calculus every day in his work, was impressed with the calculus book (which he read as soon as we got it) and he has skimmed the other books and thinks they're excellent.

 

I think for many students, LoF is fine as a stand-alone. Kids who struggle with math or need a lot of review to cement concepts, may need supplementation. But even in that case, it's possible to use LoF as the spine and supplement with other books/workbooks. The "Home Companion" supplements were written specifically to provide extra practice and review for the Algebra I & II books.

 

My DD loves math and moves very quickly, so I'm expecting that LoF will be all she needs once she finishes Singapore and MEP. OTOH my DS really struggles with math and needs very explicit, simple explanations, but he also loves LoF and wants to use them for his textbooks. So I plan to combine LoF with TT for him.

 

Jackie

[Caroline4kids]

Schmidt just started writing a third book for the pre-algebra sequence to do just this.

 

:party:

Yeah!! I love LOF and we did the two pre-al books last year. My kids needed more practice though once I saw the Beginning Algebra book.

 

I have the Statistics book as my husband needed it for a brush up for a military course, anyway... that book was both fun and very thick! I don't think there is anything missing from the upper level books.

 

My kids are visual learners, but they all really liked Fred. Now only if Fred had his own DVD's....:)

[swimmermom3]

Everyone (Brindee, too), thank you for your detailed and insightful input. It was so much more help and information than I had hoped for.

 

My dc are in a "middle ground"-they started in the school system (private/public) and will probably end up there for high school. So, unfortunately we do need to pay some attention to the ps's method of instruction. The math curriculum in our area is one of the reasons we chose to homeschool. It changes every 7 years and is currently very word-oriented. Hs also failed 48% of its sophmores in math.

 

When my youngest ds tested this year, the administrator (ps) was impressed with his results until she heard I used Saxon (well, I did drive my Model T there!). She told me he would have a hard time in high school unless I went beyond "just the facts". LoF sounds like it would be a good supplement for him.

 

However, I am most excited to use it for my math phobic ds. It sounds like a good option for Algebra 2. I am grateful that the cost is so reasonable.

 

Again, thanks and blessings to you all. I'm off to to check the library for a copy and if they don't have it, I'll just be shopping:D Oh, and learning how to use quotes in my replies.

[3byzaz]

"Now only if Fred had his own DVD's....":)

 

I agree, but I emailed the author yesterday with some questions. He answered me that it would be very easy for him to do DVD's because he has a background in tv production. But, he believes very heavily in students reading and figuring it out for themselves. I just am concerned that if they just can't, I won't probably be able to help them either. But, he had a good point--I won't be able to help in Calculus either!

 

He also said that the 'pre-algebra' book that he is writing should be out by late summer or early fall. Yea...I think that might work well for us.

[nmoira]

 

He also said that the 'pre-algebra' book that he is writing should be out by late summer or early fall. Yea...I think that might work well for us.

Oh my, that would be fantastic. I know he just finished Linear Algebra and didn't think he'd be able to complete the next one so quickly.

[Kristen in NC]

He also said that the 'pre-algebra' book that he is writing should be out by late summer or early fall. Yea...I think that might work well for us.

 

That's great news for me too.

[ChileMama]

We are halfway through Fractions and have not yet found it to be this way (requiring deep thought) generally speaking. I agree with other posters that I'm not comfortable with this as the only math curriculum. To date, we have used it to supplement public school and that's worked fairly well. For next year (when we'll be homeschooling full time), dd9 will finish whatever's left of Fred Fractions and Decimals, then do some Year 7 and Year 8 units from http://www.cimt.plymouth.ac.uk/projects/mep/default.htm , and do Math Behind the Market lessons in preparation for playing the Stock Market Game in the spring (stalling on algebra while she matures in thinking and study habits).

 

-- Susannah in NM

[Night Elf]

We are halfway through Fractions and have not yet found it to be this way (requiring deep thought) generally speaking. I agree with other posters that I'm not comfortable with this as the only math curriculum.

 

The books starting at Beginning Algebra are bigger and include more depth than traditional high school mathematics.

[skaterbabs]

:lurk5:

[Free Indeed]

Here is part of the email that he sent me:

 

In early April I finished the first draft of my 12th which is a college upper-division math book (Life of Fred: Linear Algebra). It was 13 months in the writing. It was a kind of experiment to see if Fred could be incorporated into a more theoretical setting which included such things as homomorphisms of vector spaces.

Then I've gotten "back to work" at the homeschooling level. The tentative title is Life of Fred: Pre-Algebra 1 and Biology. It should "write" a lot quicker than that upper-division LOF:LA book. I estimate that it will be ready by the end of summer. I don't tell the kids, but the math will be 80% review of LOF: Fractions and LOF: Decimals and Percents with the problems often coming from a biological context.

Then, tentatively, Life of Fred: Pre-Algebra 2: Economics, in which Fred will take arithmetic into the business world. And Life of Fred: Pre-Algebra 3: Physics.

 

Sounds great, but maybe too late for my son, we will see.

[Matryoshka]

Here is part of the email that he sent me:

 

In early April I finished the first draft of my 12th which is a college upper-division math book (Life of Fred: Linear Algebra). It was 13 months in the writing. It was a kind of experiment to see if Fred could be incorporated into a more theoretical setting which included such things as homomorphisms of vector spaces.

Then I've gotten "back to work" at the homeschooling level. The tentative title is Life of Fred: Pre-Algebra 1 and Biology. It should "write" a lot quicker than that upper-division LOF:LA book. I estimate that it will be ready by the end of summer. I don't tell the kids, but the math will be 80% review of LOF: Fractions and LOF: Decimals and Percents with the problems often coming from a biological context.

Then, tentatively, Life of Fred: Pre-Algebra 2: Economics, in which Fred will take arithmetic into the business world. And Life of Fred: Pre-Algebra 3: Physics.

 

 

Oooooo!!!!! :hurray: We're doing Biology and SM6 next school year... I envision another summer of Fred after that (just when I thought we'd run out)!

[Heather in VA]

I'm not at all sure why people would be uncomfortable with using LOF as their sole math program. It's been great for us. My middle dd has used Fractions and Decimals/Percents but at 9 years old I'm not ready to start her in full-fledged Algebra yet - at least not with Fred because of the maturity needed for it. So I've been trying all kinds of things - I have almost every major math program, challenging word problem books etc - all in that pre-algebra stage and there haven't been any that LOF didn't prepare her for.

 

I own the full set. They only get more challenging as they go. LOF Calculus is on a very short list of recommended texts for the AP Calc exam.

 

I do agree that I wish the answers weren't right there. And I do think that kids who struggle with math and need tons of repetition might have problems. Like any math program, it needs to fit your child. But for those whom it fits, there is no need to worry about needing something else too.

 

Heather

[Dana]

I own the full set. They only get more challenging as they go. LOF Calculus is on a very short list of recommended texts for the AP Calc exam.

 

When looking at the College Board site, I didn't see a list of recommended texts. Using the search function, I found one review of LOF Calculus that said: "I believe this text could be used in an AP Calculus course, but that an instructor for the course would need to provide much supplemental material. It is clear that the text is not aimed for an AP course. Not only would there be a need to supplement content, but also problems. There are types of problems on the AP exam that one just doesn't encounter in this text. "

http://apcentral.collegeboard.com/apc/Pageflows/TeachersResource/viewResourceDetail.do?source=tr&resourceId=10530

 

I think the books sound interesting and I may check them out in an upcoming year, but it doesn't sound like it'd be enough for the AP.

[nmoira]

When looking at the College Board site, I didn't see a list of recommended texts.

I don't think that it's on the recommend list for the AP Calculus AB or BC exam, but it is on the College Board's list of CLEP resources.

 

I think the books sound interesting and I may check them out in an upcoming year, but it doesn't sound like it'd be enough for the AP.

Schmidt doesn't claim that the text is geared towards an AP or any other test. Any text not geared specifically towards an AP exam should be supplemented with prep material specific to that exam for exactly the reason the reviewer noted: there are types of questions on the test not found in the text. Time is a premium when taking a test, and you want to minimize the number of unfamiliar problems. As Schmidt notes in the introduction, all Calculus texts leave out something because it's a huge topic. I'm currently working through the text and am impressed with both the method (accept nothing on faith) and the problem sets. I've even had a couple *d'oh* moments... and I aced college calculus.

 

The reviewer above goes on to note:

 

Finally, I must point out that one can only really know a calculus text by having used it. I haven't had that experience with this text, but would be tempted to try it under certain circumstances.

 

Edited May 24, 2009 by nmoira

[chai]

Here is part of the email that he sent me:

 

In early April I finished the first draft of my 12th which is a college upper-division math book (Life of Fred: Linear Algebra). It was 13 months in the writing. It was a kind of experiment to see if Fred could be incorporated into a more theoretical setting which included such things as homomorphisms of vector spaces.

Then I've gotten "back to work" at the homeschooling level. The tentative title is Life of Fred: Pre-Algebra 1 and Biology. It should "write" a lot quicker than that upper-division LOF:LA book. I estimate that it will be ready by the end of summer. I don't tell the kids, but the math will be 80% review of LOF: Fractions and LOF: Decimals and Percents with the problems often coming from a biological context.

Then, tentatively, Life of Fred: Pre-Algebra 2: Economics, in which Fred will take arithmetic into the business world. And Life of Fred: Pre-Algebra 3: Physics.

 

Sounds great, but maybe too late for my son, we will see.

 

 

These new books sound awesome! I sure hope that they will be ready when dd needs them next year.

[HiddenJewel]

He also said that the 'pre-algebra' book that he is writing should be out by late summer or early fall. Yea...I think that might work well for us.

 

That would be awesome as I have Beginning Algebra for my 7th grader-to-be and I am very concerned she isn't ready for it.

[SBP]

Pros: (1) My kids love the story. They'd be content to skip the math problems, but if they have to do math at all (and they do!) they prefer Fred. (2) The problems make them think about what they're doing, and why. (3) The lessons are short enough that we're usually finished with one before my children start flailing about how tired they are, how their hand has a cramp, how ALL THESE NUMBERS are melting their brains, etc.

 

Cons: Just one really - there's not enough practice in Fred for my children. LoF has to be a supplement for us. It seems to work best to introduce them to the concept in another program (I'm using the Key to... series for this right now), let them get comfortable with it, and then let them apply what they've learned to the LoF lessons. I have one just going into LoF Decimals & Percents and one about midway through LoF Fractions.

 

Best,

 

SBP

[Corraleno]

Cons: Just one really - there's not enough practice in Fred for my children. LoF has to be a supplement for us. .... I have one just going into LoF Decimals & Percents and one about midway through LoF Fractions.

 

Have you looked at Algebra I and up? The upper level books are much meatier than Fractions & Decimals, especially with all the extra problems in the Home Companion books.

 

Jackie

[Spy Car]

:lurk5:

[Cindyg]

These new books sound awesome! I sure hope that they will be ready when dd needs them next year.

 

Actually, these new books sound like they'll be worth going BACK for when they're out, even though we'll be on past them by then.

 

ETA: No cons for us. My son loves these books. We did Fractions in the 4th grade, and are nearly done with Decimals in the 5th grade. Hoping to do pre-algebra next year.

[Colleen in SEVA]

:lurk5: