OG&E is starting rolling blackouts in Oklahoma *2nd update and Q*

[Excelsior! Academy]

Many people have lost power for an hour or two due to planned blackouts, yet the Thunder Game went on as planned.  Wouldn't that use more electricity than necessary!?

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Update - OG&E has announced that there will not be rolling blackouts.  I'm not sure why the change, but I am glad that we will be able to keep our electricity on for the time being.  We've had faucets dripping and have tried to be smart and as conservative as possible with our electric usage and now we have a burst pipe. 😢  I want summer.  🏖️

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It is 3* right now.  I do not like this, Sam I am.

 

 

Edited February 17, 2021 by Excelsior! Academy
Frustration over the Thunder Game

[Miss Tick]

Why? To much demand?

[Excelsior! Academy]

7 minutes ago, SusanC said:

Why? To much demand?

That is what they are saying.  When we have upwards of 115* days in the summer and are blasting air conditioning, I would think we would use more than right now.  Rumor has it that some of the wind turbines may have frozen over.  

[LinRTX]

And as someone who has been without power for the last 9 hours in Texas, if the rolling blackouts will keep the power mostly on I am all for it. I am so cold. Just now got electricity back( and since we are on a well that means just now got water back also)

[Miss Tick]

6 minutes ago, Excelsior! Academy said:

That is what they are saying.  When we have upwards of 115* days in the summer and are blasting air conditioning, I would think we would use more than right now.  Rumor has it that some of the wind turbines may have frozen over.  

Brrr! When power is threatened in the summer we plan meals and fill the bathtub, but in the winter, what do you?? 🥶

[RegGuheert]

32 minutes ago, Excelsior! Academy said:

That is what they are saying.  When we have upwards of 115* days in the summer and are blasting air conditioning, I would think we would use more than right now.  Rumor has it that some of the wind turbines may have frozen over.  

I posted a link to an outage map in the Texas thread, which looks much worse than Oklahoma, so far.  Of course that is little consolation to those of you who are losing power in the cold.  Here is your map: Oklahoma state power outage map

As far as the amount of power used, heating at 3F is WAY harder than cooling at 115F (at least if both are done using electricity).  It is true even if we assume that every home is heated and cooled by a heat pump.  Why?

First, 115F is 45 degrees away from 70F, while 3F is 67F degrees away from 70F.  In other words, the rate of heat transfer through your walls is about 50% faster than on a 115F day.  On top of that, heat pumps in warm climates are optimized for cooling rather than heating.  Finally, even the best heat pumps DO NOT HEAT effectively below about 15F, so they revert to resistive backup heaters instead.  The result is that at 115F your heat pump (or air conditioner) will be able to keep your house cool with a coefficient of performance of about 2, meaning that it takes about half as much electricity to cool the house as is being transferred through the walls while at 3F, every bit of heat loss has to be provided in the form of electricity.

The bottom line is that a house in your area with a heat pump will be using about 3X as much electricity to heat at 3F as it would use to cool at 115F.

Of course not all houses are heated with heat pumps.  Some will be heated with fossil fuels like natural gas, so the electricity usage will be lower than the 3X I have calculated.

Edited February 15, 2021 by RegGuheert
Fixed my broken link. Sorry.

[Scarlett]

Yes, here too.  It is the entire area.  We lost power for almost an hour.  I was just glad it was planned.  Not much notice but at least knowing what was happening was good.

[Bootsie]

I'm in North Texas.  Our houses are insulated for a 30 degree differential from outside temperatures--and primarily that is measured by ability for heat to escape, not to trap heat in.  So, when temps reach 110 in the summer--the inside temperature that could be maintained is 80, but it doesn't stay at 110 all day.

Now, we are at 5 degrees--which would a 30 degree difference would bring our indoor temps up to 35.   And,, generally our heating systems are not designed for the most efficient heatiing--our central air system that blows warm air to the ceiling doesn't efficiently warm the floors and living space of the house.  And, the temps are remaining below zero several days with no relief--something that we are not used to.  so, the demand is much higher.  

My mom has had 25 minutes electricity on, 25 minutes off this morning.  

We were supposed to teach online synchronously at my university for today--I had a number of students without electricity this morning.  Some, who tried to go sit in their cars on their phones--which I told them NOT to do with a wind chill of -18.  The university just announced to do things asynchronously, if at all possible and move all exams and project due dates because of so many outages and to not further stress the system.

[Scarlett]

It is the Southwest Power Pool.  

[Scarlett]

GRDA Statement on Coordinated Interruption of Service Directive:

The Grand River Dam Authority just received notification that the Southwest Power Pool (SPP), the electric balancing market for a 17-state region, would be ordering members to implement coordinated interruptions to service.

This follows on the heels of SPP’s earlier EEA Level 3 declaration. Alert Level 3 is the highest alert level that SPP uses in a situation of energy shortage.

GRDA anticipates that it will be forced into a load shed scenario at the request of SPP in order to balance generation and load, and maintain system stability, across the region. Not all GRDA customers will be affected at one time, but on a rotational basis this action may negatively impact power delivery to some GRDA customers, resulting in a controlled interruption of service that may persist for an hour or longer.

Further conservation of energy across the SPP footprint is being pursued as a means to reduce the need for further interruptions. The purpose of this plan is to control and manage the situation to ensure the best outcome in not having a more widespread interruption of service.

GRDA System Operations will be in contact with representatives of utility systems served by GRDA in advance of these interruptions.

[MEmama]

34 minutes ago, Dreamergal said:

https://www.usnews.com/news/top-news/articles/2021-02-14/icy-weather-chills-texas-wind-energy-as-deep-freeze-grips-much-of-us

We have less than 2 inches of now. 2 inches.  Let that sink in. But the cold temperatures cripples us. We are superfine and dandy in 100 degree weather. 

Let what sink in?

Many natural gas plants in TX, and I presume OK, aren’t well insulated for extreme winter weather, so if they are just sitting idle the demand will naturally be more than what the electric grid can handle. You are well equipped for your summer heat, while heat waves here in New England extend our regional grid beyond capability. It makes sense that will be issues when the opposite extreme occurs than what your region is prepared for. 
 

I hope you all stay safe! 

[TravelingChris]

One specific reason I will not be changing my gas heater to electric.  

[regentrude]

19 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

One specific reason I will not be changing my gas heater to electric.  

how does your gas heater work?
We have gas, too, but need electricity to run the furnace. So, even with gas, most folks will need a generator.

But I am with you, I'd never want a house that doesn't have two independent sources of heating.

[Scarlett]

Reading the comments on Grand River Dam Authority webside (which is controlled by SPP and then supplies power to us) is enough to make me cringe.  People have no common sense and no tolerance.  They complain about every. single. thing.  that is being done and how it is being done.  

I don't have FB

Why weren't we told earlier

We should have been sent letters in the mail. ( this one---Really?  We are in the middle of an EMERGENCY.  You want to wait on a letter?)

It will take more energy to heat the house back up then it would to just keep it on.  (As if the blackout is only about the power used to heat homes)

Sigh.  

If you need help, ask.  If you don't understand what is going on, read, ask questions.  But stop moaning and complaining about people trying to do their job.  The power was off for 40 minutes.  One lady complained that she left work to come and retrieve her elderly mother and then just as she got there the power came on.  She complained about that.  Well, even before I was made aware of the rolling black out situation I called my parents and said 'pack a bag and be ready in case it is off for a long time.

My guess is that people are just stressed to the max and they really do not know how to handle the stress or their own emotions.

[TravelingChris]

my gas heater works with electricity but I am not certain we need it for gas fireplaces.

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, Dreamergal said:

I come from a hot country. My idea of snow emergency is having piles of snow where people are snowed in, have to shovel a path to get to the mail box, giant mounds of snow taller than a small child.

We live in a neighborhood which is highly active with people and dogs taking multiple walks during the height of summer which is 100 degrees often. We always carry water. Not a single dog has been walked in my neighborhood or maybe my street because I am sitting near my huge window all morning and noon just taking breaks to check on the baking or eat. Not a single movement, in fact we had no snowfall since yesterday and no tire tracks or footprints, man or beast on the snow. Just beautiful, pristine snow though I imagine backyards are used as I smell BBQ and hear people. 

I thought if we had a snow emergency it will take more than 2 inches of snow. Just boggles my mind we can stay up during hurricanes and shut down during hardly any snow. 

My understanding it is not the snow.  It is the cold. Our temps are extreme right now.  And turbines are freezing up.  It is just a lot for the system to take.

[MEmama]

13 minutes ago, Dreamergal said:

I come from a hot country. My idea of snow emergency is having piles of snow where people are snowed in, have to shovel a path to get to the mail box, giant mounds of snow taller than a small child.

We live in a neighborhood which is highly active with people and dogs taking multiple walks during the height of summer which is 100 degrees often. We always carry water. Not a single dog has been walked in my neighborhood or maybe my street because I am sitting near my huge window all morning and noon just taking breaks to check on the baking or eat. Not a single movement, in fact we had no snowfall since yesterday and no tire tracks or footprints, man or beast on the snow. Just beautiful, pristine snow though I imagine backyards are used as I smell BBQ and hear people. 

I thought if we had a snow emergency it will take more than 2 inches of snow. Just boggles my mind we can stay up during hurricanes and shut down during hardly any snow. 

It sounds like it’s the cold, not snow. I mean, where I live we basically shut down when it gets hot, so I understand what you are saying. Our neighborhood hums all winter no matter the weather—people cycle and jog with baby strollers in heavy snowfalls—but if it’s 85 it’s dead silent. It’s all about what we are used to. 🙂 

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, Dreamergal said:

We have cold temps often. I have seen it go to -2 even this year but without the snow. No issues then.

The issues arrive when it is a widespread area.  Like right now.

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, Dreamergal said:

Where is the whiny emoji ?? 

I cannot bake for 5 days at a stretch to "heat" the house 😩. I may bring down the grid single handed. 

Your outage is for 5 days at a time?

[RegGuheert]

PSA: Baking or cooking to heat the house is fine if you have an ELECTRIC oven and/or an ELECTRIC cooktop.  However, DO NOT try to keep your house warm by baking or cooking with a gas (propane or natural gas) oven or cooktop.  Here are a couple of links regarding why you should not do this:

Three reasons you should never use a natural gas oven to heat your home

Quora: Is it O.K. to use a gas oven to heat my house?

In fact our propane oven has a safety feature which prevents the gas from flowing when there is no electricity.  That said, some older models do not have this feature.  However, we could use a match to light up the burners on the cooktop if we were so inclined.

If you need to heat your home, please use *something* that is designed for that purpose.

[RegGuheert]

Dreamergirl: Does your emoticon on my last post mean you have a gas oven?

[Guest]

Thank you for that very informative post, @RegGuheert. Also, Hi! 👋🏼

[Katy]

Sheesh, hope the home insurance covers broken pipes when people’s power goes out & their pumps stop working. Hard to drip uninsulated pipes without power. 

[Excelsior! Academy]

Now they are saying that there won't be power outages 🤷‍♀️

[mmasc]

1 hour ago, MEmama said:

It sounds like it’s the cold, not snow. I mean, where I live we basically shut down when it gets hot, so I understand what you are saying. Our neighborhood hums all winter no matter the weather—people cycle and jog with baby strollers in heavy snowfalls—but if it’s 85 it’s dead silent. It’s all about what we are used to. 🙂 

Yes, exactly. I personally know a couple of people (in the north) who always make fun of some places I’ve lived (in the south) for shutting down when there’s a couple of inches of snow— like it’s hysterical and everyone down there are idiots, but when the towns don’t own snow shovels and are completely unprepared to salt and shovel, do they WANT people out driving?! Goodness, I hope not! So yes, shut down please. 
 

(I know this is off topic but I really appreciate hearing this perspective for a refreshing change @MEmama😊)

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, Katy said:

Sheesh, hope the home insurance covers broken pipes when people’s power goes out & their pumps stop working. Hard to drip uninsulated pipes without power. 

People’s pipes aren’t going to freeze and burst from a 40 min outage. 

57 minutes ago, Excelsior! Academy said:

Now they are saying that there won't be power outages 🤷‍♀️

We only had 1 40 min outage today and they are saying we won’t have another until tomorrow morning.  And they are asking us to conserve. 

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, RegGuheert said:

Dreamergirl: Does your emoticon on my last post mean you have a gas oven?

Maybe I misunderstood but I thought @Dreamergalwas saying she was just doing a lot of baking because it does help warm up a house some.  Not that she had the oven door open trying toheat the house.  

[BusyMom5]

Our electric Co-op is part of this grid, too.  They had planned rolling blackouts today, but changed their mind- I'm not sure if its a coincidence,  but a few sections had failures they are fixing,  so some had a real power outage.  The message also said its off for the morning, keep conserving power, it may have to start this afternoon.  Our temp this morning was -6.  I'm not sure if I've ever scene temps this cold!  If its a rolling blackouts for an hour, it shouldn't be a big deal.  If we get a real power outage, we have a generator ready!  We once had a 7 day power outage in a winter storm, so we always prepare!  

 

[Excelsior! Academy]

Bump for update 2

[RegGuheert]

I'm very sorry to hear about your burst pipe!  Where is the pipe that burst?  Do you have a valve that will allow you to isolate that pipe while not turning off water to your entire house?

[Scarlett]

Oh man so sorry about the pipe burst.  😱

Our central heat is not working right.  I think it is just too cold.  It is not very old and a high dollar unit I think....but it seems to have trouble starting up.  We are going to call for service but we have wood heat too so we are going to wait until this mess is over.  

[elegantlion]

Our area has been under rolling blackouts too. Our power was out for an hour and 20 minutes yesterday. They may happen again today. 

I'm leading a Zoom class this morning and I hope I don't lose power during that. My students are mostly in a different city, so they probably wouldn't be affected at the same time. I got up early to download Zoom to my phone, in case I have to hop over and use that, assuming I can get a data signal. 

[Excelsior! Academy]

36 minutes ago, RegGuheert said:

I'm very sorry to hear about your burst pipe!  Where is the pipe that burst?  Do you have a valve that will allow you to isolate that pipe while not turning off water to your entire house?

Dh was able to isolate the pipes that led to our children's bathroom  and repair them by cutting into the ceiling in our breakfast area.  We ended up having two separate pipes with three separate places that needed repaired. He did need to shut off the water, but just for a short amount of time.

29 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Oh man so sorry about the pipe burst.  😱

Our central heat is not working right.  I think it is just too cold.  It is not very old and a high dollar unit I think....but it seems to have trouble starting up.  We are going to call for service but we have wood heat too so we are going to wait until this mess is over.  

Thank you.  It could've been worse.  Dh is handy and likely saved us $$ by his know how.  Now we have a few lovely cut out places in our ceiling that will need patched and repaired, but the warm air from the heater combined with the open areas will hopefully keep any further pipes from bursting.

I agree.  Our homes aren't built for this kind of weather.  I hope your unit lasts.  I am so glad to hear you have wood heat, too!

[RegGuheert]

6 minutes ago, Excelsior! Academy said:

Dh is handy and likely saved us $$ by his know how.

Not only did he save you money, but think about how hard it will be to get a plumber in Texas starting now!

[Scarlett]

59 minutes ago, Excelsior! Academy said:

Dh was able to isolate the pipes that led to our children's bathroom  and repair them by cutting into the ceiling in our breakfast area.  We ended up having two separate pipes with three separate places that needed repaired. He did need to shut off the water, but just for a short amount of time.

Thank you.  It could've been worse.  Dh is handy and likely saved us $$ by his know how.  Now we have a few lovely cut out places in our ceiling that will need patched and repaired, but the warm air from the heater combined with the open areas will hopefully keep any further pipes from bursting.

I agree.  Our homes aren't built for this kind of weather.  I hope your unit lasts.  I am so glad to hear you have wood heat, too!

Oh that is great!  My dh is likewise handy.  He figured out the central heat this morning.  The condensation line was frozen up.  So he cut it and it is temporarily draining into a bucket.  Whew!

[RegGuheert]

You two ladies can tell your husbands that some random dude on the internet told you that you owe them a kiss! 😀

[Scarlett]

42 minutes ago, RegGuheert said:

You two ladies can tell your husbands that some random dude on the internet told you that you owe them a kiss! 😀

I will tell him!  😉

 

[Bootsie]

DH just talked to his uncle in the Tulsa area.  His uncle's friends (who are in their 90s) said their heater could not keep up (although they maintained power) and that it was in the low 50's in their home so they went to a hotel.