Heather in the Kootenays Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Our French exchange student (16 yo girl) obviously feels that she shouldn't be expected to assist with work I consider family work - dishes, shoveling driveway, filling woodbox - stuff that all of us do as a group. Unless I specifically say xxxx, please help with ... , she disappears to watch TV while the rest of us work. In addition to family chores, she's expected to keep her bathroom (which also doubles as the guest bathroom) clean. Last night she told us that French families just want their children to be happy and therefore they never have to help. She didn't quite say that we were unreasonable but body language speaks volume. She also doesn't find it necessary to say Thank You when I go out of my way for her - for example, drive her places when she's not made arrangements in time etc. She's also painfully short of the other courtesies families use throughout the day. For example, I'm leaving for school now, see you later. Hello, I'm back from school. etc. I've tried to assume these are cultural issues and treated them as such. In Canada, it's appropriate to thank the mom that does extra work on your behalf. In Canada, we all help with the family work. But I'm curious. Are these cultural divides or do I have a spoiled brat living in my house. In case it matters, my dd is the same age and it feels so wrong to make her work while exchange student is lounging in front of the TV. She's not a paying student. She's here because I support the local Rotary exchange (and to further my whine, she's costing us a fortune in food and utility bills - which we can afford. It's just a further irritant.) What do you Francophiles think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmrich Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 I know absolutely nothing about the French live, or the Germans etc.... but when in Rome do as the Romans do. I tell my neice and nephew when at the Richardson's (our name) do as the Richardson's do... works and perks. Good Luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaxMom Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Not an expert, by any stretch, in French familial custom, but given the French language is very rich in specific courtesies, I would think she's just rude. Also, I suspect there are probably innumerable American children who are not required to contribute to the household in any manner, that would tell their host parent the same thing. Seems like an outlook specific to her family or maybe those in her neighborhood to me. (But I'm probably wrong. :D) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen500 Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 I know absolutely nothing about the French live, or the Germans etc.... but when in Rome do as the Romans do. I tell my neice and nephew when at the Richardson's (our name) do as the Richardson's do... works and perks. Good Luck :iagree: Isn't that one reason for being an exchange student anyways? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PariSarah Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 . . . especially since school is just all-consuming there. So I could buy that she is unused to helping out around the house. I don't recall French teens being demonstrably less polite, though. If anything, French culture is more formal in its expression of basic courtesy. If you forget to say "Bonjour" before asking a bus driver if he stops at the Arc de Triomphe, you just may not get an answer. Letters are much more formal. (Instead of "Regards," you would say, "I pray you accept the sincerest expression of my regards for you," or some such.) So I would say that, while certain instances may not trigger a "thank you" response in her where you think it should, in general, French culture is quite demanding in terms of verbal courtesy. I think it's appropriate for you to tell her that she is failing Basic Courtesy 101. What recourse do you have if you feel the placement is "not working out"? Will someone else house her? Perhaps you could let her know that personal courtesy and pitching in with family chores are just non-optional, and that if she is uncomfortable with that, she should ask to be moved. And then make them non-optional, even if it means getting in her face about things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 If she's there as an exchange student, she's there to learn about your culture. You didn't move to France and adopt a daughter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in the Kootenays Posted January 17, 2009 Author Share Posted January 17, 2009 Believe me, I'm making sure she's living like a local. I'm a big believer in "my house, my rules". And her local supervisors are well and truly on my side. It's mostly that I've had at least 20 exchange students over the last 15 years and never had this problem. We've had lots of kids who'd never been expected to do chores because they had servants at home. This is just the first time we've had a student who didn't enthusiastically learn to shovel snow, load woodboxes, etc. This is my first French student though. We certainly aren't changing our rules for her but I am curious about the source of this behavior. Thanks for your feedback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonshineLearner Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 My friend who was straight from France, who I knew in New Jersey 20 years ago, was full of manners. The only time she wondered about the family she was with...was when they asked her to clean the a spot that in French, would mean "chimney". That was over the line...and not what they meant, anyway. All that she worried about from America, was getting fat:-) But she said lots of pleases & thank you. I try to be overly polite and didn't find her rude. And she helped and such when we did meals or whatever, together. Carrie:-) (So, I think you have a little spoiled one with you:-) Also, where in France is she from...I did hear some of those stories:-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 I think you have a spoiled teen on your hands. It is my experience with Belgian, German, Dutch, and one or two French teens that they are helpful, polite, and responsible kiddoes. Perhaps, I've just been fortunate in my acquaintances. For the record, my son will live in Belgium all summer. We are reviewing daily what I expect him to do for his host family--a missionary family. I only hope we are preparing him to make their lives easier! (Which is his purpose in going!) I do not want his host family making a post like this about him. :D Bonne chance in helping this young lady grow up a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in the Kootenays Posted January 17, 2009 Author Share Posted January 17, 2009 She's from LeMons and she really wants to be in LA or New York not rural BC. However, that's not MY problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in the Kootenays Posted January 17, 2009 Author Share Posted January 17, 2009 Here's the one thing I repeat to my dc - watch the family and get the sense of what they do and ask questions. especially May I help? And when she moves on, I'll certainly be debriefing with my dc what went right and what went wrong to avoid anyone ever writing a post like this about them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anne Rittenhouse Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 (edited) Ohhhhh we had one of those when I was a teen.....from Osaka, Japan. Rudest girl we ever met because we didn't live in NYC. She's got deep culture shock and huge disappointment she's not living in Beverly Hills. She's probably used to more freedom than we give our teens in the US and she may not do much housework because school is much more time consuming in Europe. She's also got a climate shock. Snowy places are for weekend ski trips, not for living in don't cha know? I'm sorry you're going through this, and I'm also sorry to say our exchange student never got over being assigned to America's heartland. It's all what you make of it and some kids adapt and others don't. You may have a lemon. Edited January 17, 2009 by Anne Rittenhouse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyGrace Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 has been here about 12 years. She is raising her dc (now here in America) with near perfect manners. She is very diligent with working with them on manners and social niceties, and going out of their way to be helpful. They are actually above the norm compared to what I see in other American kids, due to her hard work with them. I know she is from a rural area in France. Sounds like this girl is either really spoiled, or trying to pull the wool over your eyes about what parents in France expect! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonshineLearner Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Well, Perhaps they should make that something the exchange place takes into account when placing students with families. She still should be kind, but that would be an incredible disappointment, if she wanted a busy city, and got placed in rural. Not that you don't have beautiful, just different. It's kinda one of the problems that some of the older kids have when they're adopted, they're expecting something like the show, "Dallas" and then they get someplace that still carries water(real story!) and it's a big shock! Carrie:-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C_l_e_0..Q_c Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 My best friend, when I was growing up, was French. Her parents were recent immigrants from France. She was born here, but definitely from a French household. She had TONS more chores than I ever did as a child. In fact, *my* childhood corresponds to what your teen seems to have. I was never expected to do anything at all. It may be specific to certain families. As French Canadians, we're not far from France culture, although there's a marked difference. In my family, no child was expected to do chores (not even make my own bed) in her family, the parents never washed the dishes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverfront Headmistress Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 She's just being a teen. I hosted a French exchange student and she was a delight. Funny too, because her family is extrememly wealthy; we're not. She adapted quickly. If your girl works better being told things to do, then give her a list. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Our French exchange student (16 yo girl) obviously feels that she shouldn't be expected to assist with work I consider family work - dishes, shoveling driveway, filling woodbox - stuff that all of us do as a group. Unless I specifically say xxxx, please help with ... , she disappears to watch TV while the rest of us work. In addition to family chores, she's expected to keep her bathroom (which also doubles as the guest bathroom) clean. Last night she told us that French families just want their children to be happy and therefore they never have to help. She didn't quite say that we were unreasonable but body language speaks volume. She also doesn't find it necessary to say Thank You when I go out of my way for her - for example, drive her places when she's not made arrangements in time etc. She's also painfully short of the other courtesies families use throughout the day. For example, I'm leaving for school now, see you later. Hello, I'm back from school. etc. I've tried to assume these are cultural issues and treated them as such. In Canada, it's appropriate to thank the mom that does extra work on your behalf. In Canada, we all help with the family work. But I'm curious. Are these cultural divides or do I have a spoiled brat living in my house. In case it matters, my dd is the same age and it feels so wrong to make her work while exchange student is lounging in front of the TV. She's not a paying student. She's here because I support the local Rotary exchange (and to further my whine, she's costing us a fortune in food and utility bills - which we can afford. It's just a further irritant.) What do you Francophiles think? I know a few French families who immigrated here. Their children do housework/farmwork just like any other kids would. They also know very well how to say their s'il te plais and merci beaucoup. I think you got a rude one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brigitte Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 I agree with Sarah. Because the schooling in France, and Europe in general, is much more rigorous than here, the expectations for help at home is generally less than here. So, I can see where she might not automatically do things to help out, but.....However, manners and courtesy are much more stringently adhered to there than here. I suspect you have a bit of a disgruntled brat on your hands. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ereks mom Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 If she's there as an exchange student, she's there to learn about your culture. You didn't move to France and adopt a daughter. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6packofun Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 I would say this particular child is simply spoiled. I'm not up on the foreign exchange student thing, but it seems that mainly middle to upper-middle class families are able to participate and there's a good chance that many of those kids, regardless of nationality, just don't have to do as much work at home as others do. Just a guess, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetTN Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 We had a French foreign exchange student (17) for one summer. She was quiet and seemed a little unsure of what was expected of her, but always helped when asked. She seemed very much the typical teenager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharon H in IL Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 She's from LeMons and she really wants to be in LA or New York not rural BC. However, that's not MY problem. :lol: Ah, I think we have the source of the problem. The teen who wanted to go to N. America, but didn't mean the rural part (i.e., anywhere not New York or LA). Yes, I vote spoiled with a grudge that you're not in bright lights-big city territory. I think a wee bit of a wake-up call would be in order. I daresay her parents would be horrified. They probably knew she could be a bit of a pill, but had not idea she'd pull all this. A New Yorker who was an American exchange student to Belgium at the same time as I was had the exciting placement of living on a dairy farm in rural farm country, with an older host family who spoke no English (he spoke no Flemish, not surprisingly lol). He was a card and told hilarious stories of how his expectations had to change to suit his environment. For him, it was good. Bonne chance, my dear. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keptwoman Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Well, Perhaps they should make that something the exchange place takes into account when placing students with families. She still should be kind, but that would be an incredible disappointment, if she wanted a busy city, and got placed in rural. Not that you don't have beautiful, just different.It's kinda one of the problems that some of the older kids have when they're adopted, they're expecting something like the show, "Dallas" and then they get someplace that still carries water(real story!) and it's a big shock! Carrie:-) No. Having been involved in an exchange organisation I can tell you that given the chance almost every student leaving would say that they would like to go to the big smoke. Kids get to select a country; beyond that they have to accept what they get. The same thing happens in New Zealand and Australia with kids wanting a city and ending up rural. Your exchange is what you make it. It's never meant to be the easy road. I think a wee bit of a wake-up call would be in order. I daresay her parents would be horrified. They probably knew she could be a bit of a pill, but had not idea she'd pull all this. Yes it certainly sounds like this girl needs a good talking to. But Heather it sounds like you have the situation well in hand. Fortunately someone like her won't put you off as you have experienced the good bits. I often feel sad when a host family gets one like that as their first hosting experience.... it often means it's their last hosting experience. We're just working out what we can do to make room for a student in our home. They add so much to the family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in AL Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 My hubby IS French, and he said it is definitely not a cultural thing. Just like here in the states, families are all different with what they expect their kids to do, but her behavior is in no way cultural and that it sounds like she is just spoiled and/or rude. Assigned chores may not be the norm, but helping when asked is understood, and manners are important! To agree with a pp, I think she's pouting because she didn't wind up in a big city. (the other) Heather in Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandra Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 The only thing i can think of is that when French students are preparing for their baccalaureate (if they take it), everything else would be secondary. But, frankly, your student sounds manipulative -- or maybe lonely and lost? Have you done any chores together? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jld Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 He's going to be an exchange student year after next, and I fear for his shock when he leaves his mother's home. He does nothing, and I do meaning nothing, at home. My sister is a single mom with a high-stress, high-paying job, and no ability, it seems, to discipline her son. Life outside the nest is going to be a rude awakening for Zach . . . Bonjour, Heather in AL. Mon mari est francais, aussi. Il est completement d'accord avec votre mari sur cette jeune fille. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz CA Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 She's from LeMons and she really wants to be in LA or New York not rural BC. However, that's not MY problem. LOL. That is where they all want to be. I was supervisor for three exchange students a few years back and there were definite rules, such as: "You are expected to fit into the family and help with reasonable chores. It's okay to say I don't know how to do this or - perhaps even better, to ask how would you like this done? But it's not okay to lounge in front of the TV while the rest of the family works. If you are working with a supervisor and an agency you should contact the supervisor and see if she can be brought around gently to understanding this. The other thought that crossed my mind was this: Is she possibly cunning and naive enough to figure if she pretends to be uncooperative she will get moved to an area of her choice? Tactics like this would not have worked with the agency with whom I was associated but one never knows how the mind of a teenager works... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 She's from LeMons and she really wants to be in LA or New York not rural BC. However, that's not MY problem. I've spent most of my life living in Los Angeles, and some in NYC (and I'm not complaining) but right about now I'm hankering for a little time in the wilds of British Columbia :001_smile: We live and learn (hopefully :D) Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Maybe rent the movies "My Father's Glory" and "My Mother's Castle" and dream about fun times in the country en francais. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PariSarah Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 (You're the same JLD from the old boards, yes?) I hope you've been doing well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in the Kootenays Posted January 18, 2009 Author Share Posted January 18, 2009 Now I'm sure that I have a spoiled brat on my hands. Because she doesn't dare be openly defiant (that would get her a ticket home with all the parental anger and humiliation that would go with it), it isn't hard to handle - just seriously irritating. It's sad really because here in the boonies, people treat these exchange students really well. They truly are guests in the community. And every now and then we get one that doesn't deserve it. Someone mentioned that she might be lonely. I think that's true. When she first arrived, she had lots of people to hang out with. Now it appears that I'm not the only one who is fed up with her attitude. She is rarely invited out. I'll try not to let this experience sour me on future students. Most of them have been such wonderful additions to the family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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