Oh boy, I am crashing hard today.

[Soror]

I felt this very, very heavily in December. Just too tired to deal with it anymore. Not in the mood for another crappy thing to happen. Then guilt and bad feelings b/c my optimistic realism has turned to pessimism- it's a horrible cycle. It has just been 4 years of crap and the last 1.5 yrs of really crappy. Sometimes there isn't a bright side. Some things are objectively bad. I am past trusting that people will "get" what I'm going through and have little trust to share with others anyway (I've shared way more on here than IRL and it has only been a fraction of it). I want to throat punch those always turning everything into this happy jolly thing when it isn't. I cried myself to sleep on Christmas Eve. But some point I started feeling better. IDK  how/why and am trying not to think about things going bad again. I'm just trying to do everything I know is a help now and hope to keep it at bay.

[Noreen Claire]

I am right there with you, @Jenny in Florida. The last two years have been hard enough, but I was already not quite right pre-pandemic; add to that going into menopause and all the hormone swings that go with it and, well, it's been rough. I spent the other day on the couch, cycling through bouts of tears and absolute panic, and no real idea why. There are so many things I want or need to do, but I just can't bring myself to even start. I've been bingeing Downton Abbey the last week in an effort to hide from life. Gah. 

I've never been officially diagnosed, but I am definitely going to bring it up with my doctor at my physical in March. 

[EmilyGF]

I felt that way last winter and don't feel that way this winter. One really important change for me was changing the people I was friends with. I no longer spend time with local stay-at-home-moms. We never clicked and it turns out that spending time with them was making me feel hopeless, like I'd never have good friends again.

Instead, I reached out to native Californians and people who studied math/science. I have three good friends now. One is a 70-something OB-Gyn, another is an analyst, and the third is a Californian who teaches college writing. Our kids don't play together and we spend time together on evenings or weekends. It was a paradigm shift to drop at my SAHM activities. But it made a huge difference.

That might not be at all helpful for you, but I hope the fact that last winter seemed hopeless and this one doesn't is encouraging.

Emily

[Jenny in Florida]

30 minutes ago, Soror said:

Then guilt and bad feelings b/c my optimistic realism has turned to pessimism- it's a horrible cycle. 

I feel this deeply, too.

My entire adult life, I have been the person who said her core belief was that "Things usually work out." When faced with an obstacle or disappointment, I would very quickly turn my attention to how I was going to get around or compensate for it. "What's next? What can I/we do instead?" I said I didn't regret anything, that I was grateful for every crappy experience because it had all made me who I was and led me to where I was.

And then . . . it went away. I just ran out of steam.

And I lost my ability to believe that I was grateful for everything that brought me here . . . because I really don't like where I am. 

And, yes, I feel like I'm letting everyone down by not being the person I'm expected to be. And I feel like I'm letting myself down by "wallowing" in this depression and wasting the time I have left to accomplish things.

But then I also can't work up the energy to actually change anything.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

I'm right there with you @Jenny in Florida. Sending lots of gentle hugs.

I struggle everyday just to get dressed and find the motivation to leave the house. Luckily, I have been painting, reading, and making valentines for elder care patients and that 'justifies' staying home. I also have insomnia and average 4-6 hours of sleep a night. I can't tell you the last time I slept a full 8 hours. I've been watching the Australian Open and binging the Harry Potter movies through the nights. When I do go out, I find my reflexes are slower and there is a bit of brain fog. Every single thing is met with self-doubt and questions. My inner voice is being naughty and constantly reminds me of failures and injustices real and imagined, and ruminates over things from 35 years ago. When I do sleep, my dreams are disturbing, replaying old struggles with people who have either passed away or no longer in my life. I wake up with feelings of anxiety, loss, and sadness.

I would just like a bit of mental rest but I don't know how to find it because, only working 4 hours a week and remaining home the majority of the time, rest is all I really seem to have.

 

[Soror]

51 minutes ago, Jenny in Florida said:

I feel this deeply, too.

My entire adult life, I have been the person who said her core belief was that "Things usually work out." When faced with an obstacle or disappointment, I would very quickly turn my attention to how I was going to get around or compensate for it. "What's next? What can I/we do instead?" I said I didn't regret anything, that I was grateful for every crappy experience because it had all made me who I was and led me to where I was.

And then . . . it went away. I just ran out of steam.

And I lost my ability to believe that I was grateful for everything that brought me here . . . because I really don't like where I am. 

And, yes, I feel like I'm letting everyone down by not being the person I'm expected to be. And I feel like I'm letting myself down by "wallowing" in this depression and wasting the time I have left to accomplish things.

But then I also can't work up the energy to actually change anything.

My belief was that even when things are bad something good would come from it. Bad things don't last. There is a reason and/or purpose for these things. Quickly turning things around and problem solving- how do I fix this- how do I turn it into a positive- very short periods if grief/sadness if I took time to feel it at all. 

But the whole foundation was just lies. I pushed myself entirely too hard after the house burned. All the stresses after that when I never took the time to recover/grieve just built up. And I continued to push myself after every crappy thing. When the kids first went to school the flood gates opened and no one got it. Then more crappy things. I'm worn out from the idea that woman are supposed to take care of everything. Be all the support. Blah. Blah. Blah. But my dh is beyond stressed himself. We're held together with duct tape right now.

I tried to do a gratitude journal. I think I made it 3 days. I exercise and try my best to eat well, try to get outside, take my vitamins. I desperately need to make some IRL connections but I've yet been able to force myself to do that. I know it is very not good to isolate myself but I do.

[Ceilingfan]

I know you don't want advice, but it's not like "get out in the sun more" advice so I'm going to say it anyway.

I'd switch (or add) therapists, and I'd look for one who does depth psychology - psychoanalysis, or Jungian analysis. I don't think this is an issue you're going to solve with more positive thinking or coping strategies or CBT stuff.

[Jenny in Florida]

@Ceilingfan I did switch therapists a few months ago after getting frustrated with a series of counselors and two psychiatrists. I researched who was available on my insurance and interviewed the three who looked most promising. I like the person I'm working with now, in large part because she is the first one I've worked with who seemed to "get" me, to be respectful of my intelligence and my tendency to do my own research and come into sessions with some pre-existing knowledge/understanding. 

Much of what is making me unhappy is out of my control and is unlikely to change. So, I was very clear when I went through this transition that I needed someone who would focus on helping me learn to accept and live with my issues, rather than ignore/solve/put a good face on them.

Edited January 27, 2022 by Jenny in Florida

[regentrude]

1 hour ago, Soror said:

My belief was that even when things are bad something good would come from it. Bad things don't last. There is a reason and/or purpose for these things.

But the whole foundation was just lies.

Yep. Whoever invented this point of view must have had a very sheltered life.

And the "reason/purpose" rationalizing makes me just want to puke. It's also incredibly dismissive. There is no f'ing purpose to bad crap happening to folks.

Edited January 27, 2022 by regentrude

[Carol in Cal.]

3 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Yep. Whoever invented this point of view must have had a very sheltered life.

And the "reason/purpose" rationalizing makes me just want to puke. It's also incredibly dismissive. There is no f'ing purpose to bad crap happening to folks.

Yes, if someone says “Everything happens for a reason” to me they get an earful.  It’s A). Untrue, and B). Rude, and C) Dismissive, and D) Unsympathetic.

[Scarlett]

37 minutes ago, Jenny in Florida said:

@Ceilingfan I did switch therapists a few months ago after getting frustrated with a series of counselors and two psychiatrists. I researched who was available on my insurance and interviewed the three who looked most promising. I like the person I'm working with now, in large part because she is the first one I've worked with who seemed to "get" me, to be respectful of my intelligence and my tendency to do my own research and come into sessions with some pre-existing knowledge/understanding. 

Much of what is making me unhappy is out of my control and is unlikely to change. So, I was very clear when I went through this transition that I needed someone who would focus on helping me learn to accept and live with my issues, rather than ignore/solve/put a good face on them.

Same.  It is the reason I have not gone to therapy.  I mean....what is the point.  

[DreamerGirl]

Hugs @Jenny in Florida

[fairfarmhand]

32 minutes ago, Jenny in Florida said:

@Ceilingfan I did switch therapists a few months ago after getting frustrated with a series of counselors and two psychiatrists. I researched who was available on my insurance and interviewed the three who looked most promising. I like the person I'm working with now, in large part because she is the first one I've worked with who seemed to "get" me, to be respectful of my intelligence and my tendency to do my own research and come into sessions with some pre-existing knowledge/understanding. 

Much of what is making me unhappy is out of my control and is unlikely to change. So, I was very clear when I went through this transition that I needed someone who would focus on helping me learn to accept and live with my issues, rather than ignore/solve/put a good face on them.

 

24 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Yep. Whoever invented this point of view must have had a very sheltered life.

And the "reason/purpose" rationalizing makes me just want to puke. It's also incredibly dismissive. There is no f'ing purpose to bad crap happening to folks.

Yes. I am a Christian. And I believe that sometimes rotten crap is just rotten crap. And we have to learn to put up with rotten crap. Day after day. 

No matter what, my mom and my fil died way too young. Has good come out of it? I don't know. And honestly, I have times where I think, what good could possible have outweighed that loss? It doesn't make any sense. 

It's total crap that my kids do not remember my mother the way I do. Brain cancer stole her personality years before she died. I watched my dad age during those 12 years. 

It's crap crap crap.

So many things just don't make sense.

So I try to focus on some of the beautiful moments. And then there are days where I just wallow in the crappiness of it. 

[Ceilingfan]

What drew me to my current therapist (after leaving a year and a half or so of CBT/trauma therapy, which was ok but had its limit) was that the modality claims not to make people happier, or even to solve problems, but to make you more known to yourself and possibly to make your life more interesting.   All the rest of it - "you'll have insights so you can change and changing will make you more happy and less stressed and etc." just seemed like hogwash, tbh, and also (after a year and a half) was just not that interesting. I figured if I'm going to pay $$$ to talk to someone once or twice a week, I'd at least like the process to be interesting.

[Melissa Louise]

2 hours ago, Ceilingfan said:

What drew me to my current therapist (after leaving a year and a half or so of CBT/trauma therapy, which was ok but had its limit) was that the modality claims not to make people happier, or even to solve problems, but to make you more known to yourself and possibly to make your life more interesting.   All the rest of it - "you'll have insights so you can change and changing will make you more happy and less stressed and etc." just seemed like hogwash, tbh, and also (after a year and a half) was just not that interesting. I figured if I'm going to pay $$$ to talk to someone once or twice a week, I'd at least like the process to be interesting.

Ha, this. (Do you listen to This Jungian Life podcast?)

[Melissa Louise]

Jenny didn't ask for advice so this here isn't advice, just a personal story. 

Bibliotherapy was a point of change for me. It helped with the existential aspects of depression. 

Here's another personal story. Hang on, if you can, to humour, even if it's very dark, because humour can save your life. I was walking home from the supermarket one day, with chicken. I cross a bridge on my way. I was in the middle of a depression exacerbation anyway, and suddenly, the answer seemed very much like jumping off the bridge. Oh yes, I thought, about time to get on with it. I put down the grocery bags. Nobody coming or going on the path. 

But hold on, said a little voice - the chicken! You can't leave it behind! And then in my mind's eye I saw the whole scene, as if directed by some zany director, just me and the chicken floating side by side  in the river - and I laughed out loud at how absurd an end it would be! 

I walked home. We ate the chicken for dinner. Thank God for a brain that held on to humour. 

It's not possible,of course, for all brains hacked by depression to retain humour...but if you can...

 

 

 

[Scarlett]

26 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

 

Here's another personal story. Hang on, if you can, to humour, even if it's very dark, because humour can save your life. I was walking home from the supermarket one day, with chicken. I cross a bridge on my way. I was in the middle of a depression exacerbation anyway, and suddenly, the answer seemed very much like jumping off the bridge. Oh yes, I thought, about time to get on with it. I put down the grocery bags. Nobody coming or going on the path. 

But hold on, said a little voice - the chicken! You can't leave it behind! And then in my mind's eye I saw the whole scene, as if directed by some zany director, just me and the chicken floating side by side  in the river - and I laughed out loud at how absurd an end it would be! 

I walked home. We ate the chicken for dinner. Thank God for a brain that held on to humour. 

It's not possible,of course, for all brains hacked by depression to retain humour...but if you can...

 

 

 

I am not sure what it says about my current state of mind, but I found that hilarious.

[Jenny in Florida]

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

I am not sure what it says about my current state of mind, but I found that hilarious.

Meanwhile, all I could think was, "Well, I really am in trouble, because I'm a vegan. No chicken dinner is going to see me through to another day."

[Melissa Louise]

7 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I am not sure what it says about my current state of mind, but I found that hilarious.

Correct response! It's funny, in a dark, absurd way. 

[Melissa Louise]

7 minutes ago, Jenny in Florida said:

Meanwhile, all I could think was, "Well, I really am in trouble, because I'm a vegan. No chicken dinner is going to see me through to another day."

That's funny!

Hope it's a better day, and if not, that it passes quickly..

[Ceilingfan]

2 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:

Ha, this. (Do you listen to This Jungian Life podcast?)

I do on occasion; I'm in Jungian analysis. Sometimes if I read Jung or listen to/read Jungian thought, I get really resistant to the analytic process (and my analyst), so I'm selective about it.

It is a great modality! A little woo, but everything non-CBT is a little woo in one way or another.

[cougarmom4]

15 hours ago, Jenny in Florida said:

I just ran out of steam…..

I also can't work up the energy to actually change anything.

I can so relate to these two comments, Jenny. 

I am at a very dark and low place right now, too. I’ve struggled for years and gone through all the guilt-inducing negative thought processes, too. Deep down I feel that the root to all of this (at least for me) isn’t even depression…I think my depression is the result of feeling physically exhausted and emotionally completely worn out for so many years…running out of steam, as you said. And then feeling so guilty for not being able to get my lazy self out of the dang bed and do all the things I want to be doing!

If I could just find a doctor who will really listen to me and do more than jump to a prescription. 

I did want to mention an audiobook that I just started that I’m hopeful will bring a bit of upward momentum. “Your Happiness Toolkit: 16 Strategies for Overcoming Depression” by Carrie M. Wrigley. I’m only on chapter two, so I can’t guarantee yet that it’s not going to be full of “just choose to be happy” crap, but so far it’s about developing strategies to get thru this.

[ktgrok]

6 hours ago, cougarmom4 said:

 

I think my depression is the result of feeling physically exhausted and emotionally completely worn out for so many years…running out of steam, as you said. And then feeling so guilty for not being able to get my lazy self out of the dang bed and do all the things I want to be doing!

 

I will never forget being tired and crabby and unhappy and depressed and just too exhausted to deal with life, and complaining to my midwife about it. I explained that I had done everything you were supposed to do when you have no energy - I'd increased my exercise, got up early to get more sun in the morning, spent time outdoors in nature, etc etc etc. 

She stared at me and said, quiet kindly, but like when speaking to a small child, "have you tried resting more?"

I blinked and said, "um, no."

She shook her head and said, "sometimes when you are low on energy it means you need to rest. It is the body asking for more rest. Try naps."

I felt so silly, that in my head I'd never once considered actually honoring the exhaustion (mental and physical, as I was sleeping poorly at night as well as under stress) rather than trying to fight it our outwit it somehow. 

[Jenny in Florida]

7 hours ago, cougarmom4 said:

I think my depression is the result of feeling physically exhausted and emotionally completely worn out for so many years…running out of steam, as you said. And then feeling so guilty for not being able to get my lazy self out of the dang bed and do all the things I want to be doing!

I discussed with my therapist recently that I had been thinking about the literal meaning of the word "exhausted." We all use it to mean tired, but to me it describes feeling used up, empty . . . which is how I feel most of the time.

[Carol in Cal.]

5 hours ago, ktgrok said:

I will never forget being tired and crabby and unhappy and depressed and just too exhausted to deal with life, and complaining to my midwife about it. I explained that I had done everything you were supposed to do when you have no energy - I'd increased my exercise, got up early to get more sun in the morning, spent time outdoors in nature, etc etc etc. 

She stared at me and said, quiet kindly, but like when speaking to a small child, "have you tried resting more?"

I blinked and said, "um, no."

She shook her head and said, "sometimes when you are low on energy it means you need to rest. It is the body asking for more rest. Try naps."

I felt so silly, that in my head I'd never once considered actually honoring the exhaustion (mental and physical, as I was sleeping poorly at night as well as under stress) rather than trying to fight it our outwit it somehow. 

Having a cat was huge for me in that she would just curl up and sleep whenever she felt like it; whereas I acted like I needed, I dunno, permission or an illness or something.  When I was exhausted I might go to bed early but NEVER nap.  When I started napping when I really needed it once in a while, I had a much happier life.  Of course, my mother was very scornful when she heard about this from DH.  But hey whatever.