If you have read the math book by LIPING MA...

[Heather in Neverland]

Which math curriculum most closely follows the math principles in that book? I just read it and found it to be fascinating...lots of a-ha moments!

[brehon]

I would think any curriculum which teaches math conceptually, not formulaically (I'm almost positive that's not spelled right, sorry). My personal experience is with Singapore and Right Start. Both of these programs teach kids various ways to find the answers to problems and draw connections between seemingly disparate concepts (a la that concept map in Dr. Ma's book).

 

I haven't used any other programs, so can't comment on them.

[SonshineLearner]

There are tons of threads about Singapore on here... I really had no idea how much I'd like it till I started. In fact, I love it so much... I'm gonna try their Science....

Carrie:-)

[cathmom]

Spy Car told me Right Start.

[hornblower]

I've always heard it mentioned in the same breath as Singapore.

 

I read Liping Ma's book years ago but I don't remember much of it anymore. Menopause brain.....

[Jen500]

Singapore...probably others too. I think a big part of it is also the teacher. I need to go read that book again!

[Spy Car]

I'd think:

 

Singapore

Right Start

MEP

Miquon

Tokyo Shoseki

 

All these seem in line with the kind of deep understanding of mathematics Dr Ma illustrates is possible in her book.

 

It is an eye-opening read, no?

 

Bill

[happygrrl]

Slight hijack:

Would I understand this book?

I have a deep lack of understanding where math is concerned. I am using DVD tutors right now, and intended to outsource math as soon as is practically possible. I am not unintelligent, grew up in the GT program, just not gifted in numbers at. all. (I mean, to the point I cannot remember phone numbers, as they are composed of...well... numbers.)

 

Would this book help me? I am just starting the CD basic Math series for myself, but want to understand. I would love to teach using Singapore for my youngest who is math intuitive (like his papa), but I am perplexed just looking at them sitting on the shelf.

[Heather in Neverland]

I'd think:

 

It is an eye-opening read, no?

 

Bill

 

Absolutely. I am an "algorithm" person. I can follow directions, follow a formula, but have little understanding of the "why" behind the math. Reading that book was like a giant light bulb. Now I am looking further into it both for my kids at home and for students at work. My school is about half asian and half westerners but my teachers are ALL westerners and teach american-style, algorithm-only math. That needs to change.I am thinking of getting copies of this book for all my teachers and using it for PD. But then I want to get a good curriculum to use at home for my boys (and look into one that could be used in a classroom setting for my students).

 

This book should be required reading for all elementary teachers!

[Heather in Neverland]

Slight hijack:

Would I understand this book?

I have a deep lack of understanding where math is concerned. I am using DVD tutors right now, and intended to outsource math as soon as is practically possible. I am not unintelligent, grew up in the GT program, just not gifted in numbers at. all. (I mean, to the point I cannot remember phone numbers, as they are composed of...well... numbers.)

 

Would this book help me? I am just starting the CD basic Math series for myself, but want to understand. I would love to teach using Singapore for my youngest who is math intuitive (like his papa), but I am perplexed just looking at them sitting on the shelf.

 

YES YES YES!!!!! It easy very readable and it will change the way you look at math.

[happygrrl]

YES YES YES!!!!! It easy very readable and it will change the way you look at math.

 

It is so good to get "hijack forgiveness" from the OP!! Thanks!

 

I am excited to think I could read this, as I have looked at it a few times and was too nervous to buy it. I am going to go for it!

[Spy Car]

Slight hijack:

Would I understand this book?

I have a deep lack of understanding where math is concerned. I am using DVD tutors right now, and intended to outsource math as soon as is practically possible. I am not unintelligent, grew up in the GT program, just not gifted in numbers at. all. (I mean, to the point I cannot remember phone numbers, as they are composed of...well... numbers.)

 

Would this book help me? I am just starting the CD basic Math series for myself, but want to understand. I would love to teach using Singapore for my youngest who is math intuitive (like his papa), but I am perplexed just looking at them sitting on the shelf.

 

Yes, you would understand it.

 

Yes, you must read it. You don't need to buy it, see if you can get it from the library system. But it may (if you are like me) help you understand why the "math education" you received in a GT program may have left a lot to be desired. It likely will fire you teach Singapore (a good idea) or some other conceptual math program(s).

 

I read this when my son was in utero during a time I was pondering my role as a soon-to-be parent, and contemplating the educational ideals I'd hopefully inculcate. I knew in my bones there was something quite wrong with the shallow methods which with I was taught. And Liping Ma's book crystalized that understanding, and steeled my determination to do better. Much better.

 

The only down-side to this book is that it is not a "how to." That said it made a life-changing impression on me.

 

ETA: I've read mentions on this board of a "new edition" of the book is about to be released?

 

Bill

[Suzanne in ABQ]

Slight hijack:

Would I understand this book?

I have a deep lack of understanding where math is concerned. I am using DVD tutors right now, and intended to outsource math as soon as is practically possible. I am not unintelligent, grew up in the GT program, just not gifted in numbers at. all. (I mean, to the point I cannot remember phone numbers, as they are composed of...well... numbers.)

 

Would this book help me? I am just starting the CD basic Math series for myself, but want to understand. I would love to teach using Singapore for my youngest who is math intuitive (like his papa), but I am perplexed just looking at them sitting on the shelf.

 

 

 

If your teachers had read this book, you probably wouldn't be in the pickle you're in now! :)

 

Read the book. It compares and contrasts the way American teachers explain various concepts with the way Chinese teachers explain it. When you read the American teachers' explanations, you'll think, "That sounds vaguely familiar, but I still don't get it." Then, when you read the Chinese teachers' explanations of the same concept, you'll say, "Why didn't anyone ever explain this to me before!" (You'll be a little miffed for awhile, then you'll go forth and teach your kids to think mathematically! :D

 

The book was written as a PhD dissertation, so it is a little thick in places, but the case studies are fascinating, and you can pull out the parts that are useful to you.

[Heather in Neverland]

Spycar (and others)....would Singapore be a good program for group use (like a classroom)? Or is it more of an individual thing? How does MUS fit into the math spectrum?

[Jean in Newcastle]

Spycar (and others)....would Singapore be a good program for group use (like a classroom)? Or is it more of an individual thing? How does MUS fit into the math spectrum?

 

Singapore math is used in classrooms in Singapore. The teachers guides give more of what would be actually taught in the classrooms. The text part is what is done in class in the Singapore classrooms. The workbooks are taken home by the Singapore students as homework.

[Spy Car]

Spycar (and others)....would Singapore be a good program for group use (like a classroom)? Or is it more of an individual thing? How does MUS fit into the math spectrum?

 

As Jean said, Singapore Math (Primary Math) was developed for class-room in Singapore. My nephew is going to one of the most elite private schools here in Los Angeles (and one with a strong math-science emphasis) and they use Primary Math.

 

The "Standards Edition" version is approved for California public schools, and those districts that have used it have seen great gains in test scores. Sadly our district (the LAUSD) has not adopted it, so we'll mush on at home.

 

Singapore is just down the road from you, so maybe you could go on a feild-trip and check it out. If memory serves, there are several competing new math programs currently being used in Singapore, and some debate at to which programs are superior, the one we call "Singapore Math" or one of the current programs now used there.

 

But class-room use? Absolutely yes.

 

Bill

Edited December 15, 2009 by Spy Car

[Murphy101]

Hmmm interesting.

I might try the library for this.

 

So if one reads this and then wants to know how to implement its ideas, what book would the btdt crowd recommend?

[Spy Car]

Absolutely. I am an "algorithm" person. I can follow directions, follow a formula, but have little understanding of the "why" behind the math. Reading that book was like a giant light bulb. Now I am looking further into it both for my kids at home and for students at work. My school is about half asian and half westerners but my teachers are ALL westerners and teach american-style, algorithm-only math. That needs to change.I am thinking of getting copies of this book for all my teachers and using it for PD. But then I want to get a good curriculum to use at home for my boys (and look into one that could be used in a classroom setting for my students).

 

This book should be required reading for all elementary teachers!

 

If it were up to me every elementary school teacher and home schooling parent would read this book, because it would revolutionize math education.

 

You are in a position to "require" it, and I would do just that. In a heart-beat.

 

If you haven't seen the MEP materials, here is a link. It's a full curriculum (including lesson plans) that a creative teacher could teach along with Singapore (it's what I do) and there is no fee for their use.

 

http://www.cimt.plymouth.ac.uk/projects/mep/default.htm

 

Bill

[cathmom]

If it were up to me every elementary school teacher and home schooling parent would read this book, because it would revolutionize math education.

 

 

A long time ago, I attended a home school conference. At one session done by HSLDA, they emphasized how homeschool students did much better in language arts than public school students, and a bit better in math. Later in the day, I attended a session about unschooling by Susannah Scheffer, who used to be with Growing Without Schooling (John Holt's organization). She said that even many unschooling families used traditional math textbooks. I had an "aha!" moment. Homeschoolers had made great gains by NOT using traditional school methods for language arts, but then went back to textbooks (and at that time, Saxon was still king) for math. The higher scores were probably attributed to the tutoring-like atmosphere of home learning, but the methods were the same. This led me on a search for what to do differently, which led me to Montessori and Right Start.

[KJB]

Interestingly, I think what math program you use doesn't matter.

 

IMO, the whole point of the book is that the Chinese teachers understand the math and are able to explain it well.

 

She makes the point repeatedly that Chinese arithmetic teachers spend a lot of time planning lessons and trying to figure out how to best explain concepts. Even teachers who have been teaching for years spend time reviewing before they teach the lesson. Then, in the classroom, they spend a lot of time working through different student ideas about how to solve the same problems.

 

Also, when a student suggests a novel way to solve a problem, the teacher understands where the student is coming from and is able to key in to the method the student is using. Students aren't steered towards a "better" way (ie a way the teacher has been told to regurgitate the concept such as in the US).

 

I think if you are trying to revolutionize math instruction in your school, you (general *you*) should test your math teachers. Find out who knows what they're doing and have them re-teach those who don't.

 

In fact, it would be interesting to give the four problems in the book to your teachers and see how they do. Is that allowed? lol

 

The best math program in the world is irrelevant if your teacher doesn't understand the math.

 

I wanted to add that I am sometimes concerned about the idea that there is a magic bullet curriculum for any subject. A good teacher is what kids need to be successful and not the perfectly bound and worded version of a subject. IMO, of course.

Edited December 15, 2009 by KJB

[hornblower]

Interestingly, I think what math program you use doesn't matter.

 

IMO, the whole point of the book is that the Chinese teachers understand the math and are able to explain it well.

 

 

oooooh - flashback! Now that you mention it - I drew that same conclusion & conveniently buried it in my brain so I wouldn't have to worry about whether I was really up to the task. :lol:

 

 

 

I think a lot of curricula developers expect the student to learn by just doing it over and over again - that's where you get the people who learn the steps but don't learn why. There's a problem when the lesson is a few sentences in the text and the exercises run on for 4 pages. If the students know how to do it, why are they doing it for 4 pages? And if they don't know how to do it, or what they're really doing, will doing it for 4 pages really help?

 

The explanation (lesson) is often very vague & I swear it's often vague ON PURPOSE because some education philosophies put such a high value on the student figuring it out for themselves that they will not explain. All you get is tantalizing hints or leading questions. In some curricula, the basic explanations are there but then there are the 'extension' or 'challenge' questions which are I guess supposed to get the pupil to figure things out for themselves...... I hate those things with a passion because I never know what the heck they're talking about & all I get is this sense that I should know...and if someone just explained the in joke, I could join it.

 

BTW, I did very well in math right through university level calculus - integral & differential.

 

But - confession time - our first year of homeschooling I could not figure out Miquon. Never did. I have no clue what people do with it. Neither of my kids could figure it out either - they just stared at the pages and said, what do I do with this?

 

And I'm not so sure about MEP either - but that's the website layout, I think. I'm totally lost on that site.

[angela in ohio]

I thought the point of the book was that it is all about whether the teacher gets math and can teach it, not about the program you use.

 

I found that most of the examples of the correct way to teach math and understand math in that book were what I had been taught in school, and we used SF Exploring Mathematics back then. I think I had good, smart teachers, though. (Maybe that's why the book wasn't that revolutionary to me.)

 

Anyway, in order to impart an understanding of math to my dc, I have utilized parts of Montessori methods, Miquon, Singapore, and standard textbooks.

[Alice]

Interestingly, I think what math program you use doesn't matter.

 

IMO, the whole point of the book is that the Chinese teachers understand the math and are able to explain it well.

 

She makes the point repeatedly that Chinese arithmetic teachers spend a lot of time planning lessons and trying to figure out how to best explain concepts. Even teachers who have been teaching for years spend time reviewing before they teach the lesson. Then, in the classroom, they spend a lot of time working through different student ideas about how to solve the same problems.

 

Also, when a student suggests a novel way to solve a problem, the teacher understands where the student is coming from and is able to key in to the method the student is using. Students aren't steered towards a "better" way (ie a way the teacher has been told to regurgitate the concept such as in the US).

 

I think if you are trying to revolutionize math instruction in your school, you (general *you*) should test your math teachers. Find out who knows what they're doing and have them re-teach those who don't.

 

In fact, it would be interesting to give the four problems in the book to your teachers and see how they do. Is that allowed? lol

 

The best math program in the world is irrelevant if your teacher doesn't understand the math.

 

I wanted to add that I am sometimes concerned about the idea that their is a magic bullet curriculum for any subject. A good teacher is what kids need to be successful and not the perfectly bound and worded version of a subject. IMO, of course.

 

I think this is true. But, as someone who did well in math, even advanced math (through differential equations in college) but never really felt like I "got" math, I think a good curriculum can help you become a better teacher.

 

One of the things I liked in the Ma book was the idea that basic math isn't basic, that you have to really understand the fundamentals before you move on. That has helped me a lot in how I approach math with my son. I like Singapore and MEP because I feel like they give me the tools I'm missing to explain the basics better and to really understand the why behind what I am teaching.

[Spy Car]

I think a good curriculum can help you become a better teacher.

 

Exactly! That's the point of good math materials. They help make us better teachers. Many of us (self-included) were raised with a largely "analogue-only" (here's HOW to solve a problem) type math education.

 

A person with a deep conceptual understanding of math, and know how to teach, could do so with means of their own making.

 

But for those of us who want to do better for out children, but need help to get there, great math materials make a huge difference.

 

One of the things I liked in the Ma book was the idea that basic math isn't basic, that you have to really understand the fundamentals before you move on. That has helped me a lot in how I approach math with my son. I like Singapore and MEP because I feel like they give me the tools I'm missing to explain the basics better and to really understand the why behind what I am teaching.

 

I feel exactly the same.

 

Bill

[KJB]

My degree is math heavy but I learned a lot about teaching math from Saxon 1 when I began my home school journey 8 years ago. I've since taught other programs and read a lot about math education.

 

What has helped my students more than anything is my efforts to learn how to teach and understand. I agree Singapore is good (and fun!), but it's not going to solve any problems (no pun intended) unless the teachers put in the time to understand what they're teaching.

 

The Chinese teachers put in the time.

 

That's the difference.

[hsmamainva]

ETA: I've read mentions on this board of a "new edition" of the book is about to be released?

 

 

Yes....according to the Border's website, a new edition is coming out January 21st. :D

[EKS]

Singapore and RightStart are the ones I've used that follow it.

 

ETA: When I say "follow it" I mean that the material is presented in such a way to avoid the pitfalls of the problems discussed in the book. The book, being about teacher knowledge, wasn't advocating any particular type of program, only that the teacher needs to have a "profound understanding" in order to properly teach any program.

Edited December 16, 2009 by EKS

[happygrrl]

Yes, you would understand it.

 

Yes, you must read it. You don't need to buy it, see if you can get it from the library system. But it may (if you are like me) help you understand why the "math education" you received in a GT program may have left a lot to be desired. It likely will fire you teach Singapore (a good idea) or some other conceptual math program(s).

 

 

Bill

 

Read the book. It compares and contrasts the way American teachers explain various concepts with the way Chinese teachers explain it. When you read the American teachers' explanations, you'll think, "That sounds vaguely familiar, but I still don't get it." Then, when you read the Chinese teachers' explanations of the same concept, you'll say, "Why didn't anyone ever explain this to me before!" (You'll be a little miffed for awhile, then you'll go forth and teach your kids to think mathematically! :D

 

 

Thank you both!