Wilder podcast—a look back on all things Little House

[kbutton]

We’ve discussed Little House here many times, so I thought I would recommend this podcast. A Canadian woman examines the books, the TV show, etc. and discusses the good, bad, and ugly. It’s very interesting so far. 

[El...]

I've been enjoying this podcast, too! It's interesting to place the writing, not just the settings of the books, into context. 

[catz]

thanks, I can always use a new walking podcast.  Sounds great!

[Annie G]

Thanks for the recommendation!
Having trouble finding it…title? 

Edited August 11, 2023 by Annie G

[kbutton]

5 minutes ago, Annie G said:

Thanks for the recommendation!
Having trouble finding it…title? 

Wilder. That’s the whole name. It’s from iHeart and was advertised on Stuff You Missed in History, IIRC.

[kbutton]

38 minutes ago, El... said:

I've been enjoying this podcast, too! It's interesting to place the writing, not just the settings of the books, into context. 

I appreciate her tackling the Laura/Rose authorship aspect in the way that she does. 

[Kidlit]

Definitely adding to my list!

[Ottakee]

I added this as well

[Shoeless]

Thanks! I reread the entire Little House series every summer, (a tradition from when I spent summers with my grandmother). This will be a nice addition.

[Grace Hopper]

Gosh it’s been over a decade since I read any Little House books, even though I’ve read each half a dozen times. Maybe it’s time to reread, then listen to this podcast, thanks!

Of course they are on the shelf next to The Boxcar Children and Trixie Belden books so once I start down memory lane I might go for miles. 

[Mothersweets]

Thank you for posting this! 

Edited August 12, 2023 by Mothersweets

[Beth S]

FYI = The final (10th) podcast is an hour long interview with Melissa Gilbert.

https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1119-wilder-112847598/

[Ottakee]

I am listening to episode 3 now

[Kidlit]

I'm on episode 2.  It's very interesting. I went to graduate school for library science back in 2000 and I remember some of the discussion she brings up.  My family also made a trek to Mansfield, MO, in 2013 (& dh and I had been to DeSmet, SD, in 2003) so much of her experience and passion resonates. 

[KungFuPanda]

I’ll definitely put this podcast on my list. For a dose of nostalgia, here is the box set I got the Christmas I was in the 2nd grade. I’ve about loved them to death. 

[Kidlit]

3 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

I’ll definitely put this podcast on my list. For a dose of nostalgia, here is the box set I got the Christmas I was in the 2nd grade. I’ve about loved them to death. 

One of my best friends growing up had the blue slip covered set.  I had the yellow ones, though no slipcover that I recall. 

[Beth S]

8 hours ago, Kidlit said:

One of my best friends growing up had the blue slip covered set.  I had the yellow ones, though no slipcover that I recall. 

The yellow set . . . much loved!

[Kidlit]

I'm currently on the episode that compares the books to actual history.  Some of the things I did not know (I.e. specific details about the long winter), but I'm surprised that people think/thought that the books aren't fictionalized.  I've never viewed them that way--I think it was always in my mind that timelines were compressed, composite characters developed, etc.   

[kbutton]

I read my grandmother’s yellow set. 🙂

[Terabith]

I still have my yellow set, too!

[Danae]

12 hours ago, KungFuPanda said:

I’ll definitely put this podcast on my list. For a dose of nostalgia, here is the box set I got the Christmas I was in the 2nd grade. I’ve about loved them to death. 

I have that exact set, also from second grade.

[Kidlit]

This has inspired me to give the Pulitzer Prize-winning biography Prairie Fires: The American Dreams of Laura Ingalls Wilder another go. (I attempted it when it was first published but am now motivated.). Has anybody read it?

[Xahm]

1 hour ago, Kidlit said:

This has inspired me to give the Pulitzer Prize-winning biography Prairie Fires: The American Dreams of Laura Ingalls Wilder another go. (I attempted it when it was first published but am now motivated.). Has anybody read it?

I read it and really enjoyed it.

 

[Danae]

1 hour ago, Kidlit said:

This has inspired me to give the Pulitzer Prize-winning biography Prairie Fires: The American Dreams of Laura Ingalls Wilder another go. (I attempted it when it was first published but am now motivated.). Has anybody read it?

I think that’s the one I read.  If so, it was a good read.  

[Grace Hopper]

3 hours ago, Kidlit said:

This has inspired me to give the Pulitzer Prize-winning biography Prairie Fires: The American Dreams of Laura Ingalls Wilder another go. (I attempted it when it was first published but am now motivated.). Has anybody read it?

 

2 hours ago, Xahm said:

I read it and really enjoyed it.

 

Thanks for this recommendation, I just put it on the shelf in my library app. 
 

Here’s my set, not from my own childhood but a good 25 years old. 
 

[kbutton]

4 hours ago, Kidlit said:

This has inspired me to give the Pulitzer Prize-winning biography Prairie Fires: The American Dreams of Laura Ingalls Wilder another go. (I attempted it when it was first published but am now motivated.). Has anybody read it?

I read most of it. I think I read most in-depth and then skim read the rest, maybe due to time constraints, not sure.

I sometimes do better with that sort of thing as an audio book, even though I’m not all that great at learning by ear for most things. Strange quirk of mine!

[Beth S]

Adding that I found an annotated version of "Pioneer Girl" at a recent book sale.
       This is the pre-cursor to the Little House books.
And "Libertarians on the Prairie" (which I thought was mis-titled)  at the library. 
        This is a more detailed biography of Rose & Laura's later adult life.

I've also enjoyed Rose's pioneer books "Let the Hurricane Roar" and "Free Land".
        They are a bit more intense than Little House.
        The movie "Young Pioneers" (1976) is based on these books.     

Of course, I loved making my "The Office"-loving children guess who the female lead was!

 

[kbutton]

I can’t remember what the book is called, but there is a collection of writings by Laura for the rural magazine that featured her farm writing, and I think there are some articles from Rose’s early journalism career.

[KungFuPanda]

5 hours ago, Kidlit said:

This has inspired me to give the Pulitzer Prize-winning biography Prairie Fires: The American Dreams of Laura Ingalls Wilder another go. (I attempted it when it was first published but am now motivated.). Has anybody read it?

I read that and liked it. I own the annotated Pioneer Girl one, but haven’t made it through it. I also own the Little House Cookbook because the food descriptions were always so magical. I doubt I ever cooked anything from it. I just like having it. 😂

[fairfarmhand]

I read the blue set until they fell apart a few years ago and replaced the worst ones with thrifted ones in better shape.

one thing  I like about t hi s podcast is it’s clear the gal loves the little house books but she’s unflinching in examining them, good bad and ugly. 
 

ive got this book and one other that I can’t find with liw essays in it. They’re very practical for farming ladies.

[Kidlit]

Has any other listener had trouble with a few of the later episodes?  I'm listening on the Apple Podcast app and it's like a part of it is cut off and it goes back to earlier in the episode.  Anybody else?

[kbutton]

10 hours ago, Kidlit said:

Has any other listener had trouble with a few of the later episodes?  I'm listening on the Apple Podcast app and it's like a part of it is cut off and it goes back to earlier in the episode.  Anybody else?

I use Apple Podcasts and didn’t have an issue. I wonder if you delete and reload them if they will behave better.

[Ottakee]

I know this is a few weeks old but I just finished the last episode in the pod cast tonight.

i have mixed feelings.   I grew up loving Little house books and watched all the tv shows.   
 

it was interesting that Rose tried to add a lot of political stuff and the show had issues…..but in our conservative Christian community Little House was revered as the best and often only TV  kids could watch.

I feel like the podcast came down a bit too hard on Laura with her writing about the Indians and wanting an Indian baby, etc.    I am quarter Native American if that matters.   I see a small child in awe of something she has never seen before and repeating what the grown ups around her said.   Now, today I think it is good to openly discuss these attitudes and how we know they are wrong and that pa was wrong to squat on Indian land, etc.

I kinda find it like how the Bible commentary says tht some things are descriptive but NOT prescriptive…..meaning it is saying how things were….but not saying that is how they should be.

thoughts?

[kbutton]

1 hour ago, Ottakee said:

I see a small child in awe of something she has never seen before and repeating what the grown ups around her said.   Now, today I think it is good to openly discuss these attitudes and how we know they are wrong and that pa was wrong to squat on Indian land, etc.

I think your take is realistic. Kids also mention things to see how adults react—not necessarily in a pushing buttons way but to get feedback like they do when trying to learn anything.

 

[KungFuPanda]

I think they got weirdly hung up on that too. It’s not a moral failing for a four year old to ask for something weird. It would have been problematic if MA had asked, but a clueless little kid? It felt a little like they were signaling how socially aware they are. It was odd because I think they got the rest of it right. 

[Ottakee]

6 hours ago, KungFuPanda said:

I think they got weirdly hung up on that too. It’s not a moral failing for a four year old to ask for something weird. It would have been problematic if MA had asked, but a clueless little kid? It felt a little like they were signaling how socially aware they are. It was odd because I think they got the rest of it right. 

That makes sense.   And Ma likely was genuinely afraid of the Native Americans.  Think of what she had heard and been told.  She didn’t have the Internet to fact check, a diverse racial background, etc.     I am not saying her attitudes were correct or right, but you can see how a woman dragged across the country with few neighbors, no means of quick communication, etc would be afraid of people she had no understanding of and was repeatedly told they were savages.

[Lucy the Valiant]

On 8/15/2023 at 6:32 PM, kbutton said:

I can’t remember what the book is called, but there is a collection of writings by Laura for the rural magazine that featured her farm writing, and I think there are some articles from Rose’s early journalism career.

Little House in the Ozarks    Mine has a beautiful white dust cover. ❤️

[fairfarmhand]

9 hours ago, KungFuPanda said:

I think they got weirdly hung up on that too. It’s not a moral failing for a four year old to ask for something weird. It would have been problematic if MA had asked, but a clueless little kid? It felt a little like they were signaling how socially aware they are. It was odd because I think they got the rest of it right. 

Yeah I thought the same. I wondered if any of them had kids. Because little kids ask and think and say weird things. None of which are indicative of their attitude toward others. 

[KungFuPanda]

4 hours ago, fairfarmhand said:

Yeah I thought the same. I wondered if any of them had kids. Because little kids ask and think and say weird things. None of which are indicative of their attitude toward others. 

Ohhhh, I didn’t think of that. I wonder if they have no experience with little kids?  You spend 5 minutes in a preschool and you’re gonna hear some weird stuff. 

[El...]

I agree that kids say things that pop into their heads. The children's sermon at our church is a huge risk for our young pastor. 

However, the Little House books are often handed to young readers without any guidance or arbitration. 

As an adult, I read that and think, ok, the kid is seeing people who seem extremely different to her... and wants to be closer, perhaps? She finds them attractive. (Hmm, in an unequal way.) 

But also, that child's view of those native people, who were in reality going through extreme suffering, is of the "exotic." She thinks of their child as something to acquire, like a beautiful doll. That's Really Bad. I don't think a 7 or 8yo reader would necessarily grasp that second bit of dehumanizing horror. They don't have the knowledge. Sure, Pa corrects her... up to a point. But do kids know she's witnessing genocide? No.

[ktgrok]

19 hours ago, Ottakee said:

 

I feel like the podcast came down a bit too hard on Laura with her writing about the Indians and wanting an Indian baby, etc.    I am quarter Native American if that matters.   I see a small child in awe of something she has never seen before and repeating what the grown ups around her said.   Now, today I think it is good to openly discuss these attitudes and how we know they are wrong and that pa was wrong to squat on Indian land, etc.

I kinda find it like how the Bible commentary says tht some things are descriptive but NOT prescriptive…..meaning it is saying how things were….but not saying that is how they should be.

thoughts?

Agree, but especially after hearing on the podcast that Laura was actually only 3 yrs old about when they were in "Indian Territory". So a preschooler, and from what I remember none of them had slept in like a week or something due to the sound of the drums. So overtired overstimulated 3 yr old basically having a nonsensical tantrum. Makes total sense when you look at it with that info. 

49 minutes ago, El... said:

I agree that kids say things that pop into their heads. The children's sermon at our church is a huge risk for our young pastor. 

However, the Little House books are often handed to young readers without any guidance or arbitration. 

As an adult, I read that and think, ok, the kid is seeing people who seem extremely different to her... and wants to be closer, perhaps? She finds them attractive. (Hmm, in an unequal way.) 

But also, that child's view of those native people, who were in reality going through extreme suffering, is of the "exotic." She thinks of their child as something to acquire, like a beautiful doll. That's Really Bad. I don't think a 7 or 8yo reader would necessarily grasp that second bit of dehumanizing horror. They don't have the knowledge. Sure, Pa corrects her... up to a point. But do kids know she's witnessing genocide? No.

I definitely don't think these books should be handed off to kids to read on their own. AND I don't think they should be read out loud in a classroom full of kids some of whom may or may not be of Native background who may find it much harder to hear. But I also have decided not to totally skip them with my kids. Instead I read them aloud, sometimes edit on the fly, and always discuss context and why some things are not okay no matter what, etc. 

[fairfarmhand]

I think the better question is Why did the adult Laura choose to include that comment?

So little kids say and do weird things. 

But looking back, we can all be embarrassed at the things that we did that were not okay as children and we would not publish them. So that story might indicate that adult Laura at the very least was a bit tone deaf. 

[bolt.]

1 hour ago, fairfarmhand said:

I think the better question is Why did the adult Laura choose to include that comment?

So little kids say and do weird things. 

But looking back, we can all be embarrassed at the things that we did that were not okay as children and we would not publish them. So that story might indicate that adult Laura at the very least was a bit tone deaf. 

Adult Laura might even have been reading the incident as anti-racist: like, "See how little kids don't hate other races? When they are little, they find racial differences beautiful! I've loved 'Indians' since I was a toddler."

On another aspect of the books, did the podcast discuss the situation at 'Silver Lake' at all? I recall feeling uncomfortable with the ways in which Ma and Pa were keeping care of young girls in the context of 'rough men' -- without telling the girls what the real risks of 'rough men' were, and that it wasn't all about them using bad language. There's (if I recall correctly) a throw-away line about one of their peers who had to suddenly get married? I need to read them again, but to me, as an adult reader, that whole scenario was just so sinister.

If I had a podcast, I'd be interested in that part of the story for sure.

[Ottakee]

3 minutes ago, bolt. said:

Adult Laura might even have been reading the incident as anti-racist: like, "See how little kids don't hate other races? When they are little, they find racial differences beautiful! I've loved 'Indians' since I was a toddler."

On another aspect of the books, did the podcast discuss the situation at 'Silver Lake' at all? I recall feeling uncomfortable with the ways in which Ma and Pa were keeping care of young girls in the context of 'rough men' -- without telling the girls what the real risks of 'rough men' were, and that it wasn't all about them using bad language. There's (if I recall correctly) a throw-away line about one of their peers who had to suddenly get married? I need to read them again, but to me, as an adult reader, that whole scenario was just so sinister.

If I had a podcast, I'd be interested in that part of the story for sure.

I don’t remember the podcast covering On The Shores Of Silver Lake at all.

[ktgrok]

2 hours ago, fairfarmhand said:

I think the better question is Why did the adult Laura choose to include that comment?

So little kids say and do weird things. 

But looking back, we can all be embarrassed at the things that we did that were not okay as children and we would not publish them. So that story might indicate that adult Laura at the very least was a bit tone deaf. 

Yeah, I do think this is the bigger question/issue. I wonder if she in her own mind was showcasing it in a "kids say the darndest things" way and not realizing how it comes across. 

[kbutton]

So, my kids (teen and YA) hadn’t ever seen the show. We’re watching the first season, and we’ve renamed it Little Angst on the Prairie. Kids melting toys for a church bell, kid who might have rabies, Laura wanting to give herself up for the dead baby, etc. I remember feeling selfish a lot when I watched because I was not nearly so virtuous, lol!

I had forgotten how funny it could be sometimes—some of the comebacks to or about Mrs. Olson are great.