Australians - my seat is looking Green!

[LMD]

You voted with your heart, mind and conscience. That's all we can do. I'm sure there'll be a mix of good and bad, and us regular plebs will power on like we always do. 😄

[LMD]

8 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

I might post that on the local FB group. Nobody has said what kind of wind turbines we're getting.

It's not necessarily a deal breaker and that link was quite fair/positive I thought.

But yeah, at present, any machinery with moving parts uses lubricating oil and risks leaking. Which is also a concern for ocean based turbines.

[Rosie_0801]

2 minutes ago, LMD said:

It's not necessarily a deal breaker and that link was quite fair/positive I thought.

But yeah, at present, any machinery with moving parts uses lubricating oil and risks leaking. Which is also a concern for ocean based turbines.

It is. And I also find myself frustrated that there's lots of info about using fungi to clean up the inevitable bugger ups, and it still isn't routine. Maybe there's a good reason for that, but I don't know it.

[Arcadia]

12 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

It is. And I also find myself frustrated that there's lots of info about using fungi to clean up the inevitable bugger ups, and it still isn't routine. Maybe there's a good reason for that, but I don't know it.

Maybe this https://www.yesmagazine.org/environment/2019/03/05/mushrooms-clean-up-toxic-mess-including-plastic-why-arent-they-used-more
“One reason, Halula says, is that federal regulations require the removal of 100 percent of targeted contaminants within a short time frame. Current mycoremediation solutions simply work too slowly to be embraced on an industrial scale. “In nature, mushrooms break down all kinds of substances, and we’re just beginning to look at this more closely in the lab and in field studies,” she says. “But we don’t yet know the speed of the breakdown, and how effective that breakdown is.””

[Ausmumof3]

34 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

So then are you happy each time we change government, because it's reflecting God's will? Or is it sometimes God but sometimes forces of evil in the ascendancy? And how do you know which is which? 

(Thank you for patiently answering my dumb agnostic 'God is in the maths and poetry' questions!)

I do understand a bit better why you don't vote. I don't get the vibe that you mock the rest of us and/or democracy, which helps. 

I don’t so much believe in forces of evil in the sense of supernatural powers, but sometimes a human government can be evil and can still be part of a bigger plan? And sometimes things just happen because I guess.

I’m grateful to live in a time and place without authoritarianism for sure. I don’t think any human government is going to be without issues so I don’t expect perfect.  I find reading Samuels thoughts on what kings would do to the nation of Israel pretty interesting. I do dislike having a leader who uses Christianity as a brand without living up to its ideas. That’s just a feeling thing though not a belief I guess?

[YaelAldrich]

We're temporarily moving to Adelaide March 2023 for a four month Fulbright fellowship at Flinders so I am listening in so I try not to sound like a rude American when I get there!  Can't wait to meet anyone I can (my DH has to travel the country speaking so I hope we tag along (in addition to my favorite city Melbourne)).

[Rosie_0801]

12 minutes ago, YaelAldrich said:

We're temporarily moving to Adelaide March 2023 for a four month Fulbright fellowship at Flinders so I am listening in so I try not to sound like a rude American when I get there!  Can't wait to meet anyone I can (my DH has to travel the country speaking so I hope we tag along (in addition to my favorite city Melbourne)).

I'm sure I can buy you lunch some time. 🙂

Adelaide is a nice city.

[Rosie_0801]

37 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

Maybe this https://www.yesmagazine.org/environment/2019/03/05/mushrooms-clean-up-toxic-mess-including-plastic-why-arent-they-used-more
“One reason, Halula says, is that federal regulations require the removal of 100 percent of targeted contaminants within a short time frame. Current mycoremediation solutions simply work too slowly to be embraced on an industrial scale. “In nature, mushrooms break down all kinds of substances, and we’re just beginning to look at this more closely in the lab and in field studies,” she says. “But we don’t yet know the speed of the breakdown, and how effective that breakdown is.””

Fires would be less of an issue if country was burned properly. I wonder how many more hundred years it is going to take for our country to deal with this issue suitably.

[YaelAldrich]

6 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

I'm sure I can buy you lunch some time. 🙂

Adelaide is a nice city.

I'd love that!

[Melissa Louise]

36 minutes ago, YaelAldrich said:

We're temporarily moving to Adelaide March 2023 for a four month Fulbright fellowship at Flinders so I am listening in so I try not to sound like a rude American when I get there!  Can't wait to meet anyone I can (my DH has to travel the country speaking so I hope we tag along (in addition to my favorite city Melbourne)).

If you come to Sydney, Canberra or Melbourne, let me know. Adelaide is a bit far from me. Hope you have a wonderful time! 

[YaelAldrich]

2 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

If you come to Sydney, Canberra or Melbourne, let me know. Adelaide is a bit far from me. Hope you have a wonderful time! 

Hope to be at least in Sydney and Melbourne.  We're talking about doing some train travelling as well.  Open offer to everyone here: I will be thrilled to bring homeschooling (or other stuff) from the US.  I know it is expensive and hard to send stuff to Australia.  I'll offer again in February.

[bookbard]

Politician just got kicked out of his own right-leaning party for praying for an abortion ban. Makes you realise how different things are in Australia (some things anyway). Victorian MP booted from parliamentary Liberal party after praying for abortion to be banned | Victorian politics | The Guardian

3 hours ago, YaelAldrich said:

We're temporarily moving to Adelaide March 2023 for a four month Fulbright fellowship at Flinders

Oh, that's exciting! Lots of interesting places to visit in South Australia, and that's a good chunk of time to get to know the place.

[LMD]

Yeah honestly the libs here in Victoria are a mess and they have been gunning for Bernie for a loooooong time. His views aren't a surprise to any of his constituents (he spoke out fiercely back in '08) but he still kept getting elected and the factional crap is just... ugh. Don't be mistaken, this is a political/factional power play and it's been a long time coming. Nobody in the know was surprised today. With the vic Labor resignations this year & following ibac they're much the same - factional crap wise.

(I'm not a liberal party supporter but a friend is and gives me too much info haha)

[LMD]

I'm hoping to get to SA next year too, my dad is near the barossa. 💜 Otherwise, Melbourne meet 👐

[Ceilingfan]

You Aussies are a lot...nicer that we Americans are when you're talking straight politics, at least on this forum. I mean, I suspect Melissa Louise and LMD agree politically about exactly one issue, and here you are wishing each other well and finding points of agreement among the dissention. It's quite remarkable to see.

[LMD]

Thanks CeilingFan!

I suspect we all kind of 'know' and base level respect each other as people regardless of where we diverge politically. I deeply respect Melissa and assume that her political leanings/solutions are well meaning and thought through, even if I disagree with some of them. Disagreement isn't hate. Remembering that is the important part.

[Murphy101]

On 5/22/2022 at 6:28 AM, Rosie_0801 said:

https://politicalcompass.org/aus2022

This might help a little, @Jean in Newcastle

 

If we all play nicely, the thread can stand.
(If we've got anything negative to say about specific people, that belongs in the Politics group.)

Darn it. I can’t find a Purple Party for me anywhere on the planet.  And I’m probably never going to make it off planet. I suspect I’d land somewhere parallel to Green on the purple side.  

6 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Yes correct. We do pay the taxes and obey the law of the land. We also pray for the leaders to have wisdom and allow us freedom to worship in our way. We don’t vote or fight or politically campaign based on the verse in Daniel that says the lord rules in the kingdoms of men and sets up over them whomever they will and Matt where Jesus says (paraphrasing) my servants don’t fight because my kingdom is not of this world. They are linked concepts because they are both linked to a belief in not influencing the direction of history/political power but leaving it up to God. We also don’t obviously work in politics etc.

It is definitely a conscience thing for me personally not a matter of laziness or something because there’s times when I really really would have liked to vote because I’ve been unhappy about things.

You’d probably be glad we don’t vote because most would lean right if they did! I may be one of the few who doesn’t 🙂

Maybe the fine is different for state federal. It’s been a while.

My first thought was 1 Samuel 8. Poor God explaining to poor Samuel that he shouldn’t be offended that Israel was demanding he give them a king instead of his old prophet self.  Because Israel wasn’t rejecting Samuel, they were rejecting God as their king.  Ouch.

I can respect the stance to not vote based on that alone, even though I personally don’t agree with it.

[Melissa Louise]

1 hour ago, Ceilingfan said:

You Aussies are a lot...nicer that we Americans are when you're talking straight politics, at least on this forum. I mean, I suspect Melissa Louise and LMD agree politically about exactly one issue, and here you are wishing each other well and finding points of agreement among the dissention. It's quite remarkable to see. 

 

Do I want a latte sipping, poetry night utopia, with free dental, social housing and green energy? You bet! Are the other ladies evil for seeing issues with my utopia? No! 

I love these Aussie ladies. Even when I'm mad with them. They're compatriots! 

Also, I am attuned to the slightest raise of Rosie's eyebrow 🙂

 

 

 

 

[LMD]

Eta - this is a reply to Murphy. Probably the Liberal Democrats would fit there-ish, though they have some very libertarian ideas which would fit more in the green section (decriminalisation of drugs for example.) I'd also personally put the Greens higher into the red 🤐

Edited May 24, 2022 by LMD

[LMD]

Just now, Melissa Louise said:

 

Do I want a latte sipping, poetry night utopia, with free dental, social housing and green energy? You bet! Are the other ladies evil for seeing issues with my utopia? No! 

I love these Aussie ladies. Even when I'm mad with them. They're compatriots! 

Also, I am attuned to the slightest raise of Rosie's eyebrow 🙂

 

 

 

 

I'm in for the latte sipping & poetry, and I'll bring my quibbling over the semantics of the word 'free' 🤣🤣🤣

Love right back atcha 💜

[bookbard]

2 hours ago, LMD said:

Don't be mistaken, this is a political/factional power play and it's been a long time coming.

Oh yeah, I guessed it was an "excuse" not a "reason" to kick him out. I can imagine all the political stuff going on right now within parties, in all of them. 

 

11 minutes ago, LMD said:

I'm in for the latte sipping & poetry, and I'll bring my quibbling over the semantics of the word 'free' 🤣🤣🤣

 

No lattes here, but the rest sounds good - as long as it's covid safe 😉

[Melissa Louise]

I'm the purple line. Waving at the blues and purples! Maybe at the reds if any of you back Katter?!

Edited May 24, 2022 by Melissa Louise

[bookbard]

I don't really know much about Katter (except the hats), but no representatives from that party in our area. We had Labour, Liberal, Green, One Nation, Animal rights party, Liberal Democrats and the anti-vax party (informed medical? they keep changing their name). I think I've listed them in order of how well they went in our area, too. 

[Rosie_0801]

2 hours ago, Murphy101 said:

Darn it. I can’t find a Purple Party for me anywhere on the planet.  And I’m probably never going to make it off planet. I suspect I’d land somewhere parallel to Green on the purple side.  

We used to have such persons in our parliament, but times have changed. They either got voted out or migrated more totalitarian.

[Melissa Louise]

We had Labor, Greens, One Nation and UAP, and some random independent who I heard nothing about and saw nothing of. 

Nobody puts any resources into our seat, they just write it off for Labor. Rusted on. 

[Rosie_0801]

Geography can make so much difference to how we vote, and I don't think people really recognise that unless they are interested in politics and have made a significant move.

I'd still be voting Green if I'd stayed in the city, and my natural comfort zone is more to the left than they are. 

[Rosie_0801]

3 hours ago, Ceilingfan said:

You Aussies are a lot...nicer that we Americans are when you're talking straight politics, at least on this forum. I mean, I suspect Melissa Louise and LMD agree politically about exactly one issue, and here you are wishing each other well and finding points of agreement among the dissention. It's quite remarkable to see.

Melissa in Australia and I are at least as different politically as Melissa Louise and LMD, probably more, but we're still buddies. Despite living a very long day's drive apart, we live in areas with very similar voting cultures. I think we all understand how each other comes to the conclusions we do.

[Melissa Louise]

16 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Geography can make so much difference to how we vote, and I don't think people really recognise that unless they are interested in politics and have made a significant move.

I'd still be voting Green if I'd stayed in the city, and my natural comfort zone is more to the left than they are. 

This is true, but I don't like to be sneered at as 'city folk', and I hope I don't sneer at the regions. Cities have very complex problems too, and I don't really buy into the idea that if you live in a city, you're clueless, or not a real Aussie or somehow floating around in a privilege bubble. Sure, that's true for some city dwellers ( the privilege of wealth, for example) but it's far from true for most of us. Hard times happen here too, and deserve dignified answers. 

[Rosie_0801]

13 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

This is true, but I don't like to be sneered at as 'city folk', and I hope I don't sneer at the regions. Cities have very complex problems too, and I don't really buy into the idea that if you live in a city, you're clueless, or not a real Aussie or somehow floating around in a privilege bubble. Sure, that's true for some city dwellers ( the privilege of wealth, for example) but it's far from true for most of us. Hard times happen here too, and deserve dignified answers. 

No, I'm not some sort of Banjo Patterson romanticist. I grew up on the outskirts of Melbourne myself. 
What bothers me is the divide between the Greens and Nationals, who should be allies in many respects. It bothers me that the Melbourne Greens have, in the past, happily, enthusiastically and self-righteously voted to damage the Murray River, and don't know it. 

[Melissa in Australia]

42 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Melissa in Australia and I are at least as different politically as Melissa Louise and LMD, probably more, but we're still buddies. Despite living a very long day's drive apart, we live in areas with very similar voting cultures. I think we all understand how each other comes to the conclusions we do.

love you too Rosie 💖

[Melissa in Australia]

Here the choices were Nats, Labor,  Greens, One Nation  and Independent

 The seat has been Nats for over 100 years ( country party then Nats) I think it was the only region in Australia that had more votes to Nats than ever before or something along those  lines. over 70% I think 

strangely I didn't see any advertising at all , and completely forgot that we had to vote for the senate until I was in the polling booth

 

[Melissa Louise]

1 hour ago, Rosie_0801 said:

No, I'm not some sort of Banjo Patterson romanticist. I grew up on the outskirts of Melbourne myself. 
What bothers me is the divide between the Greens and Nationals, who should be allies in many respects. It bothers me that the Melbourne Greens have, in the past, happily, enthusiastically and self-righteously voted to damage the Murray River, and don't know it. 

Yes, I think the Greens are actually moving away from ideas around conservation. Not quite Bob Brown's mob any more. 

Edited May 24, 2022 by Melissa Louise

[Rosie_0801]

16 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

Yes, I think the Greens are actually moving away from ideas around conservation. Not quite Bob Brown's mob any more. 

I don't think that's the case in Melbourne. I just don't think they know the Murray very well. 

[LMD]

I think all of those observations are fair, Melissa and Rosie. I'm not a country girl by birth, and I admit I do get a bit sneery about central planning city folk (both parties!) who evidently have never done a days work, been outside, or deign to talk to people who have. Real country people probably sneer at me 😄😄 Sorry if I offended you with my too broad brush there Melissa.

But I have always been a lower class westie, and the class stuff (again, both parties!) bothers me a lot, we probably have a lot of common ground here. The safe seats where the usual votes are assumed - sometimes coerced through unions - and no one bothers to actually fix anything or even campaign.

We had lab /lib /uap/on/libdem/independent (with a weird platform!) /federation party people on our green ballot. 

[Ausmumof3]

9 hours ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Fires would be less of an issue if country was burned properly. I wonder how many more hundred years it is going to take for our country to deal with this issue suitably.

I think a significant part of the rural areas being less supportive of greens relates to historic issues over burning and fire. Also possibly firearms/vermin control stuff. 

[Ausmumof3]

1 hour ago, Melissa Louise said:

This is true, but I don't like to be sneered at as 'city folk', and I hope I don't sneer at the regions. Cities have very complex problems too, and I don't really buy into the idea that if you live in a city, you're clueless, or not a real Aussie or somehow floating around in a privilege bubble. Sure, that's true for some city dwellers ( the privilege of wealth, for example) but it's far from true for most of us. Hard times happen here too, and deserve dignified answers. 

I think the rural issue is almost global. You see it in India with the agricultural protests and France etc. it definitely was a factor in the US. In historical context is makes sense. Farming is becoming a more and more mechanised occupation and it’s being done by fewer and fewer people. We don’t get to claim the country folk think because DH has a nice steady city job. We do have friends that farm for a living and the amount of work that their kids contribute is pretty mind-boggling to me. 

[Melissa in Australia]

11 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I think a significant part of the rural areas being less supportive of greens relates to historic issues over burning and fire. Also possibly firearms/vermin control stuff. 

I think it is a long list, burning and fire management is a big issue and is interconnected with

 logging

 farming

 water use

living in rural areas

 using wood to heat houses

the general lifestyle of rural areas really

 in this particular area greens have caused a lot of job loss. there is a huge amount of animosity locally 

they even want a lot of people more rural than me to leave, they want to turn a large area into national parks connecting a few national parks together to make a great big one and would like the people to shift out. Doesn't really help locals to understand them at all really 

[Rosie_0801]

11 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said:

I think it is a long list, burning and fire management is a big issue 

Does Bruce Pascoe's work on burning have any impact down your way? I've been meaning to ask since dd and I read his and Bill Gammage's book last year.

[Melissa in Australia]

I haven't heard about him, will look him up later when I have a moment. 

[Melissa in Australia]

11 hours ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Does Bruce Pascoe's work on burning have any impact down your way? I've been meaning to ask since dd and I read his and Bill Gammage's book last year.

I looked him up,

 I don't know if his work on burning has any impact locally. There have always been burn offs here.  when there was logging all the logging coops were burned when they were logged out as part of the regeneration process ( gum trees release seeds and they germinate with smoke). And the rest of the bush is burned systematically in sections, more emphasis on areas around towns for bushfire  protection.

In the year or so before the 2020 fires it was too dry to do any planned burn offs at all. and in the few years before that head office in Melb I believe dictated a specific amount of hectares that had to be burned  state wide each year. which fire management found frustrating as some areas were burned unnecessarily and other areas were skipped to meet the specific target. 

During the 2020 fires. I saw at a town meeting the map of all the bush overlaid with the year it was burned off. it was very very interesting,. there was only one very very small area that hadn't been burned since a bushfire in 1930s. and it didn't burn during the 2020 fire- wet rainforest. The thing is that usually burned off bush provides bushfire protection for at least 5 years, but in the 2020 fires the bush was the driest it had ever been since records were kept. the soil moisture level was the same as a reading in the Mallie in midsummer- lower than the wildfire scientist's locally had ever seen. the wildfire scientist's locally predicted 2 days before the fires what areas would be burned. he was out by 500 metres ( amazing ). Everything that he said would go did. no burn off , even recent ones could stop a fire under those conditions.

even locals - not greens-  have lobbied to reduce burn offs in spring - when animals have babies, especially birds. plus the weather in autumn is less windy so the burn offs don't get away as much- but it does mean that us locals have thick  smoke for 3 months of the year. Which tourists complain about bitterly.

 Even in the 2020 bushfires, when we had town meetings about the fires coming there was a crazy person screaming and yelling that it is all the fault of fire management for having burn offs. 

 

Here is a study written by the local wildfire scientests https://www.ffm.vic.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0017/21059/Report-51-Effectiveness-of-Broadscale-Fuel-Reduction-Burning-in-Assisting-With-Wildfire-Control-in-Parks-.pdf   I personally know Greg McCarthy , the co author. he is a world recognized expert on wildfires. He was the one that showed me the burn off maps and was the adviser that predicted within 500 meters where the fires would go to on that terrible New Years day 

Edited May 25, 2022 by Melissa in Australia