Did you include AP scores on your student's transcript?

[EKT]

My daughter is applying test-optional, so we are obviously not including SAT or ACT scores on her transcript (or anywhere else on her application). But she did take one AP course in 10th grade - AP Art History, and she scored well (she got a 4). Should I put this AP exam score on the transcript, or just in the course descriptions? (Would there be any reason to omit it all together, even from the course descriptions?) For context, her transcript is strong - excellent GPA and lots of DE. 

 

My thoughts:

Pros to including the score on the transcript:

• I feel like sharing her AP exam score on her transcript shows that she is capable of scoring well on a standardized test. (Might help her case, since she is otherwise applying test-optional?) Additionally, AP Art History is a very challenging AP, and she took this course as a sophomore. It is also directly related to her prospective major (Fine Arts/Illustration/Graphic Design). 

Cons to including the score on her transcript:

• The score is not a 5.
• Is it weird to include AP scores on the transcript at all?

 

Thank you for your thoughts!

[mlktwins]

I put my boys’ on the transcript along with their SAT scores, but those were very strong scores. It shows they are capable of understanding and testing on higher level work. In addition, they are up against many public school kids often with multiple AP scores.

If you decide not to add them to the transcript, you will want to look at the school she decides to go to and see if she can get credit for the 4. My guys earned credit for 3 gen Ed’s with their scores (2 of which also knocked out 2 pre-reqs for their major).

I can’t think of a reason not to include AP scores of 4 or 5 on a transcript.

[NittanyJen]

I included AP scores on the transcript, along with SAT scores. Although there is a separate place on the Common App and you will need to report scores separately from the College Board account eventually, for scores you wish to disclose, the transcript is a kind of easy to read snapshot of your student’s academic record and potential. Having those objective/outside evaluations that colleges do know how to interpret, I felt, could only be helpful in evaluating our homeschool transcript. I have no idea if the person initially scanning the transcript will be looking at all the other documentation, so I included it.

I also think reporting a 4 is a a good idea; it is a strong score. And at some colleges a 3 is enough to get course credit.

Good luck!

Jen Driscoll

AP Statistics/PA Homeschoolers

 

[luuknam]

20 hours ago, NittanyJen said:

Although there is a separate place on the Common App

Would I be correct in guessing that space also lets you report CLEP scores? 

And, would there be a point in reporting CLEP scores on a transcript when they're already on the kid's college transcript (but they don't show the actual scores there, just credit for them)? My oldest so far has a 71, a 75, and a 79, iirc (20-80 scale, passing scores were 54-55 (depending on the subject) at the college he's dual enrolled at that gave him credit). 

[Roadrunner]

I included them. I am not sure I needed to do that at all since there is a place to report them on the application, but I think my transcript was better formatted with scores on it than without. 😉

[mlktwins]

Mine only took 1 CLEP and I included it on the transcript along with their SAT Subject Test Score (before they did away with them). Just FYI, one of my guys received credit for a gen ed from his CLEP score. My other guy's school didn't offer credit for CLEP. 

[JennyD]

I also put AP and SAT scores on the transcript.

 

[Farrar]

No. Absolutely not.

Schools and thus homeschoolers used to do this. It is no longer considered best practice. I have heard from multiple college admissions offices that they prefer scores not be on the transcript. Thus, don't, even if it used to be the thing. Even if your kid is applying with their proud scores.

[lewelma]

2 hours ago, Farrar said:

No. Absolutely not.

Schools and thus homeschoolers used to do this. It is no longer considered best practice. I have heard from multiple college admissions offices that they prefer scores not be on the transcript. Thus, don't, even if it used to be the thing. Even if your kid is applying with their proud scores.

Why is this the new standard? What do they not like about putting them on the transcript?

[EKT]

26 minutes ago, lewelma said:

Why is this the new standard? What do they not like about putting them on the transcript?

Yes, can you please explain why? I genuinely would love to understand! 

Would you include the scores in the Course Descriptions instead of on the transcript? 

[Farrar]

Colleges expect scores to be in the hands of the student now. They don't want schools involved in those, taking that control away from students. Basically, this is a test optional landscape thing. But even schools that seem to heavily emphasize the scores seem to want it in student hands. But also, different schools do different things with the scores and when and how they read them. I think they want it where they want it.

That said, I seriously doubt a student is substantially hurt by you putting it on there. It's just not "best practice" anymore.

[regentrude]

Interesting,  @Farrar.

As an advisor, I would absolutely love it if there was a single document that had all the information and I didn't have to hunt through the entire application portal for AP scores and possible DE credit when I prepare for an incoming student’s class registration session. 

[Farrar]

1 hour ago, regentrude said:

Interesting,  @Farrar.

As an advisor, I would absolutely love it if there was a single document that had all the information and I didn't have to hunt through the entire application portal for AP scores and possible DE credit when I prepare for an incoming student’s class registration session. 

But unless every school was doing it the same way, surely it's quicker for you to find it in the same place in the application? I actually assume this is partially a workflow issue. Like how I don't want my students to email me homework. It needs to be in Canvas. Yes, even if your email felt like it was nicer o something.

Also, that's a cruddy set up on the part of your school. I'd think transferred coursework would be with the student's transcript and thus really clear to professors.

[regentrude]

44 minutes ago, Farrar said:

But unless every school was doing it the same way, surely it's quicker for you to find it in the same place in the application?

Also, that's a cruddy set up on the part of your school. I'd think transferred coursework would be with the student's transcript and thus really clear to professors.

It will be eventually in the "materials" tab, once the student has submitted their final college transcript for DE, but that won't be available at first-year registration which happens during spring of their senior year.

There's a place in the portal where students can self-report their DE, sometimes (yay!) with college and course number so I can look up equivalencies, sometimes vaguely or not at all. They self-report their APs but some don't list any scores, and it's often unclear which have been completed and which are planned (they won't have the official score report sent until later because the senior year APs aren't until May and scores not in until July). If I'm lucky, there's a Common App where I can look whether they listed AP scores they already have.

Not only do we need this for enrollment,  but also for departmental merit scholarships, which were much easier to figure out when ACT/SAT was mandatory - now it's a "holistic" evaluation of everything. 

Once upon a time, there was staff in the admissions office who would pull and compile all that info for us in a nice folder for each student. Now that, too, has become  a task faculty advisors are expected to do. Because it saves the school money if they don't have to hire staff; the professors will just deal with it.

Edited August 14 by regentrude

[lewelma]

That is so interesting Farrar. I had so many homemade courses that I gave my son As in (like 20) that I wanted to prove that they were reasonable. So I had an entire section on scores with 1580 and a bunch of 800s and equivalent of 5 on APs. Kind of like "if you question my grading, check out scores in other classes, then you will shut up". I wanted it all on one sheet of paper so they could see the big picture and not question the mommy grades.

 

[NittanyJen]

On 8/12/2024 at 7:26 PM, luuknam said:

Would I be correct in guessing that space also lets you report CLEP scores? 

And, would there be a point in reporting CLEP scores on a transcript when they're already on the kid's college transcript (but they don't show the actual scores there, just credit for them)? My oldest so far has a 71, a 75, and a 79, iirc (20-80 scale, passing scores were 54-55 (depending on the subject) at the college he's dual enrolled at that gave him credit). 

I don’t know, but if there is a compact fashion to report these scores on the transcript, I would do it, particularly if you counted the CLEP subjects toward high school graduation.

[Farrar]

On 8/12/2024 at 7:26 PM, luuknam said:

Would I be correct in guessing that space also lets you report CLEP scores? 

And, would there be a point in reporting CLEP scores on a transcript when they're already on the kid's college transcript (but they don't show the actual scores there, just credit for them)? My oldest so far has a 71, a 75, and a 79, iirc (20-80 scale, passing scores were 54-55 (depending on the subject) at the college he's dual enrolled at that gave him credit). 

No. Because admissions doesn't usually care about CLEP.

If you really want them to see it, put that on your course descriptions. But for many schools, that will be meaningless. I've talked to admissions counselors at schools who said "what is that?" when I asked about CLEP.

[Farrar]

58 minutes ago, lewelma said:

That is so interesting Farrar. I had so many homemade courses that I gave my son As in (like 20) that I wanted to prove that they were reasonable. So I had an entire section on scores with 1580 and a bunch of 800s and equivalent of 5 on APs. Kind of like "if you question my grading, check out scores in other classes, then you will shut up". I wanted it all on one sheet of paper so they could see the big picture and not question the mommy grades.

 

But they will see all that. It's still reported and it's still in the packet of information. It's just reported by the student.

[Farrar]

4 hours ago, regentrude said:

It will be eventually in the "materials" tab, once the student has submitted their final college transcript for DE, but that won't be available at first-year registration which happens during spring of their senior year.

There's a place in the portal where students can self-report their DE, sometimes (yay!) with college and course number so I can look up equivalencies, sometimes vaguely or not at all. They self-report their APs but some don't list any scores, and it's often unclear which have been completed and which are planned (they won't have the official score report sent until later because the senior year APs aren't until May and scores not in until July). If I'm lucky, there's a Common App where I can look whether they listed AP scores they already have.

Not only do we need this for enrollment,  but also for departmental merit scholarships, which were much easier to figure out when ACT/SAT was mandatory - now it's a "holistic" evaluation of everything. 

Once upon a time, there was staff in the admissions office who would pull and compile all that info for us in a nice folder for each student. Now that, too, has become  a task faculty advisors are expected to do. Because it saves the school money if they don't have to hire staff; the professors will just deal with it.

Most of this just makes me angry for you that they keep putting more on professors.

In terms of the information, they MUST report college courses taken previously on the Common App. If they don't, that's a lie they've told on the application. The AP scores though - that's up to them. That's the whole point. If they don't want to report it, they don't have to. Though if they have a passing grade, it would usually be silly not to report it.

[lewelma]

29 minutes ago, Farrar said:

But they will see all that. It's still reported and it's still in the packet of information. It's just reported by the student.

What are the ramifications of reported by school vs reported by student? I don't understand why that dichotomy is important.  Obviously, in a homeschool they are the same thing, but we have to align to expectations which is why I'm curious about the dichotomy and how they view it.

[Roadrunner]

3 hours ago, lewelma said:

That is so interesting Farrar. I had so many homemade courses that I gave my son As in (like 20) that I wanted to prove that they were reasonable. So I had an entire section on scores with 1580 and a bunch of 800s and equivalent of 5 on APs. Kind of like "if you question my grading, check out scores in other classes, then you will shut up". I wanted it all on one sheet of paper so they could see the big picture and not question the mommy grades.

 

This is exactly the reasoning why I included my kid’s SAT and AP scores. Yes, a bunch of this was taught at home, but just glance over to a sea of 5s please. 

[Porridge]

12 hours ago, Roadrunner said:

This is exactly the reasoning why I included my kid’s SAT and AP scores. Yes, a bunch of this was taught at home, but just glance over to a sea of 5s please. 

That's what I was tentatively planning to do...

 

[Farrar]

15 hours ago, lewelma said:

What are the ramifications of reported by school vs reported by student? I don't understand why that dichotomy is important.  Obviously, in a homeschool they are the same thing, but we have to align to expectations which is why I'm curious about the dichotomy and how they view it.

It represents a change in how schools think about admissions. They want students to have more control over how they report information.

In the end, I don't think it's making any real difference for most homeschoolers. I'm just reporting current best practices. It's nice to have a transcript that reflects that. But even some public schools haven't shifted entirely yet. 

[madteaparty]

I did with DS and would absolutely do it again—his transcript was perfect I thought, format wise 🙂 

ETA that i had either an AP score or a college class for almost all the main subjects so the scores, where I had them were important to me to validate the transcript. 

Edited August 16 by madteaparty

[Malam]

On 8/15/2024 at 7:39 AM, lewelma said:

What are the ramifications of reported by school vs reported by student? I don't understand why that dichotomy is important.  Obviously, in a homeschool they are the same thing, but we have to align to expectations which is why I'm curious about the dichotomy and how they view it.

I imagine it would be quite upsetting for a student who was sick on exam day to have their 2 stuck next to their hard-earned A+ on their transcript. And a school doing that would be crossing many lines by doing so.

Beloit has an admissions counselor dedicated to homeschool applicants; anyone want to email him to ask his thoughts? https://www.beloit.edu/admission/apply/home-schooled-applicants/

Edited August 16 by Malam

[8filltheheart]

8 hours ago, Malam said:

I imagine it would be quite upsetting for a student who was sick on exam day to have their 2 stuck next to their hard-earned A+ on their transcript. And a school doing that would be crossing many lines by doing so.

Beloit has an admissions counselor dedicated to homeschool applicants; anyone want to email him to ask his thoughts? https://www.beloit.edu/admission/apply/home-schooled-applicants/

I'm going to buck the current trend and do what I have always done.  I really don't care what public and private schools do.  Considering that my school profile and course descriptions describe my students developing their courses with me, I doubt my putting scores on their transcript exudes school overreach and controlling the student.  I like my transcript format and have zero intention of changing it.  If a school rejects my student bc they don't like the scores on the transcript, we will happily walk away.

[Farrar]

14 hours ago, Malam said:

I imagine it would be quite upsetting for a student who was sick on exam day to have their 2 stuck next to their hard-earned A+ on their transcript. And a school doing that would be crossing many lines by doing so.

 

I literally just saw a transcript where something like this happened. 

I'm convinced some schools are out to destroy their students.

[EKS]

4 hours ago, Farrar said:

I literally just saw a transcript where something like this happened. 

I'm convinced some schools are out to destroy their students.

Yes.

I thought it was bad enough that my son's school required students to take the exams--because if a student chose not to submit their score, colleges could assume it was bad.  But actually putting it on the transcript is horrible.

[luuknam]

6 hours ago, EKS said:

I thought it was bad enough that my son's school required students to take the exams--because if a student chose not to submit their score, colleges could assume it was bad. 

Would a college care about the difference between a student who took an AP class but chose not to take the exam and a student who took the exam but chose not to report the score? I'd think both would likely cause the college to assume things are bad... 

At our local high schools the AP pass rate (score 3 or higher) for students who take an exam in 12th grade is 14%-ish (and 18% of local high school seniors take at least one AP exam - so the rounded percentage of all local high school seniors who pass an AP exam is 3%). Given what I've heard about grade inflation in the US, I'd be willing to bet that more than 14% of local students who take an AP class get an A in that class. I hope I'm wrong about that though (and yes, I get that there can be circumstances where a kid deserves an A but flunks the exam - but that shouldn't have a big impact on pass rates at the school level, especially given that some kids might get a B or worse and pass the exam). 

[EKS]

5 hours ago, luuknam said:

Would a college care about the difference between a student who took an AP class but chose not to take the exam and a student who took the exam but chose not to report the score? I'd think both would likely cause the college to assume things are bad... 

If the student did well in the class (at a well regarded high school), why would the college think things are bad?

I get your point about grade inflation, but if this was combined with tippy top SAT scores, I don't see the problem.

Preparing for an AP exam is not exactly the same thing as learning the material presented in an AP class.  Some students may want to learn the material but not be interested in taking the extra steps to ensure doing well on the exam.

ETA: One other thing... Quite a number (most?) AP courses are taken by high school seniors.  Because of this, their scores aren't available for consideration by colleges.  For this reason alone, I think we can believe colleges when they say they don't consider AP scores.  Well, that and the fact that not all high schools offer AP courses (including tippy top high schools).

Edited August 17 by EKS

[regentrude]

12 hours ago, EKS said:

I thought it was bad enough that my son's school required students to take the exams--because if a student chose not to submit their score, colleges could assume it was bad.  

How would the college know that the student took the exam?

[EKS]

3 minutes ago, regentrude said:

How would the college know that the student took the exam?

Because the school profile says that they require all students enrolled in AP courses to take the exam.  

Sorry, that is actually the thing I object to, the advertising it, not the requiring it in and of itself.

Edited August 17 by EKS

[regentrude]

Just a reminder that the AP scores matter for admission only at a very small number of extremely selective schools. Keep in mind that *most* colleges admit *most* students.

[regentrude]

Just now, EKS said:

Because the school profile says that they require all students enrolled in AP courses to take the exam.

Do the overworked admission workers really waste precious seconds on reading the school profile? Perhaps at  extremely selective schools.

[EKS]

Just now, regentrude said:

Do the overworked admission workers really waste precious seconds on reading the school profile?

I have no idea.  I just know that it is included with the admissions packet, so it's possible, and it means that choosing not to share scores has a somewhat different meaning.

[luuknam]

15 hours ago, EKS said:

If the student did well in the class (at a well regarded high school), why would the college think things are bad?

I get your point about grade inflation, but if this was combined with tippy top SAT scores, I don't see the problem.

Preparing for an AP exam is not exactly the same thing as learning the material presented in an AP class.  Some students may want to learn the material but not be interested in taking the extra steps to ensure doing well on the exam.

ETA: One other thing... Quite a number (most?) AP courses are taken by high school seniors.  Because of this, their scores aren't available for consideration by colleges.  For this reason alone, I think we can believe colleges when they say they don't consider AP scores.  Well, that and the fact that not all high schools offer AP courses (including tippy top high schools).

I suspect that AP classes taken during 9th-11th grade without a reported AP score would raise some eyebrows as to why no score (especially 9th-10th grade, since there'll have been an opportunity to take the test the next year if the kid happened to be ill on the test day). And doing well on the SAT is not the same as doing well on an AP exam. I'm also not sure how easy it would be to learn the material but somehow not be able to get at least a 3 on the exam, at least for public/private schooled students who are used to taking all sorts of tests.

Wrt the grade inflation I mentioned, I'd imagine most kids at our local high school don't get tippy-top scores on the SAT. Of course, a lot of colleges are test-optional these days, so I could imagine a bunch of kids applying to college without AP or SAT scores listed. Like I said, I don't work in admissions, but seeing lots of As in AP courses without AP test scores (and possibly without SAT etc test scores) would make me wonder how well the student really is doing, especially if they're from some random high school I haven't heard of (is tippy-top college going to have heard of the random high school in small town poor-educational-performance state? Probably not - so why would they trust those As without test scores, or even with good SAT scores? Because let's be real, if only 14% of people taking an AP exam at our local school pass the test, then odds are the AP class isn't really taught up to AP standards...). 

Of course, if a college explicitly says they don't consider AP test scores maybe they really don't. I was thinking of colleges that don't say that. 

[EKS]

7 hours ago, luuknam said:

And doing well on the SAT is not the same as doing well on an AP exam.

Yes, I realize that.  But it does let the reader know that the student is, at a minimum, both reasonably intelligent and handing in their assignments on time.  Without those scores, the only thing As definitively tell the reader is the latter.  Which is why I'm stunned that so many schools have gone test optional.

I just want to be clear that I'm not anti testing.  In fact, I'd prefer more testing, but that testing should be required of all students who apply and should be more like the old SAT subject tests.

[Dmmetler]

FWIW, when L first met with admissions at Agnes Scott (in fall 2019), the rep said that one reason why they were test optional was that most students had the scores unofficially on their transcripts anyway, and they'd found no difference between the official scores and the ones on the transcript and those who didn't submit scores, but fit the categories that they tend to recruit (which include talent search and PSAT, so, again, implied scores). So it wasn't test optional so much as "we're not going to make you pay to send scores when we already have them". Having said that, their admissions process also involves multiple essays and (at least for scholarships) interviews, plus placement tests. Which is something you can do when your first year class is about 250 kids, but less so when you might have that many in a single major. 

 

I will say that for M, I did go back and remove scores because the scores had been done without accommodations and were not reflective of their actual skills, but honestly, it probably wouldn't have mattered for the schools they were applying to, because they were usually right about at the mid-range of their score range. 

[luuknam]

2 hours ago, Dmmetler said:

(fall 2019) So it wasn't test optional so much as "we're not going to make you pay to send scores when we already have them".

Interesting. I wonder how that's going now, since during the pandemic a lot more schools went test optional due to students having more difficulties actually taking the tests and there having been reports of previous schools having gone test optional not experiencing problems. So, there are probably more students now who truly haven't taken the SAT and therefore don't have unofficial scores on their transcript.

[Farrar]

On 8/18/2024 at 12:16 PM, Dmmetler said:

FWIW, when L first met with admissions at Agnes Scott (in fall 2019), the rep said that one reason why they were test optional was that most students had the scores unofficially on their transcripts anyway, and they'd found no difference between the official scores and the ones on the transcript and those who didn't submit scores, but fit the categories that they tend to recruit (which include talent search and PSAT, so, again, implied scores). So it wasn't test optional so much as "we're not going to make you pay to send scores when we already have them". Having said that, their admissions process also involves multiple essays and (at least for scholarships) interviews, plus placement tests. Which is something you can do when your first year class is about 250 kids, but less so when you might have that many in a single major. 

 

I will say that for M, I did go back and remove scores because the scores had been done without accommodations and were not reflective of their actual skills, but honestly, it probably wouldn't have mattered for the schools they were applying to, because they were usually right about at the mid-range of their score range. 

This has definitely changed though. Many schools have taken them off at college request.

Plus, they don't have to require official score reports. Many schools allow self-reported in the Common App. And low income students can get a waiver to send as many as they want. If ASC is requiring students to send official scores for admissions, that's on them.

[8filltheheart]

On 8/18/2024 at 1:39 PM, luuknam said:

Interesting. I wonder how that's going now, since during the pandemic a lot more schools went test optional due to students having more difficulties actually taking the tests and there having been reports of previous schools having gone test optional not experiencing problems. So, there are probably more students now who truly haven't taken the SAT and therefore don't have unofficial scores on their transcript.

The trend amg top competitive Us is shifting away from test optional. Do a simple search and you'll find articles.

"Some schools have kept these changes in place, while others have shifted back toward requiring standardized testing. Notable schools that have reinstated the SAT/ACT include Brown, Dartmouth, Harvard, Yale, Georgetown, MIT, Caltech, and the entire public university systems of Florida and Georgia."

[madteaparty]

1 hour ago, 8filltheheart said:

The trend amg top competitive Us is shifting away from test optional. Do a simple search and you'll find articles.

"Some schools have kept these changes in place, while others have shifted back toward requiring standardized testing. Notable schools that have reinstated the SAT/ACT include Brown, Dartmouth, Harvard, Yale, Georgetown, MIT, Caltech, and the entire public university systems of Florida and Georgia."

Right, insomuch as highly selective schools were ever test optional (not the case in my world, and the lengths we went to to be able to take a test during that “test optional period” and the crowds at the schools that were kind enough to administer the test tells me we were not alone. 
ETA California excepted. But APs seem to matter there so 🤷‍♀️

Edited August 20 by madteaparty

[rbk mama]

On 8/13/2024 at 5:44 PM, Farrar said:

No. Absolutely not.

Schools and thus homeschoolers used to do this. It is no longer considered best practice. I have heard from multiple college admissions offices that they prefer scores not be on the transcript. Thus, don't, even if it used to be the thing. Even if your kid is applying with their proud scores.

It never occurred to me to make my transcript look like one from a regular highschool. Is this something people do? Honest question. I found a convenient format years ago that someone suggested that has a table showing classes by both grade year and subject, and I included a "Test Record" box with SAT/APs. I'm wondering if people are replicating transcript formats of regular schools and if that's something worth considering. Currently working on kid #3, and its been a bit since the last one.

Homeschooling has become more and more common, so I'm wondering - is there becoming a more standard "homeschool transcript" expectation?