We need 1 more math credit

[lynn]

We have algebra 1 and 2 and geometry.  She's done well.  Right now she's not interested in college, we are finding her direction.  What do you suggest for  4th math credit to finish up high school.

[Zoo Keeper]

Consumer Mathematics or Stats. 

[cintinative]

14 minutes ago, lynn said:

Right now she's not interested in college, we are finding her direction. 

Normally, if a kid doesn't want to go to college, the recommendation is consumer mathematics or stats. However, you said she did "well" in Alg 1, Geo, and Alg II and "right now, she's not interested in college" and that is giving me pause. Is there a small chance she could go for something in college later that might require a higher level of math?  

 

[EKS]

Statistics.  If she has a solid foundation, she can always take precalculus in college if she ends up deciding to go.

[Farrar]

I'd also be hesitant to do consumer math (which is honestly a remedial level course most of the time) with a kid who did fine with Algebra II material. Unless there's a reason to do make school as a whole significantly easier, I'd do statistics because it has the potential to provide a stronger foundation.

[AEC]

+1 for Stats.

 

Honestly...I wish we made all HS kids take it as part of their 'be a functioning adult' education. Knowing enough stats to be able to tell when someone is trying to pull one over on you (using mean when what you should care about is median), understand where 'polling margin of error' comes from, or make decent decisions in board games with dice should be considered a life skill, IMO.

Edited December 16, 2021 by AEC

[Roadrunner]

Another vote for stats.  You will never read news articles that cite studies the same again. 

 I also agree that  it's an essential course to have as part of math education. 

[Kassia]

Another vote for statistics!  It's such an important class that will be used for life!  

[kirstenhill]

My DD who is not a fan of math in general loves statistics. I agree with everyone else that it's a class worth taking.  

[Aliqout]

Statistics is a good option, but so are number theory, probability, and "pre-calculus", which despite its name covers plenty of stuff that is very useful in own right (trigonometry and analytic geometry). 

[EKS]

@AliqoutI love your user name!

Edited December 21, 2021 by EKS

[Lori D.]

Accounting/Bookkeeping can be very useful if going straight into real life rather than college, and it counts as a Math credit.

ALEKS (secular)
Schoolhouse Teachers (secular)
AO Lifepacs, (Christian)
etc.

[Junie]

Does she need a fourth math course?  I believe that many schools only require 3.

[Lori D.]

19 hours ago, Junie said:

Does she need a fourth math course?  I believe that many schools only require 3.

I believe OP is referring to high school graduation requirements.

But you're absolutely right, that many colleges only require 3 math credits for admission.

[deBij]

I might get some slack for this, but as I get higher with my kids' math education, the more I question to relevance of much of it. 

I have an engineering degree, so I know where it leads, but for the vast majority of the students, higher math is time spend on material they will never use in real life. 

In their adult life, these kids need confidence in making good financial decisions and ability to assess risk.  

I recommend real-life math for everyone.

Real Life Math:
- Consumer Math
- Probability and Statistics with real life applications
- Accounting
- Spreadsheets (Excel)  Necessary for mortgage payment schedule; retirement planning, etc.

 

P.S.  I do value the application of logic in higher math, and most of the kids will go through all the levels, but every of my kids will learn real life math.

 

[prairiewindmomma]

Stats.

[Farrar]

On 12/26/2021 at 12:52 PM, Lori D. said:

I believe OP is referring to high school graduation requirements.

But you're absolutely right, that many colleges only require 3 math credits for admission.

That requirement is a bottom basement floor and virtually every college will expect to see four years. While a student who is overall pretty strong in other areas can get away with 3 social studies or sciences sometimes, I would never ever suggest that a student who even might apply to a 4 year college do only 3 years of math or English. 

Since the OP's student isn't likely college bound, they could make a different decision, but it does sound like they're keeping options open so I would just do it. Homeschoolers set their graduation requirements in the vast majority of states, so I'm not sure if that's what she meant or not. In some states you do have to follow some state graduation rules.

Edited December 29, 2021 by Farrar

[Lori D.]

1 hour ago, Farrar said:

That requirement is a bottom basement floor and virtually every college will expect to see four years. While a student who is overall pretty strong in other areas can get away with 3 social studies or sciences sometimes, I would never ever suggest that a student who even might apply to a 4 year college do only 3 years of math or English...

Agreeing I've never seen a college requiring less than 3 English credits.

Not so with Math. While it was about 5 years ago, when I was doing some intensive college searches to help local homeschoolers, this was not the case -- a number of colleges only required math up through Alg. 2, and in fact, a few small LACs only required Algebra I and Geometry. That absolutely surprised me.

Perhaps the college's location in the U.S. makes a difference? I could see east coast schools requiring more rigorous credits.

Edited December 29, 2021 by Lori D.

[NittanyJen]

I agree with stats (caveat: I teach AP stats, so I’m not exactly unbiased). 

Everybody interacts with statistics at some level, from the job market to being an informed consumer to being a critical consumer of media, advertising, and literature, to understanding what probabilities actually mean, and understanding, at at least an introductory level, what types of conclusions can and CANNOT be drawn from a survey or an experiment.

Beyond meeting a graduation requirement or getting a leg up on a possible future attempt at college (many majors from STEM fields to the liberal arts require at least one stats course these days), spending a year on statistics means spending a year on a course that results in becoming a much more informed citizen in everyday life— it’s a math course where the student never needs to ask, “When will I ever need to use this?”

 

 

[Aliqout]

On 12/28/2021 at 11:25 AM, deBij said:

I might get some slack for this, but as I get higher with my kids' math education, the more I question to relevance of much of it. 

I have an engineering degree, so I know where it leads, but for the vast majority of the students, higher math is time spend on material they will never use in real life. 

In their adult life, these kids need confidence in making good financial decisions and ability to assess risk.  

I recommend real-life math for everyone.

Real Life Math:
- Consumer Math
- Probability and Statistics with real life applications
- Accounting
- Spreadsheets (Excel)  Necessary for mortgage payment schedule; retirement planning, etc.

 

P.S.  I do value the application of logic in higher math, and most of the kids will go through all the levels, but every of my kids will learn real life math.

 

It depends on what you see the core purpose of a pre-college education to be. If you think the driving focus should be on  narrowly defined career readiness, then you are right, there is little need for most to go very far in math (even most engineers only need to know how to calculate things). If you belive in a liberal education (liberal as in the classical sense, not in the modern American political sense), that has a goal of producing productive and empowered citizens instead of a democracy than the picture looks different.  

Our public education system has been modeled on the liberal model but has been failing. It has shown to be more able to achieve good results when career focused.. In other words I don't know whether your misgivings are right or wrong...I countiue to teach my kids higher math, because they like it, and to keep all their options open as adults. 

[deBij]

On 1/9/2022 at 11:43 AM, Aliqout said:

It depends on what you see the core purpose of a pre-college education to be. If you think the driving focus should be on  narrowly defined career readiness, then you are right, there is little need for most to go very far in math (even most engineers only need to know how to calculate things). If you belive in a liberal education (liberal as in the classical sense, not in the modern American political sense), that has a goal of producing productive and empowered citizens instead of a democracy than the picture looks different.  

Our public education system has been modeled on the liberal model but has been failing. It has shown to be more able to achieve good results when career focused.. In other words I don't know whether your misgivings are right or wrong...I countiue to teach my kids higher math, because they like it, and to keep all their options open as adults. 

I like the idea of a liberal education.  It is harder to teach then a STEM education.   I don't think there is time to learn/teach everything.

I think if the most important math for people who aren't going to study advanced math, is to understand personal finance.  Understanding personal finance is critical in achieving financial freedom.

 

[alisha]

Do you all who recommended stats have a suggested curriculum? I haven't been able to find too much.

[NittanyJen]

1 hour ago, alisha said:

Do you all who recommended stats have a suggested curriculum? I haven't been able to find too much.

Well, I recommend my course over at PA Homeschoolers, of course 😉

But if AP is just not your thing, or if it’s not in your budget, the textbook author I use writes an on-level (non-AP) textbook— look for “Statistics and. Probability with Applications for High School” by Starnes and Tabor.