SproutMamaK Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Oh brother. We're jumping to the 'A' word for five minutes with a sponge? Judge away, I think I explained as well as I could! When a board full of people, many of whom come from the same background and parenting ideology as yourself, are HORRIFIED at what you're saying happened, maybe it should give you pause instead of being written off as an "oh brother". ESPECIALLY since you explained it as well as you could. We all understand your reasoning perfectly; we just think it's horrifying. Not that it matters; you're so sure that you did nothing wrong here that you're unwilling to listen to anyone anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRAAB Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 I've probably broken more dishes accidentally than my children ever have. I wonder who should be punishing me? Dh? Hmmmm........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trilliums Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 I don't punish for accidents. I don't impose punishments at all. My kids are older teens now and they are responsible and careful young adults. I have zero regrets about not punishing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennyD Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 A few years ago, we bought a minivan. I was just learning to drive again after not driving for many years, and the second day we had the car I packed up the kids and went off to do a couple of errands. Including the bank, where I went through the drive-through ATM, and..... CRUNCH! I knocked the side mirror right off. Just smacked into that big bright yellow pole, the one that is painted bright yellow precisely so you won't drive into it. I had caused hundreds, if not thousands of dollars of damage to a brand-new car, in about 5 seconds. I drove home, mirror dangling from the side, and told DH, who said nothing beyond comforting me to the effect that look, these things happen sometimes, it takes a while to be able to gauge the dimensions of the car, it was an accident, at least nobody was hurt. (As it turned out, he was able to fix the mirror himself for about $25 in replacement parts.) i get very frustrated when my kids damage things accidentally. It seems so wasteful, and it nearly always could have been avoided, and if it's something of mine that got damaged it's even more aggravating. However, in that moment of anger, I try to recall that sickening crunch of the car mirror smashing into the pole, and how grateful I was that my darling husband tried to make me feel better, not worse, when I already felt awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Oh brother. We're jumping to the 'A' word for five minutes with a sponge? Judge away, I think I explained as well as I could! No. My boys spend much more than that with a sponge (markers, walls; crayons, walls)... I think it's jumping to that because of the reason for the sponge - a young, sick child vomited and was made to clean up their own vomit as punishment for getting out of bed. I just can't... imagine... what my relationship would be with my parents if such punishments took place in my childhood home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeteranMom Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 I can understand a freak accident (like what happened with you), but there was a period of time when my kids were regularly breaking dishes when unloading the dishwasher. I feel it was due to carelessness. I did talk to them firmly when I saw a pattern with what was happening. I would never hit a child over an accident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tap Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 I do not punish for an accident by a child who was acting age appropriate. A spilled glass of milk, a knocked over/broken lamp, a lost/misplaced item that has to be replaced.....all normal accidents that do not have a consequence, beyond a natural one. If the accident is from acting silly or screwing around, they may have some extra responsibility in helping to clean up or make repairs if possible. (Like when dd15s boyfriend was giving her a piggy back ride through the house while she carried two open glasses of smoothies. When they ended up on the carpet because they tripped as he tried to lower her to the dining room table, they got to clean up the mess instead of me, including shampooing the dining/living room carpet since they are all one room.) If the accident is from blatant disregard, there will be consequences even for an accident. (ie when dd7 was throwing a flailing-on-floor tantrum and 'accidentally' kicked my coffee cup off an end table onto a decorative carpet. She did have to clean it up and then was grounded for the afternoon from playing with friends as a consequence because the carpet was damaged. Had she been kicking the floor and the coffee tumbled off the table due to vibrations, that would be different, but she purposefully kicked the table. I think spilling the coffee was an accident, but was still caused the resulting damage.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 OK, let me get this straight. Your little dd was sick in bed, but she got out of bed and vomited, so you MADE A SICK YOUNG CHILD CLEAN UP HER OWN VOMIT??? :eek: I'm sorry, but that is absolutely horrible. I can tell that you adore your kids, but I really wish you would re-think your stance on punishment. i can't help but believe that you will regret a lot of it in years to come. I dunno - I have cleaned up vomit and worse when I was sick. (Haven't we all?) It isn't the end of the world. My mom used to have that policy to ensure kids at least try to get to the toilet. The only time it was ever implemented was when someone sat there and cried until she puked despite being urged to go to the toilet, which was a couple yards away. She didn't have to clean it entirely, but was given a cloth to help with the cleaning briefly - point being, there's a good reason to puke in the toilet. (Said puker still holds that against my mom, after being told by "better people" how abusive it was.) I would note that my mom (who ran the family business at home) had four puking kids at the time. We were camped out in front of the bathroom door and everyone was clear on where they were supposed to puke and why. Just because kids are sick does not automatically mean the mom has endless energy to clean puke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravin Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 I'm going to defend arctic mom on the vomit. My DD has helped clean up her own puke, too. It depends on how sick the child is, how epic the vomit, and how I'm feeling (been known to get sick together). Also the need to keep younger child away from the vomit. A few times when she's successfully hit the bucket, she's cleaned it entirely herself, usually when adults were sleeping. Other times, she's coddled because she clearly needs it. My poor ability to deal with vomit was a chief reason I decided to go to law school instead of into PA school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 I dunno - I have cleaned up vomit and worse when I was sick. (Haven't we all?) It isn't the end of the world. My mom used to have that policy to ensure kids at least try to get to the toilet. The only time it was ever implemented was when someone sat there and cried until she puked despite being urged to go to the toilet, which was a couple yards away. She didn't have to clean it entirely, but was given a cloth to help with the cleaning briefly - point being, there's a good reason to puke in the toilet. (Said puker still holds that against my mom, after being told by "better people" how abusive it was.) I would note that my mom (who ran the family business at home) had four puking kids at the time. We were camped out in front of the bathroom door and everyone was clear on where they were supposed to puke and why. Just because kids are sick does not automatically mean the mom has endless energy to clean puke. I've actually never cleaned my own puke (and when pregnant I was puking up to 12 times a day). We always use a trash can, plastic bag, bowl, or toilet, but for those times when it has ended up happening elsewhere I have never had to take care of it myself. It would have only made me sicker anyway. My dds have had some epic moments in regards to vomit but I would not ever let them help clean it. In regards to the OP, my biggest learning moments were those when I was extended grace rather than punishment. I try my best to remember that with my own dds and it seems to be working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Agreed! A thousand times. I hate to be rude, but, Arctic Mama, I think you really need to reevaluate your focus on discipline. You have a gaggle of young children and a lot on your hands. I understand that you need to have some control and discipline. But, please consider finding time for reflection and self-care before your focus on discipline escalates to abuse, if it hasn't already. If you've already crossed that line, then, please, please, please, get some professional help and maybe some "me-time" to help you tone down and focus on love, not discipline. In just a few years, your babies are going to be teens, and soon, they'll be bigger and stronger than you, and they already out number you. If your relationship is so power-focused, you are going to have a very rough time of it in a few years, and a few years after that, you are going to either never see many or all of your kids, or you are going to be paying some very hefty therapy bills for those kids. In thousands of posts, I think this is the first time I've said the abuse word focused on a mom here. I really don't mean to be hateful. I am just hoping that your kids are young enough, and you are as yet a not-completely-set-in-stone mom, that maybe someday, after your inevitable angry reply to me, after you block me, and after I block you . . . well, someday, maybe this comment might help you change sooner rather than later. Wow, I guess it is an absolute miracle that most people raised in my generation still love and care for their parents. My sister who had to help clean her puke is at my parents' house every day. Just because a consequence might not have been right for your child does not make it abuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 No. My boys spend much more than that with a sponge (markers, walls; crayons, walls)... I think it's jumping to that because of the reason for the sponge - a young, sick child vomited and was made to clean up their own vomit as punishment for getting out of bed. I just can't... imagine... what my relationship would be with my parents if such punishments took place in my childhood home. I would call it a natural consequence, not a punishment. I don't understand. The common advice for a potty training kid who has "accidents" when we think he can make it to the toilet is that the kid should help clean up the pee. Why is this not abuse, if helping to clean the puke is horrific abuse? I know we're talking about someone sick enough to puke, but in my experience, one usually feels much better after puking. :P It's only puke. One's own recent stomach and mouth contents. At what point did someone decide that puke is a substance no child should touch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 The only time I punish a child for an accident is when they were being deliberately imprudent. That is not often. I don't even remember the last time I actually yelled about an accident. We just clean it up together and that's that. ETA after reading the thread...kids puke on bedsheets. Happens. I clean it up. Why? Because cleaning up while I'm sick is the LAST thing I want to do, and I want to extend that race to the person who is sick. I am their nurse. Meaning, I take care of them like they are in the hospital, and my nurses never made me clean my own bedding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 I would call it a natural consequence, not a punishment. I don't understand. The common advice for a potty training kid who has "accidents" when we think he can make it to the toilet is that the kid should help clean up the pee. Why is this not abuse, if helping to clean the puke is horrific abuse? I know we're talking about someone sick enough to puke, but in my experience, one usually feels much better after puking. :p It's only puke. One's own recent stomach and mouth contents. At what point did someone decide that puke is a substance no child should touch? I've never heard of making a child clean up his own potty accidents unless the potty accident occurred because the child decided not to use the restroom (i.e. playing, etc). I have never, not once, made my children clean up their potty messes. Regardless, if you can't see the difference between a potty training toddler being asked to help mom mop up the piddle, and a sick child being made to clean their own vomit... well, I've got nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chocolatechip Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 When my husband was around the age of eight or so, he was told to go out to the shed to feed the mama dog and her litter of new puppies. Dh accidentally shut the door tight, which made the shed overheat. All the puppies died. FIL made dh bury each one in the back yard as "punishment". As much as I loved my late FIL, I just think that was way over the top. DH is still traumatized by that experience to this day. The mere grief and remorse he felt was an age appropriate "punishment", and as the parent I would have buried the dead puppies myself. I liked this, but not because I "like" what happened to your poor DH. I just agree with your point, if you know what I mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 I wouldn't punish if it was an honest accident. However, if the accident occurred due to negligence that could have been prevented, I would incur some sort of consequence, ie, reparations or something. And I would likely do a firm scolding, but that's just because I'm human and don't think before I act. (LOL) I tend to agree with this. Many things my kids have tried to claim as accidents happened as a direct result of something they had been told not to do a million times. You didn't break the bowl by accident, if you were playing ball in the house. The bowl was broken because you were breaking rules that are in place to prevent such things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Yeah, that's a crap situation you had there. Total accident. You didn't deserve the punishment. I think it's mean to punish someone for an accident. Any normal kid already feels bad when they cause damage from an accident. I could see asking a kid to help repair something if that is age-appropriate, but spanking or making them pay money or grounding them? That's just a big old meany parent power trip, AFAIC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 I tend to agree with this. Many things my kids have tried to claim as accidents happened as a direct result of something they had been told not to do a million times. You didn't break the bowl by accident, if you were playing ball in the house. The bowl was broken because you were breaking rules that are in place to prevent such things. Well, that's not even an accident. That's being willfully reckless. Totally different than the OP's scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 When my husband was around the age of eight or so, he was told to go out to the shed to feed the mama dog and her litter of new puppies. Dh accidentally shut the door tight, which made the shed overheat. All the puppies died. FIL made dh bury each one in the back yard as "punishment". As much as I loved my late FIL, I just think that was way over the top. DH is still traumatized by that experience to this day. The mere grief and remorse he felt was an age appropriate "punishment", and as the parent I would have buried the dead puppies myself. That is so wrong. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-rap Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 I would never punish my kids for an honest accident. Don't we all have those from time to time? I'd expect them to help me clean it up. :) If it were an honest accident that could obviously have been prevented, then we'd sit down and talk it through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwik Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 I liked this, but not because I "like" what happened to your poor DH. I just agree with your point, if you know what I mean.i would feel terrible for not checking on the puppies. An 8 year old wouldn't even be aware that his actions could kill the puppies. When ds7 broke the ministers window after being warned not to kick the ball towards the house more than once I made him go and explain what happened. He has been more careful since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan Wise Bauer Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 This thread seems to be veering in an accusatory direction...so I'm closing it for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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