How to respond to complaints from teen dd about treatment at volunteer gig

[Tap]

With my kids sometimes I told them

My opinion is xyz, I absolutely could be wrong, but from my experience this is what I think happened. I understand that from a teenage point of view, what you are wearing is really cool and shouldn't be a problem. But, teenagers aren't the clientele the program is catering too. The camp is marketed to parents (the kids are not the ones choosing/paying for camp) and the shelter is to other adults. Those are the people who come in for a few minutes, and make a decision about whether or not the children or animal is well cared for. They have limited information to go on, and the dress/mannerisms of the staff is vitally important in those first few moments. Right or wrong, 1st impressions do count, and are very hard for some people to get past. Your clothes do not change who you are on the inside. But wearing all black don't *immediately reflect your warmth, sweetness, devotion and charm either. Those are the traits that people who know you, see and love about you. But your clothes hide all of that, and people who are looking for a shelter/childcare aren't taking the time to get to know each staff. They make quick decisions based on what they see on the outside. Unfortunately, that is how the world works. Your generation may help change that, but for now, this is where we are.

[QueenCat]

1 hour ago, bolt. said:

For me, it's about the faint absurdity of trying to make a family mimic a workplace (in order to teach them how a workplace works for adults) while not noticing that that actively sabotages the goal of teaching a child how a *family* will work when they are adults.

When they become adults, having healthy family relationships bursting with love, fortified with boundaries, and populated by thriving individuals is going to be a very challenging thing to accomplish. Learning the skills and instincts to make that happen actually takes the unconditional care of your parents for the better part of two decades.

Figuring out that you can't always wear what you want and also get the results you want in a workplace or other authoritarian environment takes, like, two weeks to learn. It doesn't require a guided tour!

It's easy for me to prioritize modeling 100% on-your-side family behaviour over the completely unnecessary and counter-productive conflict-inviting option of guiding an unreceptive but neurotypical adult to a conclusion that would otherwise make itself blindingly obvious in a very short period of time.

As a parent, building skills of adult family-health-creator is both more challenging and more meaningful than building the skills of a workplace-ready young adult. It's going to impact their happiness 1000x more to be in a healthy family, even though being a successful wage earner is important for happiness too.

Sure if you can do both: give a few tips and teachings along the way, without creating a lot of hard feelings around 'not supporting' a kid who is suffering something at the hands of 'the world' -- absolutely go for it. That's great and I'm glad some families can have it both ways. On the other hand: lots of us have the kind of teens where you have to make a prioritized decision for one goal above the other. In this case that prioritization choice is a no-brainer.

AT no point did @Catwoman say that she has her "family mimic a workplace." She made sure her son was taught the appropriate skills for the workplace. And not just how to dress. This is not exclusive of helping your child be a healthy adult in a healthy family.

[kbutton]

3 hours ago, Soror said:

Both of my older ones have went through gothy phases. Ds more than dd and he is still there a bit. Even though I seriously don't care for it, at all I would have sympathy for them. It is passive aggressive as @happi duck mentioned to not have a dress code but punish people for their dress(it is one thing to have body parts showing but just wearing black?) and also the fact that none of us like to be judged based on how we look. I would complain along with her that it is crap that she has seniority and has done a good job but now they are skipping over her, that stinks.  I would empathize for them about the unfairness of it and brainstorm with them on what to do. What is more important wearing what you want or continuing in this gig/getting in line with expectations? Can they talk to the people about what they are looking for?

I think this makes sense. I have never liked arbitrary rules, and I am a pretty conservative person who is largely a rule follower. 

1 hour ago, bolt. said:

It's easy for me to prioritize modeling 100% on-your-side family behaviour over the completely unnecessary and counter-productive conflict-inviting option of guiding an unreceptive but neurotypical adult to a conclusion that would otherwise make itself blindingly obvious in a very short period of time.

For people with this view (which I tend to agree with more than not), does this still hold when a person has long passed the threshold for mature executive functioning, etc., and they are still not adulting? Asking because of a real life situation where the person who got this kind of treatment didn't meet a lot of the definitions of adulthood until at least age 40, and this person now is enabling poor decision-making in their adult parent out of loyalty to how this parent was always their safe haven. It's likely to bite at least one someone in the end, and it's already created a bad dynamic in the larger family. Someone is very likely to have to bail out the parent if she lives to a ripe old age, and it's creating a lot of reinforcement for other types of bad behavior. Is this situation unusual?

Anyway, I have a kid who could go either way (or both ways--the kind to blame me for not interfering AND blame me for not being supportive enough), but the example in the family given above gives me great pause as I contemplate how I might have to respond to things in the future. 

[athena1277]

On 6/15/2022 at 7:18 PM, Ottakee said:

I think she has the right to wear what she wants but she also needs to realize that it will affect how people view her and might affect certain job opportunities, etc.  When you are representing the church group or animal place she needs to realize that they have the right to have certain guidelines that fit their needs/desires.

A friend in college once told me, “you dress how you want people to treat you.”  I was always in jeans and T-shirts, but she would dress a little nicer when going out shopping or to a not fast food restaurant.  I have been telling my 19yo dd this for a while.  I think she finally got it when she dressed a bit nicer to give a speech in her college speech class.  Others noticed (in a good way!), including the teacher.

Edited June 17, 2022 by athena1277

[katilac]

10 hours ago, SKL said:

Maybe off topic, but the other day, one of the young women who helped us at the vet clinic had so much dark makeup on, I really didn't know what to think.  I mean like bright blue under her eyes and multiple unusual, clashing colors in her hair (and alot of other unusual fashion choices).  TBH I have always understood it to be a possible symptom of a mental health issue, when someone goes well beyond social norms to cover up or alter how they look.  I understand if you're going to a concert or something, but at a traditional job?   

Wowza. You must live in a highly conformist area if a lot of makeup and bright hair on a young person is so startling. I've seen heavy makeup, piercings, tats, wildly colored and styled hair, in many different settings. One of my mom's doctors at the ER had a punk haircut with a streak of color, a nose ring, and lots of tats. But she also had a medical degree, so it was fine. 

[Selkie]

10 hours ago, SKL said:

Maybe off topic, but the other day, one of the young women who helped us at the vet clinic had so much dark makeup on, I really didn't know what to think.  I mean like bright blue under her eyes and multiple unusual, clashing colors in her hair (and alot of other unusual fashion choices).  TBH I have always understood it to be a possible symptom of a mental health issue, when someone goes well beyond social norms to cover up or alter how they look.  I understand if you're going to a concert or something, but at a traditional job?  Something feels off.  (Not saying OP's daughter has a mental health issue, but this could possibly be something the employers wonder about.)

I live in a pretty rural area of the midwest and it is normal to see someone like that in a traditional job here. It's not just young people, either - lots of middle aged or older adults have brightly colored hair, piercings, etc. Nobody blinks an eye at it these days, as far as I know.

[Shoeless]

Since when is vet med a traditional job, lol? I've worked in vet med for ages. It's the biggest band of misfits you'll ever meet 😆

Multicolored hair would not phase me. Does she show up on time? Is she patient and kind to the animals? Does she stay calm in an emergency? Can she follow safety protocols to ensure she doesn't get bitten or an animal injured? Does she have good references? 

That's on my list of hiring criteria, not hair color and make up. 

[Clarita]

I really like the dress like your boss advice. I think the dress how you want people to treat you type advice hard to follow, because how would you know what that is.

I might be on the fringe here because I worked in "high tech" in CA. So, I would usually keep a better looking outfit in my car to change into after work. My work outfits would be a tattered pair of slip-on shoes., a pair of mid-rise boot cut jeans, and a loose polo shirt. If I had a customer meeting I had a stash of company polo shirts. My boss told me to dress nice one time for some visiting customers, after 2 days he told me please wear jeans and this company shirt for the rest of their visit. Apparently the customer made inappropriate comments about me when I was wearing business attire. 

So I think what a teen should learn in this situation is life is unfair, and people are flawed. Decide whether this is a battle you are willing to wage and lose. 

[elegantlion]

I remember when ds was younger, probably 11 or 12. We were going to a homeschooling group event and we were fairly new to the group. Ds wanted to wear his Halo tshirt. This was conservative, religious group. The only thing I said was that he would be probably be judged because of his shirt. He shrugged, wore the shirt. Parents stayed as part of this event. Sure enough, I saw him get a few judgemental glances from mothers. 

We never did make friends in that group. This was also the group where the leader started talking to me, asking if I was related to the (family of same last name) from a nearby town. I started to reply that no, we had recently moved here from halfway across the country. The leader LITERALLY walked away from me in mid-statement. I was aghast at the moment. At first I thought she had some pressing matter to attend to, but no, she just didn't want to talk to me. 

Right now, that little boy who wore the Halo shirt is job hunting. He has a full but trimmed beard and long hair. I know he wouldn't take any job that required him to shave the beard. He literally has shaved once or twice in his life. He might trim his hair but he got his father's genetics and has a rapidly receding hairline, so he wants to keep it as long as possible. Thankfully, he's in a field where none of his hair issues will probably matter. 

In a workplace environment, I think dress code should be discussed up front. In a volunteer situation, they're not employees but there should also be an agreed upon dress code, but it shouldn't be so rigid as to discount personal expression. I don't know, I think personal identity is just that, personal, especially in younger people trying to find their own selves. I worked in a corporate office in the early 90s. The few years after our office went business casual, there were always at least 2-3 men who'd show up in the same outfit - same tone of khaki pants and same color polo shirt. It kind of became the running joke in the office. Women never had that issues, our clothing choices were always more varied. 

 

[SKL]

11 hours ago, MissLemon said:

Since when is vet med a traditional job, lol? I've worked in vet med for ages. It's the biggest band of misfits you'll ever meet 😆

Multicolored hair would not phase me. Does she show up on time? Is she patient and kind to the animals? Does she stay calm in an emergency? Can she follow safety protocols to ensure she doesn't get bitten or an animal injured? Does she have good references? 

That's on my list of hiring criteria, not hair color and make up. 

Yeah I didn't act funny about it.  She spoke and acted fine in the few seconds she spent with us.  But honestly, I've never seen anyone that colored up even on TV or in movies, unless it was a zombie movie.  (The eye color was literally a whole wide, dark circle around the eyes ... new to me for sure.)  It really was extreme, especially for our area.  (I mean if this is a modern style, can someone link it for me?  Kuz I can't even find it on google.)

But funny thing, my kid only mentioned the nose ring.  "She had a nose piercing.  So you see, a nose piercing will not hurt my job prospects."

[Garga]

Our local SPCA makes you buy a tshirt with a logo and it’s required that you wear it if you’re volunteering with the animals. 

[SKL]

My kid's volunteer gig has a dress code.  No black nail polish, shorts at least x length, limit to the number of piercings, etc.  It too is a job that involves working with kids.  Honestly, the teens are not there for the purpose of expressing themselves, but for the purpose of doing their volunteer jobs.  How badly do they want this gig?  There are other times when expressing oneself can be the main purpose.

Besides learning how to dress appropriately, another life skill is learning how to express one's individuality within a dress code.  Don't we all do this at some level?

[saraha]

21 minutes ago, Garga said:

Our local SPCA makes you buy a tshirt with a logo and it’s required that you wear it if you’re volunteering with the animals. 

This place didn’t really have a handbook or anything and even changed hands while she was volunteering. The new lady presented much more professionally and all the volunteers wore clothes you would be working around bleach and poop in, tshirts and old shorts or pants, but tidy looking if you know what I mean. Dd dressed like everyone else when the new lady took over, it’s been a gradual change.