Any opinions on Harvey Mudd? Any other West Coast small stem-focused college?

[SanDiegoMom]

I searched back in the hive to see if Harvey Mudd was mentioned at all, and hadn't seen anything.  Does anyone have experience or knowledge about it? Specifically, my son is very mathy, has great grades and test scores, but isn't really in the running for the tippy top schools.  He isn't sure what he wants to do, though right now he says major in math for undergrad and then somehow working in the field of nuclear energy.  Though before that it was topology, and either way he plans to go to grad school.  

We are down in San Diego, and he doesn't really want to (and probably shouldn't) go too far.  So east coast is out, and even Colorado or Washington State or Oregon would be out.  I feel like we are really limited to the UC's again (which would be great if he gets in, though the sink or swim wouldn't be ideal for this kid).  He is applying to Caltech and Stanford just for kicks bc they are in CA, but knows he won't get in. 

[idnib]

I know some about it; we looked at it and visited for DS and I grew up nearby and spent a fair amount of time at the Claremont Colleges. I don't know if that's enough to help, but it's not very big so it can be hard to get info.

It's a great school, I think for a specific type of focused person. I agree it wouldn't be tippy top, but I think it's pretty close. The students are friendly and engaged.

Claremont is a better place to live that when I was young, mostly because they've built the Metrolink so it doesn't feel as isolated. It's a nice place but there's not much to do outside of Claremont in the immediate area.

The campus is small and I think somewhat depressing, but the rest of the consortium has more attractive spaces to spend time in. If you visit and go see Pomona, Scripps, CMC, etc you'll see what I mean.

Another one to think about if he's willing to go far enough would be Cal Poly SLO. Maybe USC?

[Frances]

I know two people who attended,met there, and married. Both loved it and went on to top grad and medical schools. This was almost 30 years ago though. Both were definitely very science focused with side interests in the arts and struggled socially prior to college.

[gstharr]

Harvey Mudd is one of a handful of colleges collectible known as the Claremont Colleges. All volleges are considered excellent.  Pomona college is the star of this cluster. About as difficult to get  into as  a  mid ivy.  The town of Claremint has a college buzz with so many  colleges in it.   But be warned,, summers are brutally hot and smoggy. Down the road there is cal poly pomona. . A very good stem  school, with easier acceptance rhan SLO.

[SanDiegoMom]

I feel like we are so behind in making the school list, much less them (twins!)  actually working on applications.  Time is skipping away so fast. 

[EKS]

Caltech and Cal Poly SLO.  I don't know anything about Cal Poly Pomona.

Students at Occidental are allowed to take classes at Caltech, at least they were last time I checked.

UCSB's College of Creative Studies has a math major.

[rzberrymom]

I wouldn’t discount the UCs. DD started at UCLA over the summer and nothing feels sink-or-swim so far. The pre-med students are intense and competitive, but I think that can be true at any university. I think Caltech or Stanford would be WAY more sink or swim than anything I’ve seen so far.

The only hard part is staying on top of bureaucratic deadlines (registration, housing) since there’s not a lot of hand holding. But that has felt worth it to me since the price is low and the resources are absolutely tremendous, especially for a kid who eventually wants to go to grad school. (there’s also a pretty widely available middle-class scholarship)

 

[rzberrymom]

Definitely check out the College of Creative Studies at UCSB, especially for math. @Roadrunner knows way more about it.

[Roadrunner]

I don’t know much about Harvey Mudd other than they have extensive general education requirements, so that leaves not a lot of flexibility in course selection. They have a super ugly campus, which for us was an instant no, and they have way too many boys applying, also making competition much tougher for boys. Otherwise it’s an amazing program from what I have heard.

I honestly think CCS math program is a dream come true. Amazing advisor who cares for students and takes them out for lunch. Small core classes designed for advanced kids with problem sets any math kid would love (hours to ponder a problem I was told), kids who have background from various math circles, research from the start, ability to take grad classes as a freshman if you wish. I mean for a kid dedicated for math, I could not think of a better place. The advisor really hand picks the kids (so a faculty gets to decide who to admit). There is a separate app with essays that are relevant for the course of study. Only for math. Other CC programs only ask for recommendations I think. As you can tell, that was the hardest program to decline for my boy. I still think it would have been a better place for my kid. 
Their CCS physics advisor is also ❤️. He is one of the coaches for US physics Olympiad team.

That place is a gem. 

[daijobu]

I'm glad @Roadrunner mentioned the ugly campus, because I have to agree, though some of the academic buildings are nicer and newer.

I think it's a great school, and nice to be a small techie campus.  One caution if you have a future engineering major.  They offer a major in Engineering, but that always seemed odd to me.  Electrical engineering to my mind is a very different field from mechanical engineering and so on.  I'm not even sure what plain vanilla "engineering" actually means. 

But it can't be that bad because a google search reveals is to be the most popular major on campus, so what do I know?    

[Laurel-in-CA]

My brother attended Harvey Mudd back in the day. There was one building shaped like a rectangle with an oval attacked in the middle of one side...they called it the toilet bowl. LOL

BTW, he got a BS in Physics and a great education. Students at one of the Claremont colleges (there are 5) can take classes at the other four. Claremont is at the foot of the mountains.

Cal Poly Pomona is an engineering school, not too far from Claremont, their classes tend to be very hands-on--machine shop and small foundry on campus when we had a tour. (I have a friend who taught industrial engineering there.)

[kirstenhill]

18 hours ago, Roadrunner said:

I don’t know much about Harvey Mudd other than they have extensive general education requirements, so that leaves not a lot of flexibility in course selection. They have a super ugly campus, which for us was an instant no, and they have way too many boys applying, also making competition much tougher for boys. Otherwise it’s an amazing program from what I have heard.

I honestly think CCS math program is a dream come true. Amazing advisor who cares for students and takes them out for lunch. Small core classes designed for advanced kids with problem sets any math kid would love (hours to ponder a problem I was told), kids who have background from various math circles, research from the start, ability to take grad classes as a freshman if you wish. I mean for a kid dedicated for math, I could not think of a better place. The advisor really hand picks the kids (so a faculty gets to decide who to admit). There is a separate app with essays that are relevant for the course of study. Only for math. Other CC programs only ask for recommendations I think. As you can tell, that was the hardest program to decline for my boy. I still think it would have been a better place for my kid. 
Their CCS physics advisor is also ❤️. He is one of the coaches for US physics Olympiad team.

That place is a gem. 

I just looked up that CCS program in math...sounds so amazing.  I know my DS16 would love it, but it would probably be a long shot for him to be accepted for sure (not to mention affording it!).  He has already said he thinks CA is a bit too far from home for him.  Makes me wonder if any other schools have anything similar!

[SanDiegoMom]

On 9/29/2023 at 10:08 AM, rzberrymom said:

I wouldn’t discount the UCs. DD started at UCLA over the summer and nothing feels sink-or-swim so far. The pre-med students are intense and competitive, but I think that can be true at any university. I think Caltech or Stanford would be WAY more sink or swim than anything I’ve seen so far.

The only hard part is staying on top of bureaucratic deadlines (registration, housing) since there’s not a lot of hand holding. But that has felt worth it to me since the price is low and the resources are absolutely tremendous, especially for a kid who eventually wants to go to grad school. (there’s also a pretty widely available middle-class scholarship)

 

My oldest went to UcLA and doesn’t regret it at all, was usually able to get all her classes,  got involved in the Daily Bruin, but certain things she definitely felt were challenging. The noise level of having so many students on campus, having two other roommates and never having personal space, and having very little in the way of advising.  It and UCSB are definitely his top choices, cost wise. 

On 9/29/2023 at 10:32 AM, rzberrymom said:

Definitely check out the College of Creative Studies at UCSB, especially for math. @Roadrunner knows way more about it.

I forgot about CCS for some reason. My daughter thought about applying there for literature, but didn’t feel like it was worth it. But it was clear the Math and some of the other stem majors were much stronger.  I will have to remind my ds about it, especially since that’s a supplemental application😂

23 hours ago, Roadrunner said:

I don’t know much about Harvey Mudd other than they have extensive general education requirements, so that leaves not a lot of flexibility in course selection. They have a super ugly campus, which for us was an instant no, and they have way too many boys applying, also making competition much tougher for boys. Otherwise it’s an amazing program from what I have heard.

I honestly think CCS math program is a dream come true. Amazing advisor who cares for students and takes them out for lunch. Small core classes designed for advanced kids with problem sets any math kid would love (hours to ponder a problem I was told), kids who have background from various math circles, research from the start, ability to take grad classes as a freshman if you wish. I mean for a kid dedicated for math, I could not think of a better place. The advisor really hand picks the kids (so a faculty gets to decide who to admit). There is a separate app with essays that are relevant for the course of study. Only for math. Other CC programs only ask for recommendations I think. As you can tell, that was the hardest program to decline for my boy. I still think it would have been a better place for my kid. 
Their CCS physics advisor is also ❤️. He is one of the coaches for US physics Olympiad team.

That place is a gem. 

This does sound wonderful! And he loved the campus, which was unusual for him. Usually he doesn’t really notice his surroundings 😛

[rzberrymom]

5 hours ago, SanDiegoMom said:

My oldest went to UcLA and doesn’t regret it at all, was usually able to get all her classes,  got involved in the Daily Bruin, but certain things she definitely felt were challenging. The noise level of having so many students on campus, having two other roommates and never having personal space, and having very little in the way of advising.  

Ahhh, that makes sense. It definitely seems pretty darn crowded! ☹️

[Drama Llama]

What about Santa Clara for a match?  I don’t know how they are for math, but I hear engineering is strong and they give good merit aid.

This is all from one person, so it’s possible it’s just their personal experience.

[Clarita]

I wish we (my parents and I) had been brave enough to apply for Harvey Mudd. My parents were too nervous about the cost of a "private" school. So I only applied to UCs.

On 9/28/2023 at 6:49 PM, SanDiegoMom said:

I feel like we are really limited to the UC's again (which would be great if he gets in, though the sink or swim wouldn't be ideal for this kid). 

I went to UCSB and I loved it there. I know the application process feels very sink or swim and they have weeder classes, but I felt very supported there. I convinced my parents to let me go there because they had a program that guaranteed students in the college of Engineering would be able to graduate in 4 years if they followed a plan and passed all their classes. You aren't paired with a professor or anything but they make it very clear what classes you needed to take and in what sequence to graduate. Also in nearly all of my classes teamwork is encouraged.  Professors would encourage and allow working together for homework and in a few classes even on the test. There was even on class (400 student class) where the professor set up one of his office hours as a work together on homework. It was a lunch time thing where he let us bring all our lunches to a conference room and we all just went there to do our homework for that class. If a bunch of us were stuck on a problem he would show us how to work through that particular problem. 

I know a fair number of people who went to UCs who were pretty happy with their education. There are a few threads and comments around these boards that make UCs sound like something awful and scary, but you know those are our state flagships. I'm sure more likely than not my own children would apply to a few of them and not a huge stretch that they would go to one. 

[Karen A]

My daughter is a sophomore at Harvey Mudd, studying physics, though because their core is the first 1.5 years, she hasn't actually taken any specialized major classes yet (though core has 2.5 semesters physics, I think?). She would say she loves the people there, but is struggling with the workload this semester.  I really feel like they have a diverse and interesting student body. Since it's undergrad only, many sophomores and some freshman already start working in labs. They have an amazing Makerspace that any engineer would love. I'm sure she would answer specific questions or take time to meet with your son if he visited.

[SanDiegoMom]

15 hours ago, Karen A said:

My daughter is a sophomore at Harvey Mudd, studying physics, though because their core is the first 1.5 years, she hasn't actually taken any specialized major classes yet (though core has 2.5 semesters physics, I think?). She would say she loves the people there, but is struggling with the workload this semester.  I really feel like they have a diverse and interesting student body. Since it's undergrad only, many sophomores and some freshman already start working in labs. They have an amazing Makerspace that any engineer would love. I'm sure she would answer specific questions or take time to meet with your son if he visited.

Thank you for this info! I will pass it on to my son and see if he would like to reach out.  The one snag is after making our list, THEN I ran the net price calculator.  Almost full pay is a tough sell compared to full ride due to Calvet Waiver and Chapter 35 benefits he would get at a state school.  So private colleges are dropping a lot lower on his list at this point.  But the draw of having opportunities to do research early is definitely something we were considering in looking at Harvey Mudd.   

[SanDiegoMom]

I wrote a little on the college application thread about our tour of Harvey Mudd that we took yesterday.  I'll copy and paste for anyone else interested: 

 

We did do a tour yesterday of Harvey Mudd. We are too late for interviews unfortunately, and while there is Early Decision 2, he's not going to do that as the tuition is so astronomical we would not want to be locked into that! Yikes.  But he will apply.  It was definitely SMALL.  QUIET.  The five campuses, while together made up a more normal size campus (with around 6600 students total), still felt slightly disconnected from each other with the side roads cutting through.  I myself would never have liked it.  But my son REALLY liked it.  The things he most connected with were the honor code (which was very much emphasized), and the collaboration/groupwork between students.  The tour took us through the academic classrooms so he saw all the labs and the makerspaces where kids were working.  And one of his favorite things was how QUIET it was. (of course it was Friday, so that might have been part of the reason it was so quiet)

It seemed to definitely be a school for a particular type of kid.  

The absolute funniest part of the whole tour yesterday? We were the ONLY ones.  So the assistant director of admissions gave the who spiel in a mid size auditorium to just us.  It was actually quite awful, because the whole time my son knew this was the person who would be reading the applications, that this was his chance to connect, and he instead he pretty much couldn't come up with any questions or even good answers to softball questions (like do you see any humanities fields on this list that you would be interested in studying for your humanities concentration?).  He was so nervous, he said he was just trying to do the "active listening" that he'd learned in AP psych -- triple nod and constant smiling.  Lol.  So basically we both just nodded and smiled the whole time. Except when he put the cost of tuition up.  Then I stopped smiling! 

So yeah, it was an interesting trip for sure!

[crazyforlatin]

Dd has at least 4 friends at Mudd and one who just applied as ED 1. We wouldn’t have been able to afford it but would have considered taking loans for Mudd. Not that it matters, and it could just be the people we know or meet, but not many people know about Mudd or for that matter many of the LACs. To be in debt for a school that doesn’t have the instant name recognition feels bad if I’m in debt. Dd is now at a UC because we can afford the tuition. And I think she likes it because it’s a campus that suits her personality.  But deep down I know that the consortium or any other suitable LAC would have been overall better for her. The debt would have been suffocating, but Dd would at the end probably have a better college experience at a small private liberal arts college.

[JennyD]

My DS looked very seriously at Mudd  -- it was his first choice for quite a while.  However, we live a  4-hr flight away and he gets airsick, so we ultimately ruled out all West Coast schools.  

A colleague's son went there and absolutely loved it.  It definitely has name recognition in academia, FWIW.  

[Frances]

2 hours ago, crazyforlatin said:

Dd has at least 4 friends at Mudd and one who just applied as ED 1. We wouldn’t have been able to afford it but would have considered taking loans for Mudd. Not that it matters, and it could just be the people we know or meet, but not many people know about Mudd or for that matter many of the LACs. To be in debt for a school that doesn’t have the instant name recognition feels bad if I’m in debt. Dd is now at a UC because we can afford the tuition. And I think she likes it because it’s a campus that suits her personality.  But deep down I know that the consortium or any other suitable LAC would have been overall better for her. The debt would have been suffocating, but Dd would at the end probably have a better college experience at a small private liberal arts college.

Small liberal arts colleges definitely have a great reputation in academia. When I was at any Ivy for grad school, every prof who found out I went to one for undergrad said that is exactly the type of school they wanted their own child to attend for undergrad.

[Clarita]

Harvey Mudd is definitely a known school for the majors that it caters to. It seems less well known only because they don't cover all the majors under the sun. 

The cost though is a reason I didn't get to consider that school. Instead I went to UC Santa Barbara which for their College of Engineering had the same collaborative spirit (instead of competitive).