Surrendering a pet that is not yours

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, crazyforlatin said:

I know the roommate so I wouldn’t report him. But my friend is an old family friend, and he’s been calling my mom sobbing every week. They know that he loves children and pets, he prays, he ministers to people, he’s always there to help a friend, and now he’s had his puppy stolen by a person who lives with him, and he’s in pain. It’s hard to ignore all that.
 

I have a dog, so I know any untrained puppy should not live with him. I briefly mentioned that maybe it’s for the best for a puppy to be with people who can keep up with a pit bull.

But my friend suspects the new owners are torturing the puppy and he needs to rescue her. 

Seriously - you now sound like you are unwilling to consider he is developing dementia.  He can be the best Christian on the planet - and STILL develop dementia.  That he (see above) does all the bolded *is irrelevant* to dementia (or a UTI).   Some dementia patients become aggressive.  Many become paranoid. (which can also manifest as aggressive.)

that he thinks the new owners - whom he has never met, and knows nothing about - is torturing the puppy and he must rescue it - is *paranoia*.

[Innisfree]

1 hour ago, crazyforlatin said:

I know the roommate so I wouldn’t report him. But my friend is an old family friend, and he’s been calling my mom sobbing every week. They know that he loves children and pets, he prays, he ministers to people, he’s always there to help a friend, and now he’s had his puppy stolen by a person who lives with him, and he’s in pain. It’s hard to ignore all that.
 

I have a dog, so I know any untrained puppy should not live with him. I briefly mentioned that maybe it’s for the best for a puppy to be with people who can keep up with a pit bull.

But my friend suspects the new owners are torturing the puppy and he needs to rescue her. 

1st bolded part: Calling every week: how long ago did the roommate take the puppy to the shelter? How long has this calling, crying, etc., been going on?

2nd: I would not ignore it at all. I would focus my efforts to help him on getting qualified help, though, not sympathizing with him about the puppy. Certainly if he calls and is sobbing, talk with him. But don't encourage him to dwell on the puppy. Ask him about old stories (not dog related), tell him you'll bring some cookies by with a picture the children drew. Don't encourage more fixation on the puppy. This kind of fixation can be characteristic of dementia, but also of other issues. If people encourage him to dwell on it, that doesn't help.

Don't misunderstand. I love my animals dearly, and the thought of an old man losing his puppy is awful. But that puppy was never going to be a good fit for that elderly man. It's not even just a matter of potential aggression: pits can be very sweet. But they have so.much.energy! They need so.much.exercise! And clearly he's not in a good state to manage any dog right now.

3rd: But none of you know anything about the new owners, right? So this is delusional. See above, don't encourage it.

Love him, talk with him. But for heaven's sake, get him some help. This might be fixable.

Eta and don't let him take out his anger on any animals in the meantime. Their safety is reason enough for intervention.

Edited August 7, 2021 by Innisfree

[Jean in Newcastle]

I tend to side with whoever/whatever is the most vulnerable in a situation (if I have to take a side).  Pet animals are vulnerable even though the elderly can be as well.  But pets have to rely on the humans in their life for food, water, attention, exercise. . . and most of all love.  Vulnerable elderly people need appropriate medical care and support.  This can include the loving support of animals in their home.  BUT if the vulnerable elderly person is abusing the vulnerable pet animal, then the answer is not to keep this dynamic going. 

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

He had the puppy rescued by a person who lives with him.  I realize that the person went about it in a wrong way but the motivation was not to hurt an old man. 

Your friend, no matter how lovely a person he's been, is having disordered thinking.  Paranoid thoughts and rage are not things to be brushed aside even if it's intermittent.  I do agree that it could be early signs of dementia or Alzheimers.  Many elderly can "present well" at first - keeping their symptoms under control most of the time, or perhaps they only happen some of the time. 

this

OP - the 'aggression' (and paranoia), can  be a result of fear because he knows something is wrong, but can't control it or know what to do about it.  UTIs can be difficult to treat in the elderly, but they are treatable.  and bizarrely, they can cause dementia-like symptoms.  Same with some nutritional deficiencies.  

He may well deny there is anything wrong if it's suggested, due to fear.   especially if he's one of those from the generation/mind-set of "if you ignore it long enough it will go away".

It's possible the sobbing about the puppy is a (subconscious) deflection from the recognition that he is not thinking clearly.  He wants help.

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, crazyforlatin said:

The animal shelter knows he has 10 cats because he registered all of them and has kept up with all their shots. 
 

And it’s not up to me to report the roommate, he has a couple of friends who believe there was elder abuse and racism and are already figuring out how to, as they say, “destroy” the roommate.

I believe my friend is deeply heartbroken. 

BUT - does the animal shelter know he is showing aggression towards animals and paranoia?  

Your friend needs medical HELP - *not* "sympathy". from 'caring' friends.  (who if they really cared about him, would help him get appropriate medical evaluation so he can get the medical care he probably needs.)

[crazyforlatin]

24 minutes ago, Innisfree said:

1st bolded part: Calling every week: how long ago did the roommate take the puppy to the shelter? How long has this calling, crying, etc., been going on?

2nd: I would not ignore it at all. I would focus my efforts to help him on getting qualified help, though, not sympathizing with him about the puppy. Certainly if he calls and is sobbing, talk with him. But don't encourage him to dwell on the puppy. Ask him about old stories (not dog related), tell him you'll bring some cookies by with a picture the children drew. Don't encourage more fixation on the puppy. This kind of fixation can be characteristic of dementia, but also of other issues. If people encourage him to dwell on it, that doesn't help.

Don't misunderstand. I love my animals dearly, and the thought of an old man losing his puppy is awful. But that puppy was never going to be a good fit for that elderly man. It's not even just a matter of potential aggression: pits can be very sweet. But they have so.much.energy! They need so.much.exercise! And clearly he's not in a good state to manage any dog right now.

3rd: But none of you know anything about the new owners, right? So this is delusional. See above, don't encourage it.

Love him, talk with him. But for heaven's sake, get him some help. This might be fixable.

The puppy was brought in back in January. Yes it’s been a long time. He did get another puppy pit bull shortly afterwards about a month later. Due to the temperament and personality differences, there’s constant reminder of his stolen puppy. His family shouldn’t have given him puppies especially given his age and his stiff joints. But there was a litter and they were trying to get rid of them. 

He’s an extremely stubborn man, set in his ways, and no matter how many people at church have gotten the vaccine, he doesn’t trust the government. And through prayer he will be healed, that sort of mindset. 

[crazyforlatin]

4 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

Ok this is a side question for those who are experienced in working with shelters to foster or adopt multiple animals. 
 

Ten cats sounds like a lot to me. OP is there a chance this shelter is taking advantage of your friend because they are overloaded with animals? Because in my imagination, ten cats seems like cat overload, unless someone is actively managing a feral cat colony or has farm barns/country buildings that need mousing.
 

Someone please educate my on this.  

He’s adopted 1-2 cats from them so they were fixed and for some reason he got more from somewhere and they multiplied to 11 with a neighbor cat before he could take her to the shelter for shots etc (one got run over recently so down to 10). 

[Jean in Newcastle]

2 minutes ago, crazyforlatin said:

The puppy was brought in back in January. Yes it’s been a long time. He did get another puppy pit bull shortly afterwards about a month later. Due to the temperament and personality differences, there’s constant reminder of his stolen puppy. His family shouldn’t have given him puppies especially given his age and his stiff joints. But there was a litter and they were trying to get rid of them. 

He’s an extremely stubborn man, set in his ways, and no matter how many people at church have gotten the vaccine, he doesn’t trust the government. And through prayer he will be healed, that sort of mindset. 

At this point I wouldn't focus on trying to change his mind on the Covid vaccine.  What I would do is to try to get him into the doctor for a physical exam.  If the doctor has a heads up, he can do a cognitive assessment without even telling the patient that he's being assessed cognitively.  But he can also be checked for infections (any infection in the elderly can show up in behavior and cognitive changes, not just a UTI) or for things like depression. 

[gardenmom5]

3 minutes ago, crazyforlatin said:

The puppy was brought in back in January. Yes it’s been a long time. He did get another puppy pit bull shortly afterwards about a month later. Due to the temperament and personality differences, there’s constant reminder of his stolen puppy. His family shouldn’t have given him puppies especially given his age and his stiff joints. But there was a litter and they were trying to get rid of them. 

He’s an extremely stubborn man, set in his ways, and no matter how many people at church have gotten the vaccine, he doesn’t trust the government. And through prayer he will be healed, that sort of mindset. 

The puppy wasn't stolen, the puppy was rescued from someone that was abusing it.   There has been a lot of information that has only come out as this thread has progressed.

 Your friend's ***family*** are using him to get rid of their ***unwanted*** puppies.

This has nothing to do with COVID! It has nothing to do with the gov't.  I don't even understand why you brought those up.  

Does he *ever* go to a dr?  if he had a broken bone - would he go to a dr?  or would he expect God would just heal it?  This is no different.  Something in his body is broken, and needs to be healed/helped.

 

[crazyforlatin]

14 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

The puppy wasn't stolen, the puppy was rescued from someone that was abusing it.   There has been a lot of information that has only come out as this thread has progressed.

 Your friend's ***family*** are using him to get rid of their ***unwanted*** puppies.

This has nothing to do with COVID! It has nothing to do with the gov't.  I don't even understand why you brought those up.  

Does he *ever* go to a dr?  if he had a broken bone - would he go to a dr?  or would he expect God would just heal it?  This is no different.  Something in his body is broken, and needs to be healed/helped.

 

His friend is a doctor who happens to be abt the same age. He sees him frequently. I bring these things up because it’s his state of mind and one of the first things I hope for him is to get a shot because he’s always out and about. If he gets Covid at his age I don’t know if he can survive it. He has a pre existing condition. It doesn’t matter if I get him treated for dementia or UTI if he gets Covid. He has a job that exposes him to people. 
 

You’re right, I shouldn’t have brought it up, it’s complicates the pet issue and his mental health. In a way I’m using this thread to sort my thoughts and figure out what to do. 

[gardenmom5]

3 minutes ago, crazyforlatin said:

His friend is a doctor who happens to be abt the same age. He sees him frequently. I bring these things up because it’s his state of mind and one of the first things I hope for him is to get a shot because he’s always out and about. If he gets Covid at his age I don’t know if he can survive it. He has a pre existing condition. It doesn’t matter if I get him treated for dementia or UTI if he gets Covid. He has a job that exposes him to people. 
 

You’re right, I shouldn’t have brought it up, it’s complicates the pet issue and his mental health. In a way I’m using this thread to sort my thoughts and figure out what to do. 

Unless his "doctor friend" has done dedicated cognitive function tests on him, or has  run labs looking for infections or nutritional deficiencies - it's IRRELEVANT.   

covid is a hypothetical.  he might or he might not contract it.  his aggression ,and paranoia are happening NOW.  don't ignore the "now" to focus on a "what if".

if you are saying what I think you're saying - that you'd rather he suffer from dementia or  UTI, than risk getting covid . . .  you are not being a friend.  Nor are you being a christian.

   

 

[Katy]

36 minutes ago, crazyforlatin said:

His friend is a doctor who happens to be abt the same age. He sees him frequently. I bring these things up because it’s his state of mind and one of the first things I hope for him is to get a shot because he’s always out and about. If he gets Covid at his age I don’t know if he can survive it. He has a pre existing condition. It doesn’t matter if I get him treated for dementia or UTI if he gets Covid. He has a job that exposes him to people. 
 

You’re right, I shouldn’t have brought it up, it’s complicates the pet issue and his mental health. In a way I’m using this thread to sort my thoughts and figure out what to do. 

Call the doctor.  Tell him what's up, that he's had a sudden change in personality whenever the puppy is brought up, and you're worried and hope it's something easily treatable like a UTI or something.

10 cats outside the house isn't a big deal.  The shelters around me give away farm cats for free.  It's 10 indoor cats that are a sign of hoarding.

[crazyforlatin]

27 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

Unless his "doctor friend" has done dedicated cognitive function tests on him, or has  run labs looking for infections or nutritional deficiencies - it's IRRELEVANT.   

covid is a hypothetical.  he might or he might not contract it.  his aggression ,and paranoia are happening NOW.  don't ignore the "now" to focus on a "what if".

if you are saying what I think you're saying - that you'd rather he suffer from dementia or  UTI, than risk getting covid . . .  you are not being a friend.  Nor are you being a christian.

   

 

I have been this morning, and I must not have communicated properly here about putting priority on dementia. I have, and now I’m also met with accusations of being unchristian, going straight to hell because I’m overstepping. It’s common theme for him and his friends to say I’m possessed by an evil spirit. They are all old and if I interrupt, again the unchristian accusations come out. I’m sure once I call his doctor and services, they are going to say worse things. 

[crazyforlatin]

I’m not sure if people understand the psychological damage when accused of being unchristian when the accuser is a firm believer, prays a couple of hours a day, reads the Bible daily, and has unwavering faith. They witness to people on the street. They are not afraid to proclaim their faith. They accuse freely because they know it’ll impact you.

[elegantlion]

27 minutes ago, crazyforlatin said:

I have been this morning, and I must not have communicated properly here about putting priority on dementia. I have, and now I’m also met with accusations of being unchristian, going straight to hell because I’m overstepping. It’s common theme for him and his friends to say I’m possessed by an evil spirit. They are all old and if I interrupt, again the unchristian accusations come out. I’m sure once I call his doctor and services, they are going to say worse things. 

I would not tell him that you're calling his doctor until necessary. Unless you have POA, they may not talk to you at all. 

I'm sorrying you're being accussed of being unchristian, it's not true, remember that. You are showing a kindness in this situation. 

[Innisfree]

1 hour ago, crazyforlatin said:

The puppy was brought in back in January. Yes it’s been a long time.

For clarity: the roommate brought the puppy into the shelter in January. Right? When did your friend start acting out of character? Back in January, or this summer?

1 hour ago, crazyforlatin said:

His friend is a doctor who happens to be abt the same age. He sees him frequently.

Is this doctor friend his doctor, currently practicing, the one he'd see for an annual checkup? 

32 minutes ago, crazyforlatin said:

It’s common theme for him and his friends to say I’m possessed by an evil spirit.

Is his doctor one of the people saying that? If so, that's not the person you need to talk to. 

I think this situation keeps getting more complicated. I had been envisioning a recent change in behavior, within the last week or two, and a doctor in an office who wasn't a personal chum and fellow church member.

Could you clarify some of this?

I'm sorry they're attacking you. This is sounding less like a UTI than like socially encouraged religious zealotry to me, maybe mixed with incipient dementia. Honestly, if that's how they behave, I'd stay away. If he has a doctor who isn't in the same church, I'd call them, or adult protective services; and I'd call animal control about the puppy he has now, and then I'd stay away. But this is all outside my experience, so I'm not sure what is normal for him.

[Janeway]

23 hours ago, crazyforlatin said:

I'm asking for a friend.

His puppy was surrendered without his knowledge. The roommate took a copy of his ID, signed a letter for him, and brought the pet to the animal control.

The intention behind the surrender is complicated. The roommate was worried for the 80 year old who was sick and couldn’t handle the puppy. He complained he was going to die due to taking care of the puppy. The owner was willing to give it away but wasn't aware it would be a situation where he could never visit or take it back.

What is the recourse for the pet owner? Animal Control was supposed to call to verify since the pet is registered with owner contact information on file, but no one called. Should they have asked for a power of attorney in its verification?

Animal control should have looked close enough that they knew that was not the owner. The real owner of the dog should press criminal charges.

[Katy]

Guys, you can always speak your health concerns to someone's doctor.   It's just the doctor cannot speak to you.

[City Mouse]

I want to strongly agree about the possibility of dementia/mental decline/depression - in other words, some kind of medical or mental issue.

The behavior described sound almost exactly like my mother earlier this summer. She had a totally different trigger, but same results- unusual crying, extreme anger, paranoia. She even has hoarding issues (that number of animal could be considered hoarding).  
 

I am coming back to add that it has been reported to me that after a few weeks respite, mom is back to the crying/mood swings/blaming/anger of earlier this summer. Now the siblings that live close are just avoiding her as much as possible.

Edited August 9, 2021 by City Mouse

[Lanny]

On 8/6/2021 at 6:29 PM, gardenmom5 said:

The roommate took a copy of his ID, signed a letter for him,

what the roommate did was fraud. He pretended to be his roommate - he signed a legal document using his roommates name - his intentions are irrelevant, it was fraudulent.

I would start with the Police and filing a report.  Then deliver an actual letter to that animal control location that the dog was fraudulently surrendered and they could be held liable.

eta: if he claimed to be acting in behalf of the owner, and using the owners ID - it is still fraud.

The crime is called "Forgery".  When she was very young, my DW was trained to be a Forensic Handwriting Analyst.  It would be easy for her to prove the person who submitted the document had falsified it.  It's the same in the USA as it is here in Colombia. It is a crime.

[Danae]

23 hours ago, crazyforlatin said:

I’m not sure if people understand the psychological damage when accused of being unchristian when the accuser is a firm believer, prays a couple of hours a day, reads the Bible daily, and has unwavering faith. They witness to people on the street. They are not afraid to proclaim their faith. They accuse freely because they know it’ll impact you.

If they are accusing you of being unchristian in order to hurt and manipulate you they are using their show of faith for evil.  It doesn’t matter how often he prays, how long he reads the Bible, or how much his confidence seems unwavering.  

[gardenmom5]

On 8/7/2021 at 1:17 PM, crazyforlatin said:

I have been this morning, and I must not have communicated properly here about putting priority on dementia. I have, and now I’m also met with accusations of being unchristian, going straight to hell because I’m overstepping. It’s common theme for him and his friends to say I’m possessed by an evil spirit. They are all old and if I interrupt, again the unchristian accusations come out. I’m sure once I call his doctor and services, they are going to say worse things. 

No - I did not understand you have concern about him developing dementia. Initially you seemed to think that, but then it seemed you had dismissed the idea.      - his friends sound like they think that "he's a good chrisitan" should protect him from dementia.  to me: they sound fearful of life.  

their accusations that you're possessed by an evil spirit - is manipulation to get you to 'be quiet' and stop making them face things that make them afraid**.   manipulation - is "unchristian".  Christ didn't manipulate people.   (me, I'd roll my eyes at them, and tell them they are the ones refusing to get help for their friend - you are trying to help him.  You're being the good samaritain getting what help is actually needed (a dr for him), and they crossed to the other side of the street so they don't have to face reality while they commiserate with him about the dog and refuse to get him the help he *actually needs*.)

My grandmother engaged in that type of manipulation (big eye roll.) - I learned to stop caring what other people (especially her) thought, because ultimately, what God thought about me was the only opinion that truly mattered in the end.

** I've had too many experiences with "job's comforters" (similar to them) in my time . . .. My conclusion, they are afraid, their comments are based in their fear that if bad things happen to "good people" - then bad things might happen to them.  So, they either deny the bad thing, or attack the messenger who is saying this bad thing is happening.  

23 hours ago, Janeway said:

Animal control should have looked close enough that they knew that was not the owner. The real owner of the dog should press criminal charges.

I don't know if you're new to this thread - the original owner likely has dementia and was abusing the dog.

1 hour ago, Lanny said:

The crime is called "Forgery".  When she was very young, my DW was trained to be a Forensic Handwriting Analyst.  It would be easy for her to prove the person who submitted the document had falsified it.  It's the same in the USA as it is here in Colombia. It is a crime.

The document was the forgery - the document was forged to commit the crime of fraud, pretending to be someone he wasn't.   You must prove intent to commit fraud to find someone guilty of fraud.  In this case. it would be easy.
But seriously - what was done was in the best interests of the dog.  The owner needs to be assessed for dementia or other medical issues causing cognitive dysfunction.

11 minutes ago, Danae said:

If they are accusing you of being unchristian in order to hurt and manipulate you they are using their show of faith for evil.  It doesn’t matter how often he prays, how long he reads the Bible, or how much his confidence seems unwavering.  

This.  the world looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh upon the heart.  (and trying to manipulate someone, isn't 'nice')

[crazyforlatin]

11 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

No - I did not understand you have concern about him developing dementia. Initially you seemed to think that, but then it seemed you had dismissed the idea.      - his friends sound like they think that "he's a good chrisitan" should protect him from dementia.  to me: they sound fearful of life.  

their accusations that you're possessed by an evil spirit - is manipulation to get you to 'be quiet' and stop making them face things that make them afraid**.   manipulation - is "unchristian".  Christ didn't manipulate people.   (me, I'd roll my eyes at them, and tell them they are the ones refusing to get help for their friend - you are trying to help him.  You're being the good samaritain getting what help is actually needed (a dr for him), and they crossed to the other side of the street so they don't have to face reality while they commiserate with him about the dog and refuse to get him the help he *actually needs*.)

My grandmother engaged in that type of manipulation (big eye roll.) - I learned to stop caring what other people (especially her) thought, because ultimately, what God thought about me was the only opinion that truly mattered in the end.

** I've had too many experiences with "job's comforters" (similar to them) in my time . . .. My conclusion, they are afraid, their comments are based in their fear that if bad things happen to "good people" - then bad things might happen to them.  So, they either deny the bad thing, or attack the messenger who is saying this bad thing is happening.  

I don't know if you're new to this thread - the original owner likely has dementia and was abusing the dog.

The document was the forgery - the document was forged to commit the crime of fraud, pretending to be someone he wasn't.   You must prove intent to commit fraud to find someone guilty of fraud.  In this case. it would be easy.
But seriously - what was done was in the best interests of the dog.  The owner needs to be assessed for dementia or other medical issues causing cognitive dysfunction.

This.  the world looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh upon the heart.  (and trying to manipulate someone, isn't 'nice')

Thank you for analyzing this for me. It helps to know how others have handled people with dementia. What I don’t understand is how they can act normal with some people and change immediately with someone else. It feels like they bully people they think will stick by them and turn around to be a charming older man that everyone loves to hang out with. What is it about dementia that does this versus just a plain bully and sexist? Again I’m not trying to avoid the dementia issue, just trying to understand how to distinguish this because it’s not just him, he has another friend who is extremely similar. They choose who to verbally abuse but it’s veiled in such righteousness. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

2 hours ago, crazyforlatin said:

Thank you for analyzing this for me. It helps to know how others have handled people with dementia. What I don’t understand is how they can act normal with some people and change immediately with someone else. It feels like they bully people they think will stick by them and turn around to be a charming older man that everyone loves to hang out with. What is it about dementia that does this versus just a plain bully and sexist? Again I’m not trying to avoid the dementia issue, just trying to understand how to distinguish this because it’s not just him, he has another friend who is extremely similar. They choose who to verbally abuse but it’s veiled in such righteousness. 

It’s not necessarily dementia driving everything. Many elderly people  “lose their filter” as they age. And unfortunately what you are seeing are the abusive sexist attitudes that were there under the surface all along. 

Edited August 8, 2021 by Jean in Newcastle
Typo

[crazyforlatin]

2 hours ago, Lanny said:

The crime is called "Forgery".  When she was very young, my DW was trained to be a Forensic Handwriting Analyst.  It would be easy for her to prove the person who submitted the document had falsified it.  It's the same in the USA as it is here in Colombia. It is a crime.

The guy knows it’s a crime, and though the intention was to help the old man (he had a horrible prostate problem during that time and couldn’t leave the bed), he’s aware what he did is criminal. He’s willing to admit it to law enforcement without mentioning any other factors. He thinks maybe what he did may have triggered dementia. 

[gardenmom5]

9 minutes ago, crazyforlatin said:

Thank you for analyzing this for me. It helps to know how others have handled people with dementia. What I don’t understand is how they can act normal with some people and change immediately with someone else. It feels like they bully people they think will stick by them and turn around to be a charming older man that everyone loves to hang out with. What is it about dementia that does this versus just a plain bully and sexist? Again I’m not trying to avoid the dementia issue, just trying to understand how to distinguish this because it’s not just him, he has another friend who is extremely similar. They choose who to verbally abuse but it’s veiled in such righteousness. 

My grandmother did this because she was a covert narcissist.  As she developed dementia, her cognitive function fell off a cliff and she wasn't able to bully anyone.  She and my mother both had TIAs - which do cumulative damage.  how it presents depends upon where the damage is in the brain. It's my biggest fear for me as there is a genetic predisposition.

 some lose their filter.:  they were always like this but were conscious of how they "presented" to other people, and just lost the ability (or desire) to hide it anymore.

some have distinct personality changes because of the part of the brain that is affected.

 Is the friend with possible dementia one of those being verbally abusive while claiming to be righteous:? - frankly, it could be either of the above. It could also be part of him knows something is wrong, he's afraid, and he thinks "bad things only happen to bad people" - but he's not a bad person therefore nothing bad can happen to him.  therefore you suggesting something bad (dementia) is happening to him - means you are calling him "bad" so you must be evil. " (re: he's shooting the messenger.)

that he has another friend, who is very similar (I assume the 'sexist sanctimonious bully") -  . . is this a long time friend, from "before", or a newer friend "since this started"?

if this is a long time friend . . . I'd be wondering if this really was just a case of having lost filters, and they've always been sexist bullies.

 

 

[gardenmom5]

20 minutes ago, crazyforlatin said:

The guy knows it’s a crime, and though the intention was to help the old man (he had a horrible prostate problem during that time and couldn’t leave the bed), he’s aware what he did is criminal. He’s willing to admit it to law enforcement without mentioning any other factors. He thinks maybe what he did may have triggered dementia. 

if he thinks that - he doesn't understand how dementia works.  for it to be so noticeable now, it had to have been there before - but the signs were more easily ignored.  people can have actual damage happening in their brain from dementia years before others really start to notice.  All depends where in the brain, and how good they are at covering things.

if he does end up reported to the police, someone needs to give them the details the man was abusing the dog, and is showing signs of mental decline.

the guy who surrendered the dog had good motives, even if his method wasn't good.

[crazyforlatin]

2 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

My grandmother did this because she was a covert narcissist.  As she developed dementia, her cognitive function fell off a cliff and she wasn't able to bully anyone.  She and my mother both had TIAs - which do cumulative damage.  how it presents depends upon where the damage is in the brain. It's my biggest fear for me as there is a genetic predisposition.

 some lose their filter.:  they were always like this but were conscious of how they "presented" to other people, and just lost the ability (or desire) to hide it anymore.

some have distinct personality changes because of the part of the brain that is affected.

 Is the friend with possible dementia one of those being verbally abusive while claiming to be righteous:? - frankly, it could be either of the above. It could also be part of him knows something is wrong, he's afraid, and he thinks "bad things only happen to bad people" - but he's not a bad person therefore nothing bad can happen to him.  therefore you suggesting something bad (dementia) is happening to him - means you are calling him "bad" so you must be evil. " (re: he's shooting the messenger.)

that he has another friend, who is very similar (I assume the 'sexist sanctimonious bully") -  . . is this a long time friend, from "before", or a newer friend "since this started"?

if this is a long time friend . . . I'd be wondering if this really was just a case of having lost filters, and they've always been sexist bullies.

 

 

We’ve known him since I  was 3, he’s my DD’s godfather. So more than 40 years. My parents claim he never had a bad temper, but he was a street kid so bit rough around the edges, born in a generation that treat men better than women, yet thinks my Dd is just as capable as a boy. There are a lot of discrepancies in him, as with most of us, perhaps. Things have triggered his anger more and more recently.

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, crazyforlatin said:

We’ve known him since I  was 3, he’s my DD’s godfather. So more than 40 years. My parents claim he never had a bad temper, but he was a street kid so bit rough around the edges, born in a generation that treat men better than women, yet thinks my Dd is just as capable as a boy. There are a lot of discrepancies in him, as with most of us, perhaps. Things have triggered his anger more and more recently.

I meant the friend's friend.   We need a score card. . . . there's friend, friend's roommate, friend's friend . .sigh.

that he's being more easily triggered could be the stress of the lockdown (I think you said he was in lockdown), stress has a similar effect upon the brain as depression. stress also undermines filters. or dementia.  whatever is going on - it's not good.

[Janeway]

3 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

No - I did not understand you have concern about him developing dementia. Initially you seemed to think that, but then it seemed you had dismissed the idea.      - his friends sound like they think that "he's a good chrisitan" should protect him from dementia.  to me: they sound fearful of life.  

their accusations that you're possessed by an evil spirit - is manipulation to get you to 'be quiet' and stop making them face things that make them afraid**.   manipulation - is "unchristian".  Christ didn't manipulate people.   (me, I'd roll my eyes at them, and tell them they are the ones refusing to get help for their friend - you are trying to help him.  You're being the good samaritain getting what help is actually needed (a dr for him), and they crossed to the other side of the street so they don't have to face reality while they commiserate with him about the dog and refuse to get him the help he *actually needs*.)

My grandmother engaged in that type of manipulation (big eye roll.) - I learned to stop caring what other people (especially her) thought, because ultimately, what God thought about me was the only opinion that truly mattered in the end.

** I've had too many experiences with "job's comforters" (similar to them) in my time . . .. My conclusion, they are afraid, their comments are based in their fear that if bad things happen to "good people" - then bad things might happen to them.  So, they either deny the bad thing, or attack the messenger who is saying this bad thing is happening.  

I don't know if you're new to this thread - the original owner likely has dementia and was abusing the dog.

 

When I made my post, I had not read the whole thread( I prefer my responses to not be affected by others responses).  However, on that note, OP seems to have heard from the point of view of the thief…the thief who stole one dog out of two and stole an elderly man’s ID AND forged the name. If the man has dementia, then someone who is not a thief should be in charge of him. The person who took advantage of the elderly man and stole from him (and my bet is the dog is not the only crime the thief has stolen) should be criminally charged and not allowed access to children or elderly.

[gardenmom5]

8 minutes ago, Janeway said:

When I made my post, I had not read the whole thread( I prefer my responses to not be affected by others responses).  However, on that note, OP seems to have heard from the point of view of the thief…the thief who stole one dog out of two and stole an elderly man’s ID AND forged the name. If the man has dementia, then someone who is not a thief should be in charge of him. The person who took advantage of the elderly man and stole from him (and my bet is the dog is not the only crime the thief has stolen) should be criminally charged and not allowed access to children or elderly.

I was the first to comment on the original post.  when I did - I thought as you.  a lot of information has since come out in this thread, and I no longer think that way. 

The man's family is using him to dump unwanted pitbull puppies.  He was abusing the puppy - he only had one when it was turned over to animal control.  It has since been rehomed to a family.  Now, his family have given him another pitbull puppy.   He also has ten cats (he had eleven, but one recently died.)  

the man who turned over the dog was the elderly man's roommate and he was very concerned for the *being abused* puppy's wellbeing.  and rightly so. The abused puppy needed to be removed from the elderly man's care for its welfare.  abusing any dog - let alone a pit bull - can end in disaster.  including having a full grown dog turn on its owner and maul them.

the elderly man and his other friends are attacking the OP (and telling her she is evil) for the mere suggestion that he needs a cognitive/health assessment.  He has not been formally diagnosed with dementia. However, he is showing signs of unusual aggression, short temper, paranoia, etc.  Those supporting the elderly man deny there is anything wrong with him, despite his abusive behavior.  

[prairiewindmomma]

All of the dementia issues aside… The dog went to the shelter in January? and was adopted out a few days later. 6-7 months have passed. If he is still calling your mother weekly and sobbing (I think this is the word you used) then maybe let’s address how to support your mother and how to move forward on that end.

If he doesn’t have the ability to get the dog back on his own (and if he did, he would have, 6-7 months ago) then I wouldn’t push the issue as I think you’ve also said he does not have a healthy relationship with the replacement puppy. 
 

Redirection is going to be really key. 

 

[City Mouse]

18 hours ago, crazyforlatin said:

Thank you for analyzing this for me. It helps to know how others have handled people with dementia. What I don’t understand is how they can act normal with some people and change immediately with someone else. It feels like they bully people they think will stick by them and turn around to be a charming older man that everyone loves to hang out with. What is it about dementia that does this versus just a plain bully and sexist? Again I’m not trying to avoid the dementia issue, just trying to understand how to distinguish this because it’s not just him, he has another friend who is extremely similar. They choose who to verbally abuse but it’s veiled in such righteousness. 

My mother has the exact same behavior pattern. She is quite well behaved and appreciative (or appears to be) to outside people, but unloads on family members. That is exactly way she has refused outside help for so long. She could not be as demanding to other people. I will admit she has been that way all along, but she has gotten much worse as she has gotten older.