APs are there other options

[Lulu]

My kids are late elementary and middle school age. We are starting to look at high school. I wanted to ask what people are doing now that the SAT and subject exams are gone. We were not really planning on lots of APs but should we incorporate more APs into our high school plans? Or DEs, are they just as good as APs. I don’t want to distort my kids education for college admissions game but what options are there to validate their homeschool education? 

edited: We are in CA and our state schools have decided to go test blind. 

[JayneJ]

My older kiddos did Dual Enrollment. We thought about having them complete some CLEPs too but they never go around to taking the tests. 

[8filltheheart]

The SAT is not gone, just the subject tests.  I don't "validate" my kids' home education.  I just don't even try.  I present their educations via their application package (transcript, counselor letter, school profile, and course descriptions).  They submit standardized test scores.  Some of my kids have more (the ones who are more competitive by nature and actively pursued things).  They have done things simply bc that is what they have done.  My college freshman had pretty much nothing additional.  She took German through German Online, but I didn't submit another transcript from them.  I just incorporated their grades into mine. She had CLEP exams from her freshman yr of high school, but her U doesn't offer credit for those exams. My college sr did lots of Russian-oriented things (olympiadas, essay, speech, international competitions) and NLE.  So those awards were part of her application. She had nothing to "prove" her French level (she had 7 homebrewed French credits on her transcript) other than her Francophone "adopted grandma" who wrote her a letter of recommendation. She took multiple CLEP exams which awarded cr at her U that she wanted to place out of.  My grad student ds took 2 APs (BC and chem) and DEed for math and physics.  But, no, we didn't plan their high school around incorporating courses to prove anything.  We planned courses around their interests, goals, and abilities.  When those intersected with APs or DE, they do if they want to.  I don't make the decision for them.  (Only my ds took the AP cal exam even though most of my kids have made it through cal in high school.)

 

[stripe]

I think even if you want an outsiders’ view, you don’t need to have exams in every subject. SAT and ACT both incorporate English and math, so a reasonable score on these is used as “validation” even for students in regular schools. I would consider activities and experiences focusing on their main strengths and interests. So, sure, they could take college classes, but a college class that’s an easy A isn’t likely to be very meaningful. Interesting class in the subjects they care most about (whether at home, through some outside provider, or a dual enrollment situation) seem more meaningful than just a collection of random stuff. But I am not the sort of person who arranges her life in that way. I admire 8’s methods a lot.

[SDMomof3]

The UCs only look at 10 and 11 grade classes for gpa calculations, you can always just have you kids take APs for the two grades. 
 

 

[rzberrymom]

2 hours ago, 8filltheheart said:

The SAT is not gone, just the subject tests.

The SAT is gone at the UC schools, so maybe that’s what the OP meant?

 

We’re also in CA and have gone with DE, both at a CC and a local university. I just couldn’t bear to teach to a test with my DD. For us, the upside of DE is that my DD is now planning to just transfer to a UC, saving us a load of money. The downside is that the grades are forever, and so you have to make sure that they’re really ready to tackle the class. We started with something very familiar to her and added more and more from there.

[Farrar]

You do not need to validate your home school education - at least not beyond providing the required paperwork for college applications, which routinely does ask for course descriptions.

However, your student needs **something** in order to validate their ability to succeed as a student at their school. That could be a lot of things. At most schools, it could be SAT/ACT scores. Obviously, not at the UC's anymore. However, it could be dual enrollment credits, AP exams, CLEP exams, outside awards or honors... Really, it could be a lot of things. And good letters of rec help a lot as well.

A lot of homeschoolers get hung up on validating every little thing. Don't fall into that trap. You do not need to do that.

Do look at where your student is applying and consider what sort of applicants they'll be up against. That doesn't mean your student needs to do the same thing - in fact, doing the same thing as everyone else can be a drawback. But it does mean that they have to stand out against those applicants and have coursework and awards that match or surpass those successful applicants in order to have a reasonable shot. For a lot of colleges, it does not take much more than the minimum for high school and a mediocre SAT score. For really selective colleges, it takes far more and then it's still a lottery shot.

 

[Momto6inIN]

I agree with @8filltheheart and @Farrar. I don't need anyone's validation of my homeschooling. My kids' educations all look different because they had the time to go after their passion and their individual vision for their future. Oldest DS is very motivated and academically competitive so he had a few APs and very challenging math course descriptions and a lot of programming experience. 2nd DS is focused on teambuilding and leadership and collaboration, so he had no APs but had a ton of experience in his ECs with leading and working as a group. Oldest DD hasn't yet clarified exactly what she wants to study in college yet, but chances are good it will be in a social work type field and so she has lots of time spent volunteering and working with kids. So far she doesn't have any APs, but she might decide to self study for the AP Psych exam.

They all have take the SAT to get into college here. Are CA schools moving into not accepting SAT/ACT scores at all? Or are they just making them optional?

I do have them all do a DE course during senior year, but that's more of a let's dip our toes gently into college level executive functioning skills thing rather than a validation thing. By the time they apply to college at the beginning of senior year, they don't have that DE on their transcript yet except as an "in progress" thing, so it's not really validation.

[stripe]

This is a nice little brochure with 14 factors the UC system looks at in admissions:

 

THE 14 FACTORS THE UC SYSTEM CONSIDERS
1. Grade-point average
2. Test scores, if submitted
3. Performance in and number of courses beyond minimum a-g requirements
4. UC-approved honors courses and advanced courses
5. Eligibility in the Local Context (ELC) – CA residents only
6. Quality of senior-year program of study
7. Academic opportunities in California high schools
8. Outstanding performance in one or more academic subject areas
9. Achievements in special projects
10. Improvement in academic performance
11. Special talents, achievements and awards
12. Participation in educational preparation programs
13. Academic accomplishment in light of life experiences
14. Geographic location
Note: No single factor determines admission.

https://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/counselors/files/comprehensive-review-beyond-the-numbers.pdf

Edited March 30, 2021 by stripe

[rzberrymom]

2 hours ago, Momto6inIN said:

I agree with @8filltheheart and @Farrar. I don't need anyone's validation of my homeschooling. My kids' educations all look different because they had the time to go after their passion and their individual vision for their future. Oldest DS is very motivated and academically competitive so he had a few APs and very challenging math course descriptions and a lot of programming experience. 2nd DS is focused on teambuilding and leadership and collaboration, so he had no APs but had a ton of experience in his ECs with leading and working as a group. Oldest DD hasn't yet clarified exactly what she wants to study in college yet, but chances are good it will be in a social work type field and so she has lots of time spent volunteering and working with kids. So far she doesn't have any APs, but she might decide to self study for the AP Psych exam.

They all have take the SAT to get into college here. Are CA schools moving into not accepting SAT/ACT scores at all? Or are they just making them optional?

I do have them all do a DE course during senior year, but that's more of a let's dip our toes gently into college level executive functioning skills thing rather than a validation thing. By the time they apply to college at the beginning of senior year, they don't have that DE on their transcript yet except as an "in progress" thing, so it's not really validation.

But, I’m not sure this works within the UC system. Maybe someone can tell me if I have this wrong? According to all the info I’ve read on their website, they have strict A-G requirements which can only be fulfilled by 1) classes from an approved course list from approved institutions (i.e. my little registered homeschool is not on that list), 2) an AP or IB exam, or 3) a college course. They also accept SAT subject tests, but now those are gone. So, there’s just no way that I can see to be admitted without fulfilling those requirements in one of those ways (or transfer by fulfilling a different list of courses from a community college).

 

And now the UC system has completely eliminated the SAT and ACT. Forever. 
 

I don’t know what a homeschooler can do here other than chase APs and DE classes. This is definitely not the experience I imagined for a high schooler when we started homeschooling 10 years ago, but it’s the reality for us.

[Arcadia]

23 minutes ago, rzberrymom said:

But, I’m not sure this works within the UC system. Maybe someone can tell me if I have this wrong? According to all the info I’ve read on their website, they have strict A-G requirements which can only be fulfilled by 1) classes from an approved course list from approved institutions (i.e. my little registered homeschool is not on that list), 2) an AP or IB exam, or 3) a college course. They also accept SAT subject tests, but now those are gone. So, there’s just no way that I can see to be admitted without fulfilling those requirements in one of those ways (or transfer by fulfilling a different list of courses from a community college).

Admission by exception is still available though the numbers accepted by this route won’t be big

https://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/admission-requirements/freshman-requirements/admission-by-exception.html

“Sometimes even the most creative, focused and intellectually passionate students aren't able to fulfill our admission requirements. Even these students have a chance to attend UC.

Some students are home-schooled and don't have transcripts. Others have life circumstances that have prevented them living up to their promise. The list is endless.

If you believe you have the ability and potential to succeed at UC, you could be considered for admission by exception.

Each UC campus can offer admission to a few students who do not meet all of our admission requirements. You may use the personal insight questions or additional comments section of the admission application to explain your unique story.“

[Momto6inIN]

31 minutes ago, rzberrymom said:

But, I’m not sure this works within the UC system. Maybe someone can tell me if I have this wrong? According to all the info I’ve read on their website, they have strict A-G requirements which can only be fulfilled by 1) classes from an approved course list from approved institutions (i.e. my little registered homeschool is not on that list), 2) an AP or IB exam, or 3) a college course. They also accept SAT subject tests, but now those are gone. So, there’s just no way that I can see to be admitted without fulfilling those requirements in one of those ways (or transfer by fulfilling a different list of courses from a community college).

 

And now the UC system has completely eliminated the SAT and ACT. Forever. 
 

I don’t know what a homeschooler can do here other than chase APs and DE classes. This is definitely not the experience I imagined for a high schooler when we started homeschooling 10 years ago, but it’s the reality for us.

I'm sorry, that sounds awful. I can't imagine the stress that would put on you as a homeschool mom to have those as your only options. The bolded part is the part I'm asking about - they no longer accept SAT/ACT scores at all as proof of college readiness? Or is it just the subject tests they got rid of?

[rzberrymom]

The SAT and ACT are gone. Not optional. You can still submit the scores to place out of classes, but they can’t use them for admissions decisions. Eventually, they say they’re going to try to create their own test.

[SDMomof3]

28 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

Admission by exception is still available though the numbers accepted by this route won’t be big

https://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/admission-requirements/freshman-requirements/admission-by-exception.html

“Sometimes even the most creative, focused and intellectually passionate students aren't able to fulfill our admission requirements. Even these students have a chance to attend UC.

Some students are home-schooled and don't have transcripts. Others have life circumstances that have prevented them living up to their promise. The list is endless.

If you believe you have the ability and potential to succeed at UC, you could be considered for admission by exception.

Each UC campus can offer admission to a few students who do not meet all of our admission requirements. You may use the personal insight questions or additional comments section of the admission application to explain your unique story.“

I’ve looked at admissions by exception but the admits are very low and seems kinda risky to go that direction. 🤷‍♀️ Especially if you are aiming for a competitive major. 

[Arcadia]

8 minutes ago, SDMomof3 said:

I’ve looked at admissions by exception but the admits are very low and seems kinda risky to go that direction. 🤷‍♀️ Especially if you are aiming for a competitive major. 

We have transferring to our local commuter CSU with high acceptance rate as a very affordable backup choice.

[Swimmer1112]

We have friends, who plan to go back to PS because the UCs favor public and private school kids for admissions. They have programs like Local Path and State Path that puts public and private school kids, who graduate in the top 9% of their high school, in front of the admissions line. 

https://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/counselors/freshman/california-residents/local-path.html

[Farrar]

You do admission by exception. If you're doing a PSA in California, then A-G approved is essentially not available to you. For the UC schools, it's like the process for admitting private or out of state students, so in that sense, you're fine. The UC's are pretty competitive, but they're absolutely open to PSA students and there are lots of success stories every year. @rzberrymom, are you on the CA Homeschool College Seekers group on Facebook? That group is a bit nuts (and I'm sure Laura and RA will forgive me for saying that) so don't get overwhelmed by the parents there. But there is a lot of good information there about very specific UC for homeschoolers stuff there.

Because the SAT is not an option, you're right that DE and AP classes do take on a greater importance. But they are not the only things you can do to increase your student's chance of acceptance at the UC's. And "greater importance" doesn't mean they're your only option or that you have to have an overwhelming slate of them in order for your student to show that they can be successful. All the things that other people are talking about here about solid coursework, outside honors, interesting activities, great letters of rec, etc. etc. are also at play for the UC's.

Edited March 30, 2021 by Farrar

[stripe]

I’m pretty impressed they’d be willing to consider, much less accept, a homeschooled student without transcripts. 

[Roadrunner]

While they have legal ways of accepting a kid without AP and DE, mostly everybody we know who has successfully entered the UC system’s more competitive campuses had either or sometimes both AP and DE credits. It’s just a huge system that relies heavily on GPA and is used to accepting PS kids with a ton of APs. I don’t think you need to show an official score in every subject, but having some AP scores or some DE would help tremendously.  And take them during 10th and 11th grades, because that’s what they use. 
 

Most PS kids admitted have clubs, sports, activities, outside honors. So yes, you need to have them as well, but GPA, the rigor of courses remains the key. 
 

Edited March 31, 2021 by Roadrunner

[Arcadia]

1 hour ago, Swimmer1112 said:

We have friends, who plan to go back to PS because the UCs favor public and private school kids for admissions. They have programs like Local Path and State Path that puts public and private school kids, who graduate in the top 9% of their high school, in front of the admissions line. 

https://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/counselors/freshman/california-residents/local-path.html

They try to get the students a seat at whichever UCs have vacancies. A friend’s child choose to stay at his lower ranking public high school to have the chance of a higher class rank. He got into UCSC. He had schoolmates who got into UC Merced. His high school has about 600 seniors every year. 

“ELC students who complete these requirements but are not admitted to a campus they apply to will be offered admission to another campus if space is available.”

[SDMomof3]

2 hours ago, Swimmer1112 said:

We have friends, who plan to go back to PS because the UCs favor public and private school kids for admissions. They have programs like Local Path and State Path that puts public and private school kids, who graduate in the top 9% of their high school, in front of the admissions line. 

https://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/counselors/freshman/california-residents/local-path.html

It’s very common in my area for parents go choose a lower preforming high school, to ensure their kids will graduate with a higher ranking. My neighbor’s dd got into UCB and UCLA with this strategy. 

[Roadrunner]

10 minutes ago, SDMomof3 said:

It’s very common in my area for parents go choose a lower preforming high school, to ensure their kids will graduate with a higher ranking. My neighbor’s dd got into UCB and UCLA with this strategy. 

I didn’t think it was based on high school. I thought it was based on state - top 9% of the state. The number of kids going to UCs varies drastically by the district here. 

[SDMomof3]

8 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

I didn’t think it was based on high school. I thought it was based on state - top 9% of the state. The number of kids going to UCs varies drastically by the district here. 

There are 2 pathways to UC, State Path which is top 9% of high school grads in the state. Local Path is top 9% at your school. 

[Roadrunner]

29 minutes ago, SDMomof3 said:

There are 2 pathways to UC, State Path which is top 9% of high school grads in the state. Local Path is top 9% at your school. 

Do you know if this is fairly new? 
 

I am asking because it used to be lower performing schools here barely sent anybody to UCs but higher performing ones sent many more. I wonder when that changed. 
 

Edited March 31, 2021 by Roadrunner

[daijobu]

On 3/29/2021 at 2:12 PM, Lulu said:

My kids are late elementary and middle school age. We are starting to look at high school. I wanted to ask what people are doing now that the SAT and subject exams are gone. We were not really planning on lots of APs but should we incorporate more APs into our high school plans? Or DEs, are they just as good as APs. I don’t want to distort my kids education for college admissions game but what options are there to validate their homeschool education? 

edited: We are in CA and our state schools have decided to go test blind. 

I don't have answers, but want to offer my sympathy.  I used to routinely advise homeschooling parents to grab an easy 700+ on the SAT subject test to validate an A in a homeschool high school class.   My dd eked out a low SAT Spanish score so she could satisfy the university foreign language requirement.  I don't know what homeschooled kids will do now, not just for admissions for the myriad ways that SAT subject test scores are handy to have.    

I don't think you should incorporate more  APs.  Just continue as planned to do the APs in areas of interest.  (math OR science OR English OR history OR foreign language, or maybe 2 areas, or not at all.)  You'll need to think about other ways to demonstrate achievement, but not necessarily in all areas, but just the ones where your student has a strong interest.  

If your student is a history buff, think about ways he can demonstrate this:  participating in reenactments, volunteering at a museum, participating in some sort of history contest.  Maybe take APUSH and/or AP Euro, but not necessarily.  Yes, take cc classes, if there are good ones in your area. 

You are luckier in that you have a year or two to see how this plays out for homeschoolers.  Pay attention to hs2coll and WTM to see what is and isn't working for  homeschoolers applying to college.  Getting rid of these tests is going to have some unintended consequences.  

[Roadrunner]

Also, UCs can no longer take SATs into account for admissions, but they can still look at them I believe to clear prerequisites. So I wonder if math and English A through G could still be validated  through SATs. You used to be able to do that when “entrance by examination” was an option. 

[rzberrymom]

2 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

Also, UCs can no longer take SATs into account for admissions, but they can still look at them I believe to clear prerequisites. So I wonder if math and English A through G could still be validated  through SATs. You used to be able to do that when “entrance by examination” was an option. 

This is the language on that:

 

Nov. 24, 2020 update to May 21, 2020 release: Subsequent events have changed how the University of California will evaluate applications for Fall 2021 admissions. UC will not consider SAT or ACT test scores when making admissions decisions or awarding Regents and Chancellor’s scholarships. For students who choose to submit standardized test scores as part of their applications, the University may use them to determine eligibility for the California statewide admissions guarantee, as an alternative method of fulfilling minimum requirements for eligibility, or for course placement after they enroll.

 

https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/press-room/university-california-board-regents-approves-changes-standardized-testing-requirement

[rzberrymom]

2 hours ago, Farrar said:

You do admission by exception. If you're doing a PSA in California, then A-G approved is essentially not available to you. For the UC schools, it's like the process for admitting private or out of state students, so in that sense, you're fine. The UC's are pretty competitive, but they're absolutely open to PSA students and there are lots of success stories every year. @rzberrymom, are you on the CA Homeschool College Seekers group on Facebook? That group is a bit nuts (and I'm sure Laura and RA will forgive me for saying that) so don't get overwhelmed by the parents there. But there is a lot of good information there about very specific UC for homeschoolers stuff there.

Because the SAT is not an option, you're right that DE and AP classes do take on a greater importance. But they are not the only things you can do to increase your student's chance of acceptance at the UC's. And "greater importance" doesn't mean they're your only option or that you have to have an overwhelming slate of them in order for your student to show that they can be successful. All the things that other people are talking about here about solid coursework, outside honors, interesting activities, great letters of rec, etc. etc. are also at play for the UC's.

That would make me really nervous without being able to have any standardized test to back it up. But, I’m glad there’s some other way!

[SDMomof3]

10 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

Do you know if this is fairly new? 
 

I am asking because it used to be lower performing schools here barely sent anybody to UCs but higher performing ones sent many more. I wonder when that changed. 
 

The program has been around I think since 2007, but it was just the top 4% at the time. The UCs increase it to 9% more recently, not sure when.

[Lulu]

Thank you, everyone has given a lot to think about.

[Farrar]

28 minutes ago, rzberrymom said:

That would make me really nervous without being able to have any standardized test to back it up. But, I’m glad there’s some other way!

I really second what others like @Roadrunner are saying that most successful students at the UC's - especially the competitive ones - do tend to have at least some AP scores. So they do have testing. But also, you don't have to devote your entire homeschool to testing in order to make it considered "valid." Letters of rec, outside awards, all those things are still important.

I know many homeschool students accepted to good, competitive colleges nationwide this year - yes, this crazy year - without standardized testing of any kind. Most had at least some AP classes (though not always scores) and at least some DE... but not all of them and I know several who did not have those as their focuses. I just really want to emphasize that there are paths to success that don't involve testing. Now, whether that's right for your student or not is another question. And if you're talking about the UC's specifically, they're pretty competitive so DE credits are probably going to play a role. But it shouldn't make you "nervous" not to have standardized testing. That's the trap that I'm saying people fall into. You don't have to approach it that way.

[SDMomof3]

@Roadrunner just found the article that my neighbor sent me, it was 2017

http://www.everything-about-college.com/TheUniversityofCalifornia.html

[Arcadia]

Test optional did cause an increase in applications 

https://dailybruin.com/2021/02/11/removal-of-standardized-testing-may-have-contributed-to-uc-application-increase

“The elimination of standardized testing in admissions may have been a factor in the record-high number of people who applied for fall 2021 admissions at the University of California, faculty and students said.

UCLA received nearly 168,000 applications for fall, the all-time high and a 24.6% increase from fall 2020, according to preliminary data released by the UC Office of the President. The nine undergraduate UC schools altogether received nearly 250,000 applications for fall 2021, a 16.1% increase from fall 2020, according to the data.

First-year and transfer applications increased by 18.4% and 7.2% respectively, while out-of-state and international student applications increased by 44.2% and 10% respectively, according to the data. At UCLA, the percentage of Chicano/Latino applications increased by 33%, while African American applications increased by 48%, according to data from UCLA Newsroom.“

[stripe]

13 hours ago, SDMomof3 said:

It’s very common in my area for parents go choose a lower preforming high school, to ensure their kids will graduate with a higher ranking. My neighbor’s dd got into UCB and UCLA with this strategy. 

Wow! That’s pretty extreme. Of course that only works for so long, but maybe it will be good in the long run for (formerly)lower performing schools to have top students there. Also might remove the stigma of going to particular high schools. 

[Roadrunner]

1 hour ago, stripe said:

Wow! That’s pretty extreme. Of course that only works for so long, but maybe it will be good in the long run for (formerly)lower performing schools to have top students there. Also might remove the stigma of going to particular high schools. 

Yes, a funny way to economically (and probably racially) desegregate.  It could be good if it brings more resources to schools, but bad if it takes away seats from disadvantaged kids. 
I think Texas has been doing this for longer. Curious to see what if any changes it has brought to schools. 

[GoodGrief3]

I want to add too that AP courses are not necessarily horrific time sucks. You do want to choose the instructor/course thoughtfully, of course, and plan on some test prep. Busywork will vary according to instructor. I generally prefer an AP to the hassles of dual enrollment, which many seem to view as a gentler option. Many factors to consider. 

[fourisenough]

My DD has 3 APs this year. She loves all three of them and finds them to be both rich/interesting and generally lighter/easier than her non-AP’s. So, I’m another voice saying APs aren’t uniformly time-sucking wastelands. But, to be fair, I was never a homeschool mom who relished the idea of teaching home-brewed courses in every subject throughout high school; if I were, obviously the idea of DD taking 7 APs throughout high school would be less appealing on its face.

Her APs this year include: Psych (PAH, Gonzalez), Stats (WHA, Reini), and Lit (PAH, Serbicki). Her non-AP’s include: Latin 3 (CLRC, Van Fossen), Honors Bio (Blue Tent, Paine), Honors Pre-Calc (Blue Tent, Porter). She had a couple weeks this winter where three of her classes were studying essentially the same concepts (psych, stats, & pre-Calc). It was the kind of meaningful synergy you always hope happens across your curriculum, but rarely does. She will definitely remember those concepts well beyond the exams in May!

I do feel for you Californians; I’d be furious if my DD’s ACT score were summarily dismissed. Michigan will probably follow suit at some point, but hopefully not before next year! My last DD is not likely to be a great test taker, so it won’t be a huge loss for her purposes! 😅

[Sebastian (a lady)]

23 hours ago, Momto6inIN said:

I'm sorry, that sounds awful. I can't imagine the stress that would put on you as a homeschool mom to have those as your only options. The bolded part is the part I'm asking about - they no longer accept SAT/ACT scores at all as proof of college readiness? Or is it just the subject tests they got rid of?

The College Board eliminated the SAT Subject Tests. They are no longer available (outside the US, they kept two remaining dates, then they are eliminated).

The University of California will not use the SAT or ACT for admissions decisions. 

[SeaConquest]

I want to second Farrar's recommendation to join California Homeschool College Seekers. Laura is a high school counselor at iLead in Orange County, so she is well versed in the requirements for charter homeschoolers and Rebecca is a former PSA homeschooler turned college consultant. Both are very experienced homeschoolers, who have coached numerous kids through the college admissions process and are very up to date on what is going on in California for homeschoolers. They have experience with PG kids, kids with learning disabilities, kids with unusual talents, kids that struggle, you name it. They are also advocates for homeschoolers in our state, educating admissions reps about how we homeschool in California and the many unique qualities that homeschoolers bring to campus as students. The Facebook group is an invaluable service for CA homeschoolers IMO, as the homeschooling landscape in our state has changed quite a bit in the past few years with respect to charters, as well as the UCs. I love homeschooling here, but it is a pretty unique system in a lot of ways.

 

Edited April 1, 2021 by SeaConquest

[Sebastian (a lady)]

15 hours ago, SeaConquest said:

I want to second Farrar's recommendation to join California Homeschool College Seekers. Laura is a high school counselor at iLead in Orange County, so she is well versed in the requirements for charter homeschoolers and Rebecca is a former PSA homeschooler turned college consultant. Both are very experienced homeschoolers, who have coached numerous kids through the college admissions process and are very up to date on what is going on in California for homeschoolers. They have experience with PG kids, kids with learning disabilities, kids with unusual talents, kids that struggle, you name it. They are also advocates for homeschoolers in our state, educating admissions reps about how we homeschool in California and the many unique qualities that homeschoolers bring to campus as students. The Facebook group is an invaluable service for CA homeschoolers IMO, as the homeschooling landscape in our state has changed quite a bit in the past few years with respect to charters, as well as the UCs. I love homeschooling here, but it is a pretty unique system in a lot of ways.

 

Agree that Becca and Laura are amazing. 

[Roadrunner]

The problem in CA is that homeschool community is dominated by charter kids. While in K-8, homeschooling with or without a charter is a fairly similar experience, for high school charters are very much public schools if you opt in for A through G.  Those kids have high level of supervision, get a public school diploma (just as respected and therefore with the same privileges as any other public school diploma), and have all their coursework certified by public universities (those opting for A through G). The tragedy is in CA those people are speaking for homeschool PSA kids, who really have no such legal cover and face a different set of circumstances when approaching public universities. So in my sadness I now recommend people who really want to enter public universities in CA to consider a homeschool charter with their public school diploma. If testing was an option (SAT along with subject tests) I would have not made that recommendation. 

[SeaConquest]

41 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

The problem in CA is that homeschool community is dominated by charter kids. While in K-8, homeschooling with or without a charter is a fairly similar experience, for high school charters are very much public schools if you opt in for A through G.  Those kids have high level of supervision, get a public school diploma (just as respected and therefore with the same privileges as any other public school diploma), and have all their coursework certified by public universities (those opting for A through G). The tragedy is in CA those people are speaking for homeschool PSA kids, who really have no such legal cover and face a different set of circumstances when approaching public universities. So in my sadness I now recommend people who really want to enter public universities in CA to consider a homeschool charter with their public school diploma. If testing was an option (SAT along with subject tests) I would have not made that recommendation. 

Without SAT/ACT scores, and now with SAT II scores gone, which were an easy way to validate a PSA transcript for A-G, that really now only leaves you with APs (which are dang near impossible to find test centers for, especially if your kid needs accommodations) or DE. Admission by Exception is risky business for PSA homeschoolers because the media has been running a bunch of stories, in the wake of the Varsity Blues scandal, making it sound like the UCs use Admission by Exception as some sort of shady side door entry. As a result, PSA homeschoolers have sadly seen one of their last means of entry into the UCs get unnecessarily caught up in scandal. So yeah, it really truly is risky at this point to rely on homebrewed classes for entry to UCs. Not that it can't be done, especially if you have some special talent, but when you are talking about 100k+ kids applying to UCLA, it's really not something that I would advise anyone to do either.

Charters are very easy to homeschool through for K-8. Truly, it is not an onerous process at all unless you are a religious homeschooler that wants to incorporate religion into every aspect of your schooling. We have total flexibility to pick the [secular] curriculum we want to use at our charter and study whatever we want within the general buckets of math, science, language arts, social studies, PE, etc. Not all charters are as flexible as ours, so you need to shop around. But, high school is a different animal because of the a-g requirements, so we were assuming that we would likely have to PSA by that point. But now the landscape has changed and we find ourselves 1) lobbying our present charter to make some changes at the high school level to be more accommodating, 2) entering the lottery at a more flexible charter that could work for high school, and 3) considering a private high school full-time, if the financial aid comes through -- all because we have no idea what is going to happen and we need to keep our options open for our state flagship universities.     

Edited April 1, 2021 by SeaConquest

[rzberrymom]

29 minutes ago, SeaConquest said:

But now the landscape has changed and we find ourselves 1) lobbying our present charter to make some changes at the high school level to be more accommodating, 2) entering the lottery at a more flexible charter that could work for high school

I signed DD up with what I thought was the perfect flexible charter (that would let us keep homeschooling just how we wanted), and they dramatically changed the rules literally 2 weeks before the start of school. Maybe because of pressure from the state? Maybe because of COVID? And with COVID flooding the charters with new students, there was no way to find her another spot. I wish I’d had a back-up plan. We’ve done our best, but no one is very happy about it.

Edited April 1, 2021 by rzberrymom

[stripe]

Yes, I took some very good AP classes in high school! They can be great. For me, though, it was a choice between the AP version and the non-AP, and the AP version often had a better teacher and was a more interesting class. Homeschoolers have a different set of options. But I don’t think well chosen APs are a bad idea.

[SeaConquest]

39 minutes ago, rzberrymom said:

I signed DD up with what I thought was the perfect flexible charter (that would let us keep homeschooling just how we wanted), and they dramatically changed the rules literally 2 weeks before the start of school. Maybe because of pressure from the state? Maybe because of COVID? And with COVID flooding the charters with new students, there was no way to find her another spot. I wish I’d had a back-up plan. We’ve done our best, but no one is very happy about it.

Yep. My younger DS' uber flexible charter went whackadoo this year because they were under the gun with state regulators thanks to a bunch of negative media coverage and some poor decision making on their part in the past. We couldn't move him because of all the Covid schoolers flooding the charters at the same time that CA was, in its brilliance, cutting charter funding and redirecting the money back to the brick and mortars that the students were fleeing. Gotta love the department of education. Thankfully, it looks like most of the schools will be back to in-person classes in the fall and our charters will go back to some semblance of normalcy. Although, I am still seeing a lot of interest in homeschooling, if our FB group membership is any indication (I admin a local group and we are still getting a ton of requests every day), and most of the charters in my area are holding lotteries for admission (which they never had to do pre-Covid). Thankfully, I was able to move my younger DS for the fall to my older DS' charter without having to endure the lottery (because of sibling priority). Hallelujah.      

[rzberrymom]

I don’t want to sound like a Debbie downer, but admissions offers at the UCs came out a couple of weeks ago and I haven’t seen any UC acceptances this year either here or at hs2coll.

[Farrar]

On 4/1/2021 at 6:25 PM, rzberrymom said:

I don’t want to sound like a Debbie downer, but admissions offers at the UCs came out a couple of weeks ago and I haven’t seen any UC acceptances this year either here or at hs2coll.

The acceptance rates everywhere make one feel a bit like a Debbie Downer this year, to be honest. But I have seen multiple solid success stories for homeschoolers with the UC's this year, including a couple who did not go full on with DE credits or AP's, but also did a lot of home based coursework alongside some targeted DE work.