Anyone want to listen?

[TexasProud]

2 minutes ago, Clarita said:

At this point, if we were talking in real life I've been pursing my lips because I believe I'm younger than you, because I'd be afraid that what I have to say might be (should be) something you know already.

Do you think this is true? I can tell you with certainty this is not true for my mom. Now that her daughter is a grown woman and no longer a child, her regret is how much time she spent raising a child. She would have felt much more fulfilled if she did pursue a career in something else. (Don't be sad for me. I know my mom and I know she loves me but being a mom is not what she wanted to do.) 

You have to know enough people and women to know that not everyone feels fulfilled spending their entire lives just being there for the people they love. 

No. Everything I have ever read says relationships are what matters. Can you point me to some sources that say otherwise?  

[fairfarmhand]

1 minute ago, TexasProud said:

No. Everything I have ever read says relationships are what matters. Can you point me to some sources that say otherwise?  

Can't we have both?

Can't be both do enjoyable to us things and still have the relationships we desire? I mean if the whole time my dh was near me he was wishing he was someplace else I'd desire for him to go do his thing and enjoy it and come back to tell me about it. 

[TexasProud]

Just now, fairfarmhand said:

Can't we have both?

Can't be both do enjoyable to us things and still have the relationships we desire? I mean if the whole time my dh was near me he was wishing he was someplace else I'd desire for him to go do his thing and enjoy it and come back to tell me about it. 

Yes, absolutely. My husband would say the same thing.  In fact, he constantly asks me what I would like that he wants to make sure we are doing what I want as well. I just don't know what that is....  Well, I mean we have talked so as I said, starting in February we or I won't be traveling so much.  And I mean. I was home for 13 weeks in the summer.  But what is the use of that if I end up in my study on my computer on this site or somewhere else.    

I mean I got to do that with seminary and had a ball and LOVED LOVED LOVED it.  Y'all probably didn't hear from me until Covid when it all shut down then mom got cancer so even when it opened up again I couldn't go in person anymore because no one wore masks...  

So yes.  And I led the book club this summer. Went out to lunch with friends.  I will be leading a Bible study in Oct/Nov and doing this devotional thing so yeah, I am making deliberate choices to stay somewhat involved. 

But I do have a duty to my family. 

[TexasProud]

I guess it is just hard.  My dad and I could talk for hours.  My mom and I could in high school and college, but after she remarried and had new kids ( They were 5 and 9 when they got married. I was 23.) they and my grandmother who was living with her became her focus...well that and my sister that was in and out of jobs/depression, (She wrecked my car once.)etc.  My mom knew she didn't have to worry about me. 🙂 

But my sister and I have never been close. Not really close to my extended family either. All  of my children tell me they hope that they have family's that are more like dad's than mine.  Part of this Utah trip includes a week at my sister's house.  I haven't seen her since mom died 2 years ago. We text occasionally and talk maybe once a year.  Oh, and she is doing so much better. Her 3rd husband is WONDERFUL.  I really like him.  She is actually happy and peaceful and doing really well and has been for maybe a decade. 

[TexasProud]

And I guess I don't understand the meaning of unethical.  I thought that was for businesses. What I do may not be healthy, but I am not sure what ethical line it crosses. 

[TexasProud]

The crew wants to watch Two Towers (Lord of the Rings.) So I will be back later. At least that answers the question what to do tonight. 

[Rosie_0801]

26 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

No. Everything I have ever read says relationships are what matters. 

Your relationship with yourself is downright toxic, which makes it a poor foundation for any other.

Like Melissa said, perfection and maturity aren't the same thing.

One is achievable, one is not. One is healthy, one is not. One is human, one is not.

[marbel]

@Melissa LouiseI sure have missed your voice here! 💗

[Melissa Louise]

31 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

And I guess I don't understand the meaning of unethical.  I thought that was for businesses. What I do may not be healthy, but I am not sure what ethical line it crosses. 

Here's an analogy. 

You show up at a house and ask for food. "I'm so hungry!"

Women busy themselves making you a variety of dishes they hope will be nourishing. 

When it's set down in front of you, instead of eating, digesting, growing, you pick at the edges. "I can't eat this food!"

Which is ok. Until it repeats and repeats - the asking for food, the receiving of food, the failure to digest and metabolize. It occurs frequently enough to be a pattern.

At that point, the ethical thing to do is either eat what you've asked to be given, or stop asking for the food. Imo.

ETA And the self compassionate thing to do at that point is to seek out specialised help which can help you understand why you can't eat and digest and grow from what others make for you.

And hopefully help you to be able to do so in the future. 

 

Edited August 19 by Melissa Louise

[marbel]

1 hour ago, TexasProud said:

 

I have tethered myself to my family. Everyone says that you will regret the time you didn't spend with the people you love.. (Well, mine are family anyway. I haven't felt love for a very long time.)  So that is what I am doing. Supposedly, on my deathbed I won't care that I was in a musical but the time I missed with those I loved.  So I am putting in that time.   I mean, I should enjoy being with my children, right?  I should like being with my husband? 

 

47 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

No. Everything I have ever read says relationships are what matters. Can you point me to some sources that say otherwise?  

What do you think matters? You are an intelligent, educated woman. What are your thoughts about this? Don't ask for sources, think about it for yourself. 

[fairfarmhand]

24 minutes ago, marbel said:

@Melissa LouiseI sure have missed your voice here! 💗

Me too! 

[Melissa Louise]

1 hour ago, TexasProud said:

Not a single and I mean a single has ever challenged my thinking. I have been to 5 of them.  I go, expecting them to challenge me and they never, ever do.  You guys are the only ones that have ever challenged me in my entire life. 

Keep trying until you find someone you feel comfortable with. I like psychodynamic psychotherapy - look for someone with a clinical psych background.

If you aren't sticking with any one therapist, you are probably opting out in the rapport/safety building phase.

They won't just sit you down and challenge you straight off. They won't (initially) be as blunt as I'm being with you.

First you build a relationship. The intra-personal and Interpersonal dynamics emerge during sessions. The therapist draws your attention to them and offers hypotheses. You explore the meaning or lack of meaning together. Over time, you change. 

[regentrude]

@Melissa Louise so good to see you back!

[Innisfree]

@Melissa Louise I’m glad to see you, too. 

[Clarita]

1 hour ago, TexasProud said:

No. Everything I have ever read says relationships are what matters. Can you point me to some sources that say otherwise?  

Well, I also can't find any scientific sources that say at your deathbed you won't care about anything but the time you spent with your loved ones. 

In fact a google search points to one direction where this thought is based on which is a book by Bonnie Ware. On her website she seems to have summarized 5 common regrets https://bronnieware.com/blog/regrets-of-the-dying/. Note five common regrets, not the one regret. 

Quote

1. I wish I’d had the courage to live a life true to myself, not the life others expected of me.
2. I wish I hadn’t worked so hard.
3. I wish I’d had the courage to express my feelings.
4.  I wish I had stayed in touch with my friends.
5. I wish that I had let myself be happier.

I'm happy to engage in a debate because it is a hobby of my husband and mine. This is when we have hours long conversations for days, is debate. But why are you seeking to debate me on this? This got brought up because I do believe you are happy, content, peaceful, and with purpose a lot of times. Occasionally you don't feel those feelings and you come here. Are there no moments in your life where you feel happy, content, peaceful, and with purpose?

You are a grown woman capable of knowing whether your family obligations bring you happiness and joy, whether those relationships bring you enjoyment or are just dutybound.

As a grown woman with a mother, I can tell you I don't want a dutybound relationship with my mom; I want her to be in relationship with me because she enjoys the times she spends with me. If that means less time with me (in my mom's case it does); I prefer that over her duty binding herself to be there for my ballet performance, graduation, birth of grandchildren, holidays, etc.   

 

Edited August 20 by Clarita

[Frances]

6 hours ago, TexasProud said:

Yes, I am so now what.  I conciously chose to stay home this summer and rest.  And I have nothing to show for it. No clarity or anything. If anything I feel worse.  Literally I had weeks this summer with NOTHING on the agenda and much of that hubby wasn't here either.  So I don't know exactly what you guys are asking me to do.  I tried this. 

And I spend an hour just praying and meditating and quieting my thoughts every day.. But really, it just feels like ruminating to be honest.

Yeah, my advice would be the opposite of most here. You are incredibly blessed with lots of free time, relatively good health, and way more than adequate financial resources. I would focus so much on doing for others that you don’t have time to be bored or ruminate or spiral, etc. It sounds like what you really need is a job or full time volunteer position, but your current lifestyle doesn’t allow it.

[fairfarmhand]

24 minutes ago, Frances said:

Yeah, my advice would be the opposite of most here. You are incredibly blessed with lots of free time, relatively good health, and way more than adequate financial resources. I would focus so much on doing for others that you don’t have time to be bored or ruminate or spiral, etc. It sounds like what you really need is a job or full time volunteer position, but your current lifestyle doesn’t allow it.

I agree that external structure would be helpful. Some of us (ahem, me) have a hard time with loads of unstructured time. I need some things to add frame to my day and I’m ironically so much more productive when I have structure. 

[Halftime Hope]

I will also say that I've learned not to allow myself to ruminate when I'm sick. Illness puts me into mild depression...the blues. When I'm sick, I make sure that my mind cannot just wallow.

I have learned that I have to ignore the feelings it until the illness blows over and not put too much stock in that temporary state, in the thoughts and emotions during that time.

[lauraw4321]

I think for the vast majority of people who engage on these threads, they know what to expect before they open it. So I don’t think it’s unethical. I’m choosing to engage knowing that what I say may be rejected. I have that choice as well. 
 

please do not quote next part which I will delete. 

Edited August 20 by lauraw4321

[TexasProud]

1 hour ago, Melissa Louise said:

Keep trying until you find someone you feel comfortable with. I like psychodynamic psychotherapy - look for someone with a clinical psych background.

If you aren't sticking with any one therapist, you are probably opting out in the rapport/safety building phase.

They won't just sit you down and challenge you straight off. They won't (initially) be as blunt as I'm being with you.

First you build a relationship. The intra-personal and Interpersonal dynamics emerge during sessions. The therapist draws your attention to them and offers hypotheses. You explore the meaning or lack of meaning together. Over time, you change. 

Honestly.  I am done.  I took y'all's advice several times on this.  My first therapist I had for a year and a half. She let me talk about my husband on and on and on and never challenged me on so many things or saw the red flags she should have.

Second one I had for a year.  The one that I told about my complicated story with my husband's injury that I caused. (And say what you want those that know..)  Her answer....that is hard, have you prayed about it???    REally?  I dropped her soon after when the psychiatrist released me and said I was doing great.

The next one I had for 6 months and again, no challenging.  Now the other two I saw, yeah maybe not.  But one was so young and when I told her about my traumatic stuff if almost seemed like she was traumatized and wasn't quite sure what to do with it. And yes, you guys tell me to be real and I was with her and she seemed quite shaken. 

I rarely ask for help. I forced myself to several times, but I am just done. Just done. I just don't get help unless I help myself. 

[TexasProud]

And I am sorry the whole analogy with food falls apart.  I have listened ( sought therapy) and done other things the board suggested.  I want someone to listen. As Laura said, they can choose to or not.  I am not holding them prisoner to listen. Lots of people on this board have me on ignore. So, not buying the not ethical argument. 

[TexasProud]

1 hour ago, Clarita said:

Well, I also can't find any scientific sources that say at your deathbed you won't care about anything but the time you spent with your loved ones. 

In fact a google search points to one direction where this thought is based on which is a book by Bonnie Ware. On her website she seems to have summarized 5 common regrets https://bronnieware.com/blog/regrets-of-the-dying/. Note five common regrets, not the one regret. 

I'm happy to engage in a debate because it is a hobby of my husband and mine. This is when we have hours long conversations for days, is debate. But why are you seeking to debate me on this? This got brought up because I do believe you are happy, content, peaceful, and with purpose a lot of times. Occasionally you don't feel those feelings and you come here. Are there no moments in your life where you feel happy, content, peaceful, and with purpose?

You are a grown woman capable of knowing whether your family obligations bring you happiness and joy, whether those relationships bring you enjoyment or are just dutybound.

 

Thank you for the list. 

I am not seeking to debate.  I just need to know what the right choice and scientific/rational choices should lead to a good outcome.  So I need to make the right choice.  That is it. I am not trying to debate.  I just need someone to prove to me which is the right choice. 

[TexasProud]

1 hour ago, Frances said:

Yeah, my advice would be the opposite of most here. You are incredibly blessed with lots of free time, relatively good health, and way more than adequate financial resources. I would focus so much on doing for others that you don’t have time to be bored or ruminate or spiral, etc. It sounds like what you really need is a job or full time volunteer position, but your current lifestyle doesn’t allow it.

 

1 hour ago, fairfarmhand said:

I agree that external structure would be helpful. Some of us (ahem, me) have a hard time with loads of unstructured time. I need some things to add frame to my day and I’m ironically so much more productive when I have structure. 

Yes, I agree.  Which is why I do love the mission work. I am busy and I am needed. I like it. I have purpose and particularly in Kenya it has a nice pace to it. Yes, some days/situations are hard. (I once had to counsel/pray with three different families with patients who died, including a child.) But they balance out with days that are not. The pace is much slower. My husband and I take a ton of walks. I love having dinner with various people while we are there. I love it. I could do that full time, but my husband's health couldn't take it.  At the end of 5 weeks, he is completely spent.

 

[TexasProud]

2 hours ago, marbel said:

 

What do you think matters? You are an intelligent, educated woman. What are your thoughts about this? Don't ask for sources, think about it for yourself. 

I have no idea at all.  I don't know what I would feel at the end of my life and no way to know how I would. 

[TexasProud]

@lauraw4321 Yes, sometimes I do wonder about that.  But honestly, I think I would be on here posting about how lonely I was and how I don't have anyone.  But maybe not.  I mean knowing what I know now.... Yeah, maybe so...though I don't know...  I do love my husband. 

I love RVing because he laughs and jokes and we have a great time like we used to before children and before his work. TeA is much better. We hike a ton and see cool new sights. And yes, I love that. It is marriage more the way I wish it could be at home, but will never be. 

[TexasProud]

52 minutes ago, Halftime Hope said:

I will also say that I've learned not to allow myself to ruminate when I'm sick. Illness puts me into mild depression...the blues. When I'm sick, I make sure that my mind cannot just wallow.

I have learned that I have to ignore the feelings it until the illness blows over and not put too much stock in that temporary state, in the thoughts and emotions during that time.

Good advice.  How do you do that, though exactly.  When I am sick, I don't feel like doing much. So what else is there but rumination? 

But yes, you are right. 

[marbel]

1 minute ago, TexasProud said:

I have no idea at all.  I don't know what I would feel at the end of my life and no way to know how I would. 

No sources anyone gives you would be able to tell you that. 

Of course no one knows. We are all doing the best we can, based on our owns beliefs about end of life/after life. I try to think about what God might say to me when I see him face to face. Then I think about various scriptures that can guide me. So, come to think of it, I guess there's a source for you.

[TexasProud]

2 hours ago, Clarita said:

 

You are a grown woman capable of knowing whether your family obligations bring you happiness and joy, whether those relationships bring you enjoyment or are just dutybound.

 

But I don't really.  I really don't. 

[TexasProud]

1 minute ago, marbel said:

No sources anyone gives you would be able to tell you that. 

Of course no one knows. We are all doing the best we can, based on our owns beliefs about end of life/after life. I try to think about what God might say to me when I see him face to face. Then I think about various scriptures that can guide me. So, come to think of it, I guess there's a source for you.

Well then, love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind and strength and love others as yourself.   And to know I will hear, "Well done, thy good and faithful servant."

But how best to love...that is the question.  And I don't know exactly what to do to be able to hear that. 

[TexasProud]

@Melissa Louise  Good to see you. 

Thank you for taking the time to chime in.  I appreciate it. I do. Glad you are doing better. Hope you are able to reconcile with the one child at some point. 

[Rosie_0801]

There is no way to immunise yourself against Reality.

 

I was reading a play the other day, like a coming of age story but the characters were in their 40's. What I took away is that we can behave like children for our whole lives, but we can't keep our youth forever.

 

How to love? That's somewhere in the middle of what they need and what you need out of the relationship. How BEST to love? What's best? Love isn't about perfection. Life isn't about perfection. Loving the humans in your life isn't meant to be a performative trick to scam an A++ out of God. 

[Halftime Hope]

10 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

Good advice.  How do you do that, though exactly.  When I am sick, I don't feel like doing much. So what else is there but rumination? 

But yes, you are right. 

When I'm sick (with something makes me marginally sick like a UTI, URI, even COVID, which for me was trivial), I do my best to eat healthy, get moderate exercise and sun, sleep, and then occupy my brain with conversation with family, very good friends (they put up with me!), and mostly either music or podcasts.

Sometimes I'm working from home for short bursts, and then dozing off to a podcast. I really try to be active for a bit then rest a bit. It took me a couple of times in my early 50s to recognize that this was a new pattern, and I've learned how to guard against spiraling with it.

[fairfarmhand]

As far as “being there” for my adult children…

im doing something for myself that will eventually take a lot of time. My youngest is 16 and everyone else are adults. Yes, it will probably mean that they won’t have the “drops everything for the grandkids” grandma. But they’re glad for me to pursue something for myself. They know I sacrificed for them. They’ll manage just fine and I’ll support them as well as i can, balancing the thing I’m doing and the joy in helping them parent better. 
 

they love me enough that they don’t want be falling on my sword for them. 
 

So don’t let all your dds shows run your life unless you absolutely love it. Don’t allow serving your family to crush you and your dreams.

[Clarita]

1 hour ago, TexasProud said:

3 hours ago, Clarita said:

 

You are a grown woman capable of knowing whether your family obligations bring you happiness and joy, whether those relationships bring you enjoyment or are just dutybound.

 

But I don't really.  I really don't. 

I said you are capable of knowing, which you are because, you know this. 

1 hour ago, TexasProud said:

I love RVing because he laughs and jokes and we have a great time like we used to before children and before his work. TeA is much better. We hike a ton and see cool new sights. And yes, I love that. It is marriage more the way I wish it could be at home, but will never be. 

 

[Frances]

1 hour ago, TexasProud said:

Well then, love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind and strength and love others as yourself.   And to know I will hear, "Well done, thy good and faithful servant."

But how best to love...that is the question.  And I don't know exactly what to do to be able to hear that. 

You seem to crave things to be black and white in a gray world. What do you have to know how best to love? It’s not a competition. You seem to want an exact answer when it’s not possible to get one. I will say that when I was a Christian, I always thought Catholic nuns came the closest to what God desired. Live simply, generally forego material things, be of service to others, love others as yourself, and in all things seek God. But obviously those who choose marriage and a family have a different path. 

[Frances]

2 hours ago, TexasProud said:

 

Yes, I agree.  Which is why I do love the mission work. I am busy and I am needed. I like it. I have purpose and particularly in Kenya it has a nice pace to it. Yes, some days/situations are hard. (I once had to counsel/pray with three different families with patients who died, including a child.) But they balance out with days that are not. The pace is much slower. My husband and I take a ton of walks. I love having dinner with various people while we are there. I love it. I could do that full time, but my husband's health couldn't take it.  At the end of 5 weeks, he is completely spent.

 

So then why don’t you flip things and you go on more missions while he stays home and and recharges and enjoys the acreage you say he must have. He goes on the same number he does now and you do an additional few each year so missions is the major thing in your life for this season.

[Clarita]

3 hours ago, TexasProud said:

Thank you for the list. 

I am not seeking to debate.  I just need to know what the right choice and scientific/rational choices should lead to a good outcome.  So I need to make the right choice.  That is it. I am not trying to debate.  I just need someone to prove to me which is the right choice. 

There will never be a scientific study that tells you that. At best a scientific study can tell you is what most people regret or what is the right choice for most people, but for you specifically it's not going to happen.

Even with something like learning to read all science has really said about it is most students can learn to read or is better served by being taught phonics. Not all children only learn to read via phonics. For each individual student, there is still room for other methods to be the best. (Just to be clear a school with a community of students should absolutely teach phonics because of the statistics. It's just if you are faced with only one individual student another method could be better.)

[LaughingCat]

There is no one in this world who 100% of the time feels "happy, content, peaceful, joyful and with purpose"

99+% of people will have nothing to "show" for their life within 20 years after they're gone. Yes, there is a very small % who have actually affected the world -- but most people don't even remember who they are.  And in any case pretending to yourself that you personally need to be in that extremely small % is fooling yourself. Plus even if people did think you currently were in that small % NOW doesn't mean that is correct -- look at Van Gogh for instance -- he obviously did not feel "happy, content, peaceful, joyful and with purpose" but still has changed many people's lives.  Or look at the guy who came up with washing your hands before surgery whose name most of us have no idea what it is-- he probably changed more people's lives for the better than anyone -- and he did not feel "happy, content, peaceful, joyful and with purpose" (thrown out of his hospital, died in an insane asylum).

This is not a statement on you personally -- sounds likely you have impacted someone's life positively in a way that changes them --from your travels or from your writing. But believing you must be able to see the impact and feel joy in what you are doing is where you are fooling yourself IMO. 

Everyone has times where they feel more purpose, joy etc.  And times where they feel less.  That is normal life.  It is not the horrible thing you are telling yourself it is. 

Do the next thing.  Examine your life to see if you think there might be a better next thing you could be doing based on what you currently know.  Now do that thing.  Repeat through wins and failures (with a break now and then).  That is life. 

Probably too late for me to be reading and writing because clearly I'm waxing too philosophical -- here's hoping you figure out what you want to do and can do more of it!

[TexasProud]

5 hours ago, Frances said:

So then why don’t you flip things and you go on more missions while he stays home and and recharges and enjoys the acreage you say he must have. He goes on the same number he does now and you do an additional few each year so missions is the major thing in your life for this season.

By myself?????  No way!  My point for that post was to say I could live in that one place year round.  I would feel grounded and tethered if we did that. Physically, my husband is not able to do that. So me going to various mission works in lots of places and by myself where I don't know what to expect... Yeah, no. That one particular mission in Kenya (which is where Dawn grew up btw) is a community.  You walk everywhere. Everyone stops in the middle of the day for chai. You are constantly inviting people over or being invited over. My husband is normally home at a decent time. In fact, we take walks after work nearly every day and really long ones on the weekends. I talk to a ton of people from all over the world and find out their life stories. I minister to the Kenyans with their own fascinating stories. 

And there is absolutely no way my husband would stay here on the place by himself.  It is super hard for him to do missions without me or really anything without me.  When he did go to counseling, I had to go with him. And that by the way, is an example of a counselor not challenging.  I mean really.  What husband brings his wife to his personal counseling session? Then several months in the counselor asked me to say something about our marriage. I brought up a situation and he laughed and said it was normal. Now, Rosie and probably most of you on here would have said it was normal, but then you would have challenged me and said, "Do you feel like you have failed if you have any conflict at all? What are your expectations? Is that healthy?"  You would not have laughed at me. 

But if for some reason, I said I want to go full time, he would try to make it work.  And then he would have another medical episode.  Because he would throw himself in front of a bus for me. He did and that is how he ended up in this condition. I don't really want to ask anything more of him than I absolutely have to. 

And I could choose to stay here permanently and never do travel again. And I would watch him wither away from lack of purpose. He is really struggling with his physical limitations and really misses practicing. But he would do it for me if I asked. 

Now, all that said, it doesn't have to be all or nothing. And as I said before, we have already talked about it and he wants to pull back on some of the traveling as well. So starting in Feb 2025 as I already said, it will be less.  I just have to make it till then. 🙂  But I had almost the whole summer at home, so hopefully that helps. 

But me, a full time missionary by myself? No way. To be honest, being a missionary was never on my radar until I married my husband. Then I went with him and discovered that I enjoy it.  But I would never go without my husband. 

 

[TexasProud]

Ughh.  So not sure if I have poison ivy or if it was a reaction to the antibiotic. I've quit taking it and hubby suggested I take benadryl last night.  Yeah, you would think it would help me sleep...but no. But I am not itching nearly as much this morning. I really wish sometimes that my body would react normally to meds.  Sigh.

I have two Zoom meetings back to back and then I go to the dentist to get my crown.  What a lovely morning. Lack of sleep is not going to help my mood. 

 

Edited August 20 by TexasProud

[TexasProud]

7 hours ago, Halftime Hope said:

When I'm sick (with something makes me marginally sick like a UTI, URI, even COVID, which for me was trivial), I do my best to eat healthy, get moderate exercise and sun, sleep, and then occupy my brain with conversation with family, very good friends (they put up with me!), and mostly either music or podcasts.

Sometimes I'm working from home for short bursts, and then dozing off to a podcast. I really try to be active for a bit then rest a bit. It took me a couple of times in my early 50s to recognize that this was a new pattern, and I've learned how to guard against spiraling with it.

Well I walked.  But there is no one here to talk to. All my friends work during the day. My hubby is doing his solar stuff. Son is working (though he isn't usually here. He just came here for a couple of weeks).   But yeah I could try listening to podcasts.  But they tend to make me feel a little frustrated because I can't do everything like they say.  Active for a bit?  I mean we walk 2.5 - 5 miles in the morning depending on the day. So what do you do in the middle of the day.  It is in the 100's here then, so nothing outside. 

[TexasProud]

And we just booked our flights for the mission conference in December and were able to find a flight that got us back here on Saturday night so I could sing on Sunday.

So we do try to accommodate me. If he knows it is important, he will do his best to make it work. 

We also decided to go a day early and do something in the area...maybe do Dollywood with all its Christmas lights again. 🙂 

Off to do our morning walk.

Edited August 20 by TexasProud

[SKL]

Well I can relate to the planner thing.

I have tried different ones, but they end up being another to-do!  My favorite planners so far are these very simple ones I ordered off Walmart.com.  They aren't too tiny to write in several items on a given day.  They don't give you more stuff to do (list your gratitude items, bla bla bla).  They are very easy to take everywhere.  And they cover 2 years.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/2024-25-Monthly-Stapled-Planner-8-5x11-by-Blue-Sky-Gretel/5051216081?classType=REGULAR&from=/search

There's a nice sense of order that comes just from writing down all the upcoming events & in crossing off each thing / each day that gets done.

[TexasProud]

1 hour ago, SKL said:

Well I can relate to the planner thing.

I have tried different ones, but they end up being another to-do!  My favorite planners so far are these very simple ones I ordered off Walmart.com.  They aren't too tiny to write in several items on a given day.  They don't give you more stuff to do (list your gratitude items, bla bla bla).  They are very easy to take everywhere.  And they cover 2 years.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/2024-25-Monthly-Stapled-Planner-8-5x11-by-Blue-Sky-Gretel/5051216081?classType=REGULAR&from=/search

There's a nice sense of order that comes just from writing down all the upcoming events & in crossing off each thing / each day that gets done.

Yes, right now I have three planners I am using.  I need the following things and haven't found them in one planner:

I like to have months so that I can see everything going on for the month.  I also like to make a monthly list of all the things that I need and would like to get done.

Then I need to have a weekly spread. The weekly spread needs to have a spot where I can take from the things from that monthly list that I think I can accomplish that week.  Then I pencil in the days each of those things will get done.

Then I have a daily spread.  So the night before or the morning of that day, I look at what I have penciled in.  I do what Cal Newport suggests and block plan.  So I block out times to answer emails or time to write or whatever.  It rarely goes exactly like that but if I do that, I can see if I am being completely unrealistic.  I also like a spot where I can write down things that I come to me that I need to do or ideas I have for blog posts or whatever.  At the end of the day, I then transfer those ideas to the monthly list or the blog idea list or wherever they go.  I like to be able to take out that daily spread so that I can take it with me to remind myself of what order the errands need to go or what.

But then of course, I go to the mission field and that month is basically unused.  For an RV trip the monthly and weekly ones are used.  Daily, not so much.  if we have down time, then i just take from my weekly list. 

Anyway, that is my planning style.  There is a reason that when for seminary I had to ask people who knew me to describe me their top word was organized, then creativity, then caring.  But yeah...  

[Clarita]

6 hours ago, TexasProud said:

Because he would throw himself in front of a bus for me. He did and that is how he ended up in this condition. I don't really want to ask anything more of him than I absolutely have to. 

He is a big boy he needs to 1) learn to listen to his body and 2) to say no to you, because you need to be able to voice out all your wants and desires (frivolous or not) and have a partner to figure it out with. 

I know there is history here that makes this not just possible. In the past when my husband and I need to start practicing having certain conversations, but we aren't in a completely healthy space to have these conversations, we'd come up with a specific decided upon phrases that signal a certain type of conversation is going to happen.

In this situation maybe the code phrase is "I have a crazy idea...," where this signals a conversation where you two aren't trying to figure out how to make this idea happen, but you will have a conversation about what it might look like and how everyone really feels about it.   

[TexasProud]

19 minutes ago, Clarita said:

He is a big boy he needs to 1) learn to listen to his body and 2) to say no to you, because you need to be able to voice out all your wants and desires (frivolous or not) and have a partner to figure it out with. 

I know there is history here that makes this not just possible. In the past when my husband and I need to start practicing having certain conversations, but we aren't in a completely healthy space to have these conversations, we'd come up with a specific decided upon phrases that signal a certain type of conversation is going to happen.

In this situation maybe the code phrase is "I have a crazy idea...," where this signals a conversation where you two aren't trying to figure out how to make this idea happen, but you will have a conversation about what it might look like and how everyone really feels about it.   

Yeah, honestly we are so incredibly enmeshed.  And part of it is that until my giant collapse in 2014, he had no idea how unhappy I was or anything.  He realized and even said this the other day that if he isn't careful, he can not exactly steamroll me but just make plans and do things and I agree to whatever whether I truly want to or not.  So ever since then, he has been super super vigilant to make sure I am ok with the plans.  Asking me over and over.  We cannot stand to hurt or disappoint each other.  We each monitor each other for the slightest sign of upset.  He asks me often, "Are you ok?  Are you mad at me?"

We are like these couples:

This month we will explore some of the dynamics and relevant issues with the conflict-avoidant couple. These couples look deceptively easy when they first present for therapy. They are often friendly and kind, and there is no obvious tension. In fact, that is a primary source of the difficulty. There is no tension! Frequently, they present with the complaint of “no passion.”

Conflict avoidant couples often have spent years being superficially nice to one another. They may even be revered by friends and family for “being the perfect couple.” They have been nice for so long that the partners no longer know what they think or feel as individuals. One couple said they organized their relationship around three principles -caring, compassion and politeness.

However, all is not well in paradise. The price paid for that emotional security is the surrender of strong individual desires. The “we” has trumped the “I” in most areas of interdependency. Their enmeshment provides the illusion of security. 

 

Then the scenario she points out here is a lot like me.  I am Sally, but I would say that so is my husband. I think he has calmed down, but before 2014 he was terrified I would leave him. 

https://www.couplesinstitute.com/choice-points-in-disrupting-symbiosis-in-conflict-avoidant-couples-moving-these-couples-forward/

Edited August 20 by TexasProud

[Clarita]

So my husband and I had different issues (we couldn't communicate our feelings). The code phrases to make a sandbox for us to try out having the conversations we should be having was really helpful for us. I don't know if the code phrase is enough or maybe you even need a physical object or place. The lack of commitment (action) from the conversation and the knowledge that we may both say the wrong things and we could back out of what we said or felt during those conversations made it a safe space.

 

[TexasProud]

@Clarita I guess I am not completely understanding how I would bring up using a code word.  And I guess I don't get exactly what the code word would do.  I am sorry.  I am dense.  I mean just because you say, "I have a crazy idea" doesn't stop the other person from looking at microexpressions, tone of voice to determine if the other person is getting upset or not... 

I am sorry. I am super dense.  

[marbel]

7 hours ago, TexasProud said:

Because he would throw himself in front of a bus for me. He did and that is how he ended up in this condition. I don't really want to ask anything more of him than I absolutely have to. 

So, because your husband wants so much to please you, you have to stifle your feelings, wants, desires so that he won't do something which could lead to harm to his health?  I'm just looking for clarity because I am quite dense and I'm not understanding. When you say your husband will move heaven and earth, etc, to make you happy, and yet you can't talk to him about things that might make you happy? 

And you are both so keyed in on subtext (microexpressions, tone of voice) that you can't have an honest conversation?  

Just wondering if I'm getting this right? I can be quite dense myself.

[TexasProud]

Just now, marbel said:

So, because your husband wants so much to please you, you have to stifle your feelings, wants, desires so that he won't do something which could lead to harm to his health?  I'm just looking for clarity because I am quite dense and I'm not understanding. When you say your husband will move heaven and earth, etc, to make you happy, and yet you can't talk to him about things that might make you happy? 

And you are both so keyed in on subtext (microexpressions, tone of voice) that you can't have an honest conversation?  

Just wondering if I'm getting this right? I can be quite dense myself.

Yes.  Well, I would say that on my husband's side it is probably a lot more honest than on my side. He can stand his ground when needed.  But ever since I was suicidal on that stupid medication, he is terrified and doesn't want me to go back to that mindset.  Thankfully, that was a drug thing.  My middle one calls Lexapro the medicine from Satan as it made both me and my oldest son suicidal. Neither one of us were like that...I mean we may have been depressed, but not majorly so... the difference in my thinking when I was on that drug was absolutely scary.  (And I know it works super well for other people.  Not for us.)

Another part for me, and I have been this way since I was a kid.  I will not ask for anything unless I know I can get a yes.  I saved my go against mom and dad only for things that felt super important.  I would list out all of their objections and figure out rebuttals to them. If I didn't have strong enough rebuttals, then I would never ask.  As a result, they never said no to me when I asked for something.   And so I am not going to ask my husband for anything unless I know it causes him no harm and I am sure he will say yes. Now, let me clarify that these are more emotional things. I spend whatever I want, whenever I want, and never have to "ask permission".  Of course, I am much more frugal ( and he is pretty frugal) than he is.  I don't ask him before doing a ladies Bible study or whatever.  I mean I tell him I am doing it.   The areas would be TeA and emotional support and I mean I guess I did run the seminary thing by him, but I was using the money my dad left me, so it wouldn't impact our budget and I really wanted to, so I knew he wouldn't say it wasn't a good idea.  Anyway, we are both pretty independent and don't interfere with each other's choices very much.