How much do your just-graduated-from-college children make (esp in HCOL)?

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, Grace Hopper said:

Twenty percent is the magic number at which you don’t have to pay an additional monthly fee for mortgage premium insurance (MPI). Our first couple of houses were purchased with below 20% down. We did not live in any of them long enough to do this, but it’s recommended to follow up once your equity is above 20% so that insurance portion can be dropped. 
 

(this is based on personal experience but I realize the market has been bonkers the last few years so maybe this info is dated)

Avoiding MPI is a good goal. But if a person wants a house before they can save 20% they can do it. 

[Matryoshka]

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

Avoiding MPI is a good goal. But if a person wants a house before they can save 20% they can do it. 

Yeah, but even 10% of 500k is $50,000.  

[Scarlett]

23 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

Yeah, but even 10% of 500k is $50,000.  

Right. I can’t really grasp those kinds of prices. 

Edited June 27, 2023 by Scarlett

[Scarlett]

25 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

Yeah, but even 10% of 500k is $50,000.  

I think there are loans where only 3-5% is required. 

[Grace Hopper]

4 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I think there are loans where only 3-5% is required. 

Yes, the loan for our very first house was 3% down on a $100K house. That was a long time ago! But yes, there are various types of loans that do not require 20% down payments. 

[Faith-manor]

So I did some checking. That 20% threshold is what our local banks want from a buyer who does not meet certain criteria. The criteria for only 10% down is a credit rating of 750 or above, 10 years of work history, and a mortgage payment that is 25% of take home pay. This also insures a competitive interest rate. 

Most of our banks are credit unions and privately owned banks. We don't have much out here for big corporate owned banks so maybe that has something to do with it. Many of you have different experiences because you live in or near large cities with corporate banks, lots of money to blow, and willing to take more risk. I can totally see how our rural banks probably function quite differently.

I did some checking in our bachelor duo's lower COL city. The rates and thresholds online were 10% down and credit ratings around 725 and 5 years work history, some would go up to 33% of take home for the payment, and interest rates were okay at that threshold but not competitive. For them, a home in a stable neighborhood and decent school district would run for about 1200 sq ft, food shape but probably needing cosmetic work, and including appliances would be $300,000. Zillow estimated the payment at over $2000 a month, 10% down, and around $40,000 due at closing. Assuming a 25 year old graduated in four years - not actually very common as most colleges have an average 5 year sometimes 6 year graduation rate, the young adult only has 3 years work experience post college, and 3 years of paying down student loans. I am not sure it is reasonable to think very many of them can save $40,000 in that time frame, and also achieve at least 725 in credit rating.

I also did some other checking in 1980, the ration of home price to median income was 4.86. Today it is 7.79. That is a very significant increase which creates a bigger hurdle since wages have not kept up with inflation.

I wish some of the home ownership stats were broken down by regions, cost of living, etc. General medians and averages for the entire US or even at the statewide level aren't as helpful as I'd like.

In my area there are absolutely no banks loaning at 3-5% down. Not happening even if the credit rating is perfect.

 

[Arcadia]

9 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I think there are loans where only 3-5% is required. 

We had 5% down but our rates for HELOC and mortgage were high as we didn’t have credit history then. We did refinance to a lower rate after a few years with high credit scores. 

Here home prices are crazy and some banks are risk adverse after the Great Recession. We can only qualify for a $1M mortgage base on my husband’s income if we put 20% down. Else the bank offer for HELOC and mortgage would be at most $1.1M combined. 

One bedroom condos in my complex sold for above $700k including very recent sales. My husband and I bought our first condo when we were 29 for $430k. We don’t think our kids would be able to buy a starter condo at 25 even if we gift them the 5% down payment unless they happen to be married and dual income or if banks are giving out loans freely like they did before the Great Recession. 

[mom2scouts]

3 hours ago, Heartstrings said:

Prettt sure most of them are married.  2 incomes makes things much easier.  Married in a LCOL area is worlds away from single in a HCOL area.  

Yes, this is the difference. My two who are married and have dual incomes both have houses in LCOL areas. They're not big houses and they need work, but they're building equity. The other adult out of college is single and can't pay off student loans and save for a downpayment, so he's stuck renting.

[mom2scouts]

4 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

We had 5% down but our rates for HELOC and mortgage were high as we didn’t have credit history then. We did refinance to a lower rate after a few years with high credit scores. 

Here home prices are crazy and some banks are risk adverse after the Great Recession. We can only qualify for a $1M mortgage base on my husband’s income if we put 20% down. Else the bank offer for HELOC and mortgage would be at most $1.1M combined. 

One bedroom condos in my complex sold for above $700k including very recent sales. My husband and I bought our first condo when we were 29 for $430k. We don’t think our kids would be able to buy a starter condo at 25 even if we gift them the 5% down payment unless they happen to be married and dual income or if banks are giving out loans freely like they did before the Great Recession. 

$1M mortgage???? *Faints* I could buy a *huge* house in an upscale neighborhood for $700K! One of the problems for young adults in our LCOL area is that people are moving from HCOL areas and they have tons of cash from the sale of their house and they outbid locals and can pay in cash. It's driving up the cost of housing past what local incomes can absorb. I live in an older neighborhood where young families want to buy their first house and the houses sell in a day or two.

[Faith-manor]

2 minutes ago, mom2scouts said:

$1M mortgage???? *Faints* I could buy a *huge* house in an upscale neighborhood for $700K! One of the problems for young adults in our LCOL area is that people are moving from HCOL areas and they have tons of cash from the sale of their house and they outbid locals and can pay in cash. It's driving up the cost of housing past what local incomes can absorb. I live in an older neighborhood where young families want to buy their first house and the houses sell in a day or two.

This is happening all over. I really worry for young people. How can they compete with this?

[Scarlett]

Here only a 2 year work history is required. I am not sure what the DTI ratio is but I think a mortgage that is 25% of your take home income is sensible. 

Edited June 27, 2023 by Scarlett

[KSera]

9 hours ago, Janeway said:

All I ever hear from this young adult population is whine about wanting more money and less work. 

Tell the young person to get a marketable skill and quit whining to you about it.

This doesn’t match what I see with young people around me at all. Many of them are lucky just to find work at all. It’s not whining to be frustrated to apply to job after job after job and be unable to get a job. Even worse for those who have college degrees and thought they’d at least be employable at a level that allowed them to live independently in a small apartment or something but aren’t. I don’t know any who are expecting anything fancy, they just feel like they should be able to support themselves. 
 

Fortunately, most of the kids I know in that situation have families who are more supportive of them than just telling them to get a marketable skill and quit whining 😢. 

[Arcadia]

12 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I am not sure what the DTI ratio is but I think a mortgage that is 25% of your take home income is sensible. 

Here the banks we asked based on a DTI ratio of 33% of pre-taxed/W2 income which means someone could end up paying around 50% of take home pay for their mortgage.  

[rebcoola]

5 hours ago, Matryoshka said:

Who the heck are these 25yos?  My oldest two are 25, so I know a lot of YAs that age, and most of them are lucky if they're not living with their parents, or they have roommates.  I don't even know any that are managing enough income to live in a one-bedroom apartment by themselves.  Zero of them are even thinking of the possibility (no less reality) of home ownership.  My YA with a CS degree earning a very good salary and no student debt isn't thinking she'll ever manage home ownership.   Who ARE these 25yo unicorns?  If it's 1 in 3, I should know at least one.  Are they all in rural LCOL areas?  Are these kids with wealthy parents who paid the down payment?

I know a couple here. We  are MCOL and if you do a certficate program and get hired out at the nuclear plant you can be making 6 figures as a 20yr old with full benefits.

If you're able to live with parents releatives it doesnt take long to have enough to be a home the first time home buyers incentives.    Its what our oldest is hoping to do.

 

We also have a lot of YA who do 2-4 years military and than so to the power plants.  They buy house with VA loans basically zero down payment and no PMI its cheaper and easier than renting.  We dont have nearly enough rentals so the prices are crazy and their are waiting lists.  

Edited June 27, 2023 by rebcoola

[KSera]

21 minutes ago, rebcoola said:

if you do a certficate program and get hired out at the nuclear plant you can be making 6 figures as a 20yr old with full benefits.

I don’t think any of mine are likely to jump at working at a nuclear plant, but I’m curious which certification leads to this job? 

[rebcoola]

Non licensed nuclear operator,  Nuclear technology instrumentation

Nuclear technology protection

I think their are more for chem techs and other jobs but those are the ones I know.  You have to do more training once you're hired but its paid and their are bonuses for passing the licensing testing.

[KSera]

3 minutes ago, rebcoola said:

Non licensed nuclear operator,  Nuclear technology instrumentation

Nuclear technology protection

I think their are more for chem techs and other jobs but those are the ones I know.  You have to do more training once you're hired but its paid and their are bonuses for passing the licensing testing.

Thanks. We have one we’ve been looking at possible job certification fits for.

[000000000]

.

Edited September 9, 2023 by Petrova Fossil

[Kassia]

27 minutes ago, Petrova Fossil said:

It is (at least without a graduate degree).

I have two friends with daughters who only have a BA in psychology and both got jobs right out of college.  Not good starting salaries but one is older and has moved on to much better paying positions with age and experience. As someone said above, some jobs just require a college degree, but it doesn't matter what that degree is in.

My other friend's daughter just graduated and got a job as a "Behavioral Health Technician" and works with autistic children. The company that hired her is going to pay for additional education to get certifications so that she can move up in the company.  I doubt she makes much now but she's getting experience and continuing education, which will help her to earn more in the future.

 

ETA but I absolutely agree that it's very difficult to get a job with a BA in psychology that pays enough for you to be financially independent.  As I wrote earlier, ds1's girlfriend couldn't get a job with her psych degree.  She worked in a cupcake shop until she went back to school to get a masters in human resources. She's had a great career since grad school.

 

Edited June 27, 2023 by Kassia

[kbutton]

4 hours ago, Faith-manor said:

I also did some other checking in 1980, the ration of home price to median income was 4.86. Today it is 7.79. That is a very significant increase which creates a bigger hurdle since wages have not kept up with inflation.

I wish some of the home ownership stats were broken down by regions, cost of living, etc. General medians and averages for the entire US or even at the statewide level aren't as helpful as I'd like.

Nor have wages kept up with healthcare and insurance costs.

4 hours ago, mom2scouts said:

One of the problems for young adults in our LCOL area is that people are moving from HCOL areas and they have tons of cash from the sale of their house and they outbid locals and can pay in cash. It's driving up the cost of housing past what local incomes can absorb. I live in an older neighborhood where young families want to buy their first house and the houses sell in a day or two.

This is a big problem in rural areas too. 

[000000000]

.

Edited September 9, 2023 by Petrova Fossil

[Scarlett]

As sad as it is I think these young adults may have to move out of these high cost of living areas. I remember I had to leave my home town  and move to the city. Sometimes ya gotta do what ya gotta do. 

[Heartstrings]

1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

As sad as it is I think these young adults may have to move out of these high cost of living areas. I remember I had to leave my home town  and move to the city. Sometimes ya gotta do what ya gotta do. 

Unfortunately there aren’t a lot of jobs in the LCOL areas, that’s part of why the cost is lower.  

[J-rap]

...

Edited September 23, 2023 by J-rap

[Kassia]

3 hours ago, Kassia said:

 

My other friend's daughter just graduated and got a job as a "Behavioral Health Technician" and works with autistic children. The company that hired her is going to pay for additional education to get certifications so that she can move up in the company.  I doubt she makes much now but she's getting experience and continuing education, which will help her to earn more in the future.

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Petrova Fossil said:

What jobs did they get? 

One got the job I quoted above.  I can't remember the other one because it was a long time ago.  I think she's in sales now and doing well, but she started out with a job that just required a degree, but not a specific degree.  

 

[Scarlett]

52 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

Unfortunately there aren’t a lot of jobs in the LCOL areas, that’s part of why the cost is lower.  

🤷🏻‍♀️ there jobs here. In the Tulsa area.  Housing is about 1/4 of what some are quoting for hcol but the jobs pay more than 1/4 of hcol. 

[Sneezyone]

Just now, Scarlett said:

🤷🏻‍♀️ there jobs here. In the Tulsa area.  Housing is about 1/4 of what some are quoting for hcol but the jobs pay more than 1/4 of hcol. 

doing what outside of oil/gas and finance (b/c the laws support usury)?

[Scarlett]

7 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

doing what outside of oil/gas and finance (b/c the laws support usury)?

Engineering…. And finance those are two pretty big categories. 
Also a lot of health care jobs. 
But even non college jobs pay enough for young people to live on their own . 

Edited June 28, 2023 by Scarlett

[Faith-manor]

52 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

Unfortunately there aren’t a lot of jobs in the LCOL areas, that’s part of why the cost is lower.  

That is the catch 22 here. 

[Scarlett]

Just now, Faith-manor said:

That is the catch 22 here. 

The way you describe your area is VERY different from the Tulsa area.  Kids are buying houses without 4 year degrees. Kids have jobs that pay their bills with and without 4 year degrees. 

[Faith-manor]

4 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

The way you describe your area is VERY different from the Tulsa area.  Kids are buying houses without 4 year degrees. Kids have jobs that pay their bills with and without 4 year degrees. 

Many areas of Michigan have been on the decline for a long time. 

[Heartstrings]

3 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

The way you describe your area is VERY different from the Tulsa area.  Kids are buying houses without 4 year degrees. Kids have jobs that pay their bills with and without 4 year degrees. 

That’s true, things vary even within LCOL areas. When I lived near Little Rock there were plenty of jobs and opportunities like you describe.  Now that I’m in a small city 2 hours away, man it’s bleak.   Very few jobs paying higher than the manager at WalMart.  Housing is also weird here, there are cheaper homes, but not in safe areas, so realistically you have to pay more than you would think to get into a safe area.   
 

It seems like you still need to be near a city, but LCOL cities offer more than people think.  

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

That’s true, things vary even within LCOL areas. When I lived near Little Rock there were plenty of jobs and opportunities like you describe.  Now that I’m in a small city 2 hours away, man it’s bleak.   Very few jobs paying higher than the manager at WalMart.  Housing is also weird here, there are cheaper homes, but not in safe areas, so realistically you have to pay more than you would think to get into a safe area.   
 

It seems like you still need to be near a city, but LCOL cities offer more than people think.  

Yes, this is true. You can’t get too far from the cities for most jobs. For instance my home town, although a beautiful mountain town, is 90 min from any city. No jobs. High real estate (relatively). You either own a business or are retired. There is a factory there that pays decent… and health care workers are definitely always needed. But in general hard to find good work. 

[Sneezyone]

31 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

The way you describe your area is VERY different from the Tulsa area.  Kids are buying houses without 4 year degrees. Kids have jobs that pay their bills with and without 4 year degrees. 

I KNOW your area and find it usurious even as I'm pleased your kids are finding success. I would *never* recommend new, upwardly mobile grads relocate there.

Edited June 28, 2023 by Sneezyone

[Sneezyone]

29 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

That’s true, things vary even within LCOL areas. When I lived near Little Rock there were plenty of jobs and opportunities like you describe.  Now that I’m in a small city 2 hours away, man it’s bleak.   Very few jobs paying higher than the manager at WalMart.  Housing is also weird here, there are cheaper homes, but not in safe areas, so realistically you have to pay more than you would think to get into a safe area.   
 

It seems like you still need to be near a city, but LCOL cities offer more than people think.  

Little Rock is a dying/fading metro. All of the money is in NWA with robber-baron families not regular Joes.

Edited June 28, 2023 by Sneezyone

[Scarlett]

Just now, Sneezyone said:

I KNOW your area and find it usurious even as I'm pleased youe kids are finding success. i would *never* recommend new, upwardly mobile grads relocate there.

I don’t understand what you are saying.  You don’t like the laws? The politics? No one is forced to take out a high interest loan.  We aren’t even talking about the demographic that is harmed by that practice.  We are talking about young adults being able to support themselves.  
 

 

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Little Rock is a dying/fading metro. All of the money is in NWA with robber-baron families.

So, NWA is also bad in your opinion?  Good grief.  Be realistic.

[Sneezyone]

2 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I don’t understand what you are saying.  You don’t like the laws? The politics? No one is forced to take out a high interest loan.  We aren’t even talking about the demographic that is harmed by that practice.  We are talking about young adults being able to support themselves.  
 

 

The weather, the politics, the usurious laws, the demographics...all of it are indicative of a boom/bust (NOT SUSTAINABLE) area. BTDT. No one I know from HS who's worth a damn still lives there. Transplant MMV.

Edited June 28, 2023 by Sneezyone

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

The weather, the politics, the usurious laws, the demographics...all of it are indicative of a boom/bust (NOT SUSTAINABLE) area.

If it is not for you, ok, good for you. NWA is a beautiful area to live in and people make a decent living.  
 

What area do you suggest for young adults starting out trying to make a living on their own?

Also not sure if you are referring to Tulsa or NWA….similar weather I guess…I think AR is more beautiful, but Tulsa /green country isnt  the worst.

Edited June 28, 2023 by Scarlett

[Sneezyone]

Just now, Scarlett said:

If it is not for you, ok, good for you. NWA is a beautiful area to live in and people make a decent living.  

What area do you suggest for young adults starting out trying to make a living on their own?

I'd welcome a move to rugged Montana over Arkansas (not a joke). Wyoming, Ohio/Pennsylvania...there are lots of places.

Arkansas is a cesspool and everyone in the capitol knows it.

[Scarlett]

Just now, Sneezyone said:

I'd welcome a move to rugged Montana over Arkansas (not a joke). Wyoming, Ohio/Pennsylvania...there are lots of places.

Arkansas is a cesspool and everyone in the capitol knows it.

Has anyone ever suggested to you that you might be a tad judgmental and rigid?  Just asking.  With love.  Gently. 

[Heartstrings]

10 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Little Rock is a dying/fading metro. All of the money is in NWA with robber-baron families.

I don’t love there anymore so I can’t say with any certainty, but LR doesn’t feel dying to me, although I know the real growth is in the suburbs.   Can’t argue about that WalMart money in NWA.   For all that I hate it, I do appreciate that the Walton’s have invested up there, in particular in an effort to attract talent.   Doesn’t negate the bad things, but I wish more corporations did that, in general.  
 

My current small city/large town is dying.  I can see it every day.    The toilet paper is chained to the wall at the library, homeless every where, nothing downtown but squatters, trash everywhere because there is no pride in the city.  It’s so sad.  

Edited June 28, 2023 by Heartstrings

[Sneezyone]

8 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I don’t understand what you are saying.  You don’t like the laws? The politics? No one is forced to take out a high interest loan.  We aren’t even talking about the demographic that is harmed by that practice.  We are talking about young adults being able to support themselves.  
 

 

ALL OF THE ABOVE. Arkansas is currently lost.

[Sneezyone]

Just now, Scarlett said:

Has anyone ever suggested to you that you might be a tad judgmental and rigid?  Just asking.  With love.  Gently. 

Yep. And, yet, time has proven me right. In every case. Read the politics board (oh, wait, the old threads are lost...)

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, Sneezyone said:

Yep. And, yet, time has proven me right. In every case. Read the politics board (oh, wait, the old threads are lost...)

What does it mean to you that AR is lost?  I mean, I have deep,roots there and no one I am close to seems lost In the slightest.

Edited June 28, 2023 by Scarlett

[Sneezyone]

1 minute ago, Heartstrings said:

I don’t love there anymore so I can’t say with any certainty, but LR doesn’t feel duing to me, although I know the real growth is in the suburbs.   Can’t argue about that WalMart money in NWA.   For all that I hate it, I do appreciate that the Walton’s have invested up there, in particular in an effort to attract talent.   Doesn’t negate the bad things, but I wish more corporations did that, in general.  
 

My current small city/large town is dying.  I can see it every day.    The toilet paper is chained to the wall at the library, homeless every where, nothing downtown but squatters, trash everywhere because there is no pride in the city.  It’s so sad.  

The sad part is that NWA now controls the state as a whole even as it poisons its region.

[Sneezyone]

Just now, Scarlett said:

What does it mean to you that AR is lost?  I mean, I have deep,roots there and no one I am close to seems lost I. The slightest.

Bless you. Good luck to your and yours. report back in 5 years.

[Scarlett]

Just now, Sneezyone said:

Bless you. Good luck to your and yours. report back in 5 years.

I might be dead by then,  so that is weird to me.  

[Scarlett]

Just now, Sneezyone said:

Bless you. Good luck to your and yours. report back in 5 years.

Same with Tulsa?

[Sneezyone]

4 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Same with Tulsa?

 

Not sure. Depends on how willing the locals are to follow its ideologues over the proverbial cliff. Used to be that the Ozarks had a rugged, individualist streak that prioritized collective action and sticking it to the powers that be. railroads, electricity, they fought HARD/DIRTY. Both TN and OK have an opportunity to turn back the tide. Will they do so? I doubt it. I could never, in good conscience, recommend relocating or staying there for smart young people. Extenuating circumstances, sure. 

Edited June 28, 2023 by Sneezyone