How have you taught a foreign language successfully without a curriculum?

[MomN]

I've tried textbooks and they haven't worked for us.  I speak Spanish so it should be easy for me to teach it to my dc but it isn't.  I think the main issue is that we have so much on our plates that learning Spanish has always been pushed to the side.  I am wondering how some of you have more naturally incorporated a second language into your day.  Do you tackle vocabulary first?  Like start with colors and numbers and food? Or do you start with essential phrases and then add in vocabulary weekly?  Any ideas are appreciated!

 

 

[Matryoshka]

21 minutes ago, MomN said:

I've tried textbooks and they haven't worked for us.  I speak Spanish so it should be easy for me to teach it to my dc but it isn't.  I think the main issue is that we have so much on our plates that learning Spanish has always been pushed to the side.  I am wondering how some of you have more naturally incorporated a second language into your day.  Do you tackle vocabulary first?  Like start with colors and numbers and food? Or do you start with essential phrases and then add in vocabulary weekly?  Any ideas are appreciated!

It sounds like the problem isnt' the textbook but fitting things in.  I had the same problem (am also fluent in Spanish but it would get put aside) so I offered to teach it to a friend's kid as well.  They showed up, we did Spanish, it got done.  I did it for free, as really it was no extra work than for my own kids, because if their friend came and it was 'Spanish time' they didn't grumble or procrastinate (also prevented me from procrastination), so actually it was less work and less stress.  Also forced me to prepare (this is where a text does come in handy - you can just open to the next lesson).  You can riff on it from there.  We also did things like the 'verb game' where you roll a die with various subject pronouns and have to conjugate a verb based on what you roll.

When they were younger, I did more exposure like songs and if they got any cartoons I'd have them in a foreign language (we actually did two FLs).

Edited October 9, 2021 by Matryoshka

[madteaparty]

There’s nothing natural about learning, well, anything, in my house. But for example DD’s daily 30 min of TV are in French. I play french music in the car or the CD of a French book and she follows along with the physical book (sometimes. She’s not super cooperative). 

[EmilyGF]

Nope. I speak German and have brought my oldest three up to understanding, but not speaking. And they all disliked it because I generally overwhelmed them. For a year or two I spoke German at home, but then we had various issues come up (extreme stutter was one). I've stopped with #4 because he hated it more than the oldest three and it just wasn't worth it.

We had a lot more success, fun, and joy learning Spanish with a curriculum. I think that it helped that I had to slow down to learn it.  

You could look at how Celeste Cruz teaches Italian or at Talk Box or Kids' Stuff Spanish. 

@Matryoshka is right about the time slot. And I agree with @madteaparty that you have to make a point of things or it won't happen. And my fourth gets very overwhelmed by anything he can't do perfectly, so learning a second language via immersion goes over like a lead balloon, even though I had some success with my older three. (And he is more stubborn than them.)

You

Emily

[Not_a_Number]

I do everything without a curriculum, so DD9 currently doesn't have a Russian curriculum. 

What we did is "limited immersion." I'd pick half an hour every single day during which everything happened in Russian, and I'd also make sure to keep reinforcing things they already knew. 

I tend to start out with nouns referring to things around us, so it's easy to have conversation. We build up on top of that. I don't think there's a precise sequence one has to follow. 

2 years in and DD9 speaks almost fluently and understands like 80% of spoken language. She's also not resentful about this at all -- mind you, she did ASK to learn Russian, but the fact that it's not overwhelming helps a lot, I'm sure. 

DD9 also loves reading and writing, so we did wind up teaching her to read and write. So currently, a lot of her Russian work is written. (We're taking an unschooling break for the year, so we can't do as much immersion, anyway.) I don't know when one would normally introduce that -- DD9 is gifted and found learning to read a new alphabet absolutely trivial. 

Edited October 9, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[JennyD]

On 10/9/2021 at 11:30 AM, Matryoshka said:

It sounds like the problem isnt' the textbook but fitting things in.  I had the same problem (am also fluent in Spanish but it would get put aside) so I offered to teach it to a friend's kid as well.  They showed up, we did Spanish, it got done.  I did it for free, as really it was no extra work than for my own kids, because if their friend came and it was 'Spanish time' they didn't grumble or procrastinate (also prevented me from procrastination), so actually it was less work and less stress.  Also forced me to prepare (this is where a text does come in handy - you can just open to the next lesson).  You can riff on it from there.  We also did things like the 'verb game' where you roll a die with various subject pronouns and have to conjugate a verb based on what you roll.

When they were younger, I did more exposure like songs and if they got any cartoons I'd have them in a foreign language (we actually did two FLs).

Unrelated, but Matryoshka, I am stalking you -- I am trying to send you a PM but it says you can't receive messages.  Is there any chance your mailbox might be full?

Sorry, OP, for barging into your thread!

[MomN]

1 hour ago, JennyD said:

Sorry, OP, for barging into your thread!

No worries!

[Matryoshka]

1 hour ago, JennyD said:

Unrelated, but Matryoshka, I am stalking you -- I am trying to send you a PM but it says you can't receive messages.  Is there any chance your mailbox might be full?

Sorry, OP, for barging into your thread!

LOL, yes, my inbox is chronically getting filled up without my realizing it!  It has space now!

[HomeAgain]

Ds11 started French with a monthly book program when he was 6 or so.  They'd send a story, activity book, and link to the audio.  It was just beginning words injected into an English story, and as they progressed more vocab would be rotated through.

We tried Nallenart after that, but it was slow. Even after adding Telefrancais, ds needed something stronger as a spine.

Last year we began using books from Fluency Matters. Each book has a set amount of vocabulary that it's built around, so the books for beginners have less unique words than books for advanced.  We moved from that to phonic readers I bought on Amazon.fr and a kindergarten/1st grade workbook.  Ds worked up to where he was able to complete various lessons in French at a 6yo level.  Like, I built an entire week around The Very Hungry Caterpillar and did the entire thing in French/5-In-A-Row pattern.  We'd watch it on youtube each day, do an activity, he'd do a worksheet sometimes..

This year, we're doing more with a Scholastic Easy French Reader and the French workbook.  The best part about the reader is it has the same stories he's doing in IEW and history, so he has a good background to figure out unknown words.

[MomN]

2 hours ago, HomeAgain said:

Ds11 started French with a monthly book program when he was 6 or so.  They'd send a story, activity book, and link to the audio.  It was just beginning words injected into an English story, and as they progressed more vocab would be rotated through.

We tried Nallenart after that, but it was slow. Even after adding Telefrancais, ds needed something stronger as a spine.

Last year we began using books from Fluency Matters. Each book has a set amount of vocabulary that it's built around, so the books for beginners have less unique words than books for advanced.  We moved from that to phonic readers I bought on Amazon.fr and a kindergarten/1st grade workbook.  Ds worked up to where he was able to complete various lessons in French at a 6yo level.  Like, I built an entire week around The Very Hungry Caterpillar and did the entire thing in French/5-In-A-Row pattern.  We'd watch it on youtube each day, do an activity, he'd do a worksheet sometimes..

This year, we're doing more with a Scholastic Easy French Reader and the French workbook.  The best part about the reader is it has the same stories he's doing in IEW and history, so he has a good background to figure out unknown words.

This is very helpful! Thank you!

[Renai]

On 10/9/2021 at 11:11 AM, Not_a_Number said:

I do everything without a curriculum, so DD9 currently doesn't have a Russian curriculum. 

What we did is "limited immersion." I'd pick half an hour every single day during which everything happened in Russian, and I'd also make sure to keep reinforcing things they already knew. 

I tend to start out with nouns referring to things around us, so it's easy to have conversation. We build up on top of that. I don't think there's a precise sequence one has to follow. 

2 years in and DD9 speaks almost fluently and understands like 80% of spoken language. She's also not resentful about this at all -- mind you, she did ASK to learn Russian, but the fact that it's not overwhelming helps a lot, I'm sure. 

DD9 also loves reading and writing, so we did wind up teaching her to read and write. So currently, a lot of her Russian work is written. (We're taking an unschooling break for the year, so we can't do as much immersion, anyway.) I don't know when one would normally introduce that -- DD9 is gifted and found learning to read a new alphabet absolutely trivial. 

This is what we do as well for Mandarin. We have a specified time every day to practice the language and integrate it in our daily routine. This makes the language accessible and relevant, thus more likely retained. I wrote about our Mandarin Morning in a blog post a few weeks ago: https://creativeplaybilingual.blogspot.com/2021/09/mandarin-morning-integrating-language.html. Mind you, we do use an online tutor (curriculum) because I know no Mandarin. She also has a weekly math class in Mandarin.

Spanish, I just integrate as an academic subject. For example, spelling and/or grammar is in Spanish. Science and social studies can be either done mainly in Spanish, or supplemented with Spanish books. With my oldest daughter, math was done in Spanish until her 4th grade year. I graduated her with a bilingual seal on her diploma. Wherever Spanish can be in the curriculum, it is there, but not a "Spanish curriculum."

Edited October 11, 2021 by Renai
added info

[countrymum]

On 10/10/2021 at 4:43 PM, HomeAgain said:

Ds11 started French with a monthly book program when he was 6 or so.  They'd send a story, activity book, and link to the audio.  It was just beginning words injected into an English story, and as they progressed more vocab would be rotated through.

We tried Nallenart after that, but it was slow. Even after adding Telefrancais, ds needed something stronger as a spine.

Last year we began using books from Fluency Matters. Each book has a set amount of vocabulary that it's built around, so the books for beginners have less unique words than books for advanced.  We moved from that to phonic readers I bought on Amazon.fr and a kindergarten/1st grade workbook.  Ds worked up to where he was able to complete various lessons in French at a 6yo level.  Like, I built an entire week around The Very Hungry Caterpillar and did the entire thing in French/5-In-A-Row pattern.  We'd watch it on youtube each day, do an activity, he'd do a worksheet sometimes..

This year, we're doing more with a Scholastic Easy French Reader and the French workbook.  The best part about the reader is it has the same stories he's doing in IEW and history, so he has a good background to figure out unknown words.

Could you tell me more about fluency matters? What about using some of there books for an eager still beginner, but knows some vocabulary 3rd grader?

[HomeAgain]

6 hours ago, countrymum said:

Could you tell me more about fluency matters? What about using some of there books for an eager still beginner, but knows some vocabulary 3rd grader?

They remind me a little of Green Eggs & Ham, lol, but much better done.  If you look at the list, you can see the unique word count in the book.  I think the earliest/lowest count in all the languages is Edi The Elephant.  It's a simple story that repeats those words over and over:

Edi is small.  His mom is big.  His dad is big.  His mom has big feet.  Edi has little feet. He wants big feet.  His friend says to him, "Edi, if you want big feet you must jump 10 times."  Edi jumps: 1...2....3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 times.  But he is still small. 

You can already see the repetition. 😄  In the back of the book is a glossary, going over each unique word.  However, verb forms are not considered unique.  While Edi tends to stay in 1st person/singular 3rd person, I want to say that the next set of books up (Brandon Brown et al.) with twice the word count begin introducing more verb forms.  Still present tense, but more irregular verbs.

Edi is written as an oversized picture book, most of the others look like little chapter books. 

One of our other resources in French are the J'apprends a lire avec Sami et Julie series.  They are phonic readers that start at the very beginning, with shaded letters and liaisons drawn in to help read fluently, but they are meant for French kindergartners, not FSL students.  So the assistance found in Fluency Matters isn't there in the phonics books - my kid spent a bit of time with the dictionary when he couldn't figure out a word (something like "grumble" doesn't come up often in French textbooks).  BUT, it did help him read at an appropriate level.  I'm sure other languages have similar early readers with lots of pictures and simple text.

One last resource: KnowitAll.org has not only First Step/Next Step In __________ programs, but it offers little shorts: stories, simple science type videos in targeted languages. They're about 5 minutes long and have clear, slow narrators.

[maize]

On 10/10/2021 at 9:40 PM, Renai said:

This is what we do as well for Mandarin. We have a specified time every day to practice the language and integrate it in our daily routine. This makes the language accessible and relevant, thus more likely retained. I wrote about our Mandarin Morning in a blog post a few weeks ago: https://creativeplaybilingual.blogspot.com/2021/09/mandarin-morning-integrating-language.html. Mind you, we do use an online tutor (curriculum) because I know no Mandarin. She also has a weekly math class in Mandarin.

Spanish, I just integrate as an academic subject. For example, spelling and/or grammar is in Spanish. Science and social studies can be either done mainly in Spanish, or supplemented with Spanish books. With my oldest daughter, math was done in Spanish until her 4th grade year. I graduated her with a bilingual seal on her diploma. Wherever Spanish can be in the curriculum, it is there, but not a "Spanish curriculum."

Renai I would love more information about the math class in Mandarin; I've been looking for Mandarin math for my 1st grader.

[Renai]

3 hours ago, maize said:

Renai I would love more information about the math class in Mandarin; I've been looking for Mandarin math for my 1st grader.

They use the Singapore method of math, and do have 1st grade. Since it's an ongoing class, you pay weekly and can drop at any time: https://outschool.com/teachers/Mentorhood-Learning-Center#usWYh7px2U It is only once a week, but we have been trying to integrate the new vocabulary in our regular math program. If you are on Facebook, I have a suggestion for a group as well, as we look for classes for our children.

[maize]

8 minutes ago, Renai said:

They use the Singapore method of math, and do have 1st grade. Since it's an ongoing class, you pay weekly and can drop at any time: https://outschool.com/teachers/Mentorhood-Learning-Center#usWYh7px2U It is only once a week, but we have been trying to integrate the new vocabulary in our regular math program. If you are on Facebook, I have a suggestion for a group as well, as we look for classes for our children.

Thank you!

And I would love the Facebook group suggestion.

[Clarita]

On 10/9/2021 at 9:08 AM, MomN said:

I am wondering how some of you have more naturally incorporated a second language into your day.  Do you tackle vocabulary first?  Like start with colors and numbers and food? Or do you start with essential phrases and then add in vocabulary weekly?  Any ideas are appreciated!

I'm still learning how to do it. For us and my super little kids I tried a curriculum and it's just hard to pull out the book and do it in a school-ish fashion everyday. What has kind of worked for us is to take it easy with no expectations. We do a music class once a week in Chinese. Mostly what my kids do is jump, dance and play music, the language in the songs happen to be in Chinese. If we learn shapes or numbers in English I may interject some Chinese into it. I got some Chinese learning reading books (it's like Bob Books in Chinese) we do those when we feel like it but I try to make it more for exposure and fun rather than actually leading my kids to memorize any of the characters.

I've seen a little too many of my peers loathe Chinese after having it forced on them for years (no one here sounds like they do this). I don't want that for my kids. I just want them exposed enough that if they need it they have the muscle memory for pronouncing the words perfectly and it doesn't seem daunting if/when they want to learn it. 

[8filltheheart]

I have a dd who self-taught herself to fluency in French by high school graduation.  She didn't do it completely without a textbook, though.  She wanted to learn French when she was in 3rd grade. I'd put on movies in French that she knew in English.  I bought her CD soundtracks with Disney songs (mostly) in French (they don't change all of the songs).  

As she got older, I added in simple grammar books.  Eventually she used French in Action.  She started to read books in French that she knew in English.  (When she was in 8th grade she read The Chronicles of Narnia in French.)  By 11th or 12th (can't remember now) she was reading Les Mis in its original French.  She watched the French news.  (when she could understand the flash news, she knew her French was good.  😉 )  She was able to multitask while watching French movies (like building a puzzle).  

She never had a French teacher and I don't know any French.  We sent her to 2 summer French camps.  She went to meetings at our local Alliance Francaise in order to practice speaking.  There in 11th grade she met a newly arrived Francophone who had just moved to our area who was lonely bc she had left behind her children and grandchildren.  She offered to meet with dd to just chat in French.  Eventually they started a book study.  (Les Mis is one of the bks that they got together to discuss.  THe Francophone had never read it before.)   I asked her if she would be willing to read dd's French essays and mark the grammar mistakes.  

Dd's French accent is so good that one time she went with her "adopted French grandma" to a local international event and dd was talking with people there.  They thought dd was a Francophone (dd of her mentor).  

So, it can be achieved in a very circuitous route.  The motivation needs to come from the child, though.  

[ByGrace3]

For elementary we use the Usborne book "First Thousand Words" in Spanish. Pick a topic -- we start with numbers, colors, shapes -- an play games to learn the vocabulary. Grammar is done organically -- learning colors and numbers we play GO Fish - learn the tener verb and Ir a pescar... we then moved on to the Verbs/activities pages and played charades. Then the Body page and played Twister . . . etc. I read books in Spanish and we talk about what they are hearing and what sounds familiar. Soon, I will add other media like video clips or short shows. We also do a lot of songs. 

[Renai]

On 10/14/2021 at 11:27 AM, maize said:

Thank you!

And I would love the Facebook group suggestion.

The group is here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/classesforkidsinchineseandspanish/about. There are a lot of good suggestions on there, many different classes. It does say for families teaching both Spanish and Mandarin, but of all the groups I'm in, this has been the most helpful in finding classes.

[Gil]

On 10/9/2021 at 12:08 PM, MomN said:

I've tried textbooks and they haven't worked for us.  I speak Spanish so it should be easy for me to teach it to my dc but it isn't.  I think the main issue is that we have so much on our plates that learning Spanish has always been pushed to the side.  I am wondering how some of you have more naturally incorporated a second language into your day.  Do you tackle vocabulary first?  Like start with colors and numbers and food? Or do you start with essential phrases and then add in vocabulary weekly?  Any ideas are appreciated!

For my family learning Spanish* was a priority. I took a lot of things off of our plate so that it could get done. I was perfectly ok with them learning (Intensive) Spanish and Math for a few years.

In the USA, "learning a language" usually results in people knowing a few hundred words that they can't really combine into meaningful sentences or converse with. I wanted my children to be able to converse with native speakers and to read and write in Spanish at the level of an educated person. So allowing the practice, study and development of their Spanish skills to be pushed to the side wasn't an option.

I would not waste time with teaching them numbers and colors. As a matter of fact, a couple of years ago, at 10.5ish there were still some colors that they didn't recognize by name. They had a conversation in Spanish with a Spanish speaking teenager about how funny it was that they could straight up speak Spanish but didn't know certain colors. After that, they knew the names of whichever colors were missing from their vocabulary.

Teach them functional language. Your kids don't need to know how to introduce themselves or say who is in their family. They need to tell you what the want or don't want, that they "didn't do it" and to discusss the pictures and illustrations in books with you.

I would start a Morning Time ritual that is bilingual for a couple of weeks, then 100% in Spanish after that. 

 

[maize]

19 hours ago, Renai said:

The group is here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/classesforkidsinchineseandspanish/about. There are a lot of good suggestions on there, many different classes. It does say for families teaching both Spanish and Mandarin, but of all the groups I'm in, this has been the most helpful in finding classes.

Thank you!

I have four kids learning Chinese and one learning Spanish, so this looks perfect!

Edited October 16, 2021 by maize

[wisdomandtreasures]

I've just restarted Spanish in earnest after a few failed attempts. Here's my mish-mash of resources that we've been doing for about two months now and I am pleased with the progress my kids are making. 🙂

Cherrydale Press "Speaking Spanish with Miss Mason and Francois". We do one series with gestures a week. At the end of the week, I will say the series in English, then they draw what is happening in their notebooks. My 12-year-old writes the sentences in Spanish, and my 7-year-old just tells me what each sentence is in Spanish. Link: https://cherrydalepress.com/?page_id=15

Storytime Spanish literature bundle from "Book-Built House" on Teachers Pay Teachers. It's Preschool-2nd grade, but that's where my oldest is in his Spanish so I just group all my kids together. You read a story several times, each time introducing new vocabulary through flashcard pictures and gestures. She also included songs, games, and simple activities like looking for something new on the page each time you read through it. For example, we did "Buenas Noches, Gorila" and one time they were supposed to look for the guard's keys. The next time, they looked for stuffed animals. Then we went through and, instead of tucking in all the animals, we woke them up with "Buenos dias". Link: https://www.teacherspayteachers.com/Product/StoryTime-Spanish-Growing-Bundle-for-Preschool-Elementary-Spanish-5480520

Songs from Jose Luis Orozco and "Teach Me..." series. 

Spanish emergent readers, also from Teachers Pay Teachers. These are simple little coloring books, about 6-8 pages, each with a sentence per page with very basic vocabulary. It's also early elementary level, so it's perfect for beginners. The bundle I got has 4-5 readers per month for the whole year, with ones for holidays and seasonal themes. I try to match them up with the series from the "Speaking Spanish with Miss Mason" book as much as I can. 🙂 Link: https://www.teacherspayteachers.com/Product/Spanish-Emergent-Readers-Bundle-3866632

Many repetitions of basic everyday phrases that I got from a book called "Kid's Stuff Spanish", which from what I can tell, is similar to the Talkbox Mom phrasebook. I just make it a goal to use as much Spanish as I can throughout the day. 

Assuming you're a Christian... I recently got a beautiful Bible story book from Christian Light. I plan on going through that slowly and using the coloring book that goes with it. Link: https://christianlight.org/cuentame-las-historias-de-jesus🙂

Many, many, many Spanish picture books. I picked ones that we already know in English, hoping that familiarity with the stories will help them pick up the vocabulary more easily. We have Miss Rumphius, The Very Hungry Caterpillar, Ferdinand, Blueberries for Sal, Brown Bear What Do You See?, And several Dr. Seuss books in Spanish. BilingualTogether.com has book lists organized by age: baby board books, picture books, early elementary, and chapter books. 

Two good YouTube videos on foreign language for homeschoolers: 

And...

Edited to just add links to make it easier if you're interested in the resources I mentioned. 🙂

Edited November 2, 2021 by wisdomandtreasures
Links

[Shifra]

There's an approach called "Total Physical Response" that may work. In a nutshell, you give your children commands and pantomime the action. For Spanish there's Viva la accion: Live Action Spanish by Contee Seeley. 

Help Your Child with a Foreign Language by Opal Dunn has a list of vocabulary that's helpful.