Has anyone here ditched Memoria Press?

[sjwhit]

I have been back and forth for months now on which direction to go with our schooling. We have only ever used Memoria Press (aside from a few items from Abeka for phonics). For a while I had said I would hope to only ever use MP going forward, but now I'm not so sure. I appreciate their view that students should be disciplined, but I feel like it could be taken a little too far. I want my son to enjoy learning, and one of the things they're always on about is "learning isn't supposed to be fun" which I agree with to an extent, but still...... I think of the Charlotte Mason quote often about how at the end of a child's school years, it doesn't matter how much he knows but how much he cares. It seems their materials are just joy-sucking, to be honest. 

Anywho, I'm just curious if anyone here has switched FROM Memoria Press to another curriculum, for any of the same reasons I listed or for different reasons altogether. I can only ever seem to find posts of folks who switched TO them.

[HomeAgain]

We used First Form Latin.  It was rigorous and my son learned a lot, but it wasn't rewarding.  Learning should be satisfying, not satisfying checkbox requirements.  A child should be able to see a reason for their work within a flexible time frame.  I don't think work needs to be fun, exactly, but there should be some sort of feeling of accomplishment, understanding, and satisfaction.

We moved to a program that was more his style, Ecce Romani.  It was still rigorous, still hard work, but he could reap the benefits of that work as he went along.  Our experience with First Form made me see that MP could only be used sparingly in our house, and only when it was part of learning, not the entirety.

[LauraClark]

We also tried First Form and it was too much. Everything I've sampled of MP has looked very dry. We use Latin's Not so Tough.

[ScoutTN]

We always found their approach to be too rigid and workbooky and most of their materials to be dull, so never were an MP homeschool. I did use a few of their things as supplements, mostly science or history. 

[Brooke]

I only have experience with junior k and kindergarten so far but I definitely cannot use all of it. I do think at least for now that their literature is great and the guides are needed. In the future I think we will use their literature guides and maybe art. I think there’s much more out there for content etc. 

 

I, too don’t think all school should be fun but I also don’t think it should be a bummer either. I do love the hand holding it provides especially for a newbie like myself. I’ve really loved the enrichment guides. 

[8filltheheart]

Well, I never switched FROM them bc I would never use them to begin with.  I have been homeschooling since 1994 and have graduated 6 of our kids so far.  For me, the absolute best part of homeschooling is creating a homeschool that inspires my kids.  My kids have developed strong internal motivation that has lasted into adulthood.  But, our approach is the exact opposite of MP.  Our homeschool has a no workbook approach.    

[Clarita]

I never started because of the reasons you stated above. Honestly I never even thought about the student. I just didn't think I could teach material that I didn't find engaging. I do look at their curriculum to get ideas on books to read to my kids, because they have some really good book choices. 

I considered when I first started thinking about homeschooling (eldest was 4) so I looked into their preschool and kindergarten stuff. Since then I've been able to find or piece together stuff to be both engaging and rigorous. 

[Nichola]

We’ve used Latina Prima. It was okay, though somewhat dry and boring. We ditched the workbook pretty quickly but continued with the videos and flashcards. We’ve also used Minimus and University of Dallas’s Latin Through Stories, and we found both of those to be far more enjoyable. I think we’ve retained the most with Latin Through Stories. It uses songs and stories but no workbook. (Edited for accuracy: Latin Through Stories does have an optional workbook for older kids, but we haven’t used it yet.)

I bought some used MP literature guides a couple of years ago, thinking they might be helpful for vocabulary, etc. But I found them to be exactly as you described: joy-sucking. I don’t use any literature guides now—just read and narrate. I find that our discussions are better when we’re talking about something the kids have noticed on their own instead of trying to answer someone else’s scripted questions.

I do like to look at MP’s book lists though. The books they choose are typically well-written and engaging.

Edited February 16 by Nichola

[Lawyer&Mom]

Their book lists are just amazing.  I bought some of the complete sets when my kids were in Kindergarten during the lockdowns and we weren’t going to libraries or anything.  So many wonderful, wonderful books.  

[sjwhit]

15 hours ago, 8filltheheart said:

Well, I never switched FROM them bc I would never use them to begin with.  I have been homeschooling since 1994 and have graduated 6 of our kids so far.  For me, the absolute best part of homeschooling is creating a homeschool that inspires my kids.  My kids have developed strong internal motivation that has lasted into adulthood.  But, our approach is the exact opposite of MP.  Our homeschool has a no workbook approach.    

I would love to be able to chat with you more since you have so much experience, but since I'm new here I'm not allowed to send messages 😞

[sjwhit]

14 hours ago, Nichola said:

We’ve used Latina Prima. It was okay, though somewhat dry and boring. We ditched the workbook pretty quickly but continued with the videos and flashcards. We’ve also used Minimus and University of Dallas’s Latin Through Stories, and we found both of those to be far more enjoyable. I think we’ve retained the most with Latin Through Stories. It uses songs and stories but no workbook.

I bought some used MP literature guides a couple of years ago, thinking they might be helpful for vocabulary, etc. But I found them to be exactly as you described: joy-sucking. I don’t use any literature guides now—just read and narrate. I find that our discussions are better when we’re talking about something the kids have noticed on their own instead of trying to answer someone else’s scripted questions.

I do like to look at MP’s book lists though. The books they choose are typically well-written and engaging.

I really love the idea of narration, I'm hoping to implement that, too.

[Nichola]

1 hour ago, sjwhit said:

I really love the idea of narration, I'm hoping to implement that, too.

If you’re interested in narration, I highly recommend Karen Glass’s book Know and Tell. I think there are a lot of misconceptions about narration, and this book explains the process of narration as CM intended it, along with appropriate expectations for different age groups.

[AnneGG]

I’ve switched from them but my kids were young. We held on to the K-2 enrichment and Bible for a while but eventually I dropped that too.  
 

I am using their preschool again and I do like it. I will not be doing their jr.k again. 

 

[ScoutTN]

4 hours ago, Nichola said:

If you’re interested in narration, I highly recommend Karen Glass’s book Know and Tell. I think there are a lot of misconceptions about narration, and this book explains the process of narration as CM intended it, along with appropriate expectations for different age groups.

Yes, this.

[Lori D.]

7 hours ago, sjwhit said:

I would love to be able to chat with you more since you have so much experience, but since I'm new here I'm not allowed to send messages...

Post a new thread with your questions or with the topic you want to chat about, and use the @__[insert poster name]__ feature in the thread to alert a specific board participant that you are hoping to hear from that person. But, you'll also get the benefit of others who have many years of experience in homeschooling as well, from many different perspectives. 😄 

Also, welcome!

Edited February 16 by Lori D.

[Classically Minded]

We have used and currently use their Latin, Greek, Bible, cursive and going to try their book guides this coming school year.  Both of my kids love(d) MP curriculum, so I haven't experienced any bad feedback from them.

[Green Bean]

nm.

 

Edited June 12 by Green Bean

[Nichola]

On 2/18/2024 at 1:20 PM, Green Bean said:

One majorly important fact to remember about MP is that it is written for classroom teachers who teach the same subject/grade each year. The guides are SPINES that the "master teachers" use to add onto and flesh out. They were never intended to be just the guides/lesson plans. I think we homeschoolers forget this about a lot of companies. We are NOT their main market. We are a happy side market. 

 

I think this is a good point, although I’ve never seen it mentioned in the Memoria Press materials we’ve used. What are the classroom teachers adding to the lessons? Are the extras recommended by MP, or are the teachers coming up with them on their own?

 

On 2/18/2024 at 1:20 PM, Green Bean said:

In answer to "joy sucking" materials: A story I like from an MP mom is her daughter turned her nose up at "fun" materials for skills because she said the joy was in knowing the answers.

 

Perhaps I’m missing some context—maybe the “fun” materials were inferior because they had poor-quality content and the girl was doing well to recognize that—but minus that sort of detail, I don’t view this story as illustrating a positive attribute in a child. Rather, it reminds me of Eustace Scrubb in the Narnia books. 

 

On 2/18/2024 at 1:20 PM, Green Bean said:

I think it also comes down to what you want to your kids to know when their education is done. Are you sold on the whole Latin or die thing? Do you want a narrow or more broad coverage of world history? What is it you want your kids to really KNOW at the end? That is where you put your time and focus- joy sucking or not.

I think it might be helpful to define “joy-sucking.” What I mean by that is material that focuses primarily on facts without room for creativity or imagination. An example would be a math book that focuses only on procedural learning, algorithms and memorization, without room for playing with concepts. All of the problems in each lesson are worked exactly the same way. It’s math without the beauty. Another example would be a grammar curriculum that only provides stilted sentences as exercises for students, and never shows the complex language that would be seen in a well-written book. I think it’s fine to use a more “stilted” sentence as an introduction to the concept, but when all of the exercises in the lesson are simply variations on that same sentence, where is the beauty of language? 

Personally I do not think the final question comes down to what a child knows at the end, but to how much they care about what they know. Yes, hard work and memorization are important aspects of education, but what do those matter if the child has never had her imagination captured by any of it? Please don’t misconstrue what I’m saying—I understand that test scores and challenging classes can be important for getting into college and finding employment. But if those things, in and of themselves, are the ultimate end-goal, what kind of adult will that produce? Charles Dickens explores this idea in his book Hard Times.

Does every single aspect of a child’s education have to be joyous and imaginative? Of course not. That would be impossible. But should we try to introduce them to beauty where we can? I think it’s a worthy goal. My concern with “joy-sucking” materials is that if a child only sees those sorts of “facts without beauty” lessons for a single subject, year after year, they will never develop an enjoyment or appreciation for that subject. I think this could be why many adults dislike math and grammar—they were only taught the facts about them and were never introduced to their playful or creative sides. 

 

Edited February 29 by Nichola

[8filltheheart]

@Nichola I really like your post, especially your Hard Times reference.  What is a horse?  It exemplifies modern workbook pedagogy precisely.  

It is also helpful to understand that on forums that posters have different educational objectives and outcomes.  When you have been on the forums as long as I have, you recognize the different methodological practices of various posters and the relative levels of their children.  It helps you be able to clarify perspectives and whether the perspective would benefit you and deserve deeper reflection.  It sounds like you have clearly defined your priorities and goals.  Good for you!

Edited February 19 by 8filltheheart

[Nancy Ann]

It really depends on the child and the mom who is teaching.  But I love the preschool program and Jr K and K curriculum. It has a nice mixture of book work but also great literature and the Enrichment is very much like Five in a Row which I am a huge fan of for the younger years. 

For the elementary and middle school MP works great if your kids like workbooks and reading and answering questions in a traditional school manner. This is not bad at all, but just what works for you. I do think the questions are very good and the workbooks are straightforward . My daughter and I did two years of MP, the 4th and 5th grade materials I believe. We really learned a lot. I didn't always use the workbooks as is. I found it enjoyable to teach. I like the extra books for teaching American History. 

I think the Latin program is the best. I tried teaching Latin with other programs and this is the only one that really worked for me to be able to teach. 

I don't like the high school. For me it has too much Shakespeare and I don't like the textbooks for history. I think the literature studies are boring. So the approach just doesn't work for me in the older grades. 7th grade is where it starts to lose it for me. It becomes too hard and boring. I am not interested and my kids are not interested in that deep of classical education regarding Henle Latin, Shakespeare, spending an entire year reading Divine Comedy. It is just too much in my opinion. It just wasn't the direction for our family. I needed a more variety of books. 

I have been homeschooling for 20 years and for years I kept trying to entertain my kids with school and trying to find stuff that  inspires them and all of that. I read tons of books, I read all the time, my husband reads all the time and my kids don't. They love stories and like to be read to but they don't read on their own much. So for me I exhausted myself comparing myself to other homeschool families who seemed to be able to inspire their kids and had all these great experiences.  I  was never able to accomplish that. My kids were never going to love school more than playing with toys or stuff like that. I had to adjust my expectations and find a balance between school being a good experience or being a bummer.  So after awhile my approach to school was about filling their heads with good things.  My focus was on family and being together and our relationships and also on Christ. So I picked curriculum that they did well with, they could learn from and that I could implement and teach to them. We have used alot of Sonlight over the years, that was probably our main curriculum for history, literature and they have wonderful science!! Math U See for math, Writing Rhetoric for writing but now my daughter is IEW for writing.  Most homeschoolers are eclectic and while it's nice to find a spot and just want to sink in to a method of homeschool or a certain curriculum, realistically most people use a variety of things. Focus on what works for your family. 

I have tried off and on over the years to do more Charlotte Mason stuff but I found it was to overwhelming for me and my kids. I think we need less with more focus, the Feast is a beautiful idea that did not work in our family.  However, Simply Charlotte Mason website has wonderful Picture Studies that I use and also has a book on Narration that is quite useful. 

Edited February 19 by Nancy Ann

[chiguirre]

MPOA's online classes don't strictly follow their materials, particularly for literature. My dd did their whole high school program and liked some classes, hated some classes and found some classes just okay. Much like any other high school. I wouldn't recommend using the whole curriculum from PK to 12 without any other materials. It would get so monotonous, but there are pieces that are very good depending on your student's tastes and your teaching style. 

I personally think Henle is the best Latin program for high school. Dd took some classes that used Wheelock and Latin Alive and was very happy to go back to Henle. The Caesar and Cicero years include a lot of reading with supporting grammar instruction which is an excellent blend. I thought the Classical Composition materials were a bit weird, but dd liked them and is a strong writer. She got high As in both her required college comp classes and passed the Technical Writing DSST test for college credit with minimal prep, so they did work for her. 

I'm currently using the literature guides to afterschool my nephew. They serve their purpose admirably since I need them to introduce vocabulary and give me a list of reading comprehension questions so he can practice writing response sentences. They're much better than regular readers and workbooks. OTOH, I didn't even try their grammar memorization because both dn and I prefer written work. Instead, I use the even drier Climbing to Good English. They're black and white and look like they were written on a typewriter circa 1950, but they are hands down the best English grammar I've found. They're sort of like Warriner's Grammar and Composition for elementary students in a workbook format. I'm not averse to dry materials, but there is a limit to how much dryness anyone can tolerate. It's important to balance out the workbooks with interesting content in other subjects, especially history and science. Those aren't areas where MP shines. 

[ScoutTN]

I prefer CLRC and Oxford for Latin. Henle is dull and didn’t match up well with the AP syllabus for kids who will go that far. 

[Ting Tang]

It was hard to do all the things, but sometimes I regret getting off their path.  I need someone planned for me as it turns out.  This has been a disaster.  But I am not sure I could actually implement it again.  😞

[Shraddha]

We used Memoria Press exclusively for three years (Jr. K, K and 1st) and mostly MP for our fourth year (2nd). We will be moving away from MP for 3rd, minus a few subjects, for the following reasons:

1) There is a ton of writing. So much that it seems unnecessarily time consuming.

2) As a homeschooling parent who also works outside the home, and as a family who thrives having a co-op day once a week, it is very difficult to schedule the amount of work MP requires, even into a full calendar year. Many of their subjects are also teacher-intensive and not as independent as we need, since I'm not always around to teach. Some parents outsource to the online academy or cottage schools, but we do not.

3) It is important for us to do non skill based subjects, such as history , science, and Bible, as a family, but MP separates these subjects by grade. Sure, it's possible to figure out how to use MP materials for the whole family, but why go through the trouble when there are other curricula made use with multiple ages?

That being said, I thought Jr K through 1st grade were wonderful. My children have a strong foundation in reading and phonics thanks to MP. Their literature selections, especially in the younger grades, are fantastic. Their customer service is also superb. I think MP gets to be a bit much around 3rd. We just can't dedicate the amount of time needed to get it all done. Kids who are educated with MP materials have an incredible education, but it costs a lot of time and effort, as well as some sanity. We prioritize a great education, but we also prioritize rest, and time together as a family. Nobody who uses MP does "all the things," but it's very stressful to figure out what to cut and how to adjust.

So, we've benefitted from what we've used, but it's just too much after a while. I have much more peace using materials that actually get done.

[Ting Tang]

On 4/8/2024 at 5:07 PM, Shraddha said:

We used Memoria Press exclusively for three years (Jr. K, K and 1st) and mostly MP for our fourth year (2nd). We will be moving away from MP for 3rd, minus a few subjects, for the following reasons:

1) There is a ton of writing. So much that it seems unnecessarily time consuming.

2) As a homeschooling parent who also works outside the home, and as a family who thrives having a co-op day once a week, it is very difficult to schedule the amount of work MP requires, even into a full calendar year. Many of their subjects are also teacher-intensive and not as independent as we need, since I'm not always around to teach. Some parents outsource to the online academy or cottage schools, but we do not.

3) It is important for us to do non skill based subjects, such as history , science, and Bible, as a family, but MP separates these subjects by grade. Sure, it's possible to figure out how to use MP materials for the whole family, but why go through the trouble when there are other curricula made use with multiple ages?

That being said, I thought Jr K through 1st grade were wonderful. My children have a strong foundation in reading and phonics thanks to MP. Their literature selections, especially in the younger grades, are fantastic. Their customer service is also superb. I think MP gets to be a bit much around 3rd. We just can't dedicate the amount of time needed to get it all done. Kids who are educated with MP materials have an incredible education, but it costs a lot of time and effort, as well as some sanity. We prioritize a great education, but we also prioritize rest, and time together as a family. Nobody who uses MP does "all the things," but it's very stressful to figure out what to cut and how to adjust.

So, we've benefitted from what we've used, but it's just too much after a while. I have much more peace using materials that actually get done.

I cannot even imagine doing 4 separate complete MP curriculums as I have four children--but what bothers me is I think each child could handle it; I just can't teach it, and then I feel like a failure.  I do think the education one can receive can be outstanding, but this year I took a more eclectic approach and have felt as though we were not doing enough.  And I have still felt overwhelmed and unhappy.  I do want to stay the classical course somewhat, so I am trying to figure out what to do! I guess this is why online education exists.  I wish there were more streaming videos for all subjects; it is hard to commit to a specific time and day---might as well go to a regular school! 

[Shraddha]

On 4/10/2024 at 4:08 PM, Ting Tang said:

I cannot even imagine doing 4 separate complete MP curriculums as I have four children--but what bothers me is I think each child could handle it; I just can't teach it, and then I feel like a failure.  I do think the education one can receive can be outstanding, but this year I took a more eclectic approach and have felt as though we were not doing enough.  And I have still felt overwhelmed and unhappy.  I do want to stay the classical course somewhat, so I am trying to figure out what to do! I guess this is why online education exists.  I wish there were more streaming videos for all subjects; it is hard to commit to a specific time and day---might as well go to a regular school! 

Have you read Teaching from Rest? It might help to ease some of your anxieties. I try to remember that most of their learning will actually be after they leave my care. I'm simply equipping them with the skills they need to teach themselves and pursue their interests and calling. There is no one on earth who has had a perfect education without gaps, so I shouldn't pressure myself to do the impossible. 

I also try to remember that Memoria Press is written for a brick and mortar school and offered to homeschoolers. It's taught by teachers who probably teach one subject full time. An expert Latin teacher, an expert math teacher, etc. We shouldn't expect ourselves to do all their jobs at once. And if I really wanted my children to have such teachers, I'd send them to school. But I don't. In fact, even if I lived down the street from the top school in the nation, I wouldn't send them. Why? Because God gave children to parents to raise, not teachers (though I respect those who choose to, or must, outsource academic education to a school). And if God gave me this job, he's going to equip me. It's impossible outside his grace though, which I think is exactly the point he's trying to make.

Sorry it took me forever to see this reply. I might have to update my email notification settings.

[seemesew]

On 2/15/2024 at 4:40 PM, 8filltheheart said:

Well, I never switched FROM them bc I would never use them to begin with.  I have been homeschooling since 1994 and have graduated 6 of our kids so far.  For me, the absolute best part of homeschooling is creating a homeschool that inspires my kids.  My kids have developed strong internal motivation that has lasted into adulthood.  But, our approach is the exact opposite of MP.  Our homeschool has a no workbook approach.    

I need you to write a book or blog with pictures and details of what you do! 

[MagistraKennedy]

My oldest just graduated, and we used MP as our core from Kindergarten. 

When we started, I needed a boxed curriculum. I didn't want to have to pick and choose, lesson plan, etc. Thus, MP worked beautifully for us. 
As I added more kids to the mix, we shifted our approach, still using MP, but not every single thing on the list. 

I've been very happy with it, but we bend and flex it to fit our needs. 

[Porridge]

On 5/9/2024 at 5:39 PM, seemesew said:

I need you to write a book or blog with pictures and details of what you do! 

@8filltheheart has a book called Homeschooling at the Helm. I don’t know if it is still available? It was very helpful for me as a perspective on how to design courses tailored to my children’s interests. @8 is the book still available?