What did your kids think about being homeschooled after being done?

[Roadrunner]

I am hearing here loneliness being conflated with being quirky or socially awkward? I mean you can be quirky and social or mainstream and lonely. Lots of variables go into it. You can have an amazing high school experience because you happen to have a handful of great kids by chance in your year, or an equally miserable one because the neighborhood bully is sitting in your year. You could be super happy with homeschooling and have couple of best friends in the neighborhood who also happen to be homeschooling. Or you might not know a single homeschooler with an hour radius and be lonely. All sorts of things could happen. It’s not a judgement of sorts. It’s called life circumstances.

Edited October 13, 2022 by Roadrunner

[maize]

4 hours ago, Terabith said:

Oh, of course it doesn’t.  My argument is in no way that public school is best.  It’s not.  Ultimately, it led my oldest to have a nervous breakdown because they couldn’t cope with the stimuli.  I regularly suggest that people pull their kids.  And academically, public school has been pathetic for my kids.  It’s certainly not where they go to get an education.  
 

My point is that there’s no perfect situation.  And that sometimes, when a situation is not working, trying something different is a reasonable thing to do.  I see people saying all the time that homeschooling is miserable, and their kids are crying, and they are super stressed, but they are convinced anything else would be worse.  But they haven’t tried anything else.  And the same with public or private school.  My only point is if something isn’t working, try something else.  Don’t be so dogmatically wedded to a single form of education that you don’t consider alternatives.  

I call this flex-schooling--considering all available options, needs of the child, needs of the family, and trying to make the best choice among those available.

And being flexible to reconsider in the future.

[Jean in Newcastle]

37 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

I am hearing here loneliness being conflated with being quirky or socially awkward? I mean you can be quirky and social or mainstream and lonely. Lots of variables go into it. You can have an amazing high school experience because you happen to have a handful of great kids by chance in your year, or an equally miserable one because the neighborhood bulky is sitting in your year. You could be super happy with homeschooling and couple of best friends in the neighborhood who also happen to be homeschooling. Or you might not know a single homeschooler without an hour radius and lonely. All sorts of takings could happen. It’s not a judgement of sorts. It’s called life circumstances.

You are correct. And so is Terabith when she says that the best thing is to try something different if what you’re doing isn’t working. Isn’t that what you did?

(btw things can not be working for many different reasons. ). 

[Roadrunner]

21 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

You are correct. And so is Terabith when she says that the best thing is to try something different if what you’re doing isn’t working. Isn’t that what you did?

(btw things can not be working for many different reasons. ). 

Exactly. You can’t imagine what acrobatics we did here and for both kids. I don’t want to say all for privacy reasons, but yes, you have always got to try things. Being ideological about things isn’t the best approach. 

[Melissa Louise]

Who's being ideological? 

[Roadrunner]

13 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

Who's being ideological? 

Generally speaking. 

[Not_a_Number]

10 hours ago, wendyroo said:

And then are cases like my Spencer. He is not on the spectrum; he "just" has severe ADHD and anxiety. He is also a huge people pleaser, and I expect I could "socialize" him out of some of his benign quirkiness. But I don't. 1) He is very sensitive and anxious, and explicit social skills teaching often makes him feel chastened, worthless, reluctant to engage with others, and even more ill-at-ease which leads to increased awkwardness and quirkiness. 2) I have bigger fish to fry. When I have my psychiatrist and social worker hats on, I have to devote most of my time to helping my kids overcome their most harmful, damaging behaviors. Spencer's quirkiness does not rise to that level, so I have limited resources to stage intensive interventions. There are so many perfectly understandable reasons that a parent might not have the resources to tackle a child's quirk on society's time table: mental illness of their own, a medically fragile child, medical issues of their own, caring for ailing parents, job or financial stresses, etc.

Sometimes, I think parents of neurotypical kids vastly underestimate how much time and energy and work it takes to "fix" even a small maladaptive behavior in some non-neurotypical children. They seem to imply that if a child is "still" acting maladaptively, then the parent doesn't care enough to even put in the small amount of effort required. But I can tell you, in many cases the necessary effort is intensive. I have been trying to help Spencer remember to brush his teeth after breakfast for 5 years now...and he currently independently remembers about once a week. 🤨 And this is not "trying" like I have mentioned it a few times, this "trying" is signs and reminders and sticker charts and rewards and consequences and concerted effort e.v.e.r.y s.i.n.g.l.e d.a.y for five years.

I always remember that ABA therapy often gets implemented 20-30 hours a week to help a child adapt behaviors. So an attitude of "can't you make him stop pacing, it makes him look weird" is actually asking that parent to devote a part time job's worth of time to remediating that behavior that is ultimately harmless just to fit their child into society's narrow mold of "normal".

No one has said ANYTHING about socializing kids out of their quirks. You're reading something in my posts that's not there. 

For us, rewards and consequences don't work at all. This kind of trying always backfired in my house. I don't know your kids, but that was my (extremely frustrating) experience. 

[Not_a_Number]

4 hours ago, Roadrunner said:

I am hearing here loneliness being conflated with being quirky or socially awkward? I mean you can be quirky and social or mainstream and lonely. Lots of variables go into it. You can have an amazing high school experience because you happen to have a handful of great kids by chance in your year, or an equally miserable one because the neighborhood bully is sitting in your year. You could be super happy with homeschooling and have couple of best friends in the neighborhood who also happen to be homeschooling. Or you might not know a single homeschooler with an hour radius and be lonely. All sorts of things could happen. It’s not a judgement of sorts. It’s called life circumstances.

I'm also seeing being quirky or naturally awkward being conflated with kids simply not getting enough social time to practice a variety of social dynamics. And I've absolutely seen the latter issue. 

DD10 went to preschool and kindergarten and hasn't gone to school ever since, and while we were not at all happy with school and pulled her out in Grade 1, one thing we saw very clearly was that increased exposure to kids REALLY helped her make friends. 

Now, that increased exposure also came with lots more social pressure, useless academics, and teachers who were not nearly as mindful as I am in helping her through issues that came up with her friends (and that, in fact, closed their eyes to some very unpleasant dynamics between the kids, although those didn't involve my kid.) 

I'm not singing the praises of school here. I don't like school myself and I didn't like it for my kid. But socially, for us, it had advantages as well as disadvantages. And I find it frustrating that talking about this can offend people on here. 

Edited October 14, 2022 by Not_a_Number

[Melissa Louise]

Saying school can sometimes have social advantages isn't offensive. 

Suggesting that you can 'tell' which kids are exhibiting certain behaviours you judge as socially awkward because they are weird and not nurtured socially, and feeling smug that they are not your kids is offensive. 

 

 

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Melissa Louise said:

Saying school can sometimes have social advantages isn't offensive. 

Suggesting that you can 'tell' which kids are exhibiting certain behaviours you judge as socially awkward because they are weird and not nurtured socially, and feeling smug that they are not your kids is offensive. 

I'm a judgmental jerk sometimes, what can I say? I refuse not to judge. Not paying attention to my gut has only gotten me in trouble in the last 10 years. 

I'll be wrong sometimes, but at least I'll be doing my best given what I see. 

[Melissa Louise]

11 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I'm a judgmental jerk sometimes, what can I say? I refuse not to judge. 

Well, that's between you and you, I guess. 

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Melissa Louise said:

Well, that's between you and you, I guess. 

I'm comfortable with it 🤷‍♀️. 

My life has been seriously distorted by trying to go with what people tell me instead of my lying eyes 😉 . I ain't doing that anymore. 

[Arcadia]

DS17 was so done with homeschooling after 8th grade. He didn’t want to go to public high school either while my husband didn’t want to pay for private. So he called the community college he picked as his high school from 10th grade onwards. He was lonely enough to think about running away. Both DS17 and DS16 isn’t keen on dating, marriage or children and they already said they would send their kids to school if they have any. The only thing they like about homeschooling was that they could sleep late and wake up late. 

Edited October 14, 2022 by Arcadia
clarification

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, Arcadia said:

DS17 was so done with homeschooling after 8th grade. He didn’t want to go to public school either while my husband didn’t want to pay for private. So he called the community college he picked as his high school from 10th grade onwards. He was lonely enough to think about running away. Both DS17 and DS16 isn’t keen on dating, marriage or children and they already said they would send their kids to school if they have any. The only thing they like about homeschooling was that they could sleep late and wake up late. 

Why didn't he want to go to public school? 

[Melissa Louise]

10 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I'm comfortable with it 🤷‍♀️. 

My life has been seriously distorted by trying to go with what people tell me instead of my lying eyes 😉 . I ain't doing that anymore. 

Discernment and being judgemental are not the same things, imo.

 

[Arcadia]

1 minute ago, Not_a_Number said:

Why didn't he want to go to public school? 

He didn’t mind going to public school for elementary school. We started homeschooling when he was in 5th grade. He didn’t want to go to the public high school because he would have to wait for the school bus at 7:30am and we would need to chauffeur him from school to community college for dual enrollment when he runs out of math in 10th grade (highest they have was Calc BC). The private high schools we were looking at have multivariable calc on campus as well as independent study options. 

[Not_a_Number]

3 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

Discernment and being judgemental are not the same things, imo.

You're right. But when I say that I think I can see certain things about how kids are being socialized, I think I'm being discerning.

I suppose the judgmental part is when I think people could be doing better. Which I do, sometimes. And sometimes I'm just sad that people are struggling. It varies. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

34 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I'm also seeing being quirky or naturally awkward being conflated with kids simply not getting enough social time to practice a variety of social dynamics. And I've absolutely seen the latter issue. 

DD10 went to preschool and kindergarten and hasn't gone to school ever since, and while we were not at all happy with school and pulled her out in Grade 1, one thing we saw very clearly was that increased exposure to kids REALLY helped her make friends. 

Now, that increased exposure also came with lots more social pressure, useless academics, and teachers who were not nearly as mindful as I am in helping her through issues that came up with her friends (and that, in fact, closed their eyes to some very unpleasant dynamics between the kids, although those didn't involve my kid.) 

I'm not singing the praises of school here. I don't like school myself and I didn't like it for my kid. But socially, for us, it had advantages as well as disadvantages. And I find it frustrating that talking about this can offend people on here. 

?  Multiple people (including me) have literally said that school can have advantages as well as disadvantages.  But we've also said that there are other ways to get those advantages - through other activities.  School is not the only place in our culture and society where children gather in groups and where they can make friends.  I find it frustrating when a false dichotomy is presented.

[Melissa Louise]

Just now, Not_a_Number said:

You're right. But when I say that I think I can see certain things about how kids are being socialized, I think I'm being discerning.

I suppose the judgmental part is when I think people could be doing better. Which I do, sometimes. And sometimes I'm just sad that people are struggling. It varies. 

Live long enough and you find out that the vast majority of people are doing what they can.

Like I said, you and you. 

 

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Jean in Newcastle said:

?  Multiple people (including me) have literally said that school can have advantages as well as disadvantages.  But we've also said that there are other ways to get those advantages - through other activities.  School is not the only place in our culture and society where children gather in groups and where they can make friends.  I find it frustrating when a false dichotomy is presented.

It's not the only place. I agree with that. 

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Melissa Louise said:

Live long enough and you find out that the vast majority of people are doing what they can.

Like I said, you and you. 

I wasn't doing what I could. I regret that. 

[KSera]

41 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I'm a judgmental jerk sometimes, what can I say? I refuse not to judge. Not paying attention to my gut has only gotten me in trouble in the last 10 years. 

I'll be wrong sometimes, but at least I'll be doing my best given what I see. 

I’m not sure what you’re doing your best at by judging other kids as not being up to snuff and further deciding that you have the knowledge required to feel confident that is due to deficient parenting rather than anything inborn in the kid. 

20 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

DS17 was so done with Both DS17 and DS16 isn’t keen on dating, marriage or children and they already said they would send their kids to school if they have any. 

I have the opposite issue with my grown kids. Neither of them want kids, but both say one of the reasons is because they don’t want to homeschool their kids but don’t think it would be right to send them to school given what they know about homeschooling. 

[Not_a_Number]

4 minutes ago, KSera said:

I’m not sure what you’re doing your best at by judging other kids as not being up to snuff and further deciding that you have the knowledge required to feel confident that is due to deficient parenting rather than anything inborn in the kid. . 

Well, I suppose if I think someone's making decisions that aren't best for their kid, which I do sometimes, I could talk to them about it, or I could offer to help myself, or... lots of things. If I just pretend something's not a problem, then I can't do anything at all. 

Edited October 14, 2022 by Not_a_Number

[Clarita]

37 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

DS17 was so done with homeschooling after 8th grade. He didn’t want to go to public high school either while my husband didn’t want to pay for private. So he called the community college he picked as his high school from 10th grade onwards. He was lonely enough to think about running away. Both DS17 and DS16 isn’t keen on dating, marriage or children and they already said they would send their kids to school if they have any. The only thing they like about homeschooling was that they could sleep late and wake up late. 

Do you think it was just the loneliness thing or did he think the private school would have offered better academics?

Asking because I do wonder sometimes if I should look more closely at the fancy private schools. Currently I do feel like at the high school level the fancy private schools look like they can offer more for my kids academically than I can. Elementary I'm not so sold on based on what we get in our current homeschool situation. 

[Arcadia]

18 minutes ago, KSera said:

 

I have the opposite issue with my grown kids. Neither of them want kids, but both say one of the reasons is because they don’t want to homeschool their kids but don’t think it would be right to send them to school given what they know about homeschooling. 

My kids would rather that I have gone back to work when DS16 was in kindergarten. Their cousins, nephews and nieces are all public schooled. Their realm of reference is different. They don’t think they can afford to get married and have kids. 

[madteaparty]

4 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:

Edited October 14, 2022 by madteaparty

[Arcadia]

1 minute ago, Clarita said:

Do you think it was just the loneliness thing or did he think the private school would have offered better academics?

It is loneliness and identity issues. He is an introvert but he loves being in a classroom. He thinks that private schools have smaller class sizes and he would have people he could chat with. He went to math camp during summer in middle school and was very happy to be in a classroom for 6 days a week. He attended summer classes at Legend in 8th and 9th grade and looked forward to classes despite having to wake up early. 
 

As for the identity aspect, we aren’t church goers, my kids are bad at sports and so they feel they don’t have something to claim affiliation to. When they started dual enrollment, they get their student ID card with their photo and they feel a sense of belonging. When they go for volunteering activities and they answer that they take classes as XYZ community college, people automatically make conversations with them. Some people would downright tell them that they are glad their tax dollars (state tax and property tax) are put to good use (as in my kids get to take dual enrollment classes for free). 

The private schools that were the top choices when we were looking at private schools for high school was the German school which offers the IB program and Archbishop Mitty which was the most affordable option. We can’t afford Neuvo or Harker for both kids concurrently so we didn’t consider those. 

[Roadrunner]

20 minutes ago, Clarita said:

Do you think it was just the loneliness thing or did he think the private school would have offered better academics?

Asking because I do wonder sometimes if I should look more closely at the fancy private schools. Currently I do feel like at the high school level the fancy private schools look like they can offer more for my kids academically than I can. Elementary I'm not so sold on based on what we get in our current homeschool situation. 

Look at them closely for sure. 
As much as I despise our local public, there is a private jewel in town here. 

[Clarita]

11 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

As much as I despise our local public, there is a private jewel in town here. 

Yes there are several in the high school level that wow I wouldn't mind going to and do high school again. 

18 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

The private schools that were the top choices when we were looking at private schools for high school was the German school which offers the IB program and Archbishop Mitty which was the most affordable option. We can’t afford Neuvo or Harker for both kids concurrently so we didn’t consider those. 

Those I think are too far for me, but in the area that I'm interested in commuting to there are several as well. I want to go to Neuvo myself, but the commute is too far for us to consider along with $$$. 

[Arcadia]

10 minutes ago, Clarita said:

. I want to go to Neuvo myself, but the commute is too far for us to consider along with $$$. 

Neuva does require an iq evaluation for application (https://www.nuevaschool.org/admissions/iq-faq). My kids did have the WISC done in elementary school privately but not for any school application purpose.

[lewelma]

2 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

You're right. But when I say that I think I can see certain things about how kids are being socialized, I think I'm being discerning.

I suppose the judgmental part is when I think people could be doing better. Which I do, sometimes. And sometimes I'm just sad that people are struggling. It varies. 

We all do different things to help kids that struggle socially. As a child, my older boy struggled. So we made sure to give him one thing he could talk to any kid about - the most recent movies. We made sure that he saw every single one. And it allowed him to always have something to talk about even though he was intellectually so far ahead of his peers that conversation was difficult. This approach worked and was a strangely easy fix. 

[lewelma]

The other thing we did was to play D&D with him and his brother for about 6 hours per week for about 4 years.  This allowed us to teach him social skills directly but in the context of a game. Taking turns, collaboration, conflict resolution etc.  Also, a very effective approach and we definitely felt like over the years it made a very big impact.  He still has a D&D group that he plays with every week, and this summer he was in one of their weddings. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

3 minutes ago, lewelma said:

The other thing we did was to play D&D with him and his brother for about 6 hours per week for about 4 years.  This allowed us to teach him social skills directly but in the context of a game. Taking turns, collaboration, conflict resolution etc.  Also, a very effective approach and we definitely felt like over the years it made a very big impact.  He still has a D&D group that he plays with every week, and this summer he was in one of their weddings. 

I played Runescape with my kids and their online friends (ds' especially).  His friends were so impressed that a mom would play a MMORPG.  And even random players, when they found out that they were hitting on a middle aged mom (and I wasn't interested!) would end up telling me their problems because they wanted to talk to a Mom and their own mom wasn't accessible.

Computer games were a two-edged sword for us (some addiction issues) but there were good social outlets there too.  (We had sports and other "real life" social outlets as well.)

[Frances]

23 minutes ago, lewelma said:

We all do different things to help kids that struggle socially. As a child, my older boy struggled. So we made sure to give him one thing he could talk to any kid about - the most recent movies. We made sure that he saw every single one. And it allowed him to always have something to talk about even though he was intellectually so far ahead of his peers that conversation was difficult. This approach worked and was a strangely easy fix. 

We did the same with the Star War movies and the Harry Potter books. We didn’t have TV, but we made sure he saw the Star War movies.

[Frances]

2 hours ago, Arcadia said:

My kids would rather that I have gone back to work when DS16 was in kindergarten. Their cousins, nephews and nieces are all public schooled. Their realm of reference is different. They don’t think they can afford to get married and have kids. 

I think affordability for marrying and having kids varies drastically across the country. I can certainly see how your kids might think it is unaffordable living where you do. But it is also one of the most expensive places to live in the US.

[SanDiegoMom]

Loneliness and identity issues were key to our DS going to high school.  His sphere was so small and quite lopsided in personalities.  He really needed to be at a school where there was every type of kid, and where he could find similar nerdy science/math oriented kids.  But we also chose one where he could shine a little -- a couple of the schools are super competitive and this school is pretty balanced.  So, for instance, he took Calc BC as a freshman, and Calc 3 at the CC down the street.  There are about a handful of kids who took Calc 3, but it's not a huge cohort. They have a good Science Olympiad group, but they take everyone and don't have tryouts for it like at the uber-competitive school. 

We were so fortunate as to be able to know the area ahead and choose purposefully, knowing he needed peers and acceptance but doesn't thrive with competition and shuts down with too much stress. 

I have seen my ds become less quirky and more confident with school, but his twin seems to be fading and turning inward some.  She's lost her confidence while he's gained it.  Same school, same classes.  It's still the right choice, but I think she would have preferred to stay at home if she could have.  And he's thrilled to be at school.  

[Not_a_Number]

4 hours ago, SanDiegoMom said:

I have seen my ds become less quirky and more confident with school, but his twin seems to be fading and turning inward some.  She's lost her confidence while he's gained it.  Same school, same classes.  It's still the right choice, but I think she would have preferred to stay at home if she could have.  And he's thrilled to be at school. 

I've seen you post about this! Any idea what's going on? 

[Not_a_Number]

I can see how "smug" is offensive, on second thought. Maybe I should just say I feel proud when my kids can fit in. They aren't the easiest of kids and they have substantial challenges that we've helped them with, so I feel proud of having done that work. 

[Starr]

You don't really know how your kids are going to view their childhood until they are grown. Mine viewed their lives differently at different times. They both decided to keep homeschooling all along and have or are working on grad degrees. They can guess at the upsides and downsides of home education versus public school but acknowledge they don't really know what school would've been like. One of them now says they think educationally home was better but they would have read social situations better if they had been in school. I don't agree and that's okay with both of us.   Helping a child through something in elementary years does not guarantee they won't crash as teens or young adults. You can only do your best at any given moment.

[Not_a_Number]

1 hour ago, Starr said:

You don't really know how your kids are going to view their childhood until they are grown. Mine viewed their lives differently at different times. They both decided to keep homeschooling all along and have or are working on grad degrees. They can guess at the upsides and downsides of home education versus public school but acknowledge they don't really know what school would've been like. One of them now says they think educationally home was better but they would have read social situations better if they had been in school. I don't agree and that's okay with both of us.   Helping a child through something in elementary years does not guarantee they won't crash as teens or young adults. You can only do your best at any given moment.

How have their perspectives changed?

[SanDiegoMom]

18 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

I've seen you post about this! Any idea what's going on? 

I wrote that when she was having a bad day this week, but overall she is doing better.  It is a pretty big school (2400 kids) and noisy, which she doesn't like.  She went back  in 10th after zoom schooling 9th (which meant staying in comfy clothes, eating her favorite foods and drinks in comfort at home, taking easy freshman classes) and suddenly had tons of work and a stressful ballet schedule.  She struggled to maintain A's, she struggled in a studio where she's barely feeling good enough to belong, and she was too much in her shell and lacking confidence to make friends.  She would powerwalk to class and then just read books to avoid talking. And of course, she has always felt overshadowed by her brother!

This year is going better, despite her not loving it still. She is actually talking to people, she has joined ONE club, and she does not feel like she's drowning in work. She's had some good teachers, she's met enough people to finally realize that she is smart, and she's figured out how to time manage better than her brother.  So I think  the timing (14-15 year old switching from homeschooling to a giant school),  masks making it hard to connect in a new city/school, and then just her basic personality of leaning towards quiet and smaller groups of people. 

If you asked her, she would say she is glad she homeschooled and she's also glad I made her go to school.  She has friends who struggled with loneliness that continued homeschooling, and she says she is grateful that she is always being pushed outside her comfort zone socially and academically (always after the fact of course).  

She is looking at spending her last year doing a ballet program that would require homeschooling again.  We are considering it, as she will have finished math through Calc AB this year and has gotten five AP's under her belt. (We are hoping for a UC and without the SAT we assume AP tests will be more important).  I think she is happy to have experienced high school and will be happy to leave it too! Mostly just happy to leave the ages of 14 and 15 behind, lol.