Suggestions for entertaining infant!

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

MY BABY IS ASLEEP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Call choirs of angels!

 

This may just be chance, but the first thing I tried, because of her absolute fascination with print, was alphabet cards. I used some old business cards and wrote the letters of the alphabet on their backs, upper and lowercase separate, vowels in a different color. Then I pulled out about 8 or 10 letters I thought were both common and distinctive in written form and sound, and I "flashed" through them, making their sounds. Then I took out two and showed them one at a time and made the sounds of each. And then I put one on each hand and made the sound of the one I wanted her to pick. She got the idea right away--and apparently, this is HARD WORK for a baby! Completely exhausting but exciting at the same time! After 15 minutes last night, she was a limp blob of panting bonelessness. It was AWESOME. She slept 12 hours straight, only waking to feed!

 

It worked today, too! I've gotten two naps out of her, and she's now down for either her third nap or for the night--I'm not sure which. You should SEE the mental effort she puts forth. (When she chooses the right one, she eats it, so I'm going to need new ones, soon. When she chooses the wrong one--not that often anymore--she puts it back.)

 

WOO-HOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Wow.

 

Make sure she gets 15 minutes of sunlight a day. Vitamin D is important for myelinization, and I think it would be particularly so if the nerves are allowed to skip several developmental stages and if one has such asynchronous development happening.

[Mamagistra]

:iagree:

[Kelli in TN]

Pam knows what she is talking about.:iagree:

[Reya]

Wow.

 

Make sure she gets 15 minutes of sunlight a day. Vitamin D is important for myelinization, and I think it would be particularly so if the nerves are allowed to skip several developmental stages and if one has such asynchronous development happening.

 

Never thought of that! We get lots of sunlight in the breakfast area of the kitchen, but I'll be extra careful now!

 

Um. Am I allowed to say that a 4-mo who can chose the right card is a little...er...creepy?

 

Not that I'm not delighted, amazed, etc., etc., by her. But it's still just a wee bit disturbing! It's not like she's 100%, but last time, she picked the right one 5 out of 6 times, and she only ate them when she was right....

 

And I'm going to be the poster child for Evil Mother Who PUSHES Her Baby, I'm sure. :-P

 

If I'm spending the time on tiring her out mentally, though, I figured it could be something constructive, eh?

[Doran]

....she only ate them when she was right....

 

 

Girl, you are gonna have some mondo bizarro diapers in the morning! :lol:

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

Never thought of that! We get lots of sunlight in the breakfast area of the kitchen, but I'll be extra careful now!

 

Um. Am I allowed to say that a 4-mo who can chose the right card is a little...er...creepy?

 

Not that I'm not delighted, amazed, etc., etc., by her. But it's still just a wee bit disturbing! It's not like she's 100%, but last time, she picked the right one 5 out of 6 times, and she only ate them when she was right....

 

And I'm going to be the poster child for Evil Mother Who PUSHES Her Baby, I'm sure. :-P

 

If I'm spending the time on tiring her out mentally, though, I figured it could be something constructive, eh?

 

I don't think so. At all. I don't think badly of you for trying it because I'm certain you are doing what you feel is best for your child, but I think you should seriously rethink this route.

 

Neural development is something that should not be taken out of order, IMO. If a child is walking before crawling and reading "bear" before having been taken to the zoo and read Minarek's Little Bear and Milne's Pooh, the order is wrong. Sometimes the piper is to be paid later for those sequences being skipped, I believe. I do think the research that we know about backs me up.

 

And at this point in my life, having had a son who hummed Blue Danube Waltz on pitch and perfectly timed when he was 9 months old and who sang whole cantatas flawlessly when he was 2, I would hold back as hard as I could. I would simply find another way.

 

And if my husband couldn't handle me paying $7 an hour for a mother's helper when I earned $100 an hour, I'd quickly disabuse him of the notion that he had more than half of a say in the matter. But that's just me, and it might not work that way at your house.

 

So bottom line for me (though I know you didn't ask my opinion, lol): Just because she can do it (with obvious effort) doesn't mean she should, or that you should let her. Even if she seems to like it.

Edited March 11, 2009 by Pam "SFSOM" in TN

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

Girl, you are gonna have some mondo bizarro diapers in the morning! :lol:

 

Alphabet Poop?

[Reya]

Girl, you are gonna have some mondo bizarro diapers in the morning! :lol:

 

I fish out any bits she actually manages to get off before she swallows them!!!

[Reya]

I don't think so. At all. I don't think badly of you for trying it because I'm certain you are doing what you feel is best for your child, but I think you should seriously rethink this route.

 

Neural development is something that should not be taken out of order, IMO. If a child is walking before crawling and reading "bear" before having been taken to the zoo and read Minarek's Little Bear and Milne's Pooh, the order is wrong. Sometimes the piper is to be paid later for those sequences being skipped, I believe. I do think the research that we know about backs me up.

 

And at this point in my life, having had a son who hummed Blue Danube Waltz on pitch and perfectly timed when he was 9 months old and who sang whole cantatas flawlessly when he was 2, I would hold back as hard as I could. I would simply find another way.

 

And if my husband couldn't handle me paying $7 an hour for a mother's helper when I earned $100 an hour, I'd quickly disabuse him of the notion that he had more than half of a say in the matter. But that's just me, and it might not work that way at your house.

 

So bottom line for me (though I know you didn't ask my opinion, lol): Just because she can do it (with obvious effort) doesn't mean she should, or that you should let her. Even if she seems to like it.

 

I've actually read quite a bit about neural development--pathway building, pruning, etc., specifically in the context of highly gifted kids. (I was curious about it before and now have a kind of added urgency!)

 

The weird thing is that apparently, the most gifted kids have the LATEST neural maturity. Just the opposite of what you'd thing, huh? (Opposite of what I'D think!) But their cortex continues to thicken when other kids' are already thinning--at yet they out-perform the "average" on tasks while being pysiologically more immature.

 

I think it's a mistake, then, to assume that certain tasks are possible/correct because of neural pruning, etc. There are certainly a lot of coincidences of that nature, but coincidence and causation are separate, so to make the double leap from coincidence (I do mean co-incidence there--co-happening) to causation and description to prescription isn't warranted.

 

(An interesting article:

http://eideneurolearningblog.blogspot.com/2006/03/biology-of-late-bloomers-gifted-but.html )

 

There have been any number of kids who have done things extremely precociously, and there haven't been any documented ill effects to the earliness itself, if that makes sense. If you get all caught up on the Dolman sight words/flash cards method, you can induce dyslexia, but that's because the method causes dyslexia in a kid of any age, not because of the ages of the kids being "flashed." (I think Dolman's worthless for a dozen reasons but harmful only for this one!)

 

And, conversely, you can allow some errors to creep in if you are to slow in responding to a developing ability.

 

In some ways, I regret--REALLY regret--not working with my DS on letter sounds and order when he was younger. He self-taught the alphabet and the letter sounds at 2. I never taught them. It's not that I was against it or anything--I just didn't see much of a point. And, unfortunately, he started reading whole words, on his own, right around that same time--and he seemed hardwired against phonics. So when I went to really teach him how to read fluently--not just words--he had a HUGE struggle against the sight method he's taught himself. He was heavily inclined toward dyslexic processing, and I've wondered for the past two years if I could have prevented that by providing some level of guidence, however slight, when he was first learning a few words and the letter sounds. He was, however, a VERY different kid from my DD and would have been very, very unlikely to cooperate at 2 and even less likely to enjoy it. But I have this feeling that I missed the boat with him, and all the anti-dyslexia work I've done with him would have been totally unnecessary if he hadn't "figured it out" wrong to start with.

 

I think every kid has his or her own learning pace, and I ALSO think that it not only varies from kid to kid but from topic to topic. For example, I was ready to do complex operations on fractions at four--and did. My DS has only a decent grasp of fractions at 6. Most kids begin really understanding fractions around 10-12. My mother, great aunt, and grandmother were all reading at 2. I was reading well at 3, being rather indifferent to it. :-) Some kids aren't ready until 7 or even 9, and are still perfectly normal.

 

But what if you take a kid who will be developmentally ready to read at 9 and try to teach him at, say, 3? Mostly, you'll hit a wall with blending. You can teach any kid, just about, the sounds of the letters, but this one will be stuck at C-A-T and cant get to "cat" OR will have to go "C-A-T, cat" every time for months and/or years. There isn't a danger with "letting a kid do something too young" because, well, if the kid's too young, the kid can't do it. Where you run into problems is when you freak out because your kid isn't blending properly when you believe he should and so you teach sight words, which don't require the same level of maturity. The same is true of numeracy--if you teach algorithms because the child can't grasp concepts, you're creating a problem, but a child learning concepts at whatever age isn't ever a problem.

 

I REALLY try not to be, well, conventional-for-conventional sake--"we do X when Y because that's how it's done." I won't say that I haven't sat back and gone, "What the heck am I DOING and is there something wrong with it?" just because it's so far outside the norm. (I had another moment about that today, when my DS declared he liked his copywork better than the video games he played today. Er. That's, well, WEIRD. And when things are weird, you wonder if they might not be WRONG, too.) But I don't know of a single study, anywhere, at any time, that's shown a benefit to keeping kids from doing things, with the single exception of myopia being increased by high levels of close work at an early age.

 

As for DD, she is so HAPPY about the cards--excited and engrossed rather than, well, frenetic and disorganized. It's like she's been grasping desperate for sometihng, and this is some sort of huge RELIEF. She does it INTENSELY for a little while, then the just sits back...and is quiet...and is SNUGGLY (My baby! Snuggly and awake!) and is just, well, your classic "quiet-alert," and without a three-ring circus happening around her. She's CONTENT. The change is incredible, and it seems as much a relief to her as to me! I can't imagine anything that affects such a beneficial change to be damaging. (Okay--anything but a drug. ;-) )

Edited March 11, 2009 by Reya

[Reya]

Oh, and I want to add, it is SO reassuring to talk to/read about people who've been there before. :-P I don't know what I'd have done if this were my first baby, either, and I hadn't dealt with a few of these issues--WAY less intense--before.

 

Um. Besides getting my tubes ties.

 

I am obsessively rereading certain anecdotes about certain kids and reciting: People have done this before. They;ve survived. Their kids have flourished, in fact. And no, they didn't suddenly grow another head!

 

Gotta go. I've let DS stay up WAY too late, and I promised him Latin before bed. *shakes head*

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

 

As for DD, she is so HAPPY about the cards--excited and engrossed rather than, well, frenetic and disorganized. It's like she's been grasping desperate for sometihng, and this is some sort of huge RELIEF. She does it INTENSELY for a little while, then the just sits back...and is quiet...and is SNUGGLY (My baby! Snuggly and awake!) and is just, well, your classic "quiet-alert," and without a three-ring circus happening around her. She's CONTENT. The change is incredible, and it seems as much a relief to her as to me! I can't imagine anything that affects such a beneficial change to be damaging. (Okay--anything but a drug. ;-) )

 

Eh, you know, when highly precocious children are described, parents of neurotypical children are always all, "What are you DOING!?" And it's impossible to understand from where I sit that this is a good thing. From where you sit, the view is different.

 

When Ben was little, I got a whole lot of "Why are you pushing this child?" when my reality was that I was simply holding on for dear life and he was dragging me along. My hand was on his back, but it wasn't what it looked like to the outside world.

 

HOWEVER. Having done this and seen more and from where I sit right now, I wouldn't go down the same path for love nor money. I would have dug a lot more mud pies and explored more ecosystems and climbed more trees and been all Charlotte Mason-y with the boy, more gross and fine motor simplicity, more watchfulness to his asynchronicity (which was nowhere close to what you describe) and more actively deepening his experiences rather than allowing his academics to develop so early.

 

It's perhaps more "intuitive" and "regrets" with me, though, coupled with what we know of how myelinization proceeds. And I certainly would have completely scoffed at the notion at the time, simply because, like I said, I was just trying to keep up with the boy. Also, how I've seen brilliant but deliberately slowed down children have arrived at adulthood vs. how mine and others who were similarly accelerated have turned/ are turning out.

 

Anyway, I guarantee you'll get more of a receptive understanding for your position on the Accelerated Learner board, just in case this one gets too skeptical for you.

 

Good luck with your little armful. And don't forget to pack in your omega 3 supplements if you're still nursing. She's gonna need them.

[sarahli]

Is typing on a laptop with her on a blanket outside an option?

My son is and was extremely intense, and being outside is the only thing that has worked for him. Most of my memories are of him screaming when we were inside. He's physically intense though and not as much mentally. He can run for miles! It's horribly hard now that we have a 600sq ft. apartment with no yard.

Obviously our situations are different, but I'm not a stranger to the frustration...

 

...On letter recognition- my son is just starting to do this. Whenever we walk by the word "stop" on the street, he points out the "o", and then the "s"- but he says "THAT'S A TWO!" and if I try to correct him, he says, "NO! IT'S A TWO!" :001_huh: Ok, I won't argue with you son.

[Reya]

Is typing on a laptop with her on a blanket outside an option?

My son is and was extremely intense, and being outside is the only thing that has worked for him. Most of my memories are of him screaming when we were inside. He's physically intense though and not as much mentally. He can run for miles! It's horribly hard now that we have a 600sq ft. apartment with no yard.

Obviously our situations are different, but I'm not a stranger to the frustration...

 

...On letter recognition- my son is just starting to do this. Whenever we walk by the word "stop" on the street, he points out the "o", and then the "s"- but he says "THAT'S A TWO!" and if I try to correct him, he says, "NO! IT'S A TWO!" :001_huh: Ok, I won't argue with you son.

 

It's pretty chilly here, still. We've had a few GLORIOUS days recently, and DD spent a good half an hour blowing spit bubbles on the blanket last Sat. It was great!

 

Yeah, you can NEVER win those arguments. :-) I remember once I did win some stupid argument with my DS that was almost that bad, and then I stopped myself and went, "When you're getting satisfaction with winning an argument with your kid, you need to get out more, lady!!!"

[Reya]

HOWEVER. Having done this and seen more and from where I sit right now, I wouldn't go down the same path for love nor money. I would have dug a lot more mud pies and explored more ecosystems and climbed more trees and been all Charlotte Mason-y with the boy, more gross and fine motor simplicity, more watchfulness to his asynchronicity (which was nowhere close to what you describe) and more actively deepening his experiences rather than allowing his academics to develop so early.

....

 

Good luck with your little armful. And don't forget to pack in your omega 3 supplements if you're still nursing. She's gonna need them.

 

I guess I just don't differentiate between mud pies and magpies, if that makes sense! Reading is important to me for exactly the exploratory reasons you state. As far as my older one goes, well, he was in serious hot water today, but most days, he spends a good two to four hours a day (now that it's not bitterly cold!) outside playing and at least another two hours indoors in imaginative play (NOT screen time), and I feel that his outside play and his structured learning reinforce one another. His learning gives his play CONTENT, richness, and depth--for example, he can play egyptologist or ornithologist or archeologist, or he can pretend to be sailing with Columbus or founding Rome or raised by wolves. *g*

 

A kid's play is a kid's work, but "book larnin'" gives that play its fodder, if that makes sense. The kind of vivid inner play world I had as a child was fed by streams of information I got from reading. I think that's the natural way for a child--any child!

 

I've had a recent acceleration discussion online, and I think that problems with fear of acceleration come in with the*definition* of acceleration. But acceleration can mean so many different things!

 

For example, I'd never do the 4-year history cycle faster. In fact, we're probably doing it slower than 4 years! Instead, I do it up to a higher level (though I DON'T stay at a "stretch" level all the time! ALL kids need some things to be easy some of the time!).

 

I do math deeply but also faster than normal, both. DS does RS as his main curriculum and mostly the word problems and challenge portions of Singapore's Intensive Practice and the challenging sections of the CWP. I also have some enrichment books of challenge math that I have him do, too. He's doing algebra without even realizing it!

 

We're "accelerating" handwriting ONLY because it's soooo much easier for DS to write neatly on smaller paper, so we're doing the first half of Getty-Dubay C and will be repeating that for a while.

 

We're sort of jumping around in science, doing all sorts of units and not worrying about grade level or speed or anything like that.

 

We completely skipped GWG 1 because it was way too slow and tedious. It went from a foot-dragging, dramatic-groaning part of the day to one of DS' favorite activities. We do it at 2 lessons per week.

 

We're picking our way through the 1000 Good Books list, too. We stop for a while on a series whenever DS gets really interested--for instance, we're on book #3 of the Little House series and will soon move to #4. DS SWEARS he'll still be interested when Laura gets married, but we'll see! (I certainly doubt it.)

 

We're doing spelling two days a week, a unit of SWO at a time, so I guess that's the most classic acceleration--the same stuff but faster. He likes the activities and can spell the words pretty easily. I don't know what he's getting out of it other than the ability to follow directions, though.

 

We're just, just introducing composition with one short written assignment per week, edited and rewritten for correct usage. That's about 40 min total per week.

 

Copywork is just plain copywork. :-) Nothing "accelerated" about that.

 

In fact, I only schedule 4 days' worth of materials for everything but math and reading. Friday is a half-day if DS finishes the week's work on time.

 

We're doing art just one day per week because I stink, and we'll re-add violin and Spanish at some point. Probably next year, because hopefully be then we won't be having our once-a-week ADD fits that stretch things out so much. *makes face*

 

I was moving books the other day and found Cambridge Latin 1 and thought about how much he'd love it, so I let him look at it, and he went over the moon. So that's the new bedtime treat. He'll probably do one "stage" a week at a very relaxed pace (with lots of giggling and standing on one's head...). If he wants to quit, I really don't care. I think that this is supposed to be a middle school text, so that would be an effective 5 or 6-year acceleration...

 

(If only there were Spanish programs as fun!!!!)

 

So even with just one kid with very specific needs, "acceleration" looks like a dozen different things!

 

I take three Omega-3 supplements a day of two different kinds. Neurons aren't like electrical wires, though--they don't get damaged by cross-firing if they aren't insulated right yet! I'm curious, though, about what you read that has you so cautious now.

 

Overall, I don't think I'll freak out TOO many people on a classical homeschooling board. :-) Those who think that there is something inherently unnatural in children learning anything that could carry an academic label prolly don't hang out here, so the only hang up, then, is the age!

Edited March 11, 2009 by Reya

[ElizabethB]

MY BABY IS ASLEEP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Call choirs of angels!

 

This may just be chance, but the first thing I tried, because of her absolute fascination with print, was alphabet cards. I used some old business cards and wrote the letters of the alphabet on their backs, upper and lowercase separate, vowels in a different color. Then I pulled out about 8 or 10 letters I thought were both common and distinctive in written form and sound, and I "flashed" through them, making their sounds. Then I took out two and showed them one at a time and made the sounds of each. And then I put one on each hand and made the sound of the one I wanted her to pick. She got the idea right away--and apparently, this is HARD WORK for a baby! Completely exhausting but exciting at the same time! After 15 minutes last night, she was a limp blob of panting bonelessness. It was AWESOME. She slept 12 hours straight, only waking to feed!

 

It worked today, too! I've gotten two naps out of her, and she's now down for either her third nap or for the night--I'm not sure which. You should SEE the mental effort she puts forth. (When she chooses the right one, she eats it, so I'm going to need new ones, soon. When she chooses the wrong one--not that often anymore--she puts it back.)

 

WOO-HOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Yay!

 

That sounds like something a 6 year old could do, too!

[Reya]

Yay!

 

That sounds like something a 6 year old could do, too!

 

 

Not sure I'd trust him to pull out the bits of card before she swallows it, though! (Can't laminate--it'd poke her in the mouth.)

 

Guess what? GUESS WHAT???? She's STILL ASLEEP! 5 hours now.

 

Wow!

 

EDIT: DH just said, "She's still alive now, right?

Edited March 11, 2009 by Reya

[Colleen in NS]

I've read this whole thread and all I can see is confusion on times (posting continually late into the night and early in the morning even though you've said many times how tired you are, and saying you're going to bed at around 6:38 a.m. - you mentioned East coast - while seemingly your baby is up from 6 a.m. til late at night). Even when you said your baby was sleeping, you were posting instead of catching up on your apparent sleep needs. None of this makes sense to me.

 

What I do see is one exhausted mother and one exhausted, over-stimulated 4 month old baby. I think your baby needs routine and more sleep, not more or better entertainment.

[WTMindy]

What I do see is one exhausted mother and one exhausted, over-stimulated 4 month old baby. I think your baby needs routine and more sleep, not more or better entertainment.

 

:iagree:

[Elaine]

I've read this whole thread and all I can see is confusion on times (posting continually late into the night and early in the morning even though you've said many times how tired you are, and saying you're going to bed at around 6:38 a.m. - you mentioned East coast - while seemingly your baby is up from 6 a.m. til late at night). Even when you said your baby was sleeping, you were posting instead of catching up on your apparent sleep needs. None of this makes sense to me.

 

What I do see is one exhausted mother and one exhausted, over-stimulated 4 month old baby. I think your baby needs routine and more sleep, not more or better entertainment.

 

:iagree::iagree:

[Kelli in TN]

I've read this whole thread and all I can see is confusion on times (posting continually late into the night and early in the morning even though you've said many times how tired you are, and saying you're going to bed at around 6:38 a.m. - you mentioned East coast - while seemingly your baby is up from 6 a.m. til late at night). Even when you said your baby was sleeping, you were posting instead of catching up on your apparent sleep needs. None of this makes sense to me.

 

What I do see is one exhausted mother and one exhausted, over-stimulated 4 month old baby. I think your baby needs routine and more sleep, not more or better entertainment.

 

I think Colleen has nailed it here. Get some routine. Get some rest. Help that baby learn to rest.

[Elaine]

She's hit all the 7mo milestones, but she's actually just 4 mo. She loves music, but it doesn't get her off me. I wouldn't mind the lap if she'd just CHILL some of the time instead of needing direct interaction ever minute or so---I have NO concentration for that!

 

She loves TV--she sees it at the neighbor's house,--but that's a HUGE no-no here before age 3. We have a high rate of several neurological conditions that are positively associated with TV (austism, ADD, etc., etc). So we're extra-careful about it.

 

She can crawl backwards slowly--I'm praying that once she goes FORWARD, it'll get better. She can stand, too, and can even cruise a little. I wantthis baby mobile--it's what she so desperately craves!

 

If I can JUST get another contract under my belt, I can hire some help a bit of the time.....

 

She can stand? And cruise? :confused: Are you sure Mr.Incredible isn't her father? I have never heard of a 4 month old cruising.

[JenniferB]

I don't have time to read all the replies, so I don't know if this was said yet or not, but to get a baby mobile, you place the baby on her tummy as much as possible, and you put your hands on the bottoms of her feet, and you get her muscles to learn to "push off". You can put your hands on the bottoms of her feet when she's on her back too to practice the "push off" motion and strengthen the leg muscles. She needs lots of tummy time, though to get fully mobile, and please discourage crawling backwards. You should encourage crawling forwards by putting toys just out of reach in the forward direction, also you can get down on your tummy in front of her, and clap and cheer her on to come forward. Also, your other child can cheer her on that same way too.

[swellmomma]

She can stand? And cruise? :confused: Are you sure Mr.Incredible isn't her father? I have never heard of a 4 month old cruising.

 

I have not heard of 4 month olds doing this, but we have pictures of my first xmas, I was 6 months old and standing in front of the tree, I was also walking at that time. However, I was not reading flashcards etc at that age. Heck even if my child showed signs of giftedness, my first instinct would not be to make flashcards, but to sing more songs and do more fingerplays, and read more books and try different toys to practice other skills like fill and pour, and would do water play, and safe sensory play once baby was on solids(like pudding fingerpainting.

 

From what I have read this baby needs more sleep, and more direct momma time. Just holding your baby isn't enough, you can hold your baby and still not be there with them, I think she is responding to the direct interaction with momma more than the flashcards themselves, but since I wasn't there I of course couldn't say for sure.

 

As for a mother's helper charging $7/hour. I think you would find if you hire a young teen(12 or 13 yr old) or ask around amoung homeschooling circles you can find someone for $4-5 an hour or someone who is willing to trade off free sitting with you. I bartar for a lot around here, including trading babysitting with others so I can get a free sitter and then watch their child for free while they do what they need to(I typically do this with my sister, but could with anyone who wanted to). If you are finding that you just can't stand to spend more time in direct interaction with your baby anymore because you can't get work done you really can not afford to NOT hire someone to come in and give her that attention she is craving.

 

Getting on a sleep schedule is very important. Trust me on that one, dd never slept much, rarely napped, 8 hours at night from infancy on, as she got older that lack of sleep became very difficult, she appeared to not need it but in reality she was becoming more and more difficult and demanding. What seemed like frustration over simple things was really due to lack of sleep. Once I figured that out(not until she was 6 and we were finding out about her adhd) and got her on a better routine and help with her sleep things have gonemuch better. If her sleep schedule is disrupted we are in for difficult days, she still seems alert and happy as long as people are directly interacting with her but life in general on those days is frustrating for her.

[Reya]

She can stand? And cruise? :confused: Are you sure Mr.Incredible isn't her father? I have never heard of a 4 month old cruising.

 

I have a heritable muscle condition. :-) Low flexibility, lots of strength. That and her determination make her Super Baby. She'll make a really TERRIBLE ballerina but a darned good weightlifter....

 

I've got a video of her standing against the fireplace when she was 3 mo old, but she couldn't cruise at all then. (She lunged at my camera and slid down!) Now, like I said, she can really only manage a step or two and then falls over.

[5kidsforME]

I have read this whole stinkin thread. Yes stinkin, it stinks. Hard to believe or rather not believable. ;)

 

That being said if any of what you are saying is true, you have gotten a LOT of good advice here. Yet you have systematically shot everything down.

 

Are you sure you truly wanted advice or.....pats on the back....or attention...or are we all missing the big picture? :confused:

[Reya]

I have read this whole stinkin thread. Yes stinkin, it stinks. Hard to believe or rather not believable. ;)

 

That being said if any of what you are saying is true, you have gotten a LOT of good advice here. Yet you have systematically shot everything down.

 

Are you sure you truly wanted advice or.....pats on the back....or attention...or are we all missing the big picture? :confused:

 

No, I haven't. I'd already TRIED most things. That's why I posted. If I hadn't tried every danged thing I could think of, I wouldn't have asked for suggestions.

 

Now, I've tried several things others have suggested--actually, I tried one, then I tried one that someone on here made me think of, and that worked so well I haven't needed the others yet. I have at least two more as backups. I'll use them as I need them.

 

I've got pictures and videos, despite the fact that babies are hardly command performers. But I don't have to prove myself to you. If someone who's been--well, not so NASTY would like to see them, I'll share. We put 'em on facebook for family to see, but that's semi-private since it has our real names. I ask that no one share the info publicly, and it's not like we've been trying to "prove" that she can do X or Y, so we just have random pics and videos of her, well, being a baby, her way. We've made an effort to get the cutest things recorded, of course, but I don't have anything of her cruising, for instance. It just isn't a priority.

 

We're not trying to one-up anyone else or break a world record or anything--never mind that I'm sure that we're really far from that, anyway. We just take pictures of our kid like anyone does. I recorded how old she was in some of the videos for my own reference--so I'D believe it when she's two or three! Now, if I intended to put her in school, I would start documenting out of sheer self-defense when I asked for later accomodations. But we're not, so that's a non-issue.

[Reya]

I've read this whole thread and all I can see is confusion on times (posting continually late into the night and early in the morning even though you've said many times how tired you are, and saying you're going to bed at around 6:38 a.m. - you mentioned East coast - while seemingly your baby is up from 6 a.m. til late at night). Even when you said your baby was sleeping, you were posting instead of catching up on your apparent sleep needs. None of this makes sense to me.

 

What I do see is one exhausted mother and one exhausted, over-stimulated 4 month old baby. I think your baby needs routine and more sleep, not more or better entertainment.

 

Oh, we HAD a schedule. It just stank.

DH came home at about 8pm. Has his uninterrupted time until 8:45-sih. This is what everything else revolves around.

 

DS comes stops playing with neighbor’s kid at 8:45-ish, already bathed.

“Daddy time” is 9-10:30 PM. Until recently, DD couldn’t be a part of this, but this has been restructured so she can. I unwind here.

DS in bed at 10:30—except when I stupidly make a promise I don’t hedge with the usually “ifs” and things go badly. 11:30 is last-minute lights out, but he almost never makes that.

10:30-2 AM—DH usually demands a few hours, and I have cleaning, etc, to do, as well as home repairs

11 AM to Midnight—DD finally goes down

2AM—DH in bed. This WILL go earlier or I will kill him.

2AM-4AM—I write. (I've been up once this week until 7AM. The reason was, erm, personal. But it has to do with DH's bedtime and my determination to move it up earlier.)

 

9 AM—DD up and ready to PLAY!!!!!

9:30 AM—She’s fed, talked to, played with, and goes in her crib for her one hour of self-entertaining while I steal another hours of sleep.

10:30 AM—I wake up again, get DD, and start school for DS, who wakes up naturally at 10:20 every morning and eats breakfast with his reading. DD usually has my attention here, though I steal 15 min to EAT..

11:30 to noonish—DS is finished with first part of school and goes out for play time/lunch/etc with friend

Noon-1:30—DD plays with neighbor’s toddler, who is in a half-day special ed program, while I supervise (no, I can’t leave her then—I leave, she screams, and besides, the neighbor has a nanny and I’d have to pay her $15/hr to add my kiddo)

1:30—DD AND toddler take a nap—and angels sing

1:30-3—I clean house/write/make dinner ahead/etc/eat lunch!

3 PM—second part of school begins, and DD wakes up—here, DS has my concentration

4 to 5—second part of school ends, DS has second lunch and plays outside until sunset with friend, then they bounce between the two houses. DS usually has first dinner at the neighbor’s—my DS eats like a HORSE and is as skinny as a rail.

Around 6 or 7—I’m exhausted and take DD over to play with neighbor’s toddler, who’s just gotten up from a nap. I stare blankly at her playing on the floor, if she deigns to do so, while enjoying adult conversation, then get a second wind. This lasts about an hour. I go back to my house and play with DD intensely one-on-one until second dinner (for DS). If I’m lucky, she gives me a 15-minute nap!

Wash, rinse, repeat. For more than 2 months now. (Swimming days and AWANAs are variations on the theme.)

On Sat, I kick DH out of bed at 10:30 and go back to sleep until noon. I also usually go to bed earlier on Sat night.

 

My NEW routine will involve me in bed at 2 AM and awake at 9:30 AM without any baby play time in between. TONS more sleep! With DD going to bed at 10 PM and waking at 10:30 AM, I’ve got lots more time in my day, never mind TWO naps! (Actually, it looks like today will just be one, but it was LONG.)

I’m within a couple of lbs of my pre-pregnancy weight. I wonder why… (hahhaha…)

 

(In case you're wondering, DD is in my arms now, watching the neighbor's kid and playing with her toes and hooting like an owl. EEEEEW!!! I think she just ate some toe lint!)

 

But, of course, you know what all babies are like, right? Yup, here I am--lying through my teeth about my kiddo. Cuz this is what I do with my spare time.

 

She only pulls a "I shall only sleep four hours tonight" once every couple of weeks.

Edited March 11, 2009 by Reya

[Reya]

Oh, and now I'm waiting for the "So you're TOO scheduled! THAT'S your problem!" posts. :-)

 

I'd like to note that I'd never post a question like this if I had to do it under my real name. Too many people who think kids who are different should be a freak show. I really sympathize with those who want to make people understand their kids, but I'm very chary of that kind of exposure, too. There's too much sideshow and there's not enough, I dunno, just plain acceptance.

[lollie010]

What an intense thread. I guess I read it so intently because I have my own new little bundle (just turned three months). He's not doing anything quite so exciting yet, but I am exhausted nontheless.

 

I have a friend who could not get here little ones to relax at nap or bedtime and had failed at the massage thing. But, she started using "essential oils" (not sure which ones--but you could ask at a local shop) in her massage routine and she swears her children relaxed for the first time since birth. It might be worth a shot.

 

Laurel T.

Edited March 12, 2009 by Laurel T.

[Jennifer in NH]

Please don't take this the wrong way...I have read this entire thread. I am glad that you gleened a tidbit or two or three out of it. Hopefully, that will help.

My advice is more for you, and not your baby. If you are trying to find more time to work from home, have you considered cutting back your time here? This thread alone has been time consuming! Just a thought.

[Reya]

I don't have time to read all the replies, so I don't know if this was said yet or not, but to get a baby mobile, you place the baby on her tummy as much as possible, and you put your hands on the bottoms of her feet, and you get her muscles to learn to "push off". You can put your hands on the bottoms of her feet when she's on her back too to practice the "push off" motion and strengthen the leg muscles. She needs lots of tummy time, though to get fully mobile, and please discourage crawling backwards. You should encourage crawling forwards by putting toys just out of reach in the forward direction, also you can get down on your tummy in front of her, and clap and cheer her on to come forward. Also, your other child can cheer her on that same way too.

 

She's getting her legs under her belly now but still not getting the "come forward" bit very well. Actually, she CAN, but she still does a nose plant. :-P If she goes backwards, no nose plant, hence its attraction to her. I kinda have hesitated over helping her ("pushy mommy" syndrome), but I'll see if DS can do it with her! They'd both have fun, I think.

 

Thanks!

[Reya]

What an intense thread. I guess I read it so intently because I have my own new little bundle (just turned three months). He's not doing anything quite so exciting yet, but I am exhausted nontheless.

 

I have a friend who could not get here little ones to relax at nap or bedtime and had failed at the massage thing. But, she started using "essential oils" (not sure which ones--but you could ask at a local shop) in her massage routine and she swears her children relaxed for the first time since birth. It might be worth a shot.

 

Laurel T.

 

It scares me a little, 'cuz we have some really severe skin allergies. I bet I can try just a tiny bit.....

[Reya]

Please don't take this the wrong way...I have read this entire thread. I am glad that you gleened a tidbit or two or three out of it. Hopefully, that will help.

My advice is more for you, and not your baby. If you are trying to find more time to work from home, have you considered cutting back your time here? This thread alone has been time consuming! Just a thought.

 

If I could spend the time I'm here working, I would. :-) I'm usually either multitasking (doing baby/DS' math/here, or eating/here, or looking for youtube videos of an atlatl/here or nursing/here. Sometimes, I'm taking a break after an intense hour of work/here.

 

You may or may not notice, but I'll be here intensely for a week or so and then disappear for weeks or months. It all depends on what else is up.

[Storm Bay]

I have one more suggestion that helped my daughter when her baby did a lot of crying before going to sleep.

This lullaby tape actually did calm her baby down. She would get quiet when it was on.

 

It has the sound of a heart beat along with the lullabies.

It sounds like your baby may not be getting enough sleep so this may be helpful.

Here's a link to it.

 

http://www.babygotosleep.com/

 

 

Some babies just get angrier and angrier no matter what you do. I had one like that. And some babies just don't need nearly as much sleep as others do--just like adults ;). My eldest sleeps almost as much at 13 (10 hours) as she did when she was 4 months (she napped a whole 30 minutes, which was twice as long as Reya's baby.) However, she slept quite a bit less than that in between 3 and 11 or so. Her brain is very active, as was her body when she was tiny (didn't stop moving until she fell asleep).

 

Reya, my heart goes out to you. Mine were all very active, but it was my sister who had an active one who needed that constant interaction. I will say that he's long past that now (he's 14). She had to go to work part time outside of the house, so put him in childcare with a mother who cared for children at her home. Some hg & pg kids (and others, too) need a lot of interaction all the time. I know it's way too expensive in the east, but I can only sugget that you either pay someone to help or find a way to work at night if that's at all feasible. Four months is young enough that she's asking for what she needs.

[Colleen in NS]

I really sympathize with those who want to make people understand their kids, but I'm very chary of that kind of exposure, too. There's too much sideshow and there's not enough, I dunno, just plain acceptance.

 

The parents on these boards have a WIDE variety of children - some geniuses, some struggling with all sorts of physical and mental problems. To me, people here seem pretty accepting of that variety, and I don't think any responders here are making a sideshow of your dd.

 

But when you ask for advice and then repeatedly and lengthily say why it won't work, it's discouraging to those responding to your plea for advice, and I think it's a waste of board space. This is not the first time I've seen you do this.

Edited March 13, 2009 by Colleen in NS

[runninmommy]

Here is your "overscheduled" post you knew you would get--

 

All I can think of while reading this crazy schedule is what is the point? Why run yourself ragged like this? Why not cut back? How can you possibly enjoy your family living like this? Can writing not wait a few years? It hardly seems worth it to me.

:001_huh:

 

 

Oh, we HAD a schedule. It just stank.

DH came home at about 8pm. Has his uninterrupted time until 8:45-sih. This is what everything else revolves around.

 

DS comes stops playing with neighbor’s kid at 8:45-ish, already bathed.

“Daddy time†is 9-10:30 PM. Until recently, DD couldn’t be a part of this, but this has been restructured so she can. I unwind here.

DS in bed at 10:30—except when I stupidly make a promise I don’t hedge with the usually “ifs†and things go badly. 11:30 is last-minute lights out, but he almost never makes that.

10:30-2 AM—DH usually demands a few hours, and I have cleaning, etc, to do, as well as home repairs

11 AM to Midnight—DD finally goes down

2AM—DH in bed. This WILL go earlier or I will kill him.

2AM-4AM—I write. (I've been up once this week until 7AM. The reason was, erm, personal. But it has to do with DH's bedtime and my determination to move it up earlier.)

 

9 AM—DD up and ready to PLAY!!!!!

9:30 AM—She’s fed, talked to, played with, and goes in her crib for her one hour of self-entertaining while I steal another hours of sleep.

10:30 AM—I wake up again, get DD, and start school for DS, who wakes up naturally at 10:20 every morning and eats breakfast with his reading. DD usually has my attention here, though I steal 15 min to EAT..

11:30 to noonish—DS is finished with first part of school and goes out for play time/lunch/etc with friend

Noon-1:30—DD plays with neighbor’s toddler, who is in a half-day special ed program, while I supervise (no, I can’t leave her then—I leave, she screams, and besides, the neighbor has a nanny and I’d have to pay her $15/hr to add my kiddo)

1:30—DD AND toddler take a nap—and angels sing

1:30-3—I clean house/write/make dinner ahead/etc/eat lunch!

3 PM—second part of school begins, and DD wakes up—here, DS has my concentration

4 to 5—second part of school ends, DS has second lunch and plays outside until sunset with friend, then they bounce between the two houses. DS usually has first dinner at the neighbor’s—my DS eats like a HORSE and is as skinny as a rail.

Around 6 or 7—I’m exhausted and take DD over to play with neighbor’s toddler, who’s just gotten up from a nap. I stare blankly at her playing on the floor, if she deigns to do so, while enjoying adult conversation, then get a second wind. This lasts about an hour. I go back to my house and play with DD intensely one-on-one until second dinner (for DS). If I’m lucky, she gives me a 15-minute nap!

Wash, rinse, repeat. For more than 2 months now. (Swimming days and AWANAs are variations on the theme.)

On Sat, I kick DH out of bed at 10:30 and go back to sleep until noon. I also usually go to bed earlier on Sat night.

 

My NEW routine will involve me in bed at 2 AM and awake at 9:30 AM without any baby play time in between. TONS more sleep! With DD going to bed at 10 PM and waking at 10:30 AM, I’ve got lots more time in my day, never mind TWO naps! (Actually, it looks like today will just be one, but it was LONG.)

I’m within a couple of lbs of my pre-pregnancy weight. I wonder why… (hahhaha…)

 

(In case you're wondering, DD is in my arms now, watching the neighbor's kid and playing with her toes and hooting like an owl. EEEEEW!!! I think she just ate some toe lint!)

 

But, of course, you know what all babies are like, right? Yup, here I am--lying through my teeth about my kiddo. Cuz this is what I do with my spare time.

 

She only pulls a "I shall only sleep four hours tonight" once every couple of weeks.

[Reya]

ARGH! Well, the alphabet cards are still fun, but they aren't tiring. She can pick the right one (with her mouth?!?!?!) when given a choice of two almost instantly. I've got to figure out how to make it harder but still within her abilities....

 

BUT another idea worked! Back on the bath thread, someone suggested letting her play in the tub with the drain open and a trickle of water going. I wasn't sure how much she'd enjoy that since she's so oral, but I drained the tub after our bath tonight, dried her head and back, and stuck her on her belly. (I'm afraid of putting her sitting up on sometihng so slippery.)

 

After sucking on the tub bottom for a while (EEEEEEEEEEEWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!--she loves bath water, but that's 10 times worse!), she pushed herself to the drain and tried to alternately watch the water dripping (and splashing her face) and chasing the water down the drain. She was ALMOST tired enough to go to bed at that point, so if it was going to tick her off, it would have. Instead, she seemed pretty darned happy!

 

To work while she's doing this would involve me getting in a dry tub in shorts with the laptop and sticking her at the other end of it. I only let her do it for about 2.5 minutes last time because I really, really didn't want to wear the "new" off it, but if it gets me an hour of writing once every week or so, I'll be happy.

 

So thanks! Two at least one-time successes in the bag....

 

She's down now, and I'm still sane, so I'm curling up with my work for a while.

[5kidsforME]

Reya,

Why do you need such an intense schedule for yourself right now? Couldn't you hold off on writing for a little bit, even a few months?

Edited March 12, 2009 by Momto4kids

[Reya]

The parents on these boards have a WIDE variety of children - some geniuses, some struggling with all sorts of physical and mental problems. To me, people here seem pretty accepting of that variety, and I don't think any responders here are making a sideshow of your dd.

 

But when you ask for advice and then repeatedly and lengthily say why it won't work, it's discouraging to those responding to your plea for advice, and I think it's a waste of board space. This is not the first time I've seen you do this.

 

 

Oh, I didn't mean people here! Sorry--I meant that that's why I wouldn't openly share my name--because it can turn into that by the PARENT, no matter what the parent's original goal. This isn't a private board, and I don't want it to get....weird.

 

I don't ask when the answer's easy. If it's easy, I would have done it myself. :-) I try everything I can think of first, then ask my family and try everything THEY can think of, and then I ask my RL friends and try everything THEY can think of. And THEN I ask online.

 

Some things work. Some don't. I could lie and pretend like it was that simple all along--but I'd be lying.

 

(Board books are still a flop--*sighs*)

[ElizabethB]

ARGH!

 

BUT another idea worked! Back on the bath thread, someone suggested letting her play in the tub with the drain open and a trickle of water going. I wasn't sure how much she'd enjoy that since she's so oral, but I drained the tub after our bath tonight, dried her head and back, and stuck her on her belly. (I'm afraid of putting her sitting up on sometihng so slippery.)

 

After sucking on the tub bottom for a while (EEEEEEEEEEEWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!--she loves bath water, but that's 10 times worse!), she pushed herself to the drain and tried to alternately watch the water dripping (and splashing her face) and chasing the water down the drain. She was ALMOST tired enough to go to bed at that point, so if it was going to tick her off, it would have. Instead, she seemed pretty darned happy!

 

To work while she's doing this would involve me getting in a dry tub in shorts with the laptop and sticking her at the other end of it. I only let her do it for about 2.5 minutes last time because I really, really didn't want to wear the "new" off it, but if it gets me an hour of writing once every week or so, I'll be happy.

 

 

You could try a baby bath seat. You would still have to watch her closely, but it would be easier, this one looks best for an active baby:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Safety-1st-Tubside-Bath-Seat/dp/B0012L83UK/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=baby-products&qid=1236834478&sr=8-2

 

You could probably borrow one to see if it's worth buying.

[ElizabethB]

Not sure I'd trust him to pull out the bits of card before she swallows it, though! (Can't laminate--it'd poke her in the mouth.)

 

 

 

How about the old fashioned contact paper? Or wax paper and an iron? Or write letters with marker on an old t-shirt and cut them up.

[Reya]

How about the old fashioned contact paper? Or wax paper and an iron? Or write letters with marker on an old t-shirt and cut them up.

 

T-shirt, she'd LOVE! She loves to chew cloth!

 

I'll go fish one out of the donations bag. :-)))) I can do it tomorrow, while she's playing with her buddy.

[Reya]

Here is your "overscheduled" post you knew you would get--

 

All I can think of while reading this crazy schedule is what is the point? Why run yourself ragged like this? Why not cut back? How can you possibly enjoy your family living like this? Can writing not wait a few years? It hardly seems worth it to me.

:001_huh:

 

I CAN'T. This isn't an interruptible career. Everything gets thrown away if I don't do this now.

 

And no, I can't ask DH to do anything. I don't want to get into it, but that's not possible. It's not that he wouldn't agree. It's just that there would be no follow-through.

 

When I just have another stinking contract, I will hire help at LEAST twice a week. I am dreaming of 20 hrs a week--10 hrs childcare, 10 hrs housekeeping--but that's a wild, distant fantasy at this point.

[Reya]

You could try a baby bath seat. You would still have to watch her closely, but it would be easier, this one looks best for an active baby:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Safety-1st-Tubside-Bath-Seat/dp/B0012L83UK/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=baby-products&qid=1236834478&sr=8-2

 

You could probably borrow one to see if it's worth buying.

 

I'll test the Bumbo I have in the bath! DD usually hates it...but maybe if it's the bath????

[Jenn in Mo]

Like I said before, my oldest was a very early walker and was cruising at 4/5 months. I completely believe you. Though few people believed me until they saw it. And then they assumed I was trying to compare or brag or something. Kids' milestones are a touchy subject, apparently. Most of us parents feel the need to defend where our kids are even when there is no attack.

 

I know it sounds crazy, but I still think the sleep thing is a must. Even when they don't think they need it. Elizabeth Pantley has an excellent book called The No Cry Sleep Solution. She discusses putting them down for naps when they are still completely awake - that a lot of parents wait until there are signs, but the signs are often an indication of being overly tired, making sleep more erratic and less helpful.

 

For the water in the tub thing - it reminded me of what I did with my active guy! We put him in the high chair and poured water in his tray. He loved slapping it and splashing. A lot of magazines recommend shaving cream, but my guy would splash it and then rub his eyes. Not so good. Whipped Cream was good, but definitely required a bath afterwards.

 

Poker cards, sorting blocks, and shoes were favorite distractions. Pulling all the books off of the bookshelf was another favorite. This was time consuming, but it yielded me 15 minutes of freedom. Yes, I had to spend 15 minutes putting them back, but he could stay with me and be happy putting them back. It was worth 15 minutes freedom.

 

I do feel your pain. They want to do so much and get frustrated when they can't. They do need downtime and sleep, probably more than the average baby, though it's difficult to accomplish. White noise was a must for mine....even as an older baby. He just wanted to take everything in and it was hard to get him to let go and just rest. Keep trying!:)

[beansprouts]

BTDT will PM you.