If you can put yourself in a deaf person's shoes, see inside..

[Merry]

Well, I feel like I'm sort of stuck at our church. My dh and I are totally deaf and need sign language to communicate. We've been going to this church for seven years now, the longest we've ever been at a church. It has a terrific youth and children's ministry and our children have absolutely thrived there. However, this church is one of the coldest churches we've ever been to. In all this time we've been going there, no one has invited us to their home for fellowship even though we've invited several families over the years. We started going there because an interpreter was there but she left after a couple years. By then, our sons were old enough to take over the interpreting. They don't seem to mind. But...they're starting to graduate and leave home one by one and we will have just one child left at home in two years and he'll be only ten years old. I feel more and more that we should find a church for ourselves and not worry so much about our children's being happy. Only a couple of people has learned some sign language during that time but as individuals, not as couples. Many families enjoy our children but they don't take the time to learn to communicate with us, parents, or to get to know us better. Well, some do but they are not close friends yet even after seven years. There's another church nearby with similar doctrines as ours and there are a couple people that knows sign language and are quite friendly. But they don't have regular interpretors and our boys don't really want to go there. It's getting harder for me to want to keep going to church now. I go just for my family's sake. What would you do if you were me? Would you go ahead and try to find another church that might have interpretors and pull up your children's roots just for your sake?

[flyingmommy]

I am not deaf, but if you were at my church, I would have learned to sign to communicate with you. Have you approached your pastor or Sunday school teacher to ask if perhaps you could teach a signing class? Or maybe just to let him know that you're feeling a bit ostracized. In my opinion, that's the kind of thing that a pastor should know about.

 

You said you had invited people over during the time you've gone to church there. Before you decide to leave, please spend some time in thoughtful prayer. It may be that God has placed you there to reach out to people and show them how to conquer their fears(?) of people with differences. You may have to be more proactive than you have in the past.

 

I'm probably saying this all wrong, and if so, I apologize. I do know the feeling of being "left out" in church, where you should never feel out of place. I hope that God gives you an answer soon.

 

Jeannie

[Remudamom]

I think I'd look around. Doesn't sound like much fellowship going on there.

[WTMCassandra]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

I was a church interpreter for several years. I really feel for you.

 

What I saw was hearing people afraid, not knowing how to approach a deaf person, so they just didn't. I'm sorry you're feeling so isolated.

 

And how frustrating that deaf people cannot go to church where they want to--they are subject to the few churches in town that have interpreters, whether the churches are a good fit or not.

 

The sign language class would be a good idea if it takes off. It would help you "create" a community of people who can interact with you. But I know that's a huge undertaking.

 

At the church where I used to attend and interpret, our deaf ministry got started in a similar way. A family showed up who had a deaf daughter (young teen). We had one CODA in the congregation who had retired from interpreting who stepped up to the plate. She quickly became overwhelmed and decided that if she was going to get some help, she needed to train some people. So she started a sign language class. As we got some people trained, word started getting out, and more deaf people started showing up. Soon we were able to get a retired deaf gentleman to come and teach a deaf Sunday School class. Over time, a good community developed.

 

My husband and I were in the first round of that sign language class. I had interpreter and deaf friends in college, but I had been carrying too heavy a load to learn ASL. So I had a prior interest, and when the class opened up and I knew of both a structured way to learn ASL and a place where I could use it, I signed up right away. So if you decide to start a class, you never know where it might go.

 

I now live 3000 miles away from that area, but if I ever see a deaf person while I'm out and about, I always try to stop, introduce myself, and have at least a short conversation. I hope it makes deaf people feel more included in the community.

 

All I can say is, if you came to my church, I would brush up on my skills and do my darndest to make sure you were as much a part of the community as anyone else.

 

As for what else you can do, when your older children leave home, perhaps that would be a good time to look for a church for you, your husband, and your youngest. Can the local interpreter's registry or deaf/hard of hearing agency help you find one? They usually are aware of which churches have deaf ministries.

Edited March 28, 2009 by WTMCassandra

[bettyandbob]

I'd find another church. Fellowship is a huge part of church attendance. An environment like you've described would not support me spiritually. There's a church in my area that specifically has a deaf ministry. I believe there other churches that have interpreters. I live near DC, so the fact that this is a large metropolitcan area and the home of Gaulledet has an effect on such opportunities.

[Merry]

three times over the past five years but nothing came of it really. The people mostly took them for fun or to communicate with deaf co workers or whatever. One couple did learn sign language but then they moved away. Oh, well. I'm thinking seriously of at least checking out other churches before deciding onw hat to do.

[WTMCassandra]

Oh, Merry, I'm so sorry. I just think that people tend to be so wrapped up in their own lives that they don't want to put in the time it would take to learn how to communicate. It's a sad thing. Yes, based on this additional information, I agree that it would be a good idea for you to check out some other churches.

[Lakeside]

Well, I feel like I'm sort of stuck at our church. My dh and I are totally deaf and need sign language to communicate. We've been going to this church for seven years now, the longest we've ever been at a church. It has a terrific youth and children's ministry and our children have absolutely thrived there. However, this church is one of the coldest churches we've ever been to. In all this time we've been going there, no one has invited us to their home for fellowship even though we've invited several families over the years. We started going there because an interpreter was there but she left after a couple years. By then, our sons were old enough to take over the interpreting. They don't seem to mind. But...they're starting to graduate and leave home one by one and we will have just one child left at home in two years and he'll be only ten years old. I feel more and more that we should find a church for ourselves and not worry so much about our children's being happy. Only a couple of people has learned some sign language during that time but as individuals, not as couples. Many families enjoy our children but they don't take the time to learn to communicate with us, parents, or to get to know us better. Well, some do but they are not close friends yet even after seven years. There's another church nearby with similar doctrines as ours and there are a couple people that knows sign language and are quite friendly. But they don't have regular interpretors and our boys don't really want to go there. It's getting harder for me to want to keep going to church now. I go just for my family's sake. What would you do if you were me? Would you go ahead and try to find another church that might have interpretors and pull up your children's roots just for your sake?

 

I'm so sorry you are feeling so isolated from others in your church. It is always hard to feel excluded from a place you would expect to feel embraced. :grouphug:

 

I don't know what your options are, but I would caution against finding something that is only better for you and your husband and might be less spiritually nurturing for your children. Is there someplace that might be a good fit for all of you? I've just had several people tell me they lament the fact that while their children were young they chose a church based strictly on what the parents needed or wanted and wished that they had been at a church which had been more spiritually nurturing for their kids.

 

Just something to think about. I hope you are able to find someplace that is a good fit for all of you.

[Jean in Wisc]

But I can tell you that our children have participated in AWANAS and other church activities that are not at our church. Is there any way to keep your children involved in some of the old church's kids activities even if you were to move to another church? You can always explain your situation to the people in your old congregation, saying that the available sign language sounds very good to you. That should be something they understand (I hope).

 

:grouphug:

[SonshineLearner]

Hmmm. I'm not sure what I'd do, but we've switched churches a bit.... We had always gone to one church, and it's just not a good fit for me. SO, when we switched, we let the kids keep going for Awanas and also for some of the jr high high school activities. If I were you, I'd think about letting my highschool age kids keep going to older church...and check out churches with my 7 year old.

Carrie:-)

(PS. Of course, I wish you were here! I took sign before moving to OK when I was 12. When I moved to OK it was during the time that schools were trying to not teach sign there...but rather just ...I guess ...reading lips... SO, as an adult, I've never finished learning to sign. I'd love someone to practice with...and ..well, I could use some good friends,too!)

[WTMCassandra]

I don't know what your options are, but I would caution against finding something that is only better for you and your husband and might be less spiritually nurturing for your children.

 

We need to cut Merry some serious slack. Hearing people can typically choose between hundreds of churches in any given area to find the right fit. Deaf people are lucky if they can find 3-5 churches in an area to choose from based on who has interpreters.

 

She's already feeling guilty and selfish enough. Let's give her some breathing space.

[WTMCassandra]

But I can tell you that our children have participated in AWANAS and other church activities that are not at our church. Is there any way to keep your children involved in some of the old church's kids activities even if you were to move to another church? You can always explain your situation to the people in your old congregation, saying that the available sign language sounds very good to you. That should be something they understand (I hope).

 

:grouphug:

 

This is a good idea, Jean! This has the potential to work, if the churches are fairly close to one another. It wouldn't be perfect, but it might be more helpful than they way things are now.

[Tutor]

Emily, I am so sorry that you are experiencing this. The last church that we attended had a deaf ministry that was started by a deaf couple at the church. It included a class for anyone that wanted to learn sign and interpreters (sometimes certified, sometimes not) in the services. Our family used to sit in the "deaf section" with the signers and learned enough sign language to begin building some nice relationships. Then we moved. :glare: Our current church has no official ministry to the deaf, but I keep attempting to create glosses and keep up with signing the hymns and prayers to stay in practice. There are also quite a few international students at our current church who speak a variety of languages - French, Chinese, Japanese, Hindi, and Portuguese are the ones I can think of off hand. I can speak none of these, but try my best to communicate. I have no idea how to start a class to begin to learn these languages, so I am hoping that these people will just let me hang around them more and more so that I can learn and get to know them better.

 

I am not really sure what advice to give you. I have shared my own experience because it has seemed to me that those who are in the minority seem to have instigated the classes and such, but you have already attempted to do that. I'm not sure if changing churches will change your experience or just provide some hope of improvement for awhile.

 

How has the leadership of the church responded? I find it odd (and aggravating, to be honest) that they have not gone out of their way to provide an interpreter. It seems very unloving and rude not to have done so.

 

I'll be praying that you find can find close fellowship. I wish I could offer it personally. Blessings to you all.

[MOHeather]

Emily,

 

I simply cannot believe what a small world it is! It's Heather- Ben's mom. You know I don't know ASL very well, but am sad to hear no one in your church has made the effort to communicate with you and Wayne. :crying: I think you are wonderful and am so excited to get to know you more. We would love to have you visit E-Free. I think D. would fit in wonderfully in our children's program. I don't know about S. and B. I think you need to think most about you and your husband now. D. will be happy where you guys are happy. :grouphug:

 

Love, Heather

[3littlekeets]

As you know in your heart, church is about finding fellowship and commitment to God's love. "Tolerance" of difference is not longer acceptable. We need to find ways to bridge divides and it doesn't seem that your church is doing that. If you kids are old enough that you are thinking about their eventual departure, they are certainly old enough to talk with about this issue.

 

I have a daughter with an intellectual disability (Trisomy 21) and our two typically developing children understand that as a family, we find the right places for us as a family -- none of us are individuals with needs that are above the needs of us as family. Sometimes it is hard -- sometimes it is easy, but in the end, I know my children understand the importance of love, fellowship, and family.

 

I'd chat with your children and explain to them your dilemma. They might be seeing how you are excluded and hurting-- but not willing to bring it up.

 

Huge hugs! I hope you find a place with people eager to learn sign. We did b/c it helped my daughter with speech, and WOW! It has expanded my social circle tremendously :-). :lol:

[Sweetpeach]

Hi Merry,

We share our home with a deaf man; he lives in our lower level apartment.

 

I'm sure he could have written your post, word for word. I feel overcome with guilt because I need to learn signing so I can be part of his community. It's tough . . . learning a whole new language and I get so frustrated with myself when even the easiest words get lost in translation.

 

I think if nobody at your church has tried to get to know you, despite having your children as interpreters, than I think it would be ok to find a different community where you could worship. If our deaf friend had an interpreting friend, then I'd have no excuse for not pressing in with him. Truthfully, that would be so much easier . . .

 

I really believe your youngest son would understand that you and your spouse need community. It's not like you're leaving your church in a snit . . . not having any growing friendships at a church is heart-breaking. Your son could maintain friendships outside of Sunday morning by having regular play sessions.

 

Wishing you well, Merry. :grouphug:

 

Love, Tricia

[Sweetpeach]

We need to cut Merry some serious slack. Hearing people can typically choose between hundreds of churches in any given area to find the right fit. Deaf people are lucky if they can find 3-5 churches in an area to choose from based on who has interpreters.

 

She's already feeling guilty and selfish enough. Let's give her some breathing space.

 

:iagree::iagree:

 

I'm raising my decaf coffee and offering up a hearty :cheers2: to lots of slack, tons of breathing space and depths of grace like you've never experienced before!

[Lovedtodeath]

Praying for you. :grouphug:

[Veritaserum]

:( I interpreted for a deaf child at our church a few years ago. I was happy to help her be more included in the children's classes. I'm not sure how populated your area is, but friends of ours (hearing) with three deaf children go to a specifically Deaf congregation. It's mixed with hearing and deaf (since families are mixed), but all the communication is in ASL. One of my ASL teachers in college goes to that church, too. I wonder if there's anything like that where you are?

 

I hope you find a great solution. :grouphug:

[WTMCassandra]

I'm not sure how populated your area is, but friends of ours (hearing) with three deaf children go to a specifically Deaf congregation. It's mixed with hearing and deaf (since families are mixed), but all the communication is in ASL. One of my ASL teachers in college goes to that church, too. I wonder if there's anything like that where you are?

 

 

Wow, that's AWESOME. Unfortunately, I believe it is also quite rare to have that kind of church situation available, unless it is located near a state deaf school or other such center of deaf activity (Gallaudet, NTID, etc.).

[Lovedtodeath]

Wow, that's AWESOME. Unfortunately, I believe it is also quite rare to have that kind of church situation available, unless it is located near a state deaf school or other such center of deaf activity (Gallaudet, NTID, etc.).

 

Jehovah's Witnesses have a deaf congregation in almost every city. :)

 

20 minutes from my home in IN there are 4 spanish congregations, one japanese, 2 deaf, and 7 english. Those are just the ones I know of.

[specialmama]

How has the leadership of the church responded?

 

I'm curious as well, Emily. Have you written to the pastoral staff? Perhaps they'd be willing to bring on an interpreter? If they are willing (and we don't know until they're asked or until you let us know what their answer was) then I bet more people from the deaf community would attend that church.

 

I'm sorry you're going through this. We experienced this a few years ago due to my son's disability (severe autism.) I even stayed home with him for 10 months because nobody was willing to be his one-on-one aide. Out of a congregation of over 7,000 people, nobody was stepping up. It was so discouraging. Just when we were ready to find another church, a lovely lady whom the Lord chose in His timing, stepped up and welcomed the opportunity to be my son's aide. Feeling unwelcome in a church is a very yucky thing indeed.... but God will work out for good! We can trust that! :grouphug: Hugs to you, sister...

[G5052]

Some years back when my husband became disabled we realized how unfriendly our church building was to the disabled. It's an old building and really can't be modified, but there are some significant barriers there. It was immensely hard then for him to come out, something that I don't think many appreciated. And then we one day realized that we also didn't get invited over other than by a few families who had dealt with disability themselves and were willing to make the accomodations for him to come.

 

And now that DH has to stay home because of that disability, we haven't been invited over by another two-parent family in over a year. I guess there's a level of unease over our situation. I find myself increasingly hanging out with the never-married, widows, and divorced folks, which is fine because they dote on my children and are available for evening calls when I need a friend. But it's different than it was.

 

I'm sorry that you are going through this. It's very hard when you're part of a segment that gets excluded at church. We live there too, but take comfort in the friends that we do have. :grouphug:

[Merry]

Our church did try to find another interpretor after our interpretor left the church but they couldn't find any. The pastor's wife does know a few signs herself but the pastor doesn't. The pastor has a lot on the plate and he did admit to the church that our church is known to be a cold church within the community so it's not just me that is feeling the chill. But the youth ministry is top notch where my ds who is graduating has learned a lot about being a leader and is going to the Moody Bible Institute because of that. But I think we will eventually leave if we want to reach out to the deaf community and the church has to be a warm and welcoming place for that to happen. And for my youngest son's sake too because he's hard of hearing and he's not really making friends. We don't know of any churches in the area that has interpretors but then again we haven't checked into that for a couple years. We should try again.

[Merry]

about our need for fellowship with sign language so that even though our teens would still be going to that church for the youth group, they would be going to whatever church we choose to go on Sun. for that reason. I'm sure they would understand. That should make it easier to make the change, if we do. Thanks.

[Merry]

....

[Merry]

I enjoyed talking to you a few days ago and look forward to seeing you again soon. There are people at my church that do talk to me sometimes but I can't talk back to them so I end up just saying yes or huh huh and write on paper if I want to say something and so far they haven't really learned sign language like I said earlier. We'll wait and see how it goes with our older kids and also keep our eyes open for any better situations for us if any.

[WTMCassandra]

You are most certainly welcome. Please PM me if there's any way I can encourage you or be of assistance.

[dalynnrmc]

But I can tell you that our children have participated in AWANAS and other church activities that are not at our church. Is there any way to keep your children involved in some of the old church's kids activities even if you were to move to another church? You can always explain your situation to the people in your old congregation, saying that the available sign language sounds very good to you. That should be something they understand (I hope).

 

:grouphug:

 

I agree. Your children have different needs than you do - and maybe one place cannot meet all of those needs. So, it seems that working out a schedule where all of you can get what you need might be the only way.

 

I think of ASL like a foreign language. I know a tiny bit, just like I know a tiny bit of Spanish. (I live in south Texas... my spanish is much better than my asl. LOL) If I were in a Spanish-speaking church, where the kids would probably be able to speak English and communicate with my kiddos but I wasn't being fed.. I would likely allow my children to participate in some activity there - AWANA or whatever the Wednesday program is, etc. - and go where I could be fed at the time the feeding occurs.

 

For our family, the church where we as adults are fed meets on Saturday evenings. There is a basic childcare nursery, but no spiritual activities for the kids. They attend AWANA at the baptist church on Sunday. :) (My husband's work schedule doesn't allow us to attend "normal" Sunday morning services; the group we attend with most often uses the building of another church, and thus meets on an odd-day - Saturday... has nothing to do with Sabboth. LOL I get asked that a lot.)

 

 

Anyway. If you are not being spiritually fed, even your children will suffer the consquences. Prayers uplifted for you! :) I agree with others commenting about praying for guidance - the Lord has your answer!!

[Guest Michelle]

I want to start by saying that I have not had the time to read all the other posts but you caught my eye with your post.

 

One question I want to ask you is... Are you plugged in at your church? I mean do you serve somewhere? The reason I think this is important is because if those serving with you are not even trying then maybe your season at that church has ended.

 

A little about my perspective is this, I have always wanted to communicate with the few deaf people that I have come accross so at a young age I learned the alphabet. But that takes time to spell everything out. I learned a few little phrases here and there over the years such as How are you? and good but that is not enough to really communicate.

 

With our youngest child (16 mon now) I tried early on to teach him some sign like milk, more, please, apple, just basic stuff. It drove my husband NUTS! I don't know that he had met a deaf person ever and did not see the point in teaching our baby. Then Ethan came into ours lives. My husband heads up our Outreach Ministry at church and Ethan started coming because a friend was coming and now he is a very important part of that ministry and our church. My husband has actually learned a few signs. Our church is trying to build up and ASL ministry but we do not have interpreters at this time, just people willing to learn. But they are willing to learn. When we play video clips we try to add the subtitles. They are small things and no where near what is needed but we are trying. After saying all of this I will now say that I have been thinking about inviting Ethan to a different local church just to check out their ASL service. I love my church but I know that there is a gap between what is taught and what a non-hearing person learns. I would like to see how they work the service and how we can try to implement it one day at our own church. I know its hard to leave a church when you have been going there for a while but maybe God has something much bigger in store for you somewhere else.

 

I hope at least part of this made sense as I am very tired yet unable to sleep,

 

Michelle

[Rosie_0801]

At the very least, the minister preaching should be able to give you a copy of his notes, yes? That way you can read along during the sermon.

 

:grouphug:

Rosie- with a half deaf dh

[Lakeside]

We need to cut Merry some serious slack. Hearing people can typically choose between hundreds of churches in any given area to find the right fit. Deaf people are lucky if they can find 3-5 churches in an area to choose from based on who has interpreters.

 

She's already feeling guilty and selfish enough. Let's give her some breathing space.

 

I'm sorry if my post was offensive to you, Cassandra, or to you, Merry. That was not at all my intention. I was simply responding to the original post, which asked:

What would you do if you were me? Would you go ahead and try to find another church that might have interpretors and pull up your children's roots just for your sake?

[WTMCassandra]

I'm sorry if my post was offensive to you, Cassandra, or to you, Merry. That was not at all my intention. I was simply responding to the original post, which asked:

 

((Shannon))) It's OK. The title of the post also talked about putting oneself in a deaf person's shoes. I thought it was important to keep in mind that it is harder for a deaf person to find a church than a hearing person due to severely limited choices based on interpreter availability. I didn't think you were offensive, just perhaps unaware. I didn't want Merry to feel blindsided when she had taken the risk to reach out here.

[LucyMcGillicuddy]

My husband is an interpreter for the deaf. There were many years (about 8 or so) that he interpreted our church service. After all that time, he told the deaf and our pastor and session that he felt he needed to be in the pew to help shepherd his family but was willing to find and schedule interpreters. He told them that in order for the worship service to continue to be interpreted, the interpreters would have to be paid. The pastor and session agreed to it. He told the session what rate he would like to pay the interpreters (below the standard rate). He would also periodically check in with the deaf people to find out if they were understanding the interpreters and if everything was clear. If so, then that interpreter was added to the rotation. He did have to let one go because their skill level was not high enough.

 

Do you think that may be an option with your church? Do you know any interpreters that have the skills and would be willing?

 

Bonnie

[Liz CA]

I think I'd look around. Doesn't sound like much fellowship going on there.

 

Merry, my grandmother was practically deaf but she never learned to sign. I learned early on as a child (we lived across the street from each other) to speak clearly and slowly so she could read my lips. When I was still younger she did have a hearing aid but one had to yell so loud that communication relying on the hearing aid was not feasible in a public place.

 

Having had experience with a deaf person I would not hesitate to communicate with someone if they could read my lips. If you and your dh are able to do this, let people know! Many would likely easily adjust to this than undertake learning how to sign because they fear it's difficult or takes time.

[Rosie_0801]

Having had experience with a deaf person I would not hesitate to communicate with someone if they could read my lips. If you and your dh are able to do this, let people know! Many would likely easily adjust to this than undertake learning how to sign because they fear it's difficult or takes time.

 

If only it'd be that simple. Training hearing people to be lip-read also takes time and that falls through in any conversation with more than about three people talking. Only about 30% of English is visible on the lips and lipreading for long periods tends to leave the person feeling like they've been in a maths exam all day.

 

Rosie

[Ellie]

If you were a hearing person and were not being fed spiritually or emotionally, you'd find another church. I don't see any reason for you not to find a church where there are not only interpreters but more actual deaf people. :-)

 

I interpreted in church for many years. :-)

[MommyJo]

I think you should move churches. The Lord has put the idea of switching in your mind for a reason. If you want a nice, friendly church group and your not getting it, it may draw you away from the Lord. Not in the sense it sounds. Let me see if I can word this right. If you already are just going "for your family's sake" then not having a loving church is interferring with your relationship with God. You should be excited to go and to worship and know that you are going to learn lots while you are there. Some churches may find an interpreter if they know you would like to be a part of their congregation. They may not have one because they do not have any individuals that are deaf but may agree. Just check around.

[lynn]

I have known several families that drop bring their children to a different church than they attend. Can your children attend the youth and children activities at your current church while you find a church that meets your needs?

[CalicoKat]

Thank you for starting this thread.

[Merry]

a woman just popped up at church and said she's an interpretor and is interested in joining our church. My goodness. That's amazing. So I guess we'll be staying there for a bit longer at least and see how it goes. And also, another long time member walked up to me and started to sign a little. I was so surprised because she had never signed or finger spelled to me before and our children have been close friends for several years. You just never know:) Thank you all of you for your support. That means a lot to me.