Appliances "upper/high end"

[Splash1]

I love my Bosch model SHX68TL5UC.  It took me a bit to learn how to load it but once I did, its been great.  We had high end Kitchen Aid dishwashers (3) that we continually repaired and replaced before this because repair men kept telling I didn't want a Bosch.  So of the sixteen years in this house the first 11 yrs had kitchen aid that we continually repaired or replaced.  Current Bosch dishwasher we've had about four years and it is still wonderful.  I will say we run our dishwasher 1-3 times a day, especially when homeschooling and all five kids home for every meal.

Kitchen aid double wall oven was a lemon, broke every single year around Thanksgiving until I finally replaced it.  Kitchen aid fixed it for free for about six years, then would send the parts and I'd pay labor.  Replaced it with a GE profile double oven I love and has worked consistently well.

I have a Wolf five burner gas cooktop that is great.  No problems with it, sixteen years old now.

Only Original appliance from our build is the kitchen aid refrigerator which I'm looking to replace this year as it has developed a leak and most of the door shelves are broken and you can't get replacements so dh has taken to duct taping them together, really pretty.  I wish I had put in a Subzero refrigerator but couldn't justify the cost.  My parents have had them in their last two houses and they have been reliable.

 

[Miss Tick]

My biggest tip is to look at buying your appliances with a credit card that doubles the warranty. Many of them do this, and it has paid for a washing machine that threw a gear one week out of warranty, and also a fridge that needed a new mother board after 6 months. I was obviously not happy with either situation, but once repaired they have covered along quietly doing their jobs for many years.

[PeterPan]

10 hours ago, Clarita said:

I thought I would be disappointed with the lack of heating element to dry my dishes but I really haven't been. If I don't pull them out right away they are dry; if I pull them immediately I get a face full of steam and pretty dry. I would really like a garbage disposal built in to my dishwasher, something to think about for the next dishwasher. 

Zero issues with the drying on the KA. As you say it uses some kind of fan system now that works great and doesn't crack/destroy my plastic lids. The KA does have the grinder and it has an improved food/pre-catch system. The bosch is the catch at the top, right?

I'm not saying the KA is better than the Bosch because I'm not sure it technically is. KA is just, as usual, more american and nicer (finishes, how the racks rolls, grips, etc.). As long as the stupid thing keeps working, it's a great unit. I guess ask me in a year, lol. I'm assuming they'll fix whatever wasn't quite right with this redesign. I've had KA dws for over 20 years, so this is my 4th. (I have 3 in this house.) 

At one point dh had dibs on a commercial dw, which really would have been fun. (90 second cycles?) Oh well. 

That's why to me, I think put your money where it makes you happy. For what I cook, a better stove would not have made me more happy or a better cook. However having the extra DW, that makes my life better. 

[PeterPan]

3 hours ago, SusanC said:

a credit card that doubles the warranty.

How had I never noticed this?? What a good tip!

[PeterPan]

9 hours ago, Bootsie said:

I don't care for French doors either.  For the cheese/deli tray we definitely had to open both doors.  But, we found that for many things both doors had to be opened--which either resullted in using both hands to open the fridge, take the item out place it one the counter, and then close the fridge with both hands.  Or, if using one had to open and close both doors of the fridge we had to do this awkward cross-body movement.

See I'm NOT crazy. 

8 hours ago, Bootsie said:

I was so excited when we moved into a rental that had my dream Bosch dishwasher in it--but when we actually used it, no one liked it.  It was difficult to load.  Some of our dishes just didn't fit and and it would not hold as much as other dishwashers I have used.  

Yeah, that's why we took a chance with the KA. I took dishes into the store (a plate and bowl in a large purse, wrapped in a towel, haha) and it was pretty obvious we would be happier with the KA. But who knows, in a year we could be wishing we had gotten the Bosch if it continues to have problems after the warranty.

[BeachGal]

I'm considering buying a Bertazzoni gas range. My kitchen is small so smaller appliances fit much better. Anyhoo, any thoughts on Bertazzoni?

Bertazzoni 24" Master Series Stainless Steel Gas Range - MAST244GASXE

Abt link  We live within 30" of the Abt store.

[Lanny]

Follow-on to my first reply in this thread. Yesterday, I included our Samsung Microwave Oven and of all of the Samsung things we have purchased over the years, I believe that my DW should have taken it back, a week or so after she bought it, and exchanged it for another brand. That was perhaps 8  years ago?  Well, I may have jinxed the Microwave Oven...    Yesterday in the afternoon, DW put something into it and when she programmed the timing, instead of it starting, it died... 

This morning DD told me there is an Error Code about the Keypad.  I told DD that either means the Keypad is defective or the operation was programmed wrong. I assume the Keypad died.

It is a large Microwave Oven and certainly wasn't the least expensive one in the Superstore that day, but it did last a lot longer than I thought it would after she brought it home... 

We've had great service from a bunch of Samsung TV sets and the Washing Machine and Samsung Cell phones. It's our "go to" brand but it's not a "high end" brand.  The best TV repairman I have ever seen working on a TV was here in Colombia in this house, about 15 years ago. He came on a motorcycle and when I saw that, I thought to myself, "they made a mistake, he needs to take it to the shop", but he took it apart in our house, diagnosed the issues, gave us the quotation and left with the Motherboard on his motorcycle.  He returned 2 or 3 days later with the Motherboard, installed it, and the TV set worked for years after that. 

The most disappointing trend I have noticed, in multiple threads on WTM Chat over the years,  about extremely high end refrigerator/freezers,  is that many of them die, almost immediately after purchase...

Edited July 19, 2021 by Lanny
Corrected error: Changed Dishwasher to Microwave Oven

[Carol in Cal.]

41 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

See I'm NOT crazy. 

Yeah, that's why we took a chance with the KA. I took dishes into the store (a plate and bowl in a large purse, wrapped in a towel, haha) and it was pretty obvious we would be happier with the KA. But who knows, in a year we could be wishing we had gotten the Bosch if it continues to have problems after the warranty.

I did this, too, and was pleasantly surprised by another feature in the high end KitchenAid—it can wash throughout the machine, but you can also set it to wash just the upper rack (and presumably the third rack tray) but not the bottom.  This is attractive to me as an aging in place benefit, since I think getting things in and out of a very low bottom rack could become difficult over time.  And the upper rack has height adjustments that could lower it enough for dinner plates!

[Clarita]

10 hours ago, Bootsie said:

I was so excited when we moved into a rental that had my dream Bosch dishwasher in it--but when we actually used it, no one liked it.  It was difficult to load.  Some of our dishes just didn't fit and and it would not hold as much as other dishwashers I have used.  

For dishes you definitely have to bring your dishes to try. Sometimes what works for one family's dishes does not work for another. 

[sheryl]

Oh my word!  I am just now seeing this.  My day was busy and I will need Monday night and Tuesday to catch up.  Will be back later.........

[melmichigan]

I just replaced my 20 year old Whirlpool front load washer/dryer with Maytag high end.  I replaced my 30-year old stove and 20-year old refrigerator with like high end Whirlpool, and my Maytag dishwasher is getting an upgrade after 10 years of daily running while I was at it.  If you buy Samsung or LG in my area good luck finding parts or someone to repair them.  I did buy the warranty for the kitchen set because it includes all the filters and is refunded 50% if I don't file a claim.  I seriously considered Kitchen-Aid, but didn't want to wait until later fall for what I wanted.

Everything more high end that relatives have purchased have been very expensive to repair, or end up being replaced much sooner than expected.

Edited July 20, 2021 by melmichigan

[gardenmom5]

On 7/18/2021 at 3:06 PM, sheryl said:

 

Are high end appliances worth it?   

Anyone here care to chime in?

On my wishlist for high end would be French 3 door refrigerator/bottom freezer - NOT the new 4 door pantry and EITHER a wall oven and cooktop OR large oven/cooktop.  Thinking professional grade, gas burners. 

Looking at Subzero/Wolf, Viking, Thermador..............now, you're turn.  If you have one please state what/model/link/age and if you'd recommend!

🙂

 

It really is going to vary.  I, sadly, don't have space for the large (they're not all created equal, and since they have so much more insulation, they tend to be narrower than a range) double wall oven and cooktop I would have liked.  Or the 60" thermidor dh would have liked.

read reviews: AND . . . measure.  It's amazing how much oven sizes vary.  Just because it "looks" big, doesn't mean it is.  And BTUs . . (I have a duel fuel).  A lot of the "professional style" - are just that.  Emphasis on the "style" as opposed to actual function.  Then again, read reviews . . . . For both performance, and repair.  and exactly how much finely tuned cooking do you do?

I looked at fridges at a  high end place (found a better deal elsewhere) - so I was looking at the higher end.  can you open the interior drawers with just one door open?

I bought my dishwasher there.  It was as special order configuration for them, so an exclusive.  (more than rack arrangement itself).  Bosch 800 something.  i. love. it.  Worth every penny.  And it cleans.  My last dishwasher was a high end kitchen aid.  piece of junk and I wanted to replace it within three months.  I hated it.

[Resilient]

We got a non-electronic professional-grade range and I am glad about that for this reason.  Electronic panels fail and they are expensive to replace. However, most professional cooks use much higher temps than us normal people...so on the dial, from High to Medium to Low, I get to use about 20% of it.  Low to low-medium.  That's it.  I can use Medium with a large pot to boil water...but cooking? No. So I say no to Professional.  Get the high-end appliances, but without electronic controls, if possible.

[Clarita]

On 7/18/2021 at 3:06 PM, sheryl said:

Are high end appliances worth it?  We are "working" here and there and everywhere to sell this house and buy another.  These appliances will be for our next house. I have my preference of buying high end only because I believe the true high end appliances may have the durable components which will last longer with fewer problems.

Also with some high end appliances you are paying for some special feature(s) not just durability. So, you may not have to go to the very expensive if you really don't care. Oven special features might be temperature range, steam injection, convection capabilities, telescoping racks, size, door configuration etc. Cooktops special features might be temperature range (BTUs), burner configurations, etc. Refrigerators how much ice it can make, special compartments, door configurations, etc. 

[sheryl]

On 7/18/2021 at 8:45 PM, PeterPan said:

I chose *not* to do them or ask for them when we built our house. I had spent a lot of years gathering catalogs, going to showrooms, dreaming. Reasons? Maybe nothing that applies to you.

-realized I didn't want to cook with gas

-didn't want to put in that level of ventilation

-didn't want the noise

-realized I like a deeper frig, not counter depth

This is just my two cents, but I think the best reasons to get the commercial style residential appliances are when you want the features. With any upscale product (cars, GE appliances vs. Kenmore, etc.) the price of the repairs also goes up. 

I think if you need/use the features those appliances bring (separate condensors for frig/freezer which we must now call fridge/freezer, higher BTUs, etc.) then whatever draw backs happen (higher ventilation costs, noise, slower warming, whatever) won't matter. However you can also find products that are kind of middle of the road (upper end lines) that split the difference.

I really don't know about the lasting longer question. I've never had an issue feeling like my appliances don't last an expected amount. Well I say that and my 13 yo all frig bit the dust a couple months ago. That really bites because it was part of a matched set. I got busy with HBOT and haven't figured out if it's fixable or not, sigh. It's in the mudroom glaring at me.

I would get them because you want the features. If you want to know what is reliable, talk with a repair company you trust and let them give you the scoop. They know. And then figure out who your repair person is going to be if you go with these brands. If you live in a big city, no problem. You definitely want to make sure you'll be happen with the distance they're driving and how long it will take you to get service. 

Right,  those are features we do want.  Definitely want gas. Ventilation I need to understand this process "fully".  Noise - I'm assuming some brands are noisier/quieter than others (?), and deeper frig - we have counter depth now and like that.  Would like built in but not spending that money for a "look".  

Agree - "middle of the road" is perhaps where I need to focus!  Like that idea.  I see now I may not need higher end.  Nor do I want the least expensive piece of junk.  Middle of road of slightly above will be my new focus.  

All good advice to talk to a repair service company.  Higher end may yield higher repair costs, higher bills.  What is HBOT?  I really don't know these well.  There used to be a list on wtm but can't find it.  

I do like a the features of a "meaty" professional gas range.  Our refrigerator was cheap and bought 5 years ago because it was a "tide me over" thinking we were going to sell then but we weren't ready.  You get what you pay for because this piece of junk did not last.  

 

[sheryl]

On 7/18/2021 at 6:23 PM, Carol in Cal. said:

I don’t know of high end appliances with electronics that are super reliable.

I would be delighted to be proven wrong.  All current fridges seem to have about a 15% bad failure rate—higher if they have lots of water handling.  

I look at online reviews and that is my conclusion.

The last time I needed a fridge I bought a Samsung BUT I carefully bought one that does not have a permanent freezer compartment so that I could avoid the built in ice making/water handling stuff that I would not use anyway.  It is not as deeply cold as older models (all of the new ones seem to be built to run most of the time to just stay reasonably cold as an energy saving measure) so I have a noisy old dented fridge in the basement that I keep meat and milk in until just a day before use, which keeps it colder generally, and also I invested in Tupperware Fridge Smart containers for produce and a big stack of flexible plastic ice cube trays.  One thing I love about this fridge is that it is dead quiet.  Since it’s in a great room, that is really nice.

I seriously considered Subzero but it does not seem to be any more reliable than the rest in the online reviews I researched.  I was very disappointed by that.
 

For a stove, you might actually get better performance from a professional type stove like Viking.  Whether these are more reliable I don’t know.  Also, I think having a wall oven is going to be increasingly important as I get older and less willing to bend over and lift a very heavy roasting pan from near the floor.  A warming oven drawer is VERY nice, and if I were getting new appliances I would look for one with a specific temperature setting instead of just ‘warm, warmer, warmest’ so that I could make just one tray of cookies or appetizers in it at a time.  

For a dishwasher I still think KA is the best available.  And the new ones are dead quiet.  I considered Miele but it requires more fussing than I was willing to do, whereas the high end KA is pretty self-cleaning.  Bosch is popular here but I like to wash pots and the diagonal tines would not work for me for that.

OK, don't understand.  Refrigerators have sections - one for cooling and one for freezing.  Enlighten me here.  When did you research subzero?  How old is research?  I'm wondering if current reviews are better.  Viking, yes, looking in to that brand.  Is there a model for KA dishwasher that you could send me? 

[Splash1]

If I built again or totally redesigned my kitchen instead of a  double wall oven I would buy two separate wall ovens or a range plus a wall oven for cost reasons.  Also the cost of the built in microwave was much more expensive so I don't think I'd do that again either for replacement costs along with the limited models that fit that specific spot.  

[SanDiegoMom]

I have two anecdotes to add:  We bought a house 5 years ago and it came with a french door fridge.  The fridge was 4 years old.  When it hit five years old the compressor went and the repairs were not worth it so we bought a new one.  Fast forward to last year when we moved and bought a house that came with a much more expensive 5 year old french door fridge. (LG, linear compressor, super fancy looking)   Within three weeks it broke.  When we replaced the first fridge I did a lot of research and it seemed like french door fridges had the most reliability issues.  Regular freezer on top had the least and side by sides were in the middle.  Because having a water and ice dispenser is so important to us, we replaced both with side by sides.  The space is lacking definitely, but we just want it to last longer than five years.

In our last house we had a stove that was a double oven, but the top one was small with just one rack.  It was awesome.  It preheated in like 3 minutes, and I used it so much more than the bottom oven.  I loved it! 

[sheryl]

On 7/18/2021 at 8:52 PM, PeterPan said:

Back 15+ years ago the european models were the high end stuff. Then the domestics started competing that way. Bosch got bought by (I forget). To me you don't need the hassle of something that is hard to repair. If there are repair places within say 30 minutes, then it can be on the table.

I bought a new KA (top of the line probably) dw about a year ago. Thing cleans great, except when it completely stops, lol. We've had a tech out 3 times and he called it frankenstein, tried new brains, I don't know. In general I prefer american products because I like the size, the way they handle, etc. So if the stupid thing stays on, my preference is to use it over a bosch. You can go to Best Buy and see this stuff for yourself.

For the european stuff and higher end, there are stores in the big city. You should go! I was super in love with Dacor I think back in the day. Do you like your sister's Viking? Maybe she'd let you over to cook. Me, I've decided I like low key cleaning. My mother gets kicks out of picking all those grates up on her stove. Not me, lol.

I guess see your layout. You can always throw an extra oven or the main stove into your basement to have an extra oven. I wouldn't give up counter space for them.

Instead of appliances, have you thought about a remodel? I have 30" deep counters (well technically 29" because my arms are short) and they're life changing. You could take the existing lower cabs, fur them out, new counter tops, boom. That's function. I have these cooling racks that are the size of a sheet pan and I can line them up straight. Buffets, noodles, anything where you want space.

Do you have model for KA dw?  Is there a kink in the hose causing it to stop?  We've found many answers on You Tube tutorials.  Techs as hard as they try don't always have all the answers.  Have not heard of Dacor.  I like a professional meaty-looking range.  BUT, I like low maintenance.  Maybe the two don't meet IDK. 

We will not remodel kitchen.  Is that what you're talking about?  We're upgrading in other areas to sell this house and buy locally.

[sheryl]

On 7/18/2021 at 8:52 PM, Clarita said:

I LOVE my Bosch. It was much better than my previous which was the high end  Sears Kenmore brand. Things are actually water tight. (Kenmore broke because water got into the control panel who knew the dishwasher would have water near it). I liked it so much I got a second one. 

I LOVE my dacor double oven; I don't find that it pre-heats anymore slowly than my  friend's ovens. The heat inside the oven is even, meaning any recipe that tell you to rotate the dish or whatever just ignore put the dish wherever in the oven and take it out when it's done. Using the temperature probe to cook meat, in theory I would like it except that I think it turns down the heat too fast. (Essentially, when the meat probe reaches a particular temperature it turns down the oven to warm, but it does it when the meat just reaches the temperature so I feel sometimes it leaves it a little underdone.) I had to fix the relay on it; we bought the part and fixed it ourselves. The fix was pretty easy just had to pull out the oven and plug in the new part. We live in a populous so even if we had to find a repair person it wouldn't have been hard.

I do like my Thermador gas cooktop. It's my first gas cooktop so I love it because it's fast. No complaints on it so far. It's cheaper than Viking or Wolf but when we looked at it we weren't sure there was a great performance difference between it and them.

We got a big fridge with french door top with a freezer drawer bottom. I chose it for the size (biggest I could find), but without a lot of dedicated space for ice maker.  

Yes, my husband loves cooking so I get all the kitchen toys.

Thanks for your review.  How old are your appliances and have you had them serviced?  Your cooktop or dw? Do you have an exterior water/ice maker?  I'm leaning now on not getting the exterior but interior ice maker.  

[sheryl]

On 7/18/2021 at 8:57 PM, PeterPan said:

Yeah, Samsung seems to be flashy outside, leaving you wondering about the inside. 

The reason the DWs go is because of the way they vent. Well other reasons too but the venting is a big one. The vent during the drying cycle can be forcing hot moist air around where those circuit boards are. Computers and water, imagine that having problems. And my new KA is a redesign from what I can tell. I was desperate and had to pounce anyway. I have two dws and we use both at least once everyday. How we do that with 3 people, I don't know, lol. I think we just use big bowls, lol. We were going insane with only one dw.

That's what I'm saying. Me, I'm all about function. Two dws, deeper caps, a frig with enough door storage and depth to hold the things I typically put in. These were important to me. I don't like french doors btw. Over my dead body would I have one. I'm super picky on that, lol. I took laundry baskets with all the contents of my frig to the store and tried them in each frig to figure out the differences. 

Wow, did not know that about dw but am copying/pasting in to my ongoing document now.  These replies are quite helpful and making for a nice list.  I've had every refrig/freezer combo and the French door is the best imo.  Or, the 4 door French with 2 bottom baskets.  Very creative with your frig contents.  So, you took empty bottles, etc?  That is so darn creative and to the point.  Real life demonstration won't lie. 

[sheryl]

On 7/18/2021 at 9:03 PM, PeterPan said:

I guess the comment on the size of the burners doesn't make sense to me. The small, lower wattage burners of an electric stove would pair with smaller pans. You wouldn't be trying to put a *large* pan on a *small* electric burner. Now I never noticed on my mothers pro style gas. Are all the burner BTUs the same? Then presumably they're positioned for that. 

Remember, you go putting in those BTUs, you better budget for the ventilation.

OK, I don't remember what I was replying to but someone (you?) mentioned that the burners are crowded with their pots/pans handles turned inward, I believe.  I don't want crowded cookware on the stove top.

[sheryl]

On 7/18/2021 at 9:03 PM, Carol in Cal. said:

Another thing to think about.  All those doors, like in the French door fridges?  They take up a lot of fridge space so you have less room than you think for food.  It’s … alarming.

Well, not really though.  One needs to check the cubic square feet.  That is the interior capacity.  It comes down to looks, function and design.  I know that most of these appliances are copy cat versions of one another but I do believe higher quality material and craftsmanship is found as price tag goes up - at least to a point.  

[sheryl]

On 7/18/2021 at 9:59 PM, Carol in Cal. said:

Yes, I know.  It was just that … I was looking for a fridge, not a stove. 

But I like to cook and have wanted a really good stove for a long time.

So I started looking at the stoves, which I almost never have occasion to do.  I have never in my life bought a stove.  And I found this one that I really liked.  Electric oven, gas burners, a high BTU burner for those heavy wok nights, and a total of 5 burners.  Sleek, came in white, checked all my boxes.  It might have even had a second oven—I think so.

And I was ready to do the suite thing.  We needed a dishwasher and fridge at the cabin, and the stove at home would have been a nice upgrade, and there were discounts and and and…

But the stove just looked funny to me, and when I got my pots I could see that it would not help my cooking, but rather would impair it, compared with my old one, which is awfully funny.  That old one has 4 small gas burners.  ALL small.  Very annoying to think that that piece of junk was better than this new one.  I nosed around for one that was less crowded and failed to find one.  The ones that had controls on the front had bigger towers taking up space in the back, and the burners were consistently closer together than on my old stove.

(And, it turned out that the new dishwashers are slightly taller than the old ones, so the only way to replace the one at the cabin is to do major surgery on a tile counter.  We elected to have it repaired, even though it sounds like a dying garbage truck and needs to be babied a lot.  So the suite was out anyway.)

 

You and others have circled around to my opinion about quality.  Many times the older whatever (car, appliances, etc) were made better. The features may not be as efficient but the quality is there.  Maybe not all the time but many times. 

[sheryl]

On 7/18/2021 at 10:31 PM, cjzimmer1 said:

 

Another option if you are really worried about the glass and cast iron is to get an induction cooktop.  Just toss a silicone mat on the burner and set your cast iron pan on top.  The magnetic field passed right through the silicone mat so you don't lose any burner efficiancy but since cast iron isn't actually touching the glass you don't have to worry about scratches.

I do not trust myself with a glass cooktop.  Thanks for the idea!  If I accidentally mishandled the cast iron which is Lodge cast iron with  NO coating, I'm afraid I'd crack the cooktop.

[Carol in Cal.]

4 minutes ago, sheryl said:

You and others have circled around to my opinion about quality.  Many times the older whatever (car, appliances, etc) were made better. The features may not be as efficient but the quality is there.  Maybe not all the time but many times. 

Generally the older ones, particularly if they involve washing (washing machines or dishwashers) or cooling, are less energy efficient but MUCH more reliable and long-lasting.  This also applies to furnaces.

 

[Carol in Cal.]

1 hour ago, sheryl said:

OK, don't understand.  Refrigerators have sections - one for cooling and one for freezing.  Enlighten me here.  When did you research subzero?  How old is research?  I'm wondering if current reviews are better.  Viking, yes, looking in to that brand.  Is there a model for KA dishwasher that you could send me? 

Samsung generally is considered an unreliable fridge brand, and I still can’t believe I bought one.

However, unfortunately it seems like now all the quiet fridges also have electronics, which means they are inherently more vulnerable to break down than the loud mechanical ones, and I NEEDED quiet.  The great room where this fridge was going was open to the upstairs, so noises would be heard in the master bedroom in addition to the kitchen/living room/dining room areas.  I thought I would be stuck with an ice maker and would turn it off every night, but learned that that meant I would never have ice as they take almost a day to get working, every time.  So clearly ice making was out.

So why I bought a Samsung is that I found one with a freezer compartment (on top, unfortunately) that could be set at fridge temp or freezer temp.  Because of that, it did not take up any space with built in water or ice handling.  You could install an ice maker in the freezer compartment but they didn’t force it in since you could also choose to use that compartment for additional fridge space.  It was also super quiet.  So I bought the extended warranty and got it, and it has been…OK.  

The KA dishwasher we got about 3 years ago.  I don’t know where the model number is, but it was the highest end one at the local non-Lowes appliance store.  It had 3 racks, and an extra spraying function to reach the very edges of the corners.  It is electronic (unavoidable with the good ones now), but also it’s dead quiet so I can program a delayed start and have it turn itself on in the middle of the night if I want to.  I LOVE it.  

[Carol in Cal.]

21 minutes ago, sheryl said:

Well, not really though.  One needs to check the cubic square feet.  That is the interior capacity.  It comes down to looks, function and design.  I know that most of these appliances are copy cat versions of one another but I do believe higher quality material and craftsmanship is found as price tag goes up - at least to a point.  

True, but in my case I have specific enclosure sizes for a fridge, and so giving up square footage for drawers, doors, and water handling is truly less room for food as I don’t have the option to get a bigger fridge than the enclosure.

[sheryl]

On 7/18/2021 at 10:33 PM, rutheart said:

I would live in the new house for at least six months before investing in more expensive appliances. When we moved into our new construction house, we had to replace the washer (caught fire while full of water), dryer, dishwasher, and stove in the first year. It turned out that the local utility has a lot of surges. We have surge protectors with battery backup on our computers and they would alarm multiple times a day. The frequent surges were wrecking our electrical panel. We put a whole house surge protector on the panel and haven't lost any appliances since then (and the computer surge protectors are quiet except for electrical outages). Before we got married, my husband moved to an older house that also had electrical issues (i.e. turning on the stove gave you an electrical shock). You just want to make sure the electrical will not damage your new expensive appliances.

Now that we have fixed our electrical issues, we have bought a Kitchenaid dishwasher and stove. I haven't had the stove long enough to review, but I love the dishwasher. It's quiet enough that we can watch tv in the den without raising the volume (there is just an open bar between the two rooms). The third rack has also really come in handy and cut down on the number of loads run every day. I have never regretted spending the extra money on it.

We have a french door Frigidaire with the freezer on the bottom. We loved it so much in our last house that we bought another one when we moved here. It and the microwave were the only original appliances that survived all the surges.

Absolutely but I don't want to wait to research.  Sure, there may be slight model changes but I need to have some idea now so that when we move in we are ready to order.  It may be our next house will have "good" appliances.  Then we wouldn't replace but be ready in case one will go out in the future or "when" it will go out.  SURGE - very good point.  We live in NC and during storms we will constantly have power surges AND power outages.  Unfortunately with the new design of digital, etc the motherboard gets fried.  So, now we unplug when it's obvious a storm is coming. We have surge protectors as well but I don't know if it protects "totally".  Do you have surge protectors then on "every" cord?  Tell me about it.  The number of people on a grid will be an indicator as to the likelihood of a power outage, many times.  We were joined with many neighbors in a power outage last year.  We learned from the crew that we were on one grid and they moved us to another.  Weird but the opposite side of the street will stay lit (they must be on a separate grid) than our side when we lose power.  One time we lost power when neighbors NEXT to us did not.  That's not good!  That is more house-specific.  Good to know yet another vote for KA dw and Frigidaire is owned by Electrolux which I've always liked.  

[sheryl]

On 7/18/2021 at 10:36 PM, Tap said:

I have used cast iron daily on all 3 of my glass top stoves for 27 years. No problem what so ever. The only damage I have done is nicking the enamel which had nothing to do with it being glass. 

My cast iron is full iron no enamel.

[sheryl]

On 7/19/2021 at 3:29 AM, Bootsie said:

I don't care for French doors either.  For the cheese/deli tray we definitely had to open both doors.  But, we found that for many things both doors had to be opened--which either resullted in using both hands to open the fridge, take the item out place it one the counter, and then close the fridge with both hands.  Or, if using one had to open and close both doors of the fridge we had to do this awkward cross-body movement.

I hear ya but will organize to avoid that.  The bottom to me is worth it.  I already "stack" accordingly so will carry over.  Maybe I'll consider the 2 bottom drawers/baskets. 

[sheryl]

On 7/19/2021 at 3:50 AM, DawnM said:

Are you planning to build a house?   Otherwise you might be pleasantly surprised by finding a house with nice appliances already there.

Hey Dawn!  Well, IDK.  We're looking at existing real estate now.  Just can't find our preferences (layout, location, etc).  YES!  If there are decent appliances already there I'll wait a bit.  See, this post comes on the heels of our CURRENT refrigerator not working.  We're not going to fix it anymore so I'm currently looking for a replacement for this one here.  Our current one was a set - Whirlpool.  Big mistake but as was mentioned earlier we bought the set about 5 years ago thinking we were moving then but didn't.  POOR quality.  You get what you pay for.   I buy Dollar Tree readers for $1 but the HT version for $15 (still cheap) lasts longer.  Build - I'm leaning to no as I've heard that the (here we go again) quality just isn't there as it was years ago.  We have crown molding and a wainscoting.  I guess these are not standard on custom homes.   Add on here and add on there for what additional cost? IDK!

[sheryl]

On 7/19/2021 at 8:21 AM, Splash1 said:

I love my Bosch model SHX68TL5UC.  It took me a bit to learn how to load it but once I did, its been great.  We had high end Kitchen Aid dishwashers (3) that we continually repaired and replaced before this because repair men kept telling I didn't want a Bosch.  So of the sixteen years in this house the first 11 yrs had kitchen aid that we continually repaired or replaced.  Current Bosch dishwasher we've had about four years and it is still wonderful.  I will say we run our dishwasher 1-3 times a day, especially when homeschooling and all five kids home for every meal.

Kitchen aid double wall oven was a lemon, broke every single year around Thanksgiving until I finally replaced it.  Kitchen aid fixed it for free for about six years, then would send the parts and I'd pay labor.  Replaced it with a GE profile double oven I love and has worked consistently well.

I have a Wolf five burner gas cooktop that is great.  No problems with it, sixteen years old now.

Only Original appliance from our build is the kitchen aid refrigerator which I'm looking to replace this year as it has developed a leak and most of the door shelves are broken and you can't get replacements so dh has taken to duct taping them together, really pretty.  I wish I had put in a Subzero refrigerator but couldn't justify the cost.  My parents have had them in their last two houses and they have been reliable.

 

What model or years were your ka dw? So many here swear by them that I'm now interested!  Good to know on Wolf and SZ

On 7/19/2021 at 9:26 AM, SusanC said:

My biggest tip is to look at buying your appliances with a credit card that doubles the warranty. Many of them do this, and it has paid for a washing machine that threw a gear one week out of warranty, and also a fridge that needed a new mother board after 6 months. I was obviously not happy with either situation, but once repaired they have covered along quietly doing their jobs for many years.

HUH????  I do not understand.  Do you mean cash back?  Excellent reminder.  

22 hours ago, PeterPan said:

Zero issues with the drying on the KA. As you say it uses some kind of fan system now that works great and doesn't crack/destroy my plastic lids. The KA does have the grinder and it has an improved food/pre-catch system. The bosch is the catch at the top, right?

I'm not saying the KA is better than the Bosch because I'm not sure it technically is. KA is just, as usual, more american and nicer (finishes, how the racks rolls, grips, etc.). As long as the stupid thing keeps working, it's a great unit. I guess ask me in a year, lol. I'm assuming they'll fix whatever wasn't quite right with this redesign. I've had KA dws for over 20 years, so this is my 4th. (I have 3 in this house.) 

At one point dh had dibs on a commercial dw, which really would have been fun. (90 second cycles?) Oh well. 

That's why to me, I think put your money where it makes you happy. For what I cook, a better stove would not have made me more happy or a better cook. However having the extra DW, that makes my life better. 

So the ka dw uses a fan instead of what to dry?  

[sheryl]

22 hours ago, BeachGal said:

I'm considering buying a Bertazzoni gas range. My kitchen is small so smaller appliances fit much better. Anyhoo, any thoughts on Bertazzoni?

Bertazzoni 24" Master Series Stainless Steel Gas Range - MAST244GASXE

Abt link  We live within 30" of the Abt store.

I am clueless and that's why I'm asking but I'm all ears to what others may say!

[sheryl]

22 hours ago, Lanny said:

Follow-on to my first reply in this thread. Yesterday, I included our Samsung Microwave Oven and of all of the Samsung things we have purchased over the years, I believe that my DW should have taken it back, a week or so after she bought it, and exchanged it for another brand. That was perhaps 8  years ago?  Well, I may have jinxed the Microwave Oven...    Yesterday in the afternoon, DW put something into it and when she programmed the timing, instead of it starting, it died... 

This morning DD told me there is an Error Code about the Keypad.  I told DD that either means the Keypad is defective or the operation was programmed wrong. I assume the Keypad died.

It is a large Microwave Oven and certainly wasn't the least expensive one in the Superstore that day, but it did last a lot longer than I thought it would after she brought it home... 

We've had great service from a bunch of Samsung TV sets and the Washing Machine and Samsung Cell phones. It's our "go to" brand but it's not a "high end" brand.  The best TV repairman I have ever seen working on a TV was here in Colombia in this house, about 15 years ago. He came on a motorcycle and when I saw that, I thought to myself, "they made a mistake, he needs to take it to the shop", but he took it apart in our house, diagnosed the issues, gave us the quotation and left with the Motherboard on his motorcycle.  He returned 2 or 3 days later with the Motherboard, installed it, and the TV set worked for years after that. 

The most disappointing trend I have noticed, in multiple threads on WTM Chat over the years,  about extremely high end refrigerator/freezers,  is that many of them die, almost immediately after purchase...

Oh, Lanny, sorry to hear that!

[sheryl]

12 hours ago, melmichigan said:

I just replaced my 20 year old Whirlpool front load washer/dryer with Maytag high end.  I replaced my 30-year old stove and 20-year old refrigerator with like high end Whirlpool, and my Maytag dishwasher is getting an upgrade after 10 years of daily running while I was at it.  If you buy Samsung or LG in my area good luck finding parts or someone to repair them.  I did buy the warranty for the kitchen set because it includes all the filters and is refunded 50% if I don't file a claim.  I seriously considered Kitchen-Aid, but didn't want to wait until later fall for what I wanted.

Everything more high end that relatives have purchased have been very expensive to repair, or end up being replaced much sooner than expected.

Mel, I'm glad yours are working for our.  Our Whirlpool set we purchased about 5 years ago is mostly junk!  It is not durable.  As I mentioned to a pp, many of the older appliances are sturdier, more durable/made better.  It seems things are built to "not" last as long.

[PeterPan]

8 minutes ago, sheryl said:

What model or years were your ka dw? So many here swear by them that I'm now interested! 

Just want to make sure you're catching that i'm NOT saying KA is more reliable than Bosch, only that when reality hits and you have to load it the KA may win.

[sheryl]

11 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

It really is going to vary.  I, sadly, don't have space for the large (they're not all created equal, and since they have so much more insulation, they tend to be narrower than a range) double wall oven and cooktop I would have liked.  Or the 60" thermidor dh would have liked.

read reviews: AND . . . measure.  It's amazing how much oven sizes vary.  Just because it "looks" big, doesn't mean it is.  And BTUs . . (I have a duel fuel).  A lot of the "professional style" - are just that.  Emphasis on the "style" as opposed to actual function.  Then again, read reviews . . . . For both performance, and repair.  and exactly how much finely tuned cooking do you do?

I looked at fridges at a  high end place (found a better deal elsewhere) - so I was looking at the higher end.  can you open the interior drawers with just one door open?

I bought my dishwasher there.  It was as special order configuration for them, so an exclusive.  (more than rack arrangement itself).  Bosch 800 something.  i. love. it.  Worth every penny.  And it cleans.  My last dishwasher was a high end kitchen aid.  piece of junk and I wanted to replace it within three months.  I hated it.

This is why I'm asking people for models b/c KA is strongly supported in this thread.  How old/year was your ka and how long did you have it?

[sheryl]

10 hours ago, Resilient said:

We got a non-electronic professional-grade range and I am glad about that for this reason.  Electronic panels fail and they are expensive to replace. However, most professional cooks use much higher temps than us normal people...so on the dial, from High to Medium to Low, I get to use about 20% of it.  Low to low-medium.  That's it.  I can use Medium with a large pot to boil water...but cooking? No. So I say no to Professional.  Get the high-end appliances, but without electronic controls, if possible.

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   I do not want the electronics for the reason you stated.  Do you have recs/links?

[PeterPan]

2 minutes ago, sheryl said:

Our Whirlpool set we purchased about 5 years ago is mostly junk! 

Maybe it's your power issues, because it should have lasted longer. I think the all frig, all freezer set I have in my mudroom is Whirlpool. It's fine. The frig is no longer cooling and I think it's probably done. Last 13 years, which seems pretty middle of the road reasonable for a modern appliance. My guess is the 5 year thing is your location.

Maybe have in an electrician and ask them what you can do to get the wiring more stable. I have no clue, just saying. 

[Miss Tick]

4 minutes ago, sheryl said:

HUH????  I do not understand.  Do you mean cash back?  Excellent reminder.  

My credit card will automatically double the manufacturer's warranty for appliances we buy using the credit card. This used to be a big thing, but I don't see it advertised much anymore. This is helpful because most appliances are tuned to an average minimum life that is equivalent to the warranty terms. Thus my washer broke one week after the warranty ended and the motherboard on my fridge died a month past the warranty term. However, since i had purchased both using a credit card that extended the warranty I was able to contact the credit card company for instructions on getting the appliance repaired at no cost to me. It has been a while, I don't remember if they paid the appliance repair person directly or reimbursed me for the cost. Not a completely pain-free process, but totally worth it for the price of appliance repairs. Both of those appliances have gone on to live long, productive lives. 😄

[PeterPan]

2 minutes ago, sheryl said:

This is why I'm asking people for models b/c KA is strongly supported in this thread.  How old/year was your ka and how long did you have it?

The reliability on the KA is not going to be about which model. The design is different and the design of the Bosch jut has a better reputation. When the gov't interfered and told everyone their dw had to run on less and less water, it screwed everything up. Only the companies that were already doing that had the technology reliably down. So things got worse and are getting better. Partly they're figuring it and partly I think I read that the new dws can use more water for certain cycles. I think our dw has that. It's something to look for. 

It's all trade offs. When my dh saw the Bosch (which I was planning to buy) he said no way and went KA. 

[gardenmom5]

2 minutes ago, sheryl said:

This is why I'm asking people for models b/c KA is strongly supported in this thread.  How old/year was your ka and how long did you have it?

Don't remember the year.  I'm sure it's a long discontinued model, but it was a high end model.. I despised it.  Oh, it was rated well by reviewers.

My bosch is 2 or 3 years old.  I love it.

 

[melmichigan]

12 minutes ago, sheryl said:

Mel, I'm glad yours are working for our.  Our Whirlpool set we purchased about 5 years ago is mostly junk!  It is not durable.  As I mentioned to a pp, many of the older appliances are sturdier, more durable/made better.  It seems things are built to "not" last as long.

Things are definitely not made to last as long as they used to be. 🙂  I kept my appliances until we couldn't get replacement parts for them.  We couldn't get parts for the washer or the refrigerator anymore. Now things aren't made to have parts replaced as readily.  My FIL just got rid of his upright freezer that was only 5 years old, because it was cheaper to buy a new one than to replace parts. I'm still holding onto my 1976 chest freezer. 🤞  I do tend to buy straight forward models, so no in the door ice/water, and dials as much as possible.  Sadly, the oven portion is digital this time around, which I was not happy about, but couldn't find an alternative I liked. If I could have gotten coils I would have. YMMV, as some people prefer the bells and whistles.

Edited July 20, 2021 by melmichigan

[sheryl]

1 hour ago, Carol in Cal. said:

Samsung generally is considered an unreliable fridge brand, and I still can’t believe I bought one.

However, unfortunately it seems like now all the quiet fridges also have electronics, which means they are inherently more vulnerable to break down than the loud mechanical ones, and I NEEDED quiet.  The great room where this fridge was going was open to the upstairs, so noises would be heard in the master bedroom in addition to the kitchen/living room/dining room areas.  I thought I would be stuck with an ice maker and would turn it off every night, but learned that that meant I would never have ice as they take almost a day to get working, every time.  So clearly ice making was out.

So why I bought a Samsung is that I found one with a freezer compartment (on top, unfortunately) that could be set at fridge temp or freezer temp.  Because of that, it did not take up any space with built in water or ice handling.  You could install an ice maker in the freezer compartment but they didn’t force it in since you could also choose to use that compartment for additional fridge space.  It was also super quiet.  So I bought the extended warranty and got it, and it has been…OK.  

The KA dishwasher we got about 3 years ago.  I don’t know where the model number is, but it was the highest end one at the local non-Lowes appliance store.  It had 3 racks, and an extra spraying function to reach the very edges of the corners.  It is electronic (unavoidable with the good ones now), but also it’s dead quiet so I can program a delayed start and have it turn itself on in the middle of the night if I want to.  I LOVE it.  

Yes.  Lanny, sorry about this but I agree with you, Carol.  At least here in the States.  I always wanted the Samsung French doors when I first saw them at Sears about 15 years ago.  Then they were so pretty but expensive.  Over the years I've heard many negative reviews on Samsung products and maybe just frigs.  DH and I do have Samsung Galaxy phones which we like! 

[sheryl]

1 hour ago, Carol in Cal. said:

Samsung generally is considered an unreliable fridge brand, and I still can’t believe I bought one.

However, unfortunately it seems like now all the quiet fridges also have electronics, which means they are inherently more vulnerable to break down than the loud mechanical ones, and I NEEDED quiet.  The great room where this fridge was going was open to the upstairs, so noises would be heard in the master bedroom in addition to the kitchen/living room/dining room areas.  I thought I would be stuck with an ice maker and would turn it off every night, but learned that that meant I would never have ice as they take almost a day to get working, every time.  So clearly ice making was out.

So why I bought a Samsung is that I found one with a freezer compartment (on top, unfortunately) that could be set at fridge temp or freezer temp.  Because of that, it did not take up any space with built in water or ice handling.  You could install an ice maker in the freezer compartment but they didn’t force it in since you could also choose to use that compartment for additional fridge space.  It was also super quiet.  So I bought the extended warranty and got it, and it has been…OK.  

The KA dishwasher we got about 3 years ago.  I don’t know where the model number is, but it was the highest end one at the local non-Lowes appliance store.  It had 3 racks, and an extra spraying function to reach the very edges of the corners.  It is electronic (unavoidable with the good ones now), but also it’s dead quiet so I can program a delayed start and have it turn itself on in the middle of the night if I want to.  I LOVE it.  

CAROL!  Are you saying you don't keep frozen food in your kitchen?   Or, is the 2 compartment "frig" the one in your great room?

[sheryl]

11 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

Just want to make sure you're catching that i'm NOT saying KA is more reliable than Bosch, only that when reality hits and you have to load it the KA may win.

Well, the majority in this thread like KA so I'm all ears for reasons other than loading.  Just want to have a choice and will continue to research.  

[sheryl]

10 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

Maybe it's your power issues, because it should have lasted longer. I think the all frig, all freezer set I have in my mudroom is Whirlpool. It's fine. The frig is no longer cooling and I think it's probably done. Last 13 years, which seems pretty middle of the road reasonable for a modern appliance. My guess is the 5 year thing is your location.

Maybe have in an electrician and ask them what you can do to get the wiring more stable. I have no clue, just saying. 

YEP, and I agree.   Thanks!  🙂

[sheryl]

12 minutes ago, SusanC said:

My credit card will automatically double the manufacturer's warranty for appliances we buy using the credit card. This used to be a big thing, but I don't see it advertised much anymore. This is helpful because most appliances are tuned to an average minimum life that is equivalent to the warranty terms. Thus my washer broke one week after the warranty ended and the motherboard on my fridge died a month past the warranty term. However, since i had purchased both using a credit card that extended the warranty I was able to contact the credit card company for instructions on getting the appliance repaired at no cost to me. It has been a while, I don't remember if they paid the appliance repair person directly or reimbursed me for the cost. Not a completely pain-free process, but totally worth it for the price of appliance repairs. Both of those appliances have gone on to live long, productive lives. 😄

Well, will still check in to this with a cc to see if one is still available.  Or, the scenario of opening a new cc for a rebate which would be less value than what you had but still something.  Are warranties worth it then?

[sheryl]

11 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

The reliability on the KA is not going to be about which model. The design is different and the design of the Bosch jut has a better reputation. When the gov't interfered and told everyone their dw had to run on less and less water, it screwed everything up. Only the companies that were already doing that had the technology reliably down. So things got worse and are getting better. Partly they're figuring it and partly I think I read that the new dws can use more water for certain cycles. I think our dw has that. It's something to look for. 

It's all trade offs. When my dh saw the Bosch (which I was planning to buy) he said no way and went KA. 

I hear you but PP it does depend "in part" on what model as there are low, mid and high range whatever appliance and configurations and features are different.