Social Issues

[joannqn]

Rambling thoughts/questions about my son ahead...

 

I worry about my 7yo son and social issues. When he was younger, he was diagnosed as severely delayed in several developmental areas. He has since caught up in all of those areas except social skills. I don't know if his social skills issues are due to the previous delays, being accelerated, or some other unknown diagnosis (aspergers has been suggested).

 

He tends to follow his older sister's lead. He plays well with her most of the time. There are incidents where she's in tears from him "yelling at her" or where he's in tears from her "telling me what to do". He can get intense and angry and loud at times. She can be bossy at times, but sometimes her polite requests come across as "telling me what to do" to him. Overall though, they get along.

 

He also follows her lead in playing with friends. As long as it is both of them, he can play with friends and be fine. If it is just him, though, he tends to have trouble. I've heard complaints like "he doesn't want to do what I want", "I don't want to play what he is playing", "he was playing the music toy too loud in my ear and I asked him to stop and he didn't so I don't like him/want to play with him again", "he's too young for me" (even if he is very close to same age), etc. He seems to always find some silly little fault in every boy I find for him to have a playdate with.

 

As far as what he prefers, he's admitted to preferring girls over boys, older kids (4-6 years older) over same age kids, and adults/parents. In group situations, he prefers hard-working, well-behaved kids over those that goof off. His favorite people are a 12 year old girl and an 11 year old boy...the adults.

 

Our park trip yesterday was a good example: he spent his time either completely alone or talking to the moms. My daughter, on the other hand, was the piped piper with a gaggle of younger kids following her around. It was unusual that my son wasn't playing with my daughter but I think he was put off by all the 2-5 year olds following her.

 

He doesn't like cars/trucks, lego, building toys, action figures, etc. He spends his time pretending with Webkinz stuffed animals with his sister, practicing math, studying history/science encyclopedias, practicing taekwondo, pretending to be in Lord of the Rings (including reciting Aragorn's full name and heritage), and playing on the computer. He likes to ride his bike but can't right now due to a huge hole in the tire (we need to replace the whole bike as it is too small anyhow but don't have the money). Not sure where to find 7 year old boys with comparable interests.

 

I don't really know what I'm asking. Maybe, what do you think, in general? What would you do? I've thought about boy scouts as it would be an opportunity for him to be around and meet other boys his age but I don't know how it would go over (or if we could afford it). He takes taekwondo 10 hours a week currently but there isn't a lot of social opportunity there. Still, the boys he talks to there are 10 and 11...they've both taken older brother type roles with him.

[Mommy22alyns]

My perhaps naive question is, why is it crucial for him to have friends his age? What's wrong with him preferring older kids as friends right now?

 

When I was a teenager, I distinctly remember asking my dad to please not try to "set me up" with other kids my age as friends. I was just fine hanging out with the adults.

 

I can't fully explain your son, but it could be completely innocuous and a combination of his acceleration and his personality.

 

:)

[joannqn]

I guess I should mention that he sometimes complains (is sad) that he has no friends. His friends are really sister's friends or people he sees during taekwondo but never outside of class.

[KarenNC]

If you think scouts would be of interest/benefit, check with the local council. There may well be systems in place to help with the start-up costs (handed down uniforms or materials, financial assistance, etc) that will help until he can participate in some of the fundraising projects that can be used to help defray his costs to participate. I know that Girl Scouts has financial assistance for the basics, including troop dues, uniform, materials and I have been told the Boy Scouts has something similar.

[EKS]

So here's the thing. There are kids who prefer the company of older kids/adults and my older boy is one of them. The question is *why* and for some kids it's because the older kids/adults are simply more interesting but for others it's because they are more *forgiving* of social inadequacies. In my son's case, I think it's a combination of the two.

 

From your post, it sounds like your boy is in the "older kids/adults are more interesting" category.

[KristenS]

My 7yo has loved Cub Scouts this year. All the boys in his den were quirky kids. He fit in great. LOL.

 

He likes cars as well as Webkinz, and has a zillion imaginary friends, based on the favorite book/movie of the moment. He does play reasonably well with his 4yo sister, though like all sibs they have their moments.

 

No close friends his age ... every time we make one, they move or something. The neighbor boy is three years older, but comes over to play because there aren't any other kids in the neighborhood. My best friend's kids are a bit younger than my son, but they play together okay. As for kids his age ... just not many around, except for his cub scout den. And that's a pretty small group.

 

I think a lot of our quirky kids enjoy older folks not just because they are more interesting, but because they're also more likely to be understanding of the 'younger kid' hanging around ... whereas kids the same age have expectations of behavior (and at 7 may not be able to compensate for the unexpected behaviors of other kids).

 

I don't know if any of my ramblings are helpful or not, just want to add that you're not alone.

[katilac]

I would focus on some social coaching first. Some kids just don't 'get it' - the social cues that are obvious to their peers and most people just sail right over their heads, and they need really explicit instruction on how to 'read' people and appropriately respond. I know there have been several books mentioned on the boards that break down social skills in this way, so you might try searching.

 

I'd probably work on these skills within situations he is already familiar with before trying something new - - just from reading these boards, it seems like Boy Scouts tends to be a bit conformist, not always the best place for the socially awkward to break in new friends (standard disclaimer: I'm well aware that not all troops are the same; just a tendency I've noticed!).

 

He has some interests that are pretty typical/popular for that age, so that's good. Is there a pattern to his complaints about other kids? Are they more frequent the longer the playdate is, or the more open-ended it is? Might it help to have 'planned' activities that take up much of the time? If he could get a few really positive experiences under his belt, it might boost his confidence in the more open-ended situations.

 

Now, before I let everyone know what a horrid, mean person I am, let me just say that I'm perfectly fine with kids having older or younger friends - - not having ONLY exact-same-age friends is a big plus of home schooling. I'm also a fan of the interesting adult/child conversaton. But . . .

 

But, the kids at the park who stand there and talk to the moms? They drive me nuts, I'm sorry. *cringes*

 

I know, I'm a terrible person. But when we are at home school group or the park, I expect my kids to go off and play (because hey, otherwise we could have stayed home, right?). In return for schlepping them around town, I get the chance to sit and talk to other adults, or quietly read a book.

 

I simply don't want to engage with somebody else's small child at any length. Tell me hello, tell me your exciting news, and go play.

 

I admit this because I think parents need to be aware that the adult is often not choosing to converse with a young child, so a kid that speaks to adults far more often than other kids would raise a red flag for me (concerning possible social skill issues).

 

It can also be a crutch for the child - - a pleasant conversation that doesn't require much effort and involves very little risk. Believe me, my kids aren't immune to this, but I definitely redirect them if they linger near the adults.

[kpupg]

This post got way longer than I planned so think of it as I'm throwing stuff out there FWIW. I don't mean to sound preachy, but I usually do, sigh.

 

I agree with everyone LOL.

 

I would not want to be the parent "stuck" in a conversation with a child at a play date or park day, for the same reasons as katilac.

 

There are some kids who just prefer older kids, and why not, if the older kids enjoy them, too. Expecting relationships to line up according to the accident of birthdate is just so ... public school! LOL

 

Kids with non-standard interests will almost always have fewer friends. Case in point: my ds14 can't stand playstation type games, so his social options are limited by the (maturity) ability of the other boys to forgo playstation for an hour or two of swordsmanship with PVC pipes or whatnot. My son won't compromise, and neither do the other boys. Sad, and a sign of our culture.

 

Social skills coaching is almost always helpful, even with gregarious kids. There are so many unwritten rules, how can we expect them to get it all by osmosis? I don't even know them all LOL.

 

On the "lonely" days, I console myself by reminding myself of how much worse it was when my kids were in a school. There they could not escape from the toxic behaviors. At least at home, they can have privacy and time to think and decide what is really important and what is just cultural fluff for them. I hope it is making them stronger inside.

 

All the best,

Karen

[rowan25]

I haven't read all of the responses yet; I can only comment on my own experience.

 

I have never gotten along with children/people my own age. I was very good at school and not interested in the same things as my peers. This made 2nd-10th grade miserable for me. Homeschooling wasn't an option--it wasn't legal here yet. I missed the qualification for gifted by one point, so I was never placed with my mental peers. I didn't feel like I found people I could relate to until college and by then, the social damage was done. I have always gotten along better with adults or people much older than me.

 

At the same time, I feel sad, from time to time, that I don't have more friends. My "friends" consist of my parents, my husband, and one friend I made in college. I always say I want to go out and do things with people. But I have never liked, and still don't, the same things as my peers. And frankly I don't want to put the energy into trying to maintain that type of relationship. It's too much work to "be friends" with someone whom you have barely anything in common with.

 

Sad to say, I don't have a magic answer for you. Except to say that I wouldn't worry as much about not having a same age friend for your son.

 

I guess I should mention that he sometimes complains (is sad) that he has no friends. His friends are really sister's friends or people he sees during taekwondo but never outside of class.

[rowan25]

:iagree:

Oh, I get that. I don't let my son talk to adults. For one thing, I don't think it is appropriate (unless he knows the person well), and it takes me a long time to trust a person.

 

And funny, I'm not a big kid person. I enjoy my own kids, but frankly I don't like being around a lot of kids. But I'm a kid magnet. I kid (har har) you not! They just gravitate towards me, and I don't.know.why!

:iagree:

[MariaT]

The Cub Scout idea is a great idea-- when we pulled our kids from school 4 years ago, Scouts was one of the things we kept the same. It has really opened doors for my kids.

 

I have a 7yo daughter who follows her older brother, 10, around also. They do lots and lots of imagninary play, depending on what books they are reading. Today it is building a house on the prairie because she is reading Little House books. Before it was making a space capsule from a box because he was reading about the space race. Before that they were re-enacting scenes from Artemis Fowler, Harry Potter, and Magic Tree House books. They are really each other's best friends, and they take care of each other. This is a good thing, for now and for the rest of their lives.

 

My 12yo also would rather hang around teens/ adults who share his interests than the kids his age. He will hang around the grownup table, and I will shoo him away. I think he is waiting to hear if I am going to talk about him. I remember doing this as a kid, as well. The adults were more interesting.

 

Scouts is helping him out because in his troop he can interact with boys from ages 11 to 18--the age mixing is encouraged as 'boy leading boy". Sometimes he prefers hanging out (bugging) the older scouts, but over time he has found a couple boys around his age who share his interests. And, sometimes, he feels lonely in the middle of the crowd. He is the most empathetic of my kids, and this is just part of who he is.

 

Just give it time, and offer him opportunities. When he is ready, he will make friends.

Maria

[Mom0012]

If your son is unhappy with his situation, you could try a book like "How to Raise your Child's Social IQ", by Cathi Cohen. My son took social skills classes at a center run by Cathi Cohen and it made a huge difference for him. They specifically taught him things like making sure you do what your friend wants to do at least part of the time, reading body language signals to determine when someone is friendly and approachable, conversation skills, and lots more.

 

While many children pick social skills up naturally, some children need to be taught these things explicitly. If you can get your child into a class, all the better because I think this is one area where it is nice if your child gets to practice with other children in a group.

 

Lisa

[heart'sjoy]

I'm following this thread because I too have a 7 year-old DS who has to pick up each social skill by role playing, and then building each skill into a habit.

 

 

things we've been working on:

 

• respecting people's personal space
  
• "Listening" to nonverbal cues
  
• limiting the length of his story when it's his turn to share
  
• asking himself will the person/ pet like this before proceeding
  
• how to back up and offer a handshake to older adults who like patting him on the head/should
  

There are days I wonder how to help teach and other days I'm so proud of the patience he shows with another child who's frustrating him.

 

My biggest goal is that he realize that people interaction is a skill set to learn and conquer like math or building a castle with a moat.

 

The biggest goal for me is that I not get embarassed but just pick one thing at a time to build on.:)

[AnitaMcC]

I'm following this thread because I too have a 7 year-old DS who has to pick up each social skill by role playing' date=' and then building each skill into a habit.

 

 

things we've been working on:

[list']

[*]respecting people's personal space

[*]"Listening" to nonverbal cues

[*]limiting the length of his story when it's his turn to share

[*]asking himself will the person/ pet like this before proceeding

[*]how to back up and offer a handshake to older adults who like patting him on the head/should

 

The biggest goal for me is that I not get embarassed but just pick one thing at a time to build on.:)

 

 

I have followed this thread too. I have three boys who struggle with social interactions. I just didn't have time to really respond-:001_smile:.

 

One (14yr old son) has Asperger Syndrome and sensory integratin dysfunction. He is highly intellectual, he prefers young children who he can take a big brother role with plus who will just do as he says and with adults. Peers his age he struggled with very much. He is getting better about it now that he is getting older. Basically his biological age needed to catch up to his mental age. Partly he likes adults much better because he doesn't have to figure out the social stuff. Adults tend to treat him as an adult and the discussions just go at Ds's level (unless he goes over the adults level). This son doesn't want many friends. One or two is enough for him.

 

10yr old Ds has ADHHHHHHHHHD. He is very active and he doesn't do social stuff well either. But he is very social... he tends to overwhelm other kids. He also loves to hang around younger kids... he just loves being their leader. He is very tender hearted and so with kids his age they tend to get nasty and he gets his feelings hurt.

 

8yr old Ds has autism spectrum disorder and ADHD. He pretty much just likes to do his own thing. He likes to be with other kids if they are playing like tag, chase, basketball, etc. He isn't into playing cars, etc. He loves legos though but then he does't play building things. He often just parallel plays.

 

Anyway, I make sure all my boys get social opportunities. They do Kung Fu, bowling league, and scouts. All are suppervised and so if adult guidance is needed it is available. One of the deals for homeschooling our twins (14 yr old son and daughter) is that son has to continue with social activities and he has to participate in them... not just go off on his own with a book.

 

Anita

[Garga]

And funny, I'm not a big kid person. I enjoy my own kids, but frankly I don't like being around a lot of kids. But I'm a kid magnet. I kid (har har) you not! They just gravitate towards me, and I don't.know.why!

 

Me too, Wendy. I don't enjoy talking to kids that aren't my own at all, but they follow me around...

[Mommy2BeautifulGirls]

And funny, I'm not a big kid person. I enjoy my own kids, but frankly I don't like being around a lot of kids. But I'm a kid magnet. I kid (har har) you not! They just gravitate towards me, and I don't.know.why!

 

My cats are the same way. If any of our friends who do not like or who are allergic to cats comes over, the cats come out! Cracks me up every time. :rofl::smilielol5:

[Granny_Weatherwax]

I guess I should mention that he sometimes complains (is sad) that he has no friends. His friends are really sister's friends or people he sees during taekwondo but never outside of class.

 

I understand your mother's heart. My son has expressed this same sentiment.

 

I haven't been able to resolve the issue but DH and I are always concocting ideas to help DS meet people. So far we have not been able to find any one who has similar interests as DS or who can keep up with him.

[Catwoman]

I understand your mother's heart. My son has expressed this same sentiment.

 

I haven't been able to resolve the issue but DH and I are always concocting ideas to help DS meet people. So far we have not been able to find any one who has similar interests as DS or who can keep up with him.

 

Same here. :(

 

Ds would be so happy if we could meet just one nice friend for him.

 

Cat

[Quad Shot Academy]

There was a book recommended in another thread that I just took on vacation with me. It has been immensely helpful to understand how other children might be viewing my son and it has exercises to do with the child. I can't recommend this book enough, if one of the personalities happens to suit your child. There was no personality for my daughter, but then again she doesn't have the social problems my son does, so maybe she is socially perfect. ;)

 

The Unwritten Rules of Friendship

[AngieW in Texas]

I have two kids on spectrum. My oldest I'm still not sure about. I've had two professionals tell me that she's Aspie, but she's so ADD that she doesn't present the way an Aspie normally does. She has more severe social issues than my middle dd who I know is Aspie. My youngest is a social butterfly.

 

My oldest gets upset that her two younger sisters "steal" her friends. The problem there is that my oldest expects a friend to follow her around and do only what she wants to do and she expects to be able to put her friend on hold, go away to do whatever she wants to do for an hour or more, and then pick up right where they left off. Even so, she has managed to find a group of friends through anime'/manga. They manage to get along with her only because they aren't around her all that much. Before she was 13yo, she never managed to keep a friend for more than one year. After that, the friend was just done with her. I have tried role-playing and many other things with this dd, but she is convinced that she knows everything and won't listen to me.

 

My middle dd is definitely Aspie (anybody who knows about Asperger's will suspect it within 15 minutes of conversation) has an easier time making friends, but after awhile, the friend usually switches to my youngest. Pokemon has been fabulous for her because it has given her something to talk about that other kids are actually interested in. She has two friends right now, a boy 2.5 years younger and a girl 3.5 years younger. She loves talking with adults, but I will steer her away from the adults after a few minutes because she'd be happy to talk to adults for hours. She tends to have kids under 7yo follow her around like groupies. They like the way that she interacts with them because she doesn't treat them like little kids. She has better social skills than her older sister.

 

My youngest is a social butterfly. She has no problem making or keeping friends. She gets irritated with her sisters a lot, but she does tend to watch out for the middle sister. She and the oldest don't get along at all.

[EmilyK]

I have a similar kid at age 10. The good news is that he seems to be currently in a situation where he has a fair number of kindred spirit friends. But now I'm cringing because he's the kid who likes to talk to parents at the park!

 

OK, so here's the deal. He's not Aspie, but is gifted and verbal and not great on intuiting the social rules. We've also not wanted to tell him that he can't like certain things because they're for girls, but that does turn off other boys at times. I just heard that a dad of a close friend of his said to my husband "well, they're just not as close anymore. I mean, [that dad's son] is really into sports and [my son] has girls over for playdates." I'm really torn about whether to clue him in to what's cool or expected, or keep with our plan of encouraging him to be himself.

 

Second issue -- he doesn't get the peer social rules intuitively (like his younger brother does), and yet he craves a lot of high level conversation. So at a dinner party he wants to hang out with the adults sometimes. (The good news is that he's very good at adult style conversation.) And at the park he will see dads who have taught him computer classes and want to engage them in conversation. I guess it would be good to know somehow who wants to talk to him, and who doesn't. I think I'm pretty good with people but even I don't know if silently some of these teachers or friends wish he would scram. I always get lots of compliments but now I'm not sure if I need to shoo him away.

 

I think the final factor is that I work, so I think he's often wanting to spend time with me, or me and my husband, when we're home from work. So if I get home from work and take him to a park BBQ, I get why he wants to sit by me for some of the time.

 

So thoughts welcome about how to tell when I should shoo him away from adults. (For what this is worth, these aren't homeschool park days, where I get that it might be respite time).

 

And I'm going to look for the threads about books on social issues for kids. I think he doesn't have enough issues to benefit from an Aspie type social skills class (I have some friends who have their child doing something along those lines), but books would be great.

 

With the OP, I do think it is hard when kids' interests aren't shared by other kids their age. My son went through a real dry spell of friends at 7 or 8 but has 3 to 4 good ones now, which seem to be more than enough. (His younger brother seems to want a huge social circle, but that's another issue.:001_smile:)