4 or 5 years for college?

[matrips]

So 4 years was always the standard in my mind.  I struggled through an Electrical Engineering degree with minors in 4.  But with less than stellar grades. So maybe it wasn’t the best way, but if I had a full ride on the line, like my kids will, it would have been horrendous.

So I'm looking at my kids degree plan (STEM and Honors and some minors they’re interested in) and showing them how to be careful what courses to pair together, watch the number of credits etc, and it appears it would be much better to spread it over 4.5 -5 years. I want them to enjoy college, have time to be involved, and not be stressed.  It may also give more time for internships and exploration.  The scholarship will cover all expenses over 5 years and they’re going in with 45+ credits. So it’s a sweet deal, if they keep it. 

So what are the downsides?  Will they just be antsy and sick of school? Will they relax and enjoy this period before working the rest of their lives?  Is it looked down upon to take 5 years?  Obviously, they’re starting in the workforce a year later, so a year less of earnings.  Summer classes could be an option as well.
 

Would you share your thoughts and experiences?  For reference- I’m talking about taking 12-15 credits a semester (but most semesters just 12–13). And doing it especially for the first couple years to build that GPA up.

[ScoutTN]

Downside/deal breaker for us for Dd would be that scholarships are only good for four years. 

Ime in grad school, I would really have loved an extra year to really dive into my studies and be less deadline and grades driven. 

Edited January 13, 2023 by ScoutTN

[rzberrymom]

Gosh, if it’s financially feasible, I can’t imagine there are any downsides. What a blessing for a kiddo!

[Kristini2]

6 minutes ago, ScoutTN said:

Downside/deal breaker for us for Dd will be that scholarships are only good for four years. 

Ime in grad school, I would really have loved an extra year to really dive into my studies and be less deadline and grades driven. 

My DD just graduated with a degree in physics minor in English. She had a generous merit scholarship, but it was only good for 8-semesters, so she graduated in 8-semesters. If it is the same price or you can afford the extra cost, I can see a lot of benefits to going slower and/or getting to take more classes in the disciplines your student is interested in. 

[Bootsie]

I think a lot depends on the personality of the student.  If many of the friends the student begins college with are moving on after four years--graduate school, interesting jobs, starting other opportunities, the student who is taking five years can feel lonely and left behind.  

Although the scholarship may cover up to five years of education, you need to check and see what the definitions of "progress towards degree" are.  Often a student must complete a particular number of hours per academic year toward a degree and complete a percentage of hours started in order to maintain financial awards.  In other words, a student who is a biology major can't come in with a lot of hours and simply take random classes that are not part of the degree program for a year. 

I generally recommend that a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush--get the degree if possible, rather than taking extra time for double majors, minors, or other activities.  You never know when a financial situation may change and working the fifth year is prudent, or a health problem may interfere with a semester.  In some instances, the fifth year of financial aid can be applied to graduate work. 

[Lecka]

My good friend did a year abroad during her 4th year and then came back and had a 5th year.  I was a year younger and we hung out a lot that year, and she was language partners with the spouse of a graduate student.  
 

Otherwise her main friend group had already graduated.  
 

It worked well with her goals and was very productive for her, but she missed “her Senior year” with her set of friends.  
 

We were also friends and I was somewhat friends with that group.  
 

But they all graduated together and my friend went to graduation with me and we had a little group, but I do think she was sad she missed doing it with her class.  I had had a class with the valedictorian who gave a graduation speech and knew him a little.  She had known the valedictorian for “her year” but didn’t know this one.  
 

But she definitely had a good plan, set up for it well, and adored her year abroad.  

[Clarita]

1 hour ago, matrips said:

So what are the downsides?  Will they just be antsy and sick of school? Will they relax and enjoy this period before working the rest of their lives?  Is it looked down upon to take 5 years?  Obviously, they’re starting in the workforce a year later, so a year less of earnings.  Summer classes could be an option as well.

I haven't heard of anyone looking down on anyone for taking 4.5-5 years. For some stem majors it is more the norm vs. 4 years. I also don't necessarily think that taking 5 years means they are relaxed... because sometimes the degree takes 5 because scheduling and classes aren't offered all the time rather than students being leisurely with college. 

The biggest downside depends on the economy which is unpredictable,  Graduating 6 months early meant I got a job directly out of college, friends graduating 6 months later took a year or more to land their first job.

I took 4 years for my BSEE with OK grades. I don't think I would have gotten any better grades finishing in 5. I tried much harder for my Master's but that was because I did it concurrently with a fulltime job so everything I was learning in school I could use at work and saw the connection to the real world as I learned it. 

[teachermom2834]

I think there is nothing wrong with taking five years and there can be many advantages. My kids went into college with a year of de credit and we encouraged them to take the four years because it just have them so many more opportunities. More time for internships/minors/personal growth etc. 

The downside isn’t really rational. Some people get antsy. This would be myself and my kids. I was so ready to be done with college and get married and move on. My boys would not want to spend five years in undergrad. We were all dying to bust out of high school and get to college too. I cannot say it is rational or a trait that necessarily has served us well but it is true and it is strong.
 

To a young brain another 18 months can feel like FOREVER. All of us here know it is not. But immature brains? That’s a long time. 

So if there is a chance young brain is going to go three years and think “I’m not doing this another two years” and bail. Well, that is not a win. So maybe if there is a way to balance this approach with a backup plan that can speed things up if kid just wants to be done? Life happens. Is there a marriage or pregnancy or deployment or some other something percolating that can’t even be anticipated now? 
 

So, on paper, nothing wrong at all with five years.Actually lots of benefits.  But knowing the people in my family I think it would be a plan that carried some kind of risk of regret that things had been slowed down unnecessarily. 

[Farrar]

Some schools, like schools with co-ops like Drexel and Cincinnati actually require 5 years for many degrees. And other schools have fifth year free, like Agnes Scott. Or have 4+1 degrees - that's so common now, where you do undergrad and masters in 5 years, though that's not exactly the same as taking the chill path all the way through.

I think it depends on the kid as to whether it's the right path. Just like with high school, kids can outgrow their undergrad fishbowl. But if it is right, then assuming financials are fine, I don't see any real downsides.

Edited January 13, 2023 by Farrar

[8filltheheart]

 My kids wanted to be done in 4. Even my chemE who co-oped fir 12 months graduated in 4 plus a summer (using crs he entered with).

Conversely, we encouraged our kids who could have earned their degrees in under 4 yrs to stay and take advantage of research and other opportunities like CLS.

[matrips]

2 hours ago, Bootsie said:

generally recommend that a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush--get the degree if possible, rather than taking extra time for double majors, minors, or other activities.  You never know when a financial situation may change and working the fifth year is prudent, or a health problem may interfere with a semester. 

I agree.  The scholarship will pay up to 10 semesters or until they complete  their first Bachelor degree, whichever comes first.  So some students finish most of it but just leave one class undone until they want to graduate.  So if any issue popped up, it would be fairly easy to finish the degree.

Edited January 13, 2023 by matrips

[matrips]

1 hour ago, Clarita said:

The biggest downside depends on the economy which is unpredictable,  Graduating 6 months early meant I got a job directly out of college, friends graduating 6 months later took a year or more to land their first job.

Good point

[Clemsondana]

The scholarship that I had was only good for 4 years - I went in knowing that it would take something big for me to change majors in a way that would require more time because I got a great deal if I finished on schedule.  Spouse's major now requires fewer hours than it did when we were students.  Other  disadvantages that I can think of are that they will have fewer classes with their cohort if everybody else is trying to graduate in 4 years and may see their friends graduate.  I had a relative who did extended co-ops, and in the end was desperate to finish saying that they were the oldest undergrad on campus.  A friend who changed majors and graduated a year after the rest of us was lonely that last year and missed out on doing the graduation celebration with the rest of us.  

I think it's the kind of thing that you can't plan, though.  Maybe a student meets some awesome friends or a significant other and would love to graduate with them, either faster than usual, slower, or on schedule.  Maybe they get involved in a cool research project and want more time.  Maybe they don't really have a cohort in class, since a lot of kids came in with DE and AP so they're not missing anything by not all graduating together.  Maybe they are recruited to grad school or a job and are in a hurry to move on.  I tend to think 'aim for 4 years, but be flexible'.  

[matrips]

19 minutes ago, Clemsondana said:

Other  disadvantages that I can think of are that they will have fewer classes with their cohort if everybody else is trying to graduate in 4 years and may see their friends graduate.  I had a relative who did extended co-ops, and in the end was desperate to finish saying that they were the oldest undergrad on campus.  A friend who changed majors and graduated a year after the rest of us was lonely that last year and missed out on doing the graduation celebration with the rest of us.  

I would have felt that way at my college too, but it was a smaller private one.  Our engineering class had 110 kids and I graduated next to the kid I sat next to in Chem 1 first day of school.  🙂

Theirs would be a large state one and lots of kids do come in with AAs or many AP credits, so I’m not sure how that cohort factor works in that kind of environment. That will be worth finding out. 

[Clarita]

29 minutes ago, matrips said:

Theirs would be a large state one and lots of kids do come in with AAs or many AP credits, so I’m not sure how that cohort factor works in that kind of environment. That will be worth finding out. 

I went to a large state University. I think you wouldn't notice as much there were people sitting in my major section graduating with me whom I've never met. I mean I can't be sure that I actually have never encountered them in the 4 years I was at the school but I don't recognize their face. I had friends that were graduating 1-3 quarters later and they weren't alone or "left behind".

You get to chose seats so I still sat next to someone I had hung out with from the first day of class. 

[Clemsondana]

1 hour ago, matrips said:

I would have felt that way at my college too, but it was a smaller private one.  Our engineering class had 110 kids and I graduated next to the kid I sat next to in Chem 1 first day of school.  🙂

Theirs would be a large state one and lots of kids do come in with AAs or many AP credits, so I’m not sure how that cohort factor works in that kind of environment. That will be worth finding out. 

I was at a large state U, but i graduated with a roommate that I'd known for 3 years and lived with for 2.  The school was big, but my specific major was smaller and there was a small study group that all graduated together.  Spouse was in a big major, but there was a group of 3 of them who did all group projects together.  Once we found a good lab partner, we generally planned to take other required courses together.  We didn't necessarily know everybody, but we did know a small number fairly well.  We still exchange Christmas cards and facebook comments 30 years later (and still visit some roommates at least yearly).  

[BusyMom5]

My kid is on a similar/same scholarship and also went in with 45+ credits.  I think it depends on the kid and the major they want, as well as the other experiences they want. 

I think mine is still kinda figuring it out in her second year.  Currently she plans to get a Masters (through AMP program) in one degree, and a second bachelor degree.  She can get them all within the 4 years (and has space for a few extra classes, too).  She may use the 5th for a second Masters if she thinks she wants it, but we are just going to wait and see.  She has changed her mind over and over 😉

Internships can be done in the summers, but some programs like Engineering have co-ops which kind of add a year to the graduation date but do not take away a year from the scholarship.  If they want to get a MBA and Engineering,  that might take the 5th year.  

Study abroad is another fun opportunity,  but currently both my kids majors don't offer classes abroad.  If she goes (currently doesn't think it will work out), all the classes would be electives or toward a minor or something.  She might do a Maymester instead.  If SA is something they want to do,  you kind of need to map it out, too.  

So, long story short, the kids will have to decide on their own which opportunities they want to pursue and see how it works into their schedule.   Mine wanted to do the 4 years after her first year instead of graduating early.  She has another friend who graduated after 3 semesters (seriously!  On this scholarship!!!! 🤯).  She has friends who will take 5 years and do a co-op, too.  I think the answers will change once they get to school and see what opportunities are available, what friends are doing, and see how fast that first year goes by.  

Best of luck to all three of them!  

[regentrude]

My DD completed a double major in physics and literature within four years. her university did not allow students to take longer than 8 semesters plus the summer after. DS completed his physics degree in 9 semesters because of a Covid related scheduling issue; his scholarship only covered four years, but he only had one class to take his final semester.

Many students take longer than 4 years. It all depends on what a student is doing with the extra time. Many engineering students have coops which necessitate an additional semester but are a valuable experience that positions them well for the job market. Students can use the extra time to develop minors, double majors, gain research experience, study abroad - those are fantastic opportunities. As long as they are progressing, nobody looks down upon it. I have students who choose to stay the extra year so they can do more research to strengthen their grad school application.

Caution: if the student is interested in graduate school, they should plan on graduating in either 8 or 10 semesters to avoid the gap semester, as most grad programs start in the fall.

I also have students who would be bored if they only took 12-13 credit hours. One of my advisees regularly petitions to be permitted an excess load of 20+ hours and he also does research; this is how he thrives.

So I would recommend going into college with all options open and not make any decisions early on that force the student into a 5 year plan. Or even into a particular major - college is for exploring, and they may discover that something sparks their passion they didn't even know existed. 

Edited January 13, 2023 by regentrude

[skimomma]

My dd attends a school in which 5 years is the norm.  Some do manage to finish in 4, but it is hard and there is zero wiggle room.  I attended the same school and graduated with a BSME in 4 years and it was hard.  If I could have done it differently, I would have.  Which is what I keep telling my dd.  She is freaked out because her scholarship only covers 8 semesters.  But I happen to know that you can apply for an extension and most are approved.  And even if she could not, one year of loans is really not the end of the world.  She is an engineering major, with a minor in ecology.  To graduate in 4 years, despite coming in with 36 credits, would require 18 credits a semester.  While that is "do-able," I want her to enjoy this time, feel free to take classes outside of her major, and have room to mess up.  So far, she has ignored me and is trying to finish in 4 years but I feel like she might cave soon.  She has an internship this summer that could turn into part-time research work during the school year.  There is no way she can juggle that and 18 credits along with her other activities and interests.

And no, I don't think anyone looks at how long it took for someone to get their degree.  There are just too many factors to consider....co-ops, internships, family issues, course availability, financial issues, minors, medical issues, changes in degree program, covid, etc.....  Even back when I went to school, everyone was graduating at different times.  For an engineering major, what math class you got placed into as a freshman could mean a whole additional year!

 

[matrips]

Skimomma- I hope she takes the extra year. 18 credits a semester is rough with engineering.

Edited January 18, 2023 by matrips

[catz]

I have a BS math and a BS comp sci and took 5 years.  My son is getting a double degree and is graduating in four (CS/Music).  BUT he did a bunch of dual enrollment that covered some general eds.  AND he took classes 3 summers.  So he actually hasn't had an internship in one of his degree paths.  So he will work after graduation though I suspect he is interested in grad school in some direction.  He did have 18 credits last semester, he may have had that other semesters too.  He is doing a lot of music stuff this semester so is trying to go a little lighter this semester.  I think he still may have 16 credits.  He is definitely an academic nerd type, had stats to apply anywhere.  My younger kid would HATE what he is doing.

Anyway - I do feel like at a lot of flagships especially in engineering/CS/other STEM, 5 years is not atypical at all.  And if it's affordable, I don't see the issue.  I also know students who self design an internship or co-op through a semester.  Or other students who really need to work while they're a student so need to take lighter loads this way.  I think this is much less typical at like liberal arts schools.  But I also feel like their curriculum is much more designed to get kids through in 4 one way or another.  Like if you are a CS major in a LAC you probably will come out of college with a different skill set than someone doing a BS out of an engineering program.  

[JanetC]

I wouldn't try to plan out their 4-5 year degree plans while they're still in high school or right after high school graduation: Plans. Change. However, it does make sense to explain to your kids what you can and cannot afford, and to let them know if extra time is or is not an option.

My kids went two different directions: A private LAC and a large in-state public. Affording a 5th year at the public U would have been no problem, but it would have been a stretch for us at the LAC.  The kid at the state U could handle course overloads and did so on a routine basis. The kid at the LAC got overloaded even with a "standard" schedule.  Turns out we didn't pay room and board for the covid-all-remote terms, and the kid at the in-state public actually graduated with money left over in her 529, which we could never have planned for.  Turns out the small LAC did not have good mental health support and the kid at the LAC burned out hard and barely made it to graduation, which we could never have planned for. She probably would have had to take a leave of absence without a degree rather than do a 5th year...

Both kids changed their minds about majors and what classes to take quite a bit through their first couple years. Course offerings change. Favorite professors leave the college. All sorts of things can happen.