Appliances "upper/high end"

[sheryl]

So the title is a little intimidating and might indicate a level of snob!  NO!  I'm just so tired of cheap appliances that break down.  I'd rather sacrifice with not driving a new car (which I don't, mine's 11 years old) than on appliances.  

I did receive a little from my Dad upon his death in 2015.  

Are high end appliances worth it?  We are "working" here and there and everywhere to sell this house and buy another.  These appliances will be for our next house. I have my preference of buying high end only because I believe the true high end appliances may have the durable components which will last longer with fewer problems.

Anyone here care to chime in?

On my wishlist for high end would be French 3 door refrigerator/bottom freezer - NOT the new 4 door pantry and EITHER a wall oven and cooktop OR large oven/cooktop.  Thinking professional grade, gas burners. 

Looking at Subzero/Wolf, Viking, Thermador..............now, you're turn.  If you have one please state what/model/link/age and if you'd recommend!

🙂

 

Edited July 18, 2021 by sheryl

[Katy]

Don’t buy appliances for a house you haven’t bought yet. You don’t know if they’ll fit, if the house already come with high end appliances, and you really don’t want movers to damage something you’ll have to look at for years. 

I haven’t bought enough appliances to know if they’re worth it. I know when we had a new wall oven get repaired 5 times we were told not to buy Samsung again, and that kitchenaid made repairs & replacement part ordering extremely easy. 

[Carol in Cal.]

I don’t know of high end appliances with electronics that are super reliable.

I would be delighted to be proven wrong.  All current fridges seem to have about a 15% bad failure rate—higher if they have lots of water handling.  

I look at online reviews and that is my conclusion.

The last time I needed a fridge I bought a Samsung BUT I carefully bought one that does not have a permanent freezer compartment so that I could avoid the built in ice making/water handling stuff that I would not use anyway.  It is not as deeply cold as older models (all of the new ones seem to be built to run most of the time to just stay reasonably cold as an energy saving measure) so I have a noisy old dented fridge in the basement that I keep meat and milk in until just a day before use, which keeps it colder generally, and also I invested in Tupperware Fridge Smart containers for produce and a big stack of flexible plastic ice cube trays.  One thing I love about this fridge is that it is dead quiet.  Since it’s in a great room, that is really nice.

I seriously considered Subzero but it does not seem to be any more reliable than the rest in the online reviews I researched.  I was very disappointed by that.
 

For a stove, you might actually get better performance from a professional type stove like Viking.  Whether these are more reliable I don’t know.  Also, I think having a wall oven is going to be increasingly important as I get older and less willing to bend over and lift a very heavy roasting pan from near the floor.  A warming oven drawer is VERY nice, and if I were getting new appliances I would look for one with a specific temperature setting instead of just ‘warm, warmer, warmest’ so that I could make just one tray of cookies or appetizers in it at a time.  

For a dishwasher I still think KA is the best available.  And the new ones are dead quiet.  I considered Miele but it requires more fussing than I was willing to do, whereas the high end KA is pretty self-cleaning.  Bosch is popular here but I like to wash pots and the diagonal tines would not work for me for that.

[whitestavern]

21 minutes ago, Katy said:

Don’t buy appliances for a house you haven’t bought yet. You don’t know if they’ll fit, if the house already come with high end appliances, and you really don’t want movers to damage something you’ll have to look at for years. 

I haven’t bought enough appliances to know if they’re worth it. I know when we had a new wall oven get repaired 5 times we were told not to buy Samsung again, and that kitchenaid made repairs & replacement part ordering extremely easy. 

We bought a high end stove at a tag sale of all things (new) because the people had just moved in and the stove didn't fit. 

I know several family members who have had horrible luck with Viking stoves. 

[Lanny]

For Refrigerator/Freezers IMO "KISS" (Keep it simple stupid) is the best route. It's like a car, with each additional feature (water or ice, etc.) you have an additional point of failure. We have a low end Whirlpool that I won in a raffle. It has been in service approximately 15 years. The only "problem" it has is that the Light Bulb burned out... 

If you can search on WTM I think you will find some threads about high end (costly) refrigerators breaking down after 6 to 12 months. Very sad...

For Washing Machines. When my DW realized that her "best friend", an old Whirlpool ("KISS") machine needed to be replaced, she went to the superstore and bought a big high end Samsung with the Digital Controls.   She bought it about 4 or 5 (?) years ago and she LOVES it.  She kept the old Whirlpool machine around for a long time but she finally gave it away. It was like a member of the family.

The drain hose  for the Samsung washing machine got clogged once and it stopped working and my DW figured out what the issue was and she cleared the hose and it has been OK since then.

We have had a lot of Samsung things. All of them OK except I don't like the Samsung Microwave oven she bought about 6 (?) years ago.

When the man came to "install" the Samsung Washing Machine we asked him which brand he thinks is better. LG or Samsung. He works on both brands. He told us that some people like LG and others like Samsung.  We had some very high end LG Home Electronics and none of them lasted...   My impression was that LG products are less expensive versions of Samsung products. And my stepson had a mid to high range LG cell  phone which was constantly in the shop. His carrier eventually replaced it with another brand.

OP I hope that you buy things you are happy with.

[Bootsie]

One thing to consider is the availability of repair and service in your area should something go wrong.  I know that there might be only one company that services some upper end appliances in my area and it can take weeks to even get an inital appointment.

[Tap]

Go to an appliance repair place that also sells appliances and ask them what they recommend.
 

My boss has a 5 year old house and has high end Gen Air ( sp?) appliances. When his micro hood went out, it was over $1000 to fix it. The repair person told him a basic fridge repair for his fridge is usually $2000 and up. The micro hood is built in and matches the other appliances so they paid for the repair instead of having a new on installed (which was closer to $2000). 
 

High end…..can also mean high repair bills!!

 

[Carol in Cal.]

One thing I have heard about the highly insulated ovens in high end stoves—they take a very long time to preheat.  That is something I would check into before buying.  Lots of mass to warm up, so it can take a long time.

Also, bring in some of your pots and try them on any stove or stove top you consider.  There is a crowding I have seen of burners on some new stoves in the ‘mid-range’ price points that means that despite having 5 burners,  you can only use 2 or 3 at a time.  That is a deal breaker for me, and I’m glad that I caught it.

 

Edited July 18, 2021 by Carol in Cal.

[Carrie12345]

I’ve been seeing a lot of repair people online recommending Kitchen Aid. That’s about as high end as I’ll go, so I haven’t listened to anything above the expensive Kitchen Aids. (Not the Uber expensive built in fridges though. )

[Tap]

20 minutes ago, Carol in Cal. said:

One thing I have heard about the highly insulated ovens in high end stoves—they take a very long time to preheat.  That is something I would check into before buying.  Lots of mass to warm up, so it can take a long time.

Also, bring in some of your pots and try them on any stove or stove top you consider.  There is a crowding I have seen of burners on some new stoves in the ‘mid-range’ price points that means that despite having 5 burners,  you can only use 2 or 3 at a time.  That is a deal breaker for me, and I’m glad that I caught it.

 

I have a basic glass top GE stove. It has the 5th warming burner and I didn’t think much of it. But…it means the other burners are in a different position and the back burners are so close to the control knobs/back of stove and each side, I can only use my smallest pans on the 2 back burners. Very annoying!!

A silly example of why this is a problem I can’t boil water for pasta on the back burner, have meat sautéing on one front burner and sauce simmering on another. I can only have 2 medium/large pans on the stove top at a time. I’m taking about regular family size pots, not commercial. 

[Selkie]

1 hour ago, Bootsie said:

One thing to consider is the availability of repair and service in your area should something go wrong.  I know that there might be only one company that services some upper end appliances in my area and it can take weeks to even get an inital appointment.

I was going to mention this, too. The people I know who’ve bought the brands mentioned by OP say it is a nightmare when they break down because it can take months to get repairs.

I do know someone who bought an ultra fancy range and was very happy with it. Can’t remember the brand, but someone from the company flew over from Europe to install it and teach her to use it.

[fairfarmhand]

I have a Bosch dishwasher and I love it. My whirlpool dishwashers wore out after 4 years or so and this one works amazingly. I’ve had it over 5 years and it still cleans as well as when if we brand new. And it’s not loud.

[sheryl]

OK, thanks everyone.  I hear what you're saying and I suppose there are lemons in every price point.  Maybe we're hard on our appliances. IDK!  But, they don't last like they used to.  

Not planning to buy these until AFTER we move.  
Carol, yes, I'm looking in to Viking for cooking.  I am not as picky with dishwashers except to say the older ones are better.  I like the look of double wall ovens but I'm50/50 because a nice Viking would look great too.   Miele - dishwasher, really?  I had no idea.   Miele is new to me - a month or two ago someone cited Miele as an option for a vacuum.
whitestaver, thanks.  It doesn't have to be Viking but keeping my options open.  My sister has a Viking.  It's either been really good or really bad.  I'll ask -she told me but I don't remember.

 

[PeterPan]

2 hours ago, sheryl said:

Subzero/Wolf, Viking, Thermador

I chose *not* to do them or ask for them when we built our house. I had spent a lot of years gathering catalogs, going to showrooms, dreaming. Reasons? Maybe nothing that applies to you.

-realized I didn't want to cook with gas

-didn't want to put in that level of ventilation

-didn't want the noise

-realized I like a deeper frig, not counter depth

This is just my two cents, but I think the best reasons to get the commercial style residential appliances are when you want the features. With any upscale product (cars, GE appliances vs. Kenmore, etc.) the price of the repairs also goes up. 

I think if you need/use the features those appliances bring (separate condensors for frig/freezer which we must now call fridge/freezer, higher BTUs, etc.) then whatever draw backs happen (higher ventilation costs, noise, slower warming, whatever) won't matter. However you can also find products that are kind of middle of the road (upper end lines) that split the difference.

I really don't know about the lasting longer question. I've never had an issue feeling like my appliances don't last an expected amount. Well I say that and my 13 yo all frig bit the dust a couple months ago. That really bites because it was part of a matched set. I got busy with HBOT and haven't figured out if it's fixable or not, sigh. It's in the mudroom glaring at me.

I would get them because you want the features. If you want to know what is reliable, talk with a repair company you trust and let them give you the scoop. They know. And then figure out who your repair person is going to be if you go with these brands. If you live in a big city, no problem. You definitely want to make sure you'll be happen with the distance they're driving and how long it will take you to get service. 

[sheryl]

Lanny, you have been fortunate.  Our Whirlpool frig is the one on the blitz.  Have had Whirlpool stove/oven and dishwasher.  I'm not real impressed.  Samsung - people either love the name or hate it, it seems.  Mixed reviews re: Samsung refrigerators over the years at least in the States.  I certainly don't want to spend money unnecessarily so I need to think through this A LOT!

[sheryl]

1 hour ago, Bootsie said:

One thing to consider is the availability of repair and service in your area should something go wrong.  I know that there might be only one company that services some upper end appliances in my area and it can take weeks to even get an inital appointment.

This is excellent advice and very spot on!  Thanks for the reminder!

[prairiewindmomma]

My experiences:

1. My 2 year old Jenn Aire oven just had its first service call; the heating element went out. I was told by the tech to plan to replace it every 18-24 months. My previous Jenn Aire oven had the electrical panel go out and the repair would have been over $2k. I am a bit stuck as there are only two downdraft oven models available. I am hoping to be able to do a full kitchen remodel and put in outside venting in the next few years.

2. My dh’s old boss has a house full of Wolf appliances. The only certified repair people at the time were based three hours away. Definitely make sure you can find certified repair people in your area.

3. Miele and Bosch are two brands that are mid-range that I love. Miele makes their own parts and they have been easier to get through the pandemic compared to Bosch.

4. My commercial/professional baker friends all have “normal” ovens in their homes rather than the $7-10k kind. They all have gas, but the bakes and stove tops are all roughly equal. They aren’t impressed by the brass on my Jenn Aire (and I am not either—my old GE range was just as good).

[sheryl]

Tap, I will.  Sure, many lines have various price points like GM cars have "starter" cars to more expensive ones.  And, within each "make" car you can go basic or added bells/whistles.  As I told Lanny there will be a lot of research.  It's adding up to be a bit.  Will look at that line.

[sheryl]

1 hour ago, Carol in Cal. said:

One thing I have heard about the highly insulated ovens in high end stoves—they take a very long time to preheat.  That is something I would check into before buying.  Lots of mass to warm up, so it can take a long time.

Also, bring in some of your pots and try them on any stove or stove top you consider.  There is a crowding I have seen of burners on some new stoves in the ‘mid-range’ price points that means that despite having 5 burners,  you can only use 2 or 3 at a time.  That is a deal breaker for me, and I’m glad that I caught it.

 

OK, Miss Smarty 🙂 that is a great idea.  I've never done that.  Learned something new.  I definitely don't want crowded skillets/pots.   What kind of hood do you have? Recommend?

[whitestavern]

We just got a new fridge and dishwasher. Both the old ones were Kenmore, over 20 years old. Nothing was wrong with them. The dw made a high pitched noise when starting but we wanted stainless to match our stove so… Unfortunately we can’t get Kenmore around here anymore. Our kenmore dryer is 24 years old and running great. Hoping our new things have a good life. Consumer reports can be helpful when shopping for new appliances. 

Edited July 19, 2021 by whitestavern

[PeterPan]

2 minutes ago, sheryl said:

Miele - dishwasher, really?  I had no idea.   Miele is new to me - a month or two ago someone cited Miele as an option for a vacuum.

Back 15+ years ago the european models were the high end stuff. Then the domestics started competing that way. Bosch got bought by (I forget). To me you don't need the hassle of something that is hard to repair. If there are repair places within say 30 minutes, then it can be on the table.

I bought a new KA (top of the line probably) dw about a year ago. Thing cleans great, except when it completely stops, lol. We've had a tech out 3 times and he called it frankenstein, tried new brains, I don't know. In general I prefer american products because I like the size, the way they handle, etc. So if the stupid thing stays on, my preference is to use it over a bosch. You can go to Best Buy and see this stuff for yourself.

For the european stuff and higher end, there are stores in the big city. You should go! I was super in love with Dacor I think back in the day. Do you like your sister's Viking? Maybe she'd let you over to cook. Me, I've decided I like low key cleaning. My mother gets kicks out of picking all those grates up on her stove. Not me, lol.

I guess see your layout. You can always throw an extra oven or the main stove into your basement to have an extra oven. I wouldn't give up counter space for them.

Instead of appliances, have you thought about a remodel? I have 30" deep counters (well technically 29" because my arms are short) and they're life changing. You could take the existing lower cabs, fur them out, new counter tops, boom. That's function. I have these cooling racks that are the size of a sheet pan and I can line them up straight. Buffets, noodles, anything where you want space.

[Clarita]

I LOVE my Bosch. It was much better than my previous which was the high end  Sears Kenmore brand. Things are actually water tight. (Kenmore broke because water got into the control panel who knew the dishwasher would have water near it). I liked it so much I got a second one. 

I LOVE my dacor double oven; I don't find that it pre-heats anymore slowly than my  friend's ovens. The heat inside the oven is even, meaning any recipe that tell you to rotate the dish or whatever just ignore put the dish wherever in the oven and take it out when it's done. Using the temperature probe to cook meat, in theory I would like it except that I think it turns down the heat too fast. (Essentially, when the meat probe reaches a particular temperature it turns down the oven to warm, but it does it when the meat just reaches the temperature so I feel sometimes it leaves it a little underdone.) I had to fix the relay on it; we bought the part and fixed it ourselves. The fix was pretty easy just had to pull out the oven and plug in the new part. We live in a populous so even if we had to find a repair person it wouldn't have been hard.

I do like my Thermador gas cooktop. It's my first gas cooktop so I love it because it's fast. No complaints on it so far. It's cheaper than Viking or Wolf but when we looked at it we weren't sure there was a great performance difference between it and them.

We got a big fridge with french door top with a freezer drawer bottom. I chose it for the size (biggest I could find), but without a lot of dedicated space for ice maker.  

Yes, my husband loves cooking so I get all the kitchen toys.

[sheryl]

49 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

I’ve been seeing a lot of repair people online recommending Kitchen Aid. That’s about as high end as I’ll go, so I haven’t listened to anything above the expensive Kitchen Aids. (Not the Uber expensive built in fridges though. )

Thanks for that!   That really does speak volumes!  I did the same when buying my vacuum.  

45 minutes ago, Tap said:

I have a basic glass top GE stove. It has the 5th warming burner and I didn’t think much of it. But…it means the other burners are in a different position and the back burners are so close to the control knobs/back of stove and each side, I can only use my smallest pans on the 2 back burners. Very annoying!!

A silly example of why this is a problem I can’t boil water for pasta on the back burner, have meat sautéing on one front burner and sauce simmering on another. I can only have 2 medium/large pans on the stove top at a time. I’m taking about regular family size pots, not commercial. 

Glass - as pretty as it is I can't go that route as I use cast iron many times.   Do you have the crowded situation now?  I do not want to deal with that either because it knocks efficiency out of the window for meal prep.  Thanks!

[sheryl]

31 minutes ago, Selkie said:

I was going to mention this, too. The people I know who’ve bought the brands mentioned by OP say it is a nightmare when they break down because it can take months to get repairs.

I do know someone who bought an ultra fancy range and was very happy with it. Can’t remember the brand, but someone from the company flew over from Europe to install it and teach her to use it.

WOW, well, that's not my budget.  LOL!  I'm sure that was top of the line or custom-like!  

[PeterPan]

5 minutes ago, sheryl said:

Have had Whirlpool stove/oven and dishwasher.  I'm not real impressed.  Samsung - people either love the name or hate it, it seems.  Mixed reviews re: Samsung refrigerators over the years at least in the States. 

Yeah, Samsung seems to be flashy outside, leaving you wondering about the inside. 

The reason the DWs go is because of the way they vent. Well other reasons too but the venting is a big one. The vent during the drying cycle can be forcing hot moist air around where those circuit boards are. Computers and water, imagine that having problems. And my new KA is a redesign from what I can tell. I was desperate and had to pounce anyway. I have two dws and we use both at least once everyday. How we do that with 3 people, I don't know, lol. I think we just use big bowls, lol. We were going insane with only one dw.

That's what I'm saying. Me, I'm all about function. Two dws, deeper caps, a frig with enough door storage and depth to hold the things I typically put in. These were important to me. I don't like french doors btw. Over my dead body would I have one. I'm super picky on that, lol. I took laundry baskets with all the contents of my frig to the store and tried them in each frig to figure out the differences. 

[PeterPan]

3 minutes ago, sheryl said:

Glass - as pretty as it is I can't go that route as I use cast iron many times.

I have tons of le creuset, lodge, you name it, zero problems. Just read the user manual. If you want glass, you can have glass. If you like gas, go gas.  

[sheryl]

OK, long day. I'm going to come back in to this post tomorrow.  There is much to think about.  PPan, just read your first reply and want to reread it.  Very good.  Will be back tomorrow.  

[Carol in Cal.]

No idea about the hood.  Our house has a weird venting system and I think we concluded that if we vent the microwave/hood to it it would let bad stuff into the house.  I can’t remember for sure.

If I were dreaming, I would get a gas range and an electric wall oven and and electric warming drawer.  Gas ovens have more swing in the interior temperature, but gas is more controllable for burners and works a lot better than electricity for stir fries.

Also, +2 on the servicing, and Don’t Believe Lowe’s about this.  Our next door neighbors to our cabin, who live up there year round, bought a Samsung washing machine or dishwasher from Lowes, with the extended warranty.  It went out within the first year or two and when they called for repairs, the guy Lowe’s sent to them did not work on Samsung at all.  His succinct comment?  “I don’t know why they keep doing this to folks.  I have NEVER worked on Samsungs and neither does anyone else around here.”  So they insisted that Lowe’s give them a full refund and deliver a replacement, and got a KitchenAid.   

[PeterPan]

6 minutes ago, sheryl said:

Do you have the crowded situation now?  I do not want to deal with that either because it knocks efficiency out of the window for meal prep.

I guess the comment on the size of the burners doesn't make sense to me. The small, lower wattage burners of an electric stove would pair with smaller pans. You wouldn't be trying to put a *large* pan on a *small* electric burner. Now I never noticed on my mothers pro style gas. Are all the burner BTUs the same? Then presumably they're positioned for that. 

Remember, you go putting in those BTUs, you better budget for the ventilation.

[Carol in Cal.]

Another thing to think about.  All those doors, like in the French door fridges?  They take up a lot of fridge space so you have less room than you think for food.  It’s … alarming.

[Carol in Cal.]

Just now, PeterPan said:

I guess the comment on the size of the burners doesn't make sense to me. The small, lower wattage burners of an electric stove would pair with smaller pans. You wouldn't be trying to put a *large* pan on a *small* electric burner. Now I never noticed on my mothers pro style gas. Are all the burner BTUs the same? Then presumably they're positioned for that. 

Remember, you go putting in those BTUs, you better budget for the ventilation.

No, it’s not the size as much as the spacing.

Lots of the midrange stoves now have a single high BTU center burner, and four other burners of varying sizes around it.  But, even without the center one having something on it, I found that the burners were closer together than in my old boring stove from maybe 1980 or so—because the controls were not on the front face in the newer ones, but either on the horizontal stove top face or taking up some of that room with a slanted mount.  

I’m so lucky I even noticed this.  I just thought it didn’t look quite right, and brought my typical pots in the next time I came, and low and behold I couldn’t use more than three burners at a time, at all, unlike my old boring stove.  So I kept the old boring stove.  Sigh.

[PeterPan]

2 minutes ago, Carol in Cal. said:

the controls were not on the front face in the newer ones, but either on the horizontal stove top face or taking up some of that room with a slanted mount.  

They still make both kinds. A slide in range will have the burners on the front. A freestanding stove will have them on the back panel, as you say. I didn't want the controls where little fingers could get them. 

https://www.whirlpool.com/blog/kitchen/slide-in-vs-freestanding-range.html

[prairiewindmomma]

Miele and the Bosch 800 series both have very low repair rates as dishwashers.

Miele washing machines are very reliable, but have smaller capacities.

Yale Appliance has really good reviews. They both sell and repair and keep records of their in-house repair rates by brand. I find them more helpful than consumer reports.

[Carol in Cal.]

3 hours ago, PeterPan said:

They still make both kinds. A slide in range will have the burners on the front. A freestanding stove will have them on the back panel, as you say. I didn't want the controls where little fingers could get them. 

https://www.whirlpool.com/blog/kitchen/slide-in-vs-freestanding-range.html

Yes, I know.  It was just that … I was looking for a fridge, not a stove. 

But I like to cook and have wanted a really good stove for a long time.

So I started looking at the stoves, which I almost never have occasion to do.  I have never in my life bought a stove.  And I found this one that I really liked.  Electric oven, gas burners, a high BTU burner for those heavy wok nights, and a total of 5 burners.  Sleek, came in white, checked all my boxes.  It might have even had a second oven—I think so.

And I was ready to do the suite thing.  We needed a dishwasher and fridge at the cabin, and the stove at home would have been a nice upgrade, and there were discounts and and and…

But the stove just looked funny to me, and when I got my pots I could see that it would not help my cooking, but rather would impair it, compared with my old one, which is awfully funny.  That old one has 4 small gas burners.  ALL small.  Very annoying to think that that piece of junk was better than this new one.  I nosed around for one that was less crowded and failed to find one.  The ones that had controls on the front had bigger towers taking up space in the back, and the burners were consistently closer together than on my old stove.

(And, it turned out that the new dishwashers are slightly taller than the old ones, so the only way to replace the one at the cabin is to do major surgery on a tile counter.  We elected to have it repaired, even though it sounds like a dying garbage truck and needs to be babied a lot.  So the suite was out anyway.)

 

Edited July 19, 2021 by Carol in Cal.

[Ottakee]

Speed queen for washers.

I love my GE stove with center griddle.  Just love it....so much so that when I bought this house I had them run a gas line and bought a new one since my old one has to stay behind.

[Carol in Cal.]

12 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Miele and the Bosch 800 series both have very low repair rates as dishwashers.

Miele washing machines are very reliable, but have smaller capacities.

Yale Appliance has really good reviews. They both sell and repair and keep records of their in-house repair rates by brand. I find them more helpful than consumer reports.

BUT!  The Miele requires finicky maintenance.  You have to take apart the bottom and clean out the filter manually every month or so.  Whereas the high end Kitchen Aids clean themselves.  

[Carol in Cal.]

Just now, Ottakee said:

Speed queen for washers.

I love my GE stove with center griddle.  Just love it....so much so that when I bought this house I had them run a gas line and bought a new one since my old one has to stay behind.

YES NO QUESTION ABOUT THIS.  THE ONLY BRAND FOR WASHERS.

I just wish there was a SQ equivalent for a fridge.  Or a dishwasher.

[Tap]

1 hour ago, PeterPan said:

I guess the comment on the size of the burners doesn't make sense to me. The small, lower wattage burners of an electric stove would pair with smaller pans. You wouldn't be trying to put a *large* pan on a *small* electric burner. Now I never noticed on my mothers pro style gas. Are all the burner BTUs the same? Then presumably they're positioned for that. 

Remember, you go putting in those BTUs, you better budget for the ventilation.

It’s not the burner size but the layout that causes the issue. When they add the 5th burner, they nudge the other 4 burners out a bit to make room. On my stove they bumped the 2 back burners backwards and out a bit. It isn’t a lot, but makes a big difference on where you can put pots to keep the pot relatively centered on top of a burner. 

[cjzimmer1]

1 hour ago, sheryl said:

Thanks for that!   That really does speak volumes!  I did the same when buying my vacuum.  

Glass - as pretty as it is I can't go that route as I use cast iron many times.   Do you have the crowded situation now?  I do not want to deal with that either because it knocks efficiency out of the window for meal prep.  Thanks!

 

1 hour ago, PeterPan said:

I have tons of le creuset, lodge, you name it, zero problems. Just read the user manual. If you want glass, you can have glass. If you like gas, go gas.  

Another option if you are really worried about the glass and cast iron is to get an induction cooktop.  Just toss a silicone mat on the burner and set your cast iron pan on top.  The magnetic field passed right through the silicone mat so you don't lose any burner efficiancy but since cast iron isn't actually touching the glass you don't have to worry about scratches.

[rutheart]

I would live in the new house for at least six months before investing in more expensive appliances. When we moved into our new construction house, we had to replace the washer (caught fire while full of water), dryer, dishwasher, and stove in the first year. It turned out that the local utility has a lot of surges. We have surge protectors with battery backup on our computers and they would alarm multiple times a day. The frequent surges were wrecking our electrical panel. We put a whole house surge protector on the panel and haven't lost any appliances since then (and the computer surge protectors are quiet except for electrical outages). Before we got married, my husband moved to an older house that also had electrical issues (i.e. turning on the stove gave you an electrical shock). You just want to make sure the electrical will not damage your new expensive appliances.

Now that we have fixed our electrical issues, we have bought a Kitchenaid dishwasher and stove. I haven't had the stove long enough to review, but I love the dishwasher. It's quiet enough that we can watch tv in the den without raising the volume (there is just an open bar between the two rooms). The third rack has also really come in handy and cut down on the number of loads run every day. I have never regretted spending the extra money on it.

We have a french door Frigidaire with the freezer on the bottom. We loved it so much in our last house that we bought another one when we moved here. It and the microwave were the only original appliances that survived all the surges.

Edited July 19, 2021 by rutheart
defined frequency of electrical surges

[Tap]

1 hour ago, sheryl said:

Thanks for that!   That really does speak volumes!  I did the same when buying my vacuum.  

Glass - as pretty as it is I can't go that route as I use cast iron many times.   Do you have the crowded situation now?  I do not want to deal with that either because it knocks efficiency out of the window for meal prep.  Thanks!

I have used cast iron daily on all 3 of my glass top stoves for 27 years. No problem what so ever. The only damage I have done is nicking the enamel which had nothing to do with it being glass. 

[PeterPan]

1 hour ago, rutheart said:

It turned out that the local utility has a lot of surges and it was wrecking our electrical panel. We put a whole house surge protector on the panel and haven't lost any appliances since then. 

That is such an interesting explanation.

1 hour ago, rutheart said:

The third rack has also really come in handy and cut down on the number of loads run every day. I have never regretted spending the extra money on it.

Yes, the 3rd rack on the KA dw is very nice!!! I think when we picked it a year ago it was better than the 3rd rack on the Bosch. You can put glasses in SIDEWAYS and they come clean. It's totally crazy. 

[PeterPan]

1 hour ago, rutheart said:

freezer on the bottom.

I'm so committed to my bottom freezer. Just don't ask me to do french doors. Short, heavy. No really, it's just the memory thing. I'd never know where in the world anything was, so then I'd be opening both doors, looking like Vanna White or lost squirrel or something.  

Edited July 19, 2021 by PeterPan

[Clarita]

53 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

Yes, the 3rd rack on the KA dw is very nice!!! I think when we picked it a year ago it was better than the 3rd rack on the Bosch.

When my dishwasher dies I'll have to look into this. I already love my Bosch 3rd rack.

[Carol in Cal.]

16 minutes ago, Clarita said:

When my dishwasher dies I'll have to look into this. I already love my Bosch 3rd rack.

If you like the hot drying, be sure to check the specs on whatever one you pick to make sure they have it.  It's not on all of them anymore.  Also, I personally feel very strongly about having a garbage disposer type impeller in the dishwasher drain to reduce clogs downstream.  Again, check specs if that is important to you. We had an absolutely fantastic sales guy but he was wrong about these.  It's impossible to keep all the models straight.  You have to research this yourself.

[Clarita]

3 minutes ago, Carol in Cal. said:

If you like the hot drying, be sure to check the specs on whatever one you pick to make sure they have it.  It's not on all of them anymore.  Also, I personally feel very strongly about having a garbage disposer type impeller in the dishwasher drain to reduce clogs downstream.

I thought I would be disappointed with the lack of heating element to dry my dishes but I really haven't been. If I don't pull them out right away they are dry; if I pull them immediately I get a face full of steam and pretty dry. I would really like a garbage disposal built in to my dishwasher, something to think about for the next dishwasher. 

The sale guy I had knew less about the dishwashers available at the time than I did too...

[Bootsie]

3 hours ago, PeterPan said:

I'm so committed to my bottom freezer. Just don't ask me to do french doors. Short, heavy. No really, it's just the memory thing. I'd never know where in the world anything was, so then I'd be opening both doors, looking like Vanna White or lost squirrel or something.  

I don't care for French doors either.  For the cheese/deli tray we definitely had to open both doors.  But, we found that for many things both doors had to be opened--which either resullted in using both hands to open the fridge, take the item out place it one the counter, and then close the fridge with both hands.  Or, if using one had to open and close both doors of the fridge we had to do this awkward cross-body movement.

[Bootsie]

5 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Miele and the Bosch 800 series both have very low repair rates as dishwashers.

Miele washing machines are very reliable, but have smaller capacities.

Yale Appliance has really good reviews. They both sell and repair and keep records of their in-house repair rates by brand. I find them more helpful than consumer reports.

I was so excited when we moved into a rental that had my dream Bosch dishwasher in it--but when we actually used it, no one liked it.  It was difficult to load.  Some of our dishes just didn't fit and and it would not hold as much as other dishwashers I have used.  

[DawnM]

Are you planning to build a house?   Otherwise you might be pleasantly surprised by finding a house with nice appliances already there.

[fairfarmhand]

3 hours ago, Bootsie said:

I was so excited when we moved into a rental that had my dream Bosch dishwasher in it--but when we actually used it, no one liked it.  It was difficult to load.  Some of our dishes just didn't fit and and it would not hold as much as other dishwashers I have used.  

It literally took me 2-3 months to figure out how to load my Bosch. They designed their racks oddly. Now that I know how, it holds as much as my old whirlpool.